From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #207 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, September 25 1999 Volume 01 : Number 207 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Harry's House ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: HELLO JMDLs ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Harry's House [LLDeMerle ] Re: Joni's father, II [MGVal@aol.com] Ethiopia [MGVal@aol.com] Re: HELLO JMDLs [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Ethiopia [LLDeMerle ] Re: Joni Sleeves [catman ] Re: Ethiopia [catman ] re : That picture on 'For the Roses' ["Ben Mulvey" ] Re: Joni Sleeves [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Joni Sleeves [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Harry's House/Centerpiece [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Harry's House & HOSL [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Joni's father, II [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: James Taylor song & Joni? [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: James Taylor song & Joni? [TerryM2442@aol.com] Death of a Thread [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: Death of a Thread ["Mark or Travis" ] Re JT's New Tune [pmeyer ] Re: Re JT's New Tune ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:29:35 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Harry's House >Any advice with Maine Coon Cats? One has come to live with us >and...although a very sensitive spirit, she can be very fussy and >belligerent. Hmm - have you tried pulling her tail? Whoops, that wouldn't work. (Just kidding - I do NOT pull cats' tails, even those Maine coons!) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:32:37 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: HELLO JMDLs >I am ashamed for overlooking another resource in my early surfing >trips. >One site that truly blew me away was the OLGA (on line guitar > >archive)which introduced me to the amazingly talented Howard Wright >and >his meticulous Joni guitar tabs. My first Joni song in >alternate tunings >was Howard's version of People's Parties. When I >strummed the first chord >I felt like a fairy godmother had tapped me >with her wand and instantly >made me a good guitar player -- IT >SOUNDED SO AWESOME! The rest was >history (or have I said that too >many times today!) Also, I then >discovered on Wally's site Jim >Leahy's list of tunings which was like >finding a treasure map. >THANK YOU HOWARD AND JIM!!! To which I can only add, ditto, and AMEN! cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:53:09 -0400 From: LLDeMerle Subject: Re: Harry's House Heh. I dun't think she would 'preciate that. Her feelins' would git hurt. :( L At 08:29 PM 9/24/99 +0000, Catherine McKay wrote: >>Any advice with Maine Coon Cats? One has come to live with us >>and...although a very sensitive spirit, she can be very fussy and >>belligerent. > >Hmm - have you tried pulling her tail? Whoops, that wouldn't work. (Just >kidding - I do NOT pull cats' tails, even those Maine coons!) > > > >cateri@hotmail.com > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com LL ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v http://www.angelfire.com/ny/DeMerle/index.html de_merle@iagora.com "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." ~Albert Einstein ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:33:38 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's father, II In a message dated 9/24/99 9:31:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, PitassiM@WEAC.org writes: << hen, of course, there's the portrait of her father the emerges from "Let the Wind Carry Me," where he seems to appreciate and encourage the songwriter's "wilder" or less conventional side ("he says, 'leave the girl alone, mother / She's looking like a movie queen"). >> Speaking from semi-experience, (meaning that's not quite what my dad said), it could also be a "leave the girl alone," because he just doesn't like the battles and discord, not because he appreciates and encourages the less conventional side. In whatever way you view it, I, too, find it interesting that J's father is not dealt with as much in her lyrics. Side note: It's great to see you actively back on the list, Mary! I've missed you! MG - thankful, thankful, thankful that it is Friday and I'm out of the clutches of Bruno, the auditor...... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:40:39 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Ethiopia First speaks Paul I.: << > Then LL: >>Or maybe I'm overanalyzing and you just think it sucks. >> Which reminds MG: I think that Sandra Bernhard used the song "Ethiopia" in one of her comic routines. Something along the lines of "Joni Mitchell has never left Malibu and yet....." MG - also not a big DED fan, but likes "Ethiopia," "Impossible Dreamer" and "Lucky Girl" cuts from that album..... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:57:21 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: HELLO JMDLs In a message dated 9/24/99 1:03:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << Count me in as typing in "Joni Mitchell" as my first search term when I hooked up to the Internet. >> Ditto over here! I got my first PC the winter of '94 and "joni mitchell" was the first thing I punched in. I constantly put joni reference items on Prodigy's music discussion boards to no avail and finally stumbled on Wally's site not long after it was put up. I can remember a kind of "guest book," that you could sign or leave comments and I can remember having a couple of e-mails exchanged w/ other Joni fans. There was a break in PC action and then I was back up and was thrilled to find the jmdl in existence! I can no longer imagine my life without it! MG - planning to shut up and take a nap real, real soon..... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:08:43 -0400 From: LLDeMerle Subject: Re: Ethiopia At 06:40 PM 9/24/99 -0400, MGVal@aol.com wrote: >First speaks Paul I.: > ><< melody > as the Ethiopian desert is of water.>> > >Then LL: > > >>Or maybe I'm overanalyzing and you just think it sucks. >> Um. As much as I appreciate the recognition, I'm sorry I cannot accept the award since... Idin'tsayit. :S Tx anyway, L LL ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v http://www.angelfire.com/ny/DeMerle/index.html de_merle@iagora.com "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." ~Albert Einstein ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 00:09:50 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves As I have said many times, I love DED. I also like Ethiopia. However, it doesn't seem to fit on this album-it seems to be the odd one out to me. As for Mingus-well i own it just to make my collection complete. i have listened many times, trying to l.ike it, but to no avail. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 00:16:51 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Ethiopia > > > I think that Sandra Bernhard used the song "Ethiopia" in one of her comic > routines. Something along the lines of "Joni Mitchell has never left Malibu > and yet....." I saw Ms Bernhard here on a program where people get to choose their favourites songs/videos. She chose FOUR Mitchells and basically said as far as she was concerned Mitchell was GOD and no one but no one could hold a candle to her talent. I think this means she likes her. > > > MG - also not a big DED fan, but likes "Ethiopia," "Impossible Dreamer" and > "Lucky Girl" cuts from that album..... - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:43:26 PDT From: "Ben Mulvey" Subject: re : That picture on 'For the Roses' Scott wrote "The following quote is from an interview Joni gave for Rolling Stone magazine, July 26, 1979, regarding the nude photograph from FTR... - ------------------------------------------------------------------ "I remember my mother putting on glasses to scrutinize it more closely. Then my father said, "Myrtle, people do things like this these days." Which was a great attitude." OK, I've gotten over my shock now ;-) Interesting , I came out on Myrtle's side! Well I hate blue eye shadow too.... but more on taste grounds than morality. I've been listening to FTR quite a bit over the last few days and its strange that although i've had the CD for well over a year - I've never really got into it before - now it seems perfect. I've noticed this before - I need to grow into some Joni albums and it takes a while before they work their magic on me. Though having said that when I got WTRF my initial reaction was real disappointment, sort of along the lines of - 'how could this be Joni....' I'll have to revisit, maybe it just needs the time to be right as it is for FTR now Ben ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:59:46 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves In a message dated 9/24/1999 12:46:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Louis.Lynch@wonderware.com writes: << "Ethiopia" made me break down and weep the first time I heard it. And the second, and quite a few thereafter. Every time I hear it (hundreds), I still get goosebumps. It's one of the most emotional songs I know of. >> Yep I agree! You really have to just sit down and really listen to that song. It truely is a masterpeice! I was massaging one of my client firends ( her name is Toni and yes I am a professional massage Thearpist for over 10 years and I played the demos for her along with some bonus tracks. While I was listening to Sweet Bird I got goosebumps all over. I just love the lines..All these vain promises on beauty jars...somewhere with your wings on time you must be laughing.. I love Joni Mitchell music! Duh...don't we all! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:02:29 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves Paul I writes: << Ethiopia, to my ear, is about as bereft of human emotion and memorable melody as the Ethiopian desert is of water. Each time I listen to DED, I enjoy it less and less. Paul I >> Well Paul, if you want to get rid of your DED cd, I'll gladly trade you for my P.J. Harvey cd since there still hasn't been any takers :) Just kidding, even though DED is your least favorite Joni CD, I know you still need it for your JM collection. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:09:30 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Harry's House/Centerpiece In a message dated 9/24/1999 1:04:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << Evian, you say that (to you) "Both Harry and the Wife are unsympathetic, and the "When will you be home, Harry?" seems to me to be the stereotype of the nagging wife yelling at the "Trapped" husband. However, ole hubby is no saint, it works both ways." >> nope have to disagree with you there. I personally think that the wife IS the villian here. The last line states.....shining hair an shining skin, shining as she REELS him in....to tell him like she did today just what she could do with Harry's house and Harry's take home pay. This pretty much tell me that she is just there to spend his money and that alot of people of suburbia are all just plastic and fake. That is why I love this lp so much. Being a concept lp dealing with different people who live in suburbia on the fringe of a city is such a great idea. I have lived in the suburbs all my life and see alot of these women who meet with each other to talk about there window treatments and the wallpaper. They stay at home with hubby's money and spend it on their hearts desire. I am not saying this is wrong just an observation however, I think she is trying to give us all an inside look about the way people really are. That is what I love so much about Joni is that she lays her cards on the table!! Catgirl desperately trying to make sense! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:18:59 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Harry's House & HOSL In a message dated 9/24/1999 1:47:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << On the subject of Joni's singing of "Centrepiece", Mark said: "That's a neat take on it, I never heard the sarcasm in Joni's vocalization, just the "prettiness" of it," and Paul replied: "I don't think "Centerpiece" is sarcastic so much as a flashback to a happier time for the woman, who had high expectations for her love and life that have not come to pass." >> interesting! I thought that it was HIS flashback since she says...He drifts off into the memory of the way she looked in shcoll with her body oiled and shining at the public swimming pool..then it goes into the dream sequence. BUT is she just leading him on??? (The more I'm with you pretty baby the more I feel my love increase, I'm building all my dreams around you, our happiness will never cease) Then it has her screaming at the kids and complaining about the sofa and how nothing is any good. So much for the happiness never ceasing! Catgimrl realizing that this is truly another Joni MASTERPEICE!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:49:33 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's father, II Mary, Thanks for the info on Bill! Terry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:50:57 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: James Taylor song & Joni? In a message dated 9/23/1999 11:58:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CaTGirl627@aol.com writes: << "I see it in the surface of her skin, there's been a baby within; Given away in love. I see it in the little lines around her eyes, across her brow-- She'll be drifting away from me now. " >> Now what song on that LP is this line on?? I pulled out the lp but it keeps skipping and it is driving me NUTS!!! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:07:02 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: James Taylor song & Joni? In a message dated 9/24/1999 10:53:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CaTGirl627@aol.com writes: << Now what song on that LP is this line on?? I pulled out the lp but it keeps skipping and it is driving me NUTS!!! >> Is it titled New Tune? I forgot! Terry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:26:45 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Death of a Thread From Les's intro letter we all receive when joining the JMDL: <<"Jimdle" - a member of the unmoderated discussion of anything and everything related to the life, art, music, and times of Joni Mitchell. You are one of approximately 600 individuals subscribed to the list. We are generally a mature, thoughtful bunch who are mostly supportive of Joni and her work. However, that does not mean we are a bunch of starry-eyed fanatics either. We tend to be appreciative yet curious - critical yet fair - but always tempered with a deep respect for arguably the greatest songwriter on the planet.>> From what I've read, the "Little Green" thread easily stayed within all the above criteria. And refreshingly remained respectful in responding to the opinions of the other participants, as well. LL DeMerle wrote in the post titled "Drawing The Line": <> I agree with this statement. It's the choice of the writer to what he/she decides is proper to convey based on the readership of the list. (For evaluation of intended readership, see Les's intro above.) The choice to read or delete a thread or post author is always available to the reader to choose. Gina wrote in her post titled Little Green, Blue and possibly Red: <> Let me ask a few questions. 1 Does Joni know of the JMDL (yes) 2 Is Joni permitted to join the JMDL and post to the list? (yes) 3 Has Joni written about her daughter, her relationship with her mother and her father in her art? (yes) 4 Has Joni given interviews discussing the birth and subsequent relinquishment of her child? (yes) 5 Does it say something in itself that she has yet to complain about our discussions' contents to us on-list?.... 5A. or the post author privately? 6 Has Joni shown she has a difficult time confronting those she feels are being disrespectful to her? (Doesn't appear to be the case throughout her career, early, mid or currently. Isle of Wight, Amnesty International, 1998 Indiana concerts are all public examples.) 7 How do you suppose Joni feels about having suggestions placed on her about what she should or should not write, discuss or read? I know I'm no rocket scientist, having only a year or so more formal education than Joni herself, but maybe I'm missing the point in why some chose to take issue with the Little Green thread, effectively ending that discussion. I don't know if others that participated in the thread suddenly felt they were being deemed a sleazy voyeur, insensitive or disrespectful towards Joni, but that was the implication I felt took place. I've waited a few days before responding so I wasn't thought to be writing out of emotion, but what it was like was to be at a party and some in a discussion announced they had become uncomfortable with the content and the rest of us were suggested it would be proper to "shut up out of respect". (I suggest some of the other threads and outbursts be remembered that have taken place on this discussion list, that bears Joni's name, without a flinch on-list.) This post is titled, "Death of a Thread." Could a sequel at a later date be titled "Death of a Loved Discussion List" if a reminder to use the delete key is not heeded when a minority is uncomfortable with an active thread's discussion content. Respectfully, Penny ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:25:03 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Death of a Thread I've waited a few days before responding so I wasn't thought to > be writing out of emotion, but what it was like was to be at a party and > some in a discussion announced they had become uncomfortable with the > content and the rest of us were suggested it would be proper to "shut up > out of respect". I didn't participate in this thread but I did read all of the very thoughtful and intelligent posts and I didn't get the feeling that anybody was trying to stop it. Some people did make their feelings of discomfort with the subject known but I honestly didn't think they were trying to censor anybody. All the posts I read seemed to be very respectful of the high level that was maintained during the whole discussion. People expressed opinions but I don't think they were meant to tell anybody what they should and shouldn't post. I thought they were just expressing what was right or wrong for them. It took the discussion in a different direction about celebrity and privacy and I found that just as interesting as the original subject. (This post is titled, "Death of a > Thread." Could a sequel at a later date be titled "Death of a Loved > Discussion List" if a reminder to use the delete key is not heeded when > a minority is uncomfortable with an active thread's discussion content. I don't think the situation is as dire as all that. Certainly we've come a lot closer to meltdown than this and we've survived. Was there a specific comment or post that caused you to feel this way, Penny? I'm not trying to discredit you or flame you. I just don't understand where this is coming from. With all due respect, Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:47:49 -0700 From: pmeyer Subject: Re JT's New Tune CaTGirl627@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/23/1999 11:58:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > CaTGirl627@aol.com writes: > > << > "I see it in the surface of her skin, there's been a baby within; > Given away in love. > I see it in the little lines around her eyes, across her brow-- > She'll be drifting away from me now. " >> > Now what song on that LP is this line on?? I pulled out the lp but it keeps > skipping and it is driving me NUTS!!! > Catgirl On One Man Dog, "New Tune." (It's always been one of my favorite non-Joni songs.) There's a short audio blurb of it on CD now, but it has only a small part of the lyric in question. Paul M ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:38:02 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Re JT's New Tune Paul wrote: > > Now what song on that LP is this line on?? I pulled out the lp but it keeps > > skipping and it is driving me NUTS!!! > > Catgirl > > On One Man Dog, "New Tune." > (It's always been one of my favorite non-Joni songs.) D*@%, I had One Man Dog on an 8-track that is long ago and faraway melted and disintegrated ;-( > There's a short audio blurb of it on CD now, but it has only a small > part of the lyric in question. Nooooo, stop me before I charge some more ;-) Kakki, going to look for the local 12 step Music Buyers Anonymous chapter NP: Little Green - WallyK and Marian ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #207 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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