From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #200 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, September 22 1999 Volume 01 : Number 200 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Joni 2000 Tribute Festival ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Biographical info. (was little green) ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: Biographical info. (was little green) [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Biographical info. (was little green) ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Van Gogh Quote - SJC [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Joni's Covers [Jason Maloney ] Re: little green... [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: little green [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: little green [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: little green [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: little green [catman ] re: little green ["Amy" ] remove from list [User573678@aol.com] Re: Little Green ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: little green... (and introduction) ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: little green... ["Catherine McKay" ] Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... [Don Rowe ] Re: Joni 2000 Tribute Festival [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Biographical info. (was little green) ["Catherine McKay" ] Graham Nash Breaks Both Legs ["Peter Holmstedt" ] RE: Joni Sleeves ["David Greenspoon" ] Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... [catman ] Re: little green... [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Joni Sleeves [RMuRocks@aol.com] Here we go again..... [Ashara@aol.com] Re: Joni's Covers ["Mark or Travis" ] Little green blue and possibly red [Michael Paz ] Re: Joni Sleeves [dsk ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 04:34:59 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Joni 2000 Tribute Festival michaelmichaelmichaelmichaelmichaelmichael!!!! you got all worked up and excited now! you mean we won't have to wait a year to get together again? let the countdown begin, please, sir. wallyk, wondering what size new orleans mosquitoes are i'm o-----Original Message----- De: Michael Paz Para: Joni Digest Fecha: Martes 21 de Septiembre de 1999 00:05 Asunto: Joni 2000 Tribute Festival >***********Attention all time, space, and just plain travelers ************ >Soon you too can be traveling in some kinda vehicle towards beautiful N.O. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 01:33:49 -0600 From: evian Subject: little green Gina wrote about Anne Sexton: > However, some of my most cherished moments > > reading her poetry were somewhat robbed of their magic by the > background > > which accompanied them in the biography. I gained greater insight > but I lost > > some of the immediacy of just letting the words form their own > impressions. > Well, I guess I am a minority, but personally, I desire to have all the biographical info I possibly can pertaining to authors/songwriters/poets/etc. Anne Sexton is a good example. Her poetry REALLY came alive for me AFTER reading a biography. Now, this could be because my passion is life writing, and I love to make connections between the artist's work and life, and see where they intersect. For example, poets such as Sexton, Phyllis Webb, Plath, etc. really come alive for me knowing their background and personal experiences, and connecting them to their work. Same goes for authors of fiction -- Mary Shelley's Frankenstein takes on so much more meaning after you read her biography. Same holds true for F. Scott Fitzgerald and Zelda. Even theorists, like Michel Foucault, Melanie Klein, and Freud take on whole new dimensions when you apply their life to their work. Now, I am NOT saying that we must always draw on personal lives to compliment the art, but I DO find it useful to have this information.... it makes it intriguing, to say the least, and sometimes I do think it gives us a greater understanding, and also opens up many more doors to explore and question the work. And as for Joni, her work is very autobiographical, no matter what she says, and I find it very helpful and insightful to have the background of her personal experiences to enhance the songs.... even if I have a different take on a song, I still like knowing what she was intending. Evian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:09:44 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Biographical info. (was little green) Evian wrote: > Well, I guess I am a minority, but personally, I desire to have all >the biographical info I possibly can pertaining to >authors/songwriters/poets/etc And as for Joni, her work >is very autobiographical, no matter what she says, and I find it very >helpful and insightful to have the background of her personal >experiences to enhance the songs.... even if I have a different take on >a song, I still like knowing what she was intending. I agree. The reason I joined this list were many: to share the love of Joni's music, to exchange conversation with people around the world, but also to get insight into Joni herself, in order to understand the music a little better. There are many facts (and I use that word deliberately) that I wouldn't have learnt but for this list. We have people here who have spent time with Joni (Pat for example) and relate things first-hand. I understand that sometimes interpreting the meaning of a lyric or song can be more pleasing than the cold hard reality - for example if Little Green had just been some song she'd made up one day when imagining she'd had to give up a child, but I'd still rather know the truth! Flame away - I can take it! Seriously, I hope I haven't offended anyone (that WASN'T my intention), but this is the Joni Mitchell Discussion List, therefore I want to discuss Joni Mitchell - everything about Joni Mitchell. I'm obsessed, OK?! Helen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:24:55 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Joni 2000 Tribute Festival Michael wrote: >***********Attention all time, space, and just plain travelers ************ >Soon you too can be traveling in some kinda vehicle towards beautiful N.O. > I will be making an announcement next week on the dates for >Joni2000Tribute Festival in New Orleans. Oh, for God's sake! I just start to resign myself that I'll probably miss next year's Jonifest at Ashara's (sorry, but you KNOW it was a foregone conclusion) and then this happens! STOP TORMENTING ME!!!! To couple a Joni2000Tribute Festival with one of the few cities in the US that I'd LOVE to see is just too cruel - and don't flame me for that, I'm just not a "city" kind of girl. I was brought up at the beach! Anyway, I guess I'll be buying a few more lottery tickets over the next few months! Helen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:25:36 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Biographical info. (was little green) In a message dated 9/21/99 4:10:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: << Flame away - I can take it! Seriously, I hope I haven't offended anyone (that WASN'T my intention), but this is the Joni Mitchell Discussion List, therefore I want to discuss Joni Mitchell - everything about Joni Mitchell. I'm obsessed, OK?! >> Well, like Evian and Helen, I like to know the biographical facts. I'm a huge fan of Sylvia Plath and know her biographies inside and out. When I read her poetry, it's a different realm for me knowing the impact of Hughes on her writing, her childhood, her different encounters. Not at all better, just one that works for me. And the "biographical" details of JM are dealt here respectfully. It's looking at milestones in her life and trying to understand what was happening. It is less wanting to know the identity of every guy in "Cactus Tree," and more, "what makes her tick." Because she is far more a confessional poet than anything else. Of course, what makes her so great is that you can enjoy and appreciate her art on whatever level you chose: with biographical background or barely knowing her 'do history. Joni's songs work on every single level. MG np: morning pipes ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:44:52 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Biographical info. (was little green) MG said: >Well, like Evian and Helen, I like to know the biographical facts >And the "biographical" details of JM are dealt here respectfully. It's >looking at milestones in her life and trying to understand what was >happening. It is less wanting to know the identity of every guy in "Cactus >Tree," and more, "what makes her tick." Because she is far more a >confessional poet than anything else. > >Of course, what makes her so great is that you can enjoy and appreciate her >art on whatever level you chose: with biographical background or barely >knowing her 'do history. Joni's songs work on every single level. Now that's what I SHOULD have said! But it is 11.40pm and I'm too tired to be eloquent! Helen NP - The cat, on another of his wild rampages through the house. It's hilarious trying to watch a cat sprint around corners on a (very) polished wooden floor. Not a lot of traction! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:58:54 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: RE: little green... Hi Kakki. I was only speaking for myself. Not trying to "make some value judgements in a self-important voice..." There are just some things I don't know and I can think all I want "as if thinking makes it so" but it doesn't. Anne Wow, it's probably a good thing I can't quote a single line from the bible - Imagine how obnoxious I'd be :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:21:48 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Van Gogh Quote - SJC There is a well known Dutch Catholic author named Henri Nouwen who passed away in the mid 90's. Henri was a priest who remained faithful to his orders, even though after his death it became publicly known that he was a gay man. He remains one of the most respected and prolific catholic writers of this century and has a huge following within the catholic and anglican churches, in spite of his sexuality, which he always held close to the vest. This weekend i stumbled on a quote he mentions in one of his books and i thought i'd post it and follow it up with one of joni's which clearly comes from the same origin. The two writers, Joni and Henri are approaching different subjects, but it is neat to see two different whisps of smoke coming from the same chimney. henri nouwen: Our first and foremost task is faithfully to care for the inward fire so that when it is really needed it can offer warmth and light to lost travelers. Nobody expressed this with more conviction than the Dutch painter Vincent Van Gogh: There may be a great fire in our soul, yet no one ever comes to warm himself at it, and the passersby only see a wisp of smoke coming through the chimney, and go along their way. Look here, now what must be done? Must one tend the inner fire, have salt in oneself, wait patiently yet with how much impatience for the hour when somebody will come and sit down - maybe to stay? Let him who believes in God wait for the hour that will come sooner of later. Vincent Van gogh speaks here with the mind and heart of the desert fathers. He knew about the temptation to open all the doors so that passsersby could see the fire and not just the smoke coming through the chimney. But he also realized that if this happened, the fire would die and nobody would find warmth and new strenght. His own life is a powerful example of faithfulness to the inner fire. During his life, nobody came to sit down at his fire, but today thousands have found comfort and consolation in his drawings, paintings, and letters. Joni: You want to make Van Goghs, raise 'em up like sheep. Make 'em out of Eskimos and women if you please. Make 'em nice and normal, make 'em nice and neat. You see him with his shot gun there? Bloodied in the wheat? Oh what do you know about living in Turbulent Indigo? ....... "I'm a burning hearth," he said. "People see the smoke, but no one comes to warm themselves sloughing off a coat. And all my little landscapes, all my yellow afternoons, stack up around this vacancy like dirty cups and spoons. No mercy sweet Jesus! No mercy from Turbulent Indigo." My only comment on the quotes is that i love them both and I feel a deep sense of unity when two gifted writers converge around a shared experience. And I think now that Henri was brilliant and very strong to hold true to his heart and inner fire within a world that was totally against his genuine beauty. In a way, he is like Vincent. He has left a litany of books and a vast sense of appreciation among legalistic institutional churches that are forced to reconcile Henri's heart and love with their laws. pat ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:51:59 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Joni's Covers Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: > > I would rate her better covers: > LOTC > HOSL > C&S > Hejira (Photography as art) > Mingus > S&L > WTRF > TI > TTT (Love that shade of Green) > > DED would get a nod except for that 'doo! :~) LOL...well, as Joni's painting is very much part of her overall artistic raison d'etre, I'll weigh in with my favourite Joni sleeves : Hejira CMIARS Mingus C&S LOTC I'm basing my choices simply from the viewpoint of which ones look most pleasing to my eyes, rather than any deeper artistic merit or conceptual value... :-) Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:33:05 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: little green... In a message dated 9/21/99 12:10:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << I'm sorry that my participation in these threads have caused some of you to cringe or diminished your enjoyment of Joni's music. Guess I just get too comfortable around here sometimes. Kakki >> No, no...I'm so very sorry if it sounded like I was "cringing". I guess I got a little too comfortable myself in expressing my feelings around here and it came off sounding all wrong. I hope my subsequent post revealed more accurately and sensitively what I was thinking and feeling. The thread participation has been nothing but exemplary and just because I have these strong feelings about interpretation of an artist's work doesn't mean my appreciation of it is diminished. And even if it did, that's my thing to grapple with! I can choose to read it and take it with a grain of salt. I didn't mean to be critical, though I can see where my first post would indicate that I was. Again, I'm truly sorry. I'll try to be more careful how I say things. I can come off sounding rather blunt in writing at times, especially when I have limited time, I can be rather over-expedient. Take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:46:38 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: little green In a message dated 9/21/99 3:36:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, evian@sk.sympatico.ca writes: << Well, I guess I am a minority, but personally, I desire to have all the biographical info I possibly can pertaining to authors/songwriters/poets/etc. Anne Sexton is a good example. Her poetry REALLY came alive for me AFTER reading a biography. >> Evian, As I indicated in my post, there is a lot to be gained by knowing biographical information but in my case there is the added *loss* of something really special in the arrangement of the words themselves to create their own reality and impression on the reader; in the essence their own "life". It's intangible and really hard to articulate but I believe that Lahm (thanks for your post, David!) and perhaps others understand what I'm getting at. The minute dissection and speculation is the part I have difficulty with personally. That isn't to say that I don't want to read what people are thinking about at all. It's just that reading some of the Little Green posts have brought up a lot of food for thought on the subject and I felt I wanted to share that. There seems to be such a draw for us to at least *try* to articulate our feelings about any number of things in this forum. It's a very powerful draw and one that at times puts me in a quandary because I am not always in synch with the way most of the rest of the world thinks and feels. I don't want to come off oppositional, yet I feel like I want to test out my thoughts in my own way. It is compelling. Take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:02:01 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: little green Evian said <> I'm in your camp here, Evian. It's not that the knowledge of Joni's personal life ruins my understanding of her songs, but rather that it adds a color and a richness to the understanding. Similarly, I just read a biography on Rod Serling that helped me to better appreciate his writing career and some of the themes he explored with The Twilight Zone. However, even with the additional information, my interpretation of Joni's work doesn't change much, just like when I sing a wrong phrase...even though I know she's singing "Lead Foot Melvin", I'm gonna sing "Liquid Melvin" every time! :~) And I also wanted to acknowledge what Penny said, this whole thread has been a GREAT example of what this group does best and is why I joined the Joni discussion list even with my diverse taste in music; you guys have a sensitivity, intelligence and warmth that is incredibly refreshing... I thought of our "Little Green" thread this weekend when I went to see "For Love of the Game". The Kelly Preston character reveals to the K. Costner character that she had a daughter out of wedlock when she was 16 but didn't tell him immediately because she didn't want him misjudging her unfairly for it. Two thumbs down on the flick though... Bob NP: John Fogerty, "Blue Moon Nights" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:39:36 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: little green Evian said <> I suppose it goes beyond that for me. In acknowledgement and agreement with what many others have said here in the months I've been on the JMDL, Joni has been a huge part of my life for many, many years. When friends weren't always there for me, whether they simply weren't accessible at the time or because of some difference that wouldn't be reconciled, Joni was always there through her incredible lyrics. She could reach me, touch me, and comfort me just as I let my friends do when they're around. But just as I try to understand where a friend is coming from, I like to understand where Joni is coming from. And one of the reasons I like to know friends better is when they continue to do something that bugs me. Like it really bugs me when Joni is so critical of new women artists. It didn't make any sense to me because I simply don't see her artistic genius threatened by anyone. So if tying some of the pieces of the emotional trauma of having to give up Kilauren triggers Joni's feelings about her need for recognition apart from the other women artists who get more in the way of sales, good press and popular appeal, then I can better develop an attitude of compassion and understanding when Joni gets snippy again. It's the same way I would try to understand a friend, so I'm better prepared to accept what I don't really care for in them and also defend them to others. Some of the same kind of logic applies to my take on Joni's relationship with her mom. I think it was MG who first used the word "disappointment" in this thread, which I'd like to expand on. Without going into unnecessary detail, at around the same age Joni was when she got pregnant with her child, I failed in a situation that was against my parents moral and social standards. I regretted the situation I was in immediately, but my parents never found out about it. For nearly two decades I can remember thinking and feeling that the only one I never wanted to find out about this was my mother because I didn't want her to be disappointed in me. During the nearly 20 years of hiding my "unacceptable error" from my Myrtle like mom, she became increasingly rigid, harsh and judgemental in my eyes and the weight of hiding this mistake became heavier and heavier. A couple of years ago the weight of hiding out had grown worse than the fear of my mom's disappointment, so I spilled my guts to her about the whole situation. She met me with an unconditionally loving acceptance and her response to "the situation" was one of compassion and understanding. And even beyond that she gave me incredibly high praise for not only not harboring bitterness or resentment for the other parties involved, but also for my maintaining a sincere love for them. Years of carrying around a heavy burden, at least where my mom was concerned, had been all because of my fear of disappointing her. This woman that I had once viewed at an insensitive and cold hearted task master, is now a very good friend of mine. And I would hope that can be the same result for Joni and Myrtle too, if it's not already. And if this thread can in some way encourage just one person or show the necessity to come clean in getting rid of some of the long carried emotional baggage that tears away at important relationships, then this thread has great value indeed. Peace, Penny ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:19:09 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: little green > And if this thread can in some way encourage just one > person or show the necessity to come clean in getting rid of some of the > long carried emotional baggage that tears away at important > relationships, then this thread has great value indeed. I am glad for you that you have that type of parent. i must admit, I find it almost impossible to understand the fear of disappointing parents, but not completely. i feel that way towards my partner. I nevr do stuff I fear would make him be disappointed in me. I also have never told him the whole truth about my past for that reason. in fact, this list, or at least some on it, know more about the details of my past than he ever will. It wouldn;'t help him to know and it would hurt him. he is mad enough knowing some of it and besides i wouldn't want the whole sordid business to sully what we have. I am not sure I am sating this very clearly but I guess I feel if he knew all the deatils and shread in what was done to me, it would alter things in such a way that would not good. The truth isn't always the best way forward.i think it is great that people have parents they feel this way towards. I think feeling the lack of parents never goes away. Keeping that relaionship going, if it is within your power to do so, is wonderful. Relationships with people, good ones, are the most important thing, imo. Sp I am glad to hear that you and others have positive ones. > > > Peace, > Penny - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:58:09 -0400 From: "Amy" Subject: re: little green Hello everyone... Just had to jump out of the lurking mode and try to describe what it feels like to be an adopted child, and hear the poetry of Little Green... To those of you who know me, you already know that I have been searching for a birth-family connection for several years. Mostly to have those age-old questions answered and my curiosity satisfied...but that's a story in and of itself. I have listened to Blue for so long, it feels like it is a part of me. When I first heard Little Green, I was overwhelmed by the emotion that seems to pour from her, and have held that feeling close to my heart ever since. I hoped and prayed that that was how my birth-mom felt...you may hear sadness and regrets coming from Joni, but what I hear is love and hope. Hope that her child has a happy life, wherever and whatever it may be. And love, because relinquishing a child must be the most selfless expression of love that a parent could ever undertake. When I met Joni last year at the hotel before the concert in Detroit, I was understandably flustered...to say the least. But I wanted her to know how that aspect of her life, had touched me, as an adopted child. We spoke briefly on the subject, and I told her how happy I was for her, and the reunion between her and Kilauren. She asked about my search, how it was going, even about the laws in my state and how you could get birth records if you were born before a certain year. She squeezed my hand, looked me dead in the eye, and said," I hope you find what you are looking for." It was if we shared this little special something...even for just that brief moment in time. I will never forget how she made me feel and I think of that brief connection we made with joy and gratification. Now, for those of you with inquiring minds, I have come a long way on the search. Through the process, I found that there was another person "out there" searching for the same bio-mom that I was...surprise! I have made contact with my half-sister, who was also relinquished for adoption several years after I was born, and many, many of the questions have been answered. But let me assure you, this is a very difficult process. For the adoptee, their families, and all the people who are ultimately affected by the knowledge we gain. I think a lot about Kilauren's family and the struggle they must have gone through...and I hope that it has been a smooth transition for all concerned. For my parents, my life began the moment I was placed in their arms...I was always the one who wondered about the previous 9 months. So, to those of you who are parents, biological, adoptive, foster, whatever fits....treasure the children...give them unlimited love, let them grow and blossom under your watchful eyes. This is the biggest, most complex, hardest, yet most rewarding job that any of us will ever undertake. I can only imagine the joy that Joni must get from having that connection with her daughter and grandchildren ...and I am delighted that she has found what she was looking for. Blessings to all~ Amy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:20:01 EDT From: User573678@aol.com Subject: remove from list remove from list ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:37:20 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Little Green Steve said: >I remember hearing/reading that those close to Joni knew - Graham, >David (Crosby and Geffin), etc. I guess some people still have enough >class to keep some things to themselves. > That is truly amazing that, out of all those people who may have known, there wasn't a schmuck among them! cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:39:46 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: little green... (and introduction) >I've never thought of Joni Mitchell as tabloid fodder....now, had >Kelly >been a 100 lb. infant... > LOL! Or a two-headed one. Or if Elvis had been spotted in the neighbourhood, or a vision of Jesus appeared on Joni's screen door... cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:47:45 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Joni in the tabloids >I can remember two Joni articles in National Enquirer, (back when I >had my >lifetime subscription). the situation w/ her maid and >all that. This "situation with her maid" was mentioned once before and now that it has come up again, what gives with that? I never heard about that - is there something on the jmdl homepage or the jonimitchell.com site about that? I've been through a lot of that stuff and maybe I just missed it. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:55:04 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: little green... << Then you said "maybe the way she coped with the horrible pain of the whole situation of making a real wrong choice of a husband and having to give up her baby, was to go inside to the one thing she had left - her creative reservoir - and throw herself totally into it. Out of that immersion came a wealth of incredible songs, one right after the other." >> Jeez, I wish I HAD said that, but 'twasn't I! cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:19:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... This whole "Joni in the tabloids" thing has got me thinking ... you'd see headlines like: "Roswell Space Alien Baby Sighting -- Was It Just A False Alarm?" "Free Man In Paris Actually A Strange Boy!!" "Loni Anderson Fetes New Boom-Boom Pachyderm" "A Case Of You -- Revolutionary New Beer Diet REALLY WORKS!" "OJ Wags Finger At Darden ... Yells I DON'T LIKE YOU" "Shocking New Discovery -- Tricky Dick Actually Raised On Robbery!" Take it away guys, I know I've only scratched the surface here ... Don Rowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:18:01 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni 2000 Tribute Festival Michael writes: << I will be making an announcement next week on the dates for Joni2000Tribute Festival in New Orleans. >> Oh Great Michael!!! Is this going to be called Joni-Gras? I'll make sure to bring some wampum beads to toss to the crowds. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:23:20 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... LOL!! Howzabout "Farm House Burns Down in the Middle of Nowhere in the Middle of the Night"... Bob NP: Steve Winwood, "The Finer Things" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:27:16 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Biographical info. (was little green) Like many others who have posted recently, I want to know as much as possible about the people whose music I love, or whose books I read, or whatever. It helps me understand what they're about, but it also points me in the direction of others' work that I may like - if you know what influenced that person, and you like their stuff, then, chances are, you're going to like the writers that influenced them. Even if I have an idea about what Joni's song may be about, I know this is just my interpretation or impression, so I'm not disappointed if I find out it's something totally different - it just adds a new dimension to the song. Which is why it drives me nuts when a CD comes out and nothing is said about who performed on the song, who wrote it and so on. It doesn't happen often and maybe a lot of these things are reprints (or whatever the audio version of that is) and they're the cheapo versions. Give me LINER NOTES anytime - and pictures! I'm not overly crazy about knowing TOO much about people's personal lives - the kiss-and-tell type of biographies/autobiographies that are so popular these days don't do much for me. OK, so maybe I am prudish, but do we really need to know the graphic details of someone's sex life, how many people they slept with, who they lost their virginity to and all that? Knowing that they've had many relationships, or that they've been married to the same person for 50 years does tell you something about a person, as does knowing who they have had relationships with (romantic, friendly, professional, whatever), but IMO (of course!), a lot of the graphic details people get into don't add anything, so puh-leez! spare the details of what so-and-so was like in bed. I just don't want to know! Next thing you know, they'll be describing their toilet habits. Now, on the facelift thing. That can be funny sometimes because some people do overdo it - and then insist they haven't done anything (so how come your facial skin is pulled back so tight you could put your cheeks in a ponytail? and how come your bellybutton is on your chin?) I'd really like to think Joni hasn't had cosmetic surgery but if she did, it's her own business. If I hated my nose, I'd be out there getting it fixed. And a good thing I don't hate my nose - can't afford cosmetic surgery! (Of course, here in "socialist" Canada, you might be able to get it covered by your health insurance, if someone kindly broke your nose for it first - since they've gotta fix off that mess to begin with, might as well make it look good at the same time.) On the other hand, I have never understood why anyone would want bigger boobs. The damn things get in the way as it is ;> cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:26:34 -0600 From: evian Subject: little green Gina wrote: > The minute dissection and speculation is the part I have difficulty with > personally. > I see where you are coming from Gina. Sometimes I too just want to say "Leave it alone, I'll come up with my own conclusions." But again, I love to speculate and dissect a song, poem, story, etc. and see what I come up with. Maybe I have been studying literature for too long already, I don't know. I still keep my own opinions on works, but I still love to look at something and see how intricately woven a text is, and how little pieces of the author's life fit into it. For example, I am teaching Joyce's "Araby" this week, and damn, there are such interesting parallels from his life that fit into the story. The story still stands on it's own, but his own life experiences really come into play, and I love to connect the dots, as they say.... As for Joni, there are songs that grab me and take on their own meaning, even when I am unsure what exactly she is intending. Then, once I figure out what she was thinking, what was going on in her life, etc., my original "feel" of the song usually still stands. An example is "Don't Interupt The Sorrow". This song means so much to me, even though it took me years to even try to grasp what exactly she was saying. Hell, I still don't really know. But even after the thread on the song, It still takes me to that place, that feeling, and I still use my own personal interpretation. So, I guess I rambling trying to say that the Joni info is invaluable for me, but my own interpretation still stands in certain songs no matter how much we learn or pick it apart. As for Little Green, it fascinates me how this was the one song on Blue that isn't told as a first person narrative, and I love making the whole psychological/social/etc. connection with that pertaining to what we know now about Joni's experiences. Same holds true for a lot of her later work, especially TI and TTT, and Joni's experiences with the industry, etc. Oh, and as for "Facelift", I love the fact that I know what I know about Joni, and Saskatoon, and her relationship with her mom, and I can picture the hotel they are at (I am sure it's the Bessborough or the Ramada), and I see the Christmas lights, and the river view, and feel the cold, and know her mother's disapproval about Freed in light of the break up with Klein, and everything else. This is an example how it really comes alive for me. But, at the same time, I do understand where Gina is coming from about how the picking apart can sometimes change your perception and views of a work where you might not want it to. However, even after reading the archives of the Sweet Bird thread, I still have no frigging clue what exactly is going on there.... y'all are just too damn intelligent! Evian np: Amy Grant -- Lead Me On ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:58:06 +0200 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Graham Nash Breaks Both Legs Graham Nash Breaks Both Legs In Accident ..c The Associated Press LIHUE, Hawaii (AP) - Graham Nash relied on the memory of a Hawaiian sunset to block out the pain of two broken legs and a broken ankle suffered in a boating accident off Kauai. The musician, his wife, Susan, and son Will, 19, were aboard a friend's boat on Sept. 12 when a ``freak'' wave sent Nash into the air. As he was coming down, the boat was pushed up by another wave. "I heard my leg snap. I felt it break in half,'' Nash, 57, said Saturday from his home on Kauai's north shore. "I have to say it was an amazing sound.'' The member of Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young said he refused to think about the pain during the two hours it took to get him to a hospital. "I just decided to ignore everything below my waist, block it out,'' he said. "In my mind I saw that glorious sunset from a visit here two months ago with my friends.'' When Nash arrived at the hospital, the doctor told him he wanted to insert pins into his legs and a plate into his ankle. "I looked into the man's eyes and I told him, `I trust you completely. Rock on," said Nash, who may need a wheelchair for the next three months. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:01:50 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Re: Little Green Catherine wrote: >That is truly amazing that, out of all those people who may have known, >there wasn't a schmuck among them! Well, maybe she has good taste in men, a view strenghthened by seeing how extraordinarily loving and supportive many of her ex's are (think Klein, Nash). ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:36:25 PDT From: "David Greenspoon" Subject: RE: Joni Sleeves HI ALL Jason wrote >I'll weigh in with my favourite Joni sleeves : >Hejira >CMIARS >Mingus >C&S >LOTC I agree with Hejira as the #1 greatest sleeve but the other good ones worthy of mention HOSL TTT STOS TI With DED the one cover I really just DONT care for!!! David ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:46:34 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... Don says: << This whole "Joni in the tabloids" thing has got me thinking ... you'd see headlines like: "Roswell Space Alien Baby Sighting -- Was It Just A False Alarm?" >> And there's always the headline I saw in a tabloid today: "Courtney Visits A Plastic Surgeon - Love Puts On A New Face" I know it was baaaaaad! Forgive me, Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:59:45 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... Clinton Denies Sexual Relationship With Lewisnksy-as he undoes his zipper and yanks her to her knees. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:33:02 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: little green... In a message dated 9/21/99 3:52:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << I'm sorry that my participation in these threads have caused some of you to cringe or diminished your enjoyment of Joni's music. Guess I just get too comfortable around here sometimes. >> I didn't want to start a "oh no" back and forth thread on this, but I did want to let you know that your participation in the threads have always been thoughtful and provoking. The stuff that might dig too deeply into the minute is always done lightly and with witty good taste. Please count me as one who has had her Joni appreciation GREATLY enhanced by your posts. And I bet that most people here know how to "take what they need and disregard the rest," without any offense or diminished enjoyment whatsoever. MG np: Baez singing: "Simple Twist of Fate" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:03:09 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves In a message dated 9/21/99 4:00:08 PM US Central Standard Time, dgreenspoon@hotmail.com writes: << With DED the one cover I really just DONT care for!!! >> Dang...poor old DED can't even score point for its cover!! LOL! Bob NP: The Wallflowers, "Laughing Out Loud" (I kid you not) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:08:55 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Here we go again..... Bob admits: << However, even with the additional information, my interpretation of Joni's work doesn't change much, just like when I sing a wrong phrase...even though I know she's singing "Lead Foot Melvin", I'm gonna sing "Liquid Melvin" every time! :~) >> Oh, no. Not AGAIN!!!! It's NOT "Liquid Melvin????" Hugs, Ashara {who does not DARE to read any Joni lyrics for fear that she has mondegreened EVERY SINGLE SONG Joni has ever written, or thought of writing!} ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:39:43 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni's Covers > I'm basing my choices simply from the viewpoint of which ones look most > pleasing to my eyes, rather than any deeper artistic merit or conceptual > value... :-) Joni sleeves would have to be: Mingus - some of her most powerful paintings imo Hejira - the photography is no less than exquisite TTT - wonderful paintings, warm colors TI - perfect cover for the record Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:59:36 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Little green blue and possibly red Colin wrote: "Gina-I agree. i don't really want to know what Joni means in her works. I have my own impressions. I think knwoing what she emans might ruin my enjoyment. As for the discussion of her and her guessed at thoughts and reactions and guitls etc, I can't help but feel uncomfortable. It is at such times I imagine her reading this list and it makes me cringe. Would I like to be discussed like this? would I want people who do not know me analyzing me from this point of ignorance? Meaning, when they do not know me? of course the discussions are interesting and long may they continue. I do not mean to suggest such discussions shouldn't take place, just that it brings those feelings up in me. Of course Joni might well love them and not have that cringing feeling I imagine!!!!" Colin- I think this is a very intelligent post. I don't really care what it was that she meant by her songs, although it is fun to daydream about what she might have meant, but as for discussing it in this forum, I cannot. I do treasure the way her songs make me feel and how they sometimes change as I get older and hopefully wiser. My skin crawls when I think of alot of the discussion being our there for her children and grandchildren to read. I also treasure this community and what it means to me and don't mean to try and stifle ANYONES feelings our thoughts. I personally think she made the choices she did and is now living with those choices. She has been blessed and cursed in so many ways, just like we all have. I do hope that she continue her "arts" for a long time to come for ALL OF US to enjoy and inspires in many wonderful ways. I for one think she probably laughs her ass off and cringes at the same time. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:08:42 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... "Guiness Book of Records investigates woman's claim to have pissed the length of Parking Lot!" LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 01:20:59 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... KING IN A TENEMENT CASTLE: New Elvis sighting on Manhattan's Lower East Side! HE'S GOT A WOMAN AT HOME, HE'S GOT ANOTHER WOMAN DOWN THE HALL: An Intimate Tour of the Whitehouse! SWEET SUCKER DANCE: Monica bares it all!!! WHEN THE HOPES GOT SO SLIM, I JUST RESIGNED: Karen Carpenter's Shrink Feces Up!!! WITH A HOLE IN HER STOCKINGS: Female Member of Weird Joni Mitchell Cult Bled White by Freak New England Mosquitoes!!! WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:28:16 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... In a message dated 9/22/99 12:22:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wallykai@interserver.com.ar writes: << WHEN THE HOPES GOT SO SLIM, I JUST RESIGNED: Karen Carpenter's Shrink Feces Up!!! >> I hope this was a misspelling and you meant "fesses"; otherwise you are REAL sick and need that shrink yourself. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 01:13:15 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni 2000 Tribute Festival In a message dated 9/21/1999 1:48:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net writes: << ***********Attention all time, space, and just plain travelers ************ Soon you too can be traveling in some kinda vehicle towards beautiful N.O. I will be making an announcement next week on the dates for Joni2000Tribute Festival in New Orleans. I have spoken to the owner of the Howlin' Wolf a very cool local club for live music, and he has agreed to let me have the joint for a Sunday night. I also spoke to my wife who just happened to be in an incredibly light mood this week end >> THIS IS GREAT NEWS!!!! I have never been to New Orleans and now I have the perfect reason to go there. I have never been to Boston(not like I was actually there) but I am turning into a real traveler from this list! Eric will be with me with his bass in tow! I promise!!!! Catgirl travellling in the vehicle sleeping in New Orleans!! Big BIG WHOOOOOO-HOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:01:04 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni 2000 Tribute Festival > Catgirl travellling in the vehicle sleeping in New Orleans!! > Big BIG WHOOOOOO-HOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm singing the harmony line, Catgirl!!! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 01:57:23 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves RMuRocks@aol.com wrote: > Dang...poor old DED can't even score point for its cover!! LOL! Well, that's too sad! That's just not right. :-) So I'll put in my vote for DED's cover. I've always liked it, but today I looked at all my Joni CDs, comparing them to her album covers, and DED is the only one I kept returning to, wanting to see it again. BECAUSE: I like the way the outside of the album cover is an edge-to-edge painting; and there's a second full painting inside also, unlike other covers in which the paintings are enclosed either by heavy frames or used as little illustrations. On the DED album cover there's no such distancing; Joni's "hand" is clearly visible. I love seeing the evidence of an artist's movements, which is part of what makes drawings so engaging. I like the odd combination on DED of photographs, quick broad brush strokes and silver metallic felt-tip pen lines; there's an energy and immediacy and honesty that none of the other covers have. It feels like Joni just created it. Yeah, I know, the cover's not pretty, but I like the outer image especially, like Joni herself is a wild woman howling with the wolves. And then there's the contrast of the straight lines in her jacket contrasted with the haphazard doodly lines in her hair and on the animals. And, why's that wolf on the back looking so closely at that car wreck? I don't think any of this comes across well in the CD packaging. It's too small, whereas the album cover is about the size of an actual drawing/painting. The paintings don't wrap around the CD cover, and the silver lines actually look metallic on the album cover and just kind of grey on the CD. So that's my explanation of why I like DED's cover, a lot. So no more LOL at DED OK? (Although that hairdo IS goofy looking, isn't it? That was the style though; as I recall, most women then were getting perms if their hair wasn't naturally curly.) And now that I'm looking at all these covers: Why is the cover of WTRF such a drab brown-grey color when most of the songs are such exuberant love songs? That color combined with the wild horses captured in the TV screen makes me think Joni was feeling boxed in, not her usual dancing "let the wind carry me" self. Even though the outer painting goes edge-to-edge, this (I've decided right now) is my least favorite cover. It's the only one where the cover doesn't seem to fit the music. I think Blue is a beautiful cover; again the album cover especially because the whole big cover is that deep blue with the song titles so tiny on a back corner you can hardly read them, so the stark blueness isn't interrupted (unlike on the CD where the song titles take over the back). Sorry to any only-CD owners; but it's hard not to talk about the beauty of those big album covers (and the pre-90s artwork was designed for that size, so it makes sense it would look better album-sized). Of course, that perceived beauty is also all entwined with listening to each album for the first time while looking at the cover and reading the lyrics, and listening again over and over... Sound familiar? :-) 'night y'all. Debra Shea ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #200 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?