From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #202 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, September 22 1999 Volume 01 : Number 202 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni tongue-twister birthday wish [M.Russell@iaea.org] Little Green ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Re: Little Green [Deb Messling ] Album Covers ["Jamie Zubairi" ] memoirs ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Joni in the tabloids ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Joni in the tabloids ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Re: Little Green (JM interview excerpt from R/S) [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Little green blue and possibly red [Ginamu@aol.com] References to Myrtle ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: Little green blue and possibly red [Ginamu@aol.com] RE: Here we go again..... [Martin Giles ] Re: References to Myrtle [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Graham Nash Breaks Both Legs [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Joni Sleeves [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] RE: Joni Sleeves [Anne Sandstrom ] Re: Album Covers [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: References to Myrtle [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] memoirs [Jerry Notaro ] Re: *Memoirs* by JM [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: Joni Sleeves ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Here we go again..... ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... ["Catherine McKay" ] RE ["David Greenspoon" ] RE: Joni Sleeves ["David Greenspoon" ] Re: Album Covers ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Joni Sleeves [Don Rowe ] Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... [catman ] Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... [catman ] Re: Joni Sleeves [dsk ] Re: Joni Sleeves [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Joni Sleeves [dsk ] Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Joni Sleeves [dsk ] Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... [catman ] New Tom Rush Comp (vljc) [Jenaya Dawe ] RE: Joni Sleeves [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Joni Sleeves [dsk ] Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Joni Sleeves [dsk ] DED Interview [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Joni Sleeves [dsk ] Re: Joni Sleeves - Mingus Affection ["Kakki" ] Re: Here we go again..... [Ashara@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:54:15 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Joni tongue-twister birthday wish Betcha can't say "blackboard blind" ten times in a row! (Singing it is also a challenge!) My Joni birthday wish is that all JMDLers give Ray's Dad's Cadillac another chance. Marian Vienna NP: Ray's Dad's Cadillac - Joni's most under-appreciated song! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:03:32 GMT From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Little Green Just to put my cat among the pigeons on this point: Re reading the 1979 Rolling Stone interview on her maternity Joni was asked by Cameron Crowe You hold Giorgia OKeefe as an ideal. Yet there she is in her nineies, living in the middle of the desert with only her art. She has no children. It seems like it could be a lonely life... (and the reply was) That's the part about it. I don't know, really, what your choices are. Obviously there's a constant battle with me. Is my maternity to amount to a lot of black plactic? Am I going to anually bear this litter of songs and send them out in the marketplace and have them crucified for this reason or that... CC: Or praised. JM: Or praised. Let's not get lopsided about that. I certainly get my fair share of appreciation. You know in a few years, I'll be past a safe childbearing age. I don't see many women raising children successfully alone, and as yet I haven't been able to bond with a man who I could see myself with in constant company for the next twenty years that're necessary to do a good job of that. I would take the job seriously. I wouldn't just frivolously get pregnant and bring a child into this world, especially a world that has such a difficult future as the one we're facing. Also, the children of celebrities have been notoriously troubled. But when it comes to the business of raising children, I *finally* feel emotionally stable enough to deal with it. It's taken me this long, but it maybe something that's denied me. It may be one of my little regrets in my old age. I still leave the uture open, and given the right relationship, even if it had the a potential longevity of, say, *six* years, I might do it. (end of segment) I have tried to take that question in as much context as poss. I'm sure that knowing what we know now it must be a way of putting people off the scent of things like Little Green and Morning Morgantown. It must've been painful for her to say such things for the sake of protecting the people she loves. But it kinda sidesteps the whole point of Little G. Just a note. Self Indulgence To Self Denial Man To Woman Scales To Feathers You And I Eagles In The Sky You And I Jamie Zubairi - - ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 06:30:32 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Little Green Thanks for posting the RS excerpt, Jamie. I've thought about that conversation, too. I\it sounds to me as if you feel Joni was being dishonest in the interview. I would say evasive, maybe, but in talking about having children, I think she was clearly talking about *raising* a child, which she (of course) never did. And in saying that she would never frivolously get pregnant, I imagine she was thinking about women who suddenly decide Gee! I want a baby! without thinking about the responsibility. Although as an aside, I'm not sure how many women really think like that. At 10:03 AM 9/22/99 GMT, you wrote: >I have tried to take that question in as much context as poss. I'm sure that >knowing what we know now it must be a way of putting people off the scent of >things like Little Green and Morning Morgantown. > >It must've been painful for her to say such things for the sake of >protecting the people she loves. But it kinda sidesteps the whole point of >Little G. Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:32:49 GMT From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Album Covers Just to defend DED. The version that we've got is actually the version the record co wanted her to put out. Originally it was an amazing painting, mainly in blues and really rich colours of hundreds of dogs. those of us on the list lucky enough to live in the UK have seen the BBC special on her and her paintings made at the time of DED where she showed her paintings. Geffen said that 'It's been a while since they saw your mug' on an album. I guess they wanted a photo, 'cuz I thought WTRF was just as good as a photo. What we're left with is a cover that really reflects the songs inside. We know that we're not in for an easy ride. My personal faves are: TI HOSL Mingus Blue TTT Hejira I guess I prefer the painted ones to the photo'd ones, coming from a painterly background myself.... much Joni Jamie Zubairi ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:36:51 GMT From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: memoirs This has bugged me for some months now. I was told that Memoir was coming out in June, then August, then September now December, along with a spoken word version. What is going on?!?!?!?! I went to Waterstones and they said that there wasn't a publishing date for it yet. Also another book called Autobiography but i think they were getting things mixed up. Any official word Wally B? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:44:28 GMT From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Joni in the tabloids Someone on the list didn't know about the 'Joni and The Kicking Maid' incident. In the early Eighties, Joni has a Cuban maid (or Colombian or something..) who was asking Joan for money to go back to her homeland to see her aging/ailing mother. Joni loaned her this for a while but then found out that she was actually taking the money and going on holidays to foreign places and having a great time. When Joan confronted her about this things got a little het up (I expect) and Joni kicked her in the shins. The maid then sued, Joni counter sued etc etc etc. The song The Windfall came about because of this. You said Elvis gave them cars You think I'm cheap And you're hard done by Look you live here like a star Rent free suite Big blue pool that you sun by Trips to tropic shore Clothes from fancy stores You want too much You want too badly You want Everything for nothing Hope this clears up anything that people mayn't know. I think Joni won the case or they settled out of court or something. Much more Joni Jamie Zubairi ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:44:24 GMT From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Joni in the tabloids Someone on the list didn't know about the 'Joni and The Kicking Maid' incident. In the early Eighties, Joni has a Cuban maid (or Colombian or something..) who was asking Joan for money to go back to her homeland to see her aging/ailing mother. Joni loaned her this for a while but then found out that she was actually taking the money and going on holidays to foreign places and having a great time. When Joan confronted her about this things got a little het up (I expect) and Joni kicked her in the shins. The maid then sued, Joni counter sued etc etc etc. The song The Windfall came about because of this. You said Elvis gave them cars You think I'm cheap And you're hard done by Look you live here like a star Rent free suite Big blue pool that you sun by Trips to tropic shore Clothes from fancy stores You want too much You want too badly You want Everything for nothing Hope this clears up anything that people mayn't know. I think Joni won the case or they settled out of court or something. Much more Joni Jamie Zubairi ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:15:57 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Little Green (JM interview excerpt from R/S) In a message dated 9/22/99 3:06:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jamie_zubairi@hotmail.com writes: << I have tried to take that question in as much context as poss. I'm sure that knowing what we know now it must be a way of putting people off the scent of things like Little Green and Morning Morgantown. It must've been painful for her to say such things for the sake of protecting the people she loves. But it kinda sidesteps the whole point of Little G. >> I dunno. I have to disagree. I think that it is less throwing people off the scent of things like Little Green and more just a case of MYOB. Remember the lines in "Cherokee Louise?" "going out you get the 3rd degree....?" She gets that from the press, as well. And when she said what she had to say in "Little Green," that is a legitimate "end of the line" for her. No further comment needed. I don't think that she was being dishonest or defeating the purpose of LG. It must be a very difficult juggle between being true to one's self and protecting one's self when you have a career that constantly has people, (ie interviewers, or dare I say, list members!!!), asking "why why why why why why?, (can you explain that again?), why?" I don't envy her one iota. MG np morning coffee - where's the delivery service???? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:50:47 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Little green blue and possibly red In a message dated 9/21/99 11:01:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net writes: << Colin- I think this is a very intelligent post. I don't really care what it was that she meant by her songs, although it is fun to daydream about what she might have meant, but as for discussing it in this forum, I cannot. I do treasure the way her songs make me feel and how they sometimes change as I get older and hopefully wiser. My skin crawls when I think of alot of the discussion being our there for her children and grandchildren to read. >> And this post really magnifies my own feelings. I love this discussion group and my understanding of the *art* has been enhanced greatly on songs such as Don't Interrupt The Sorrow (incredible posts focusing on the song as art, not so much on the intensely personal decisions Joni has made in her life) as well as the thread that Bob and Kakki (largely) intelligently participated in a while back. The Little Green thread just struck as somehow different in that the very fine details of a highly personal and painful decision on Joni's part was being discussed and second-guessed to an extent that I found uncomfortable for the reasons Michael mentioned above: do Joni or her daughter read some of these posts. I guess I'm just a very private person myself. I wish everyone had the experience of participating in a discussion list where the artist herself reads every post and occasionally posts herself. I'm on the Undertow, the Suzanne Vega discussion list. It's been an education. People are very free to discuss the art but they had better be prepared to hear from the artist when she is discussed! There is also much off-topic discussion and it gets heated. Suzy herself has done her share of flaming! Though given a choice between the two lists, there is no contest. The JMDL is by far the most intelligent, creative and welcoming discussion group out there! Again, I can only be myself and in doing so I will express my thoughts and feelings as honestly as I can. It is never meant as an indictment of this list, especially after having met some of you. Take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:02:15 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: References to Myrtle Since we've been talking about Joni's relationship with her mother, I thought of a new thread - if anyone wants to play! Songs that have a reference to Joni's mother, father, or both. Here are a few (your starter for ten!): In France They Kiss On Main Street - "amour, Mama, not cheap display" Let The Wind Carry Me - "Mama thinks she spoilt me rotten, she blames herself, but Papa he blesses me" etc. Facelift - "For God's sake, I'm middle-aged, Mama" etc. Any more? Helen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:00:23 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Little green blue and possibly red In a message dated 9/22/99 7:55:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Ginamu@aol.com writes: << as well as the thread that Bob and Kakki (largely) intelligently participated in >> I forgot to mention that the thread was Court And Spark as a song cycle. It was an excellent thread. GIna, in a hurry as usual ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:24:10 +0100 From: Martin Giles Subject: RE: Here we go again..... My Mum (who is a great Joni fan) told me at the weekend that she always imagined Joni and companions at the Chinese Cafe playing Mah Jong... Down at the Chinese Cafe We'd be spittin' on our dice... Martin. > Bob admits: > > However, even with the additional information, my interpretation of Joni's > work doesn't change much, just like when I sing a wrong phrase...even > though I know she's singing "Lead Foot Melvin", I'm gonna sing "Liquid > Melvin" every time! :~) >> > > Oh, no. Not AGAIN!!!! It's NOT "Liquid Melvin????" > > Hugs, > Ashara {who does not DARE to read any Joni lyrics for fear that she has > mondegreened EVERY SINGLE SONG Joni has ever written, or thought of writing!} ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:31:50 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: References to Myrtle In a message dated 9/22/99 5:02:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: << Any more? >> Dreamland: "six foot drifts on Myrtle's lawn...." MG - going to work now, really. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:10:35 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Graham Nash Breaks Both Legs In a message dated 9/21/1999 4:42:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, peter.holmstedt@telia.com writes: << The musician, his wife, Susan, and son Will, 19 >> Not to diminish the sadness of this news, but isn't it interesting that Graham has a son named Will? Wasn't that Joni's nickname for him, or did everyone call him that? Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:34:14 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves Debra said of the DED cover: <> First off, great post, Debra! And don't get me wrong, I wasn't LOL at the cover per se, just the fact that David said it was his *least favorite* cover...I actually like it OK for the reasons you stated. I'm also intrigued by the wolf looking at the car wreck...I think it harkens back to "Coyote" who runs a little roughshod but also ties in with "The Wolf that Lives in Lindsay" and the darkness in men's minds...It's very difficult to drive past a car wreck without being tempted to look, I think the wolf looking at the wreck symbolizes that little dark corner in each of us that looks at the "wreck" with no intent to do anything about it. This also mirrors some of the themes of the songs on DED: Fiction, Three Great Stimulants, Tax Free, Dog Eat Dog, Ethiopia echoes some of that same idea. Bob NP: TMBG, "I'll Sink Manhattan" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:51:13 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: RE: Joni Sleeves <> Wasn't Joni in a car accident about the time she was recording DED? Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:50:36 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Album Covers <> Jamie, I think you're speaking of the "Whistle Test Extra" that shows her creating the painting...if so, this has been given to the video powers-that-be to tree. A lot of us saw it at Jonifest '99. It was courtesy of Philip in Ireland who claims that he got it when he chased some leprechauns to their pot o' gold...:~) Bob NP: TMBG, "Birds Fly" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:56:21 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: References to Myrtle << Songs that have a reference to Joni's mother, father, or both.>> "Mama & Betsy say, 'find yourself a charity'" (Song For Sharon) "With their tassled teams they came to McGee's General Store" (Paprika Plains) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:16:44 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: memoirs This is what I found in Books In Print: Authors, etc.: Mitchell, Joni Title: Memoirs Status: Active record Published: New York : Crown Publishing Group, Incorporated, 1999 Projected publication date: May 1999 Language: English Subjects: SINGERS--BIOGRAPHY ISBN, format, price: 0609600060 Trade Cloth USD 27.50 Retail Publisher record number: 00007172 Copyright: BOOKS IN PRINT (r), (c) R.R. Bowker, Reed Elsevier Inc. Jerry np: Aspects of Webber ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:21:34 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: *Memoirs* by JM In a message dated 9/22/1999 2:57:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, M.Russell@iaea.org writes: << On Sept. 8, I ordered this book from www.barnesandnoble.com They said they would contact me within 1-2 weeks if the title is not available and they still haven't contacted me! I just thought maybe other people might like to try to order it. Memoirs Joni Mitchell Our Price: $27.50 Special Order: Ships 3-5 weeks Format: Hardcover ISBN: 0609600060 Publisher: Crown Publishing Group Pub. Date: May 1999 Please note: This title needs to be ordered directly with the publisher and usually ships within 3-5 weeks. There are occasions where the titles may go out of print or the publishers may no longer carry stock. If we cannot fill your order, we will notify you within 1-2 weeks. >> I also ordered this book and received an E-mail from them stating that the book was not available at this time and they were canceling my order. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:41:04 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves I was just gonna stay right out of this one, but what they hell? >With DED the one cover I really just DONT care for!!! >> > >Dang...poor old DED can't even score point for its cover!! LOL! > People have been ragging on Joni for the bad do and the crappy album cover (not to mention the beastly "Smokin'" song, but I ain't going that way again! :) For its time and for what was going on then, the cover of DED was pretty typical and, amongst the typical, pretty darn good - better than most. There's Joni in a fuzzy photograph, looking like she's stomping up and down having a hissy fit of some kind, looking angery with that bad do (but the bad do fits in with the "angry" theme, doesn't it?) and all that scratchy crayon stuff all around her and the dogs/wolves. Fits in very well with the type of stuff on the album, so of its kind, it's a good cover. So there. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:46:43 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Here we go again..... >>However, even with the additional information, my interpretation >>of >>Joni's work doesn't change much, just like when I sing a wrong >> >>phrase...even though I know she's singing "Lead Foot Melvin", I'm >> >>gonna sing "Liquid Melvin" every time! :~) >> >Oh, no. Not AGAIN!!!! It's NOT "Liquid Melvin????" >Hugs, >Ashara {who does not DARE to read any Joni lyrics for fear that she >has >mondegreened EVERY SINGLE SONG Joni has ever written, or thought of >writing!} I might as well 'fess up now and get it over with. Even if you DO read the lyrics, you don't always hear them the same way. I always thought she was saying she was "hoarse with travel fever" rather than "porous with" - or is it the other way 'round? Whatever, it made sense to me. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:17:31 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... >WHEN THE HOPES GOT SO SLIM, I JUST RESIGNED: Karen Carpenter's >Shrink >Feces Up!!! > Feces, Wally? Honest to God. Some people's minds are just SO in the gutter! :D cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:26:21 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Graham Nash Breaks Both Legs In a message dated 9/22/99 9:13:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, TerryM2442@aol.com writes: << Not to diminish the sadness of this news, but isn't it interesting that Graham has a son named Will? Wasn't that Joni's nickname for him, or did everyone call him that? Terry >> I don't know about everyone, but I have heard the other members of CSN&Y call him "Willy" during concerts. I never thought that it was a name that Joni gave to him, but merely that she used it. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:28:30 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Here we go again..... In a message dated 9/22/99 8:31:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mlg@ukonline.co.uk writes: << My Mum (who is a great Joni fan) told me at the weekend that she always imagined Joni and companions at the Chinese Cafe playing Mah Jong... Down at the Chinese Cafe We'd be spittin' on our dice... Martin. >> Except that the pieces in mah jong are called "tiles," not dice. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:30:54 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: *Memoirs* by JM >Memoirs >Joni Mitchell > >Publisher: Crown Publishing Group >Pub. Date: May 1999 > Is this a new book, or a recent reprint of an old book? I thought this wasn't out yet (?) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:33:46 PDT From: "David Greenspoon" Subject: RE ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:40:37 PDT From: "David Greenspoon" Subject: RE: Joni Sleeves Debra Wrote >Well, that's too sad! That's just not right. :-) So I'll put in my >vote for DED's cover. I've always liked it, but today I looked at >all my Joni CDs, comparing them to her album covers, and DED is the only one >I kept returning to, wanting to see it again. I agree that perhaps my critism of DED may have been influenced by the fact that I have never seen DED on LP while the other older Joni Sleeves I mentioned (TTT excluded), I either have or have seen in the LP format... SO perhaps it is a good Cover I just find it impossible to appreciate its on those tini-weeni-itsy-bitsy CD booklets Yours David ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:44:16 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Album Covers You said: >I guess I prefer the painted ones to the photo'd ones, coming from a >painterly background myself.... > Those are definitely my faves - the painted ones, not the photos. The paintings are good, and it's Joni's hand that did them. I really do like Turbulent Indigo - that's such a good painting and there's so much humour and irony in it. Also, love the pictures in TTT - Joni on the front cover looking like a contented pussycat herself, at peace. STAS is a nice hippie-chick piece done by a young girl/woman with dreams. I remember doing stuff like that in my teens. And my husband still has some old drawings he did years ago with that '60's "peace and love" kind of feel. For my part, I find the cover of "Clouds" kind of scary. There's this rather serene-looking young woman on the cover, but there's a lot of red and angry-looking stuff in the background (maybe that's just my perception of it, maybe it's just because it's dawn or dusk) but I find it rather disturbing to look at. By the time she gets to Ladies of the Canyon, she's into simple line drawings, but the cover on that one is quite clever, I think. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:37:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves I for one, have always loved the LP cover of CMIARS. Wonderful rich color, which stands out wonderfully against the black. And it seems Joni knows something I've known for a while now ... life is too short not to have at least one really cool hat! ;-) Don Rowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:34:23 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... Wally Kairuz wrote: > KING IN A TENEMENT CASTLE: New Elvis sighting on Manhattan's Lower East > Side! > > HE'S GOT A WOMAN AT HOME, HE'S GOT ANOTHER WOMAN DOWN THE HALL: An Intimate > Tour of the Whitehouse! > > SWEET SUCKER DANCE: Monica bares it all!!! > > WHEN THE HOPES GOT SO SLIM, I JUST RESIGNED: Karen Carpenter's Shrink Feces I am sure you meant fesses-this sounds like shit! > Up!!! > > WITH A HOLE IN HER STOCKINGS: Female Member of Weird Joni Mitchell Cult Bled > White by Freak New England Mosquitoes!!! > > WallyK - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:50:10 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... > > > I hope this was a misspelling and you meant "fesses"; otherwise you are REAL > sick and need that shrink yourself. but of course although it sounds the same, it is actually spelt feaces. > > > Paul I - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:06:44 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: > And don't get me wrong, I wasn't LOL at the cover per se, just the fact > that David said it was his *least favorite* cover...I actually like it OK > for the reasons you stated. Oh, yeah, I know you were laughing at the picked-on-ness of DED (it does happen a lot); kind of like DED is the black sheep in the family that everyone's uncomfortable with. But, luckily, within this large group of opinionated people, there's always someone who'll put out a positive Joni vibe, even for the black sheep. > I'm also intrigued by the wolf looking at the > car wreck...I think it harkens back to "Coyote" who runs a little roughshod > but also ties in with "The Wolf that Lives in Lindsay" and the darkness in > men's minds...It's very difficult to drive past a car wreck without being > tempted to look, I think the wolf looking at the wreck symbolizes that > little dark corner in each of us that looks at the "wreck" with no intent > to do anything about it. I hadn't thought about these other wolves/coyotes until you mentioned them. Very interesting; apparently that untamed animal is another one of Joni's symbols, along with cactuses and crows. When looking at the album cover, it struck me that each wolf was another portrait of Joni (and of us all really). Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:08:48 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves Deb said: <> I would say that Mingus is the true BLACK sheep in the family...DED is more like a white techno-sheep with a bad perm! :~D Bob NP: TMBG, "Jessica" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:15:32 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves David Greenspoon wrote: > ...I just find it impossible to appreciate its on > those tini-weeni-itsy-bitsy CD booklets Yeah, DED's artwork doesn't come across well in the CD packaging. Putting all that energy in such a small area just makes it look cramped. Be on the lookout for the album-sized version; you may be surprised when you see it. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:13:24 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... > > I hope this was a misspelling and you meant "fesses"; otherwise > you >are REAL sick and need that shrink yourself. > >but of course although it sounds the same, it is actually spelt feaces. Not to drag this out, but the word we're thinking of can also be spelled "feces" (it may be one of those American English vs England English thingies, where we Canadians get stuck in the middle and will use either/or, sometimes in the same piece of writing, but the trend in North America is to take out the superfluous "a" in words of this kind, e.g. paediatrician vs pediatrician; haemoglobin vs hemoglobin and so on) which I would pronounce "FEE-sees" to rhyme with species, rather than "FESSes" (as in short for confesses) to rhyme with tresses. On the other hand, after my son was born, my next-door neighbour, who was originally from New Zealand and is a nurse, asked me whether his "little um-bi-LIKE-le" had fallen off yet. We tend to pronounce it "um-BILL-acle" so it took me a few seconds to clue in to what she was talking about! (You say tomayto, I say tomahto, and all that jazz.) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:28:55 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: RE: Joni Sleeves Bob said: <> Actually (she says opening herself up to ridicule) I rather like some of DED. I'd be curious to hear 'acoustic' versions of the songs by Joni. And the wolves are ok. It's the pic of Joni that I'm not fond of - for some reason I've always wondered why her arms were in the air - if she wanted to look more like another wolf, her arms should have heen at her side or maybe even her hands could have been clasped behind her. Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:36:14 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: > Deb said: > > < everyone's uncomfortable with.>> > > I would say that Mingus is the true BLACK sheep in the family...DED is more > like a white techno-sheep with a bad perm! :~D Oh, no, no, no, no, I wasn't thinking of a racial thing at all. You know what I meant, although I guess the term "black sheep" needs to be replaced with something else. I know you were making a joke; I just don't find it funny. Now that you remind me of Mingus though, yeah, people are uncomfortable with both of those albums. But it seems that DED gets easily picked on compared to Mingus, which people at least respect, especially Joni's courageousness in making it, even if there's not much affection or appreciation for it. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:30:32 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... Catherine McKay wrote: > > > I hope this was a misspelling and you meant "fesses"; otherwise > you > >are REAL sick and need that shrink yourself. > > > >but of course although it sounds the same, it is actually spelt feaces. > > Not to drag this out, but the word we're thinking of can also be spelled > "feces" (it may be one of those American English vs England English > thingies, where we Canadians get stuck in the middle and will use either/or, > sometimes in the same piece of writing, but the trend in North America is to > take out the superfluous "a" in words of this kind, e.g. paediatrician vs > pediatrician; haemoglobin vs hemoglobin and so on) which I would pronounce > "FEE-sees" to rhyme with species, rather than "FESSes" (as in short for > confesses) to rhyme with tresses. I thought afterwards that it is probably spelt differently in American. I wonder if you have american language classses as we have english language classes here? I do not mean english for foreignors, but english for compositon, spelling, grammar etc.When i was over in the USA I discovered that English and American are really quite different, not just in spelling, but is usage and meaning too. For instance, we use the term pavement to mean the sidewalk and Americans use pavement to mean the tarmac on roads. > > > On the other hand, after my son was born, my next-door neighbour, who was > originally from New Zealand and is a nurse, asked me whether his "little > um-bi-LIKE-le" had fallen off yet. We tend to pronounce it "um-BILL-acle" > so it took me a few seconds to clue in to what she was talking about! > > (You say tomayto, I say tomahto, and all that jazz.) > > cateri@hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:51:24 -0700 From: Jenaya Dawe Subject: New Tom Rush Comp (vljc) From Sony's newsletter- COMING OCTOBER 5 + TOM RUSH - 'The Best Of Tom Rush: No Regrets (1962-1999)' Features 'River Song'---a brand new recording with Shawn Colvin! Tom Rush emerged from the early folk scene of the '60s as one of the premier leaders of the movement. His music was a gift of sheer brilliance---well-crafted songs with clear and undeniable meanings. He also recorded music with Jackson Browne, James Taylor and Joni Mitchell before they put out their first debut albums. Now, Legacy Recordings and Columbia Records are proud to present 'The Best of Tom Rush: No Regrets', a collection of some of Tom's most important songs. The collection contains 17 tracks--all digitally remastered for the best possible sound. yay! jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:59:40 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: RE: Joni Sleeves Anne said: << I'd be curious to hear 'acoustic' versions of the songs by Joni.>> I do have a BBC "Rock Master Class" interview tape with acoustic (guitar AND piano) versions of: Three Great Stimulants Impossible Dreamer Dog Eat Dog And a great interview to boot! And as always, I'm happy to share!! If you want a copy, lemme know! Bob NP: TMBG, "New York City" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:05:37 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves Anne Sandstrom wrote: > Wasn't Joni in a car accident about the time she was recording DED? Was she? I hadn't heard that. If she was, that just adds to her list of woes in the 80s, along with being butchered by a dentist and having everyone stealing from her (paraphrasing her words). With all that outer turmoil happening, it's surprising she created anything during those years. DS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:02:23 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... In a message dated 9/22/99 2:16:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << >but of course although it sounds the same, it is actually spelt feaces. Not to drag this out, but the word we're thinking of can also be spelled "feces" >> y'all have made this a really shitty thread. ss ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:04:44 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... In a message dated 9/22/99 2:35:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, catman@apso.screaming.net writes: << For instance, we use the term pavement to mean the sidewalk and Americans use pavement to mean the tarmac on roads. >> in south philadelphia they use the word pavement to mean sidewalk, but they pronounce it as 'payment' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:06:09 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... >y'all have made this a really shitty thread. >ss Definitely. Our minds are in the toilet! cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:05:04 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves Debra Shea said: <> Not much affection!?! Let me go on record again saying that I LOVE Mingus, not just because of what Joni was *attempting* but rather what she did! This record contains Joni's best singing EVER! Her voice swoops and soars like Sarah Vaughan's, it's gorgeous! And the songs are so complex that we rarely care to discuss them, like they're too lyrically complicated or something...or maybe they were all talked out before I came aboard. Granted, there's only 6 songs on it, but the layers of music and the colors...It only makes me that much more anxious to hear her Standards project, if it sounds like "Stormy Weather" and "Summertime" it will be the album of the year fer sher! Bob, who loves Mingus so much that he'd kiss the cover of it, but then he'd realize what MAYBE is on the cover and then go PTUI! PTOO!! NP: TMBG, "S-E-X-X-Y" (The Warren Rigg Microwave Mix) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:15:40 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: Reply to Gina, and a movie Gina wrote: "The Little Green thread just struck as somehow different in that the very fine details of a highly personal and painful decision on Joni's part was being discussed and second-guessed to an extent that I found uncomfortable for the reasons Michael mentioned above: do Joni or her daughter read some of these posts. I guess I'm just a very private person myself." Well, reasonable people can agree to disagree on this one. I admit to having experienced a few twinges upon participating in the "little green" thread, but finally concluded that 1) Joni is a public figure; 2) beyond that, she has voluntarily chosen to deal with some of the issues discussed in her body of work, as well as in interviews, and 3) as Kakki and several other people memorably pointed out, it may be difficult to underestimate the effect that her pregnancy, relinquishment of Kilauren, and now, subsequent reunion with her daughter and her family have had/will have on her life and art. I think all these factors, taken together, make this a bona fide subject for discussion here--although, were it not for the high caliber of that discussion and, even more, the respect for Joni that was so palpable throughout it, I might well have come to a different conclusion. In general, though, looking at an artist's work through the prism of his or her life can be problematic at best, even if one starts from the assumption--as I usually do--that such an endeavor can indeed be inherently useful. This was brought home to me in force this weekend when I saw the movie "Hilary and Jackie" on video. For those who haven't seen it, the movie tells the story of the great cellist Jacqueline Du Pre, her career, and her often turbulent relationship with her sister, Hilary. The movie was based on a controversial book called "A Genius in the Family," by Hilary and their brother, Piers, in which many family secrets were revealed that many who knew Jacqueline Du Pre thought should best have been *kept* secret. The most notable of these was the affair that Jacqueline apparently had with Hilary's husband, with Hilary's consent, at an deeply vulnerable point in Jacqueline's life. There are also moments in the film that chronicle Jacqueline's life after illness robbed her of her career which some critics felt were intrusive and inappropriate. Finally, several still-living associates of Jacqueline's--especially her husband, Daniel Barenboim--were not at all happy about the film, or about the way in which certain events they were part of were portrayed. Do I feel that I can appreciate the art of Jacqueline Du Pre on a deeper level due to what I now know about her life, and especially, the precarious state of her health during a substantial number of her prime playing years? Most definitely yes, although I know that some on this list would answer differently. Do I think the film crossed the line into sensationalism or vulgarity? For the most part, no, but the inclusion of some details did make me uncomfortable, despite the fact that they may have been necessary for the film's own integrity and vision. Do I think this film should have been made? That's a difficult question, but I'd probably say yes, if pushed, for some of the same reasons that I think this list should discuss "Little Green." And do I know where the line should be drawn between what is acceptable to be known of an artist's private life, and the parts that should be off limits even for one in the public eye? Hell, no! And if anyone has figured out the answer to *this* one, I'd love to hear it. Respectfully, Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:19:49 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: > I do have a BBC "Rock Master Class" interview tape with acoustic (guitar > AND piano) versions of: > Three Great Stimulants > Impossible Dreamer > Dog Eat Dog > And a great interview to boot! This sounds very interesting. Is this stuff going to be on a tape tree? Or is it already and I missed it? If the answer to both questions is no, I just may take you up on your generous offer. Other than always buying her albums as soon as they came out (or as soon as I found out about them), I wasn't paying much attention to Joni during the 80s, so am very curious about that time. I didn't even know she was married then until I read about it on the web pages. (Shocking, isn't it?) NRH brought back my enthusiasm for her work. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:40:13 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: DED Interview <> It's very interesting indeed! I love the interviews for the same reason I've enjoyed the discussion thread about "Little Green"...it gives me new insight into this artist whose work I adore! Has it been on a tree ? - no. Will it be treed? I dunno, but hey, life is short! You can wait and see, or let me know and I'll get you a copy! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:46:46 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: > Not much affection!?! Let me go on record again saying that I LOVE Mingus, > not just because of what Joni was *attempting* but rather what she did! Really? I didn't know that. What a great endorsement of Mingus! I'll keep this enthusiasm in mind when I listen again. :-) DS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:17:05 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves - Mingus Affection Bob wrote: > Not much affection!?! Let me go on record again saying that I LOVE Mingus, > not just because of what Joni was *attempting* but rather what she did! > > This record contains Joni's best singing EVER! Her voice swoops and soars > like Sarah Vaughan's, it's gorgeous! And the songs are so complex that we > rarely care to discuss them, like they're too lyrically complicated or > something...or maybe they were all talked out before I came aboard. The similarities between Joni's and Sarah's vocal style recently struck me like a lightning bolt. Don't know why I missed it before - probably because I had them mentally categorized into different "genres". You can especially hear it in the early Sarah songs. "Mingus" is an absolute gem and I think it will be regarded as a classic in years to come. I had to grow up before I could fully appreciate it and agree that it is very gorgeous. I can't recall much discussion of the lyrics here in the past. Maybe because it is complex - it's difficult for me to articulate and parse it because it feels somewhat ethereal. But maybe this would be a good challenge for us. > Granted, there's only 6 songs on it, but the layers of music and the > colors...It only makes me that much more anxious to hear her Standards > project, if it sounds like "Stormy Weather" and "Summertime" it will be the > album of the year fer sher! I think she's going to knock us over with it. Kakki NP: Diana Krall - Garden in the Rain ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:55:09 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Re: Here we go again..... Martin wrote a cute post: << << My Mum (who is a great Joni fan) told me at the weekend that she always imagined Joni and companions at the Chinese Cafe playing Mah Jong... Down at the Chinese Cafe We'd be spittin' on our dice...>> and Paul I tries, as always, to correct him: << Except that the pieces in mah jong are called "tiles," not dice.>> In this case, Paul, you are wrong. There are also tiles in Mah Jongg, but according to page 71 of the book "The Way To Play," "Other equipment includes: a) two dice b) scoring counters c) optional wind indicators" I am also holding in my very hands a set of dice that I just took out of a beautiful Mah Jongg set that was handed down to me by my grandmother. Who cares if they use dice, tiles, or elephants? It was cute. Can't we just leave it as that? Ashara {who gets sooooo very weary of seeing "Joni-isms" shot down by "corrections."} ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #202 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?