From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #194 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Friday, September 17 1999 Volume 01 : Number 194 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Sting's Snubbing (SJC) [MGVal@aol.com] tribute Album ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Re: little green... ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: little green... [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: little green... ["Mark or Travis" ] RE: Joni on VH-1 ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: little green... [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Grace of my heart ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: little green... [Siresorrow@aol.com] Good vs. Evil (vljc) [Janene Otten ] RE: Joni movie cast [Anne Sandstrom ] Re: Grace of my heart [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Grace of my heart [rachel kramer bussel ] Raised on Snobbery (Parody) [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] RE: Raised on Snobbery (Parody) [Anne Sandstrom ] RE: Raised on Snobbery (Parody) [Anne Sandstrom ] Raised on Snobbery (2nd Try) [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] RE: Raised on Snobbery (Parody) [Chris Marshall ] Re: Jonifest Pics/ Joni Photo [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Sting's Snubbing (SJC) [Don Rowe ] BOHO Dance ["David Greenspoon" ] Re: Good vs. Evil (vljc) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: BOHO Dance ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] RE: Good vs. Evil (vljc) [Louis Lynch ] Re: little green... [Marksa973@aol.com] Re: little green... ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: little green... [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Raised on Snobbery (2nd Try) ["Kakki" ] Re: BOHO Dance ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: Good vs. Evil (vljc) [Janene Otten ] Re: little green... ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: little green... ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: BOHO Dance [Chris Marshall ] Re: Grace of my heart [Vince Lavieri ] Re: JMDL Digest V4 #413 [lmoneil@webtv.net (Pepsi Cola)] Re: Good vs. Evil (vljc) [Vince Lavieri ] Chuck [Steve Dulson ] Subject: Re: Sting's Snubbing and Sting's manager(SJC) [Bounced Message ] Chuck/Boho/Kelly/er...etc.... [Steve Dulson ] Re: JMDL Digest V4 #415 [lmoneil@webtv.net (Pepsi Cola)] Re: little green... [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: little green... [TerryM2442@aol.com] was joni adopted? ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Raised on Snobbery (Parody) ["Wally Kairuz" > Is it really rude? Wally's update mentioned agents and "people." I would venture to guess that it is less a snub and more the artist as a person being more and more removed from the "dealings" and their collaboration time governed by elaborate and intricate contracts. Remember the Mingus story? How Mingus tried to reach Joni through "usual" channels, (what are those???), but the "people" he reached couldn't believe that she would be interested or that his request was genuine? I betcha that it is more along those lines than anything else. Art and business may pay the mortgage, but I'm sure that there are projects and collaborations that get lost in the sauce. MG - who knows less than doodlysquat about art but works with Profit Margins every single day...... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:05:16 GMT From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: tribute Album Dear Lonely Travellers I have just read the exciting news re tribute album. I think it's gonna be great. One thing that mead me laugh was Janet Jackson's choice of cover. I thought that she would go for something a little vocally easier and with a little more control like a ballad. Much as I like Janet, vocally she's quite meek. Can you imagine 'This is his story, it's a tough one for me to sing...' Bless. Anyway can't wait to hear the album. Much Joni Jamie Zubairi ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:15:15 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: little green... You said: "It's just hit me how courageous and beautiful it was for Joni to include Little Green on the Blue album." You're quite right - I don't know how she could get through this without crying all the way through it - God, my eyes are misting over just thinking about it. How terribly sad it must be to have to give up your child, even if you know it's probably the best thing you could do for him or her. I can't even imagine having to part with one of my kids. And then, within a short while, to suddenly come into fortune and fame and to think if she had had that a year or so ago, she wouldn't have had to give up her daughter. It's too painful. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:31:22 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: little green... In a message dated 9/17/99 9:18:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << I can't even imagine having to part with one of my kids. And then, within a short while, to suddenly come into fortune and fame and to think if she had had that a year or so ago, she wouldn't have had to give up her daughter. It's too painful. > i think that exact tension became the structural support upon which most of her art was built. we could call a tension like that a 'turbulent indigo'. more than the men that came and went, more than the record lables, i think you have identified her most defining quality as a person and as an artist. i personally think it broke her heart and it never has been right since. it was a death that can not be replaced. all those years. ss ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 06:43:26 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: little green... > i think that exact tension became the structural support upon which most of > her art was built. we could call a tension like that a 'turbulent indigo'. > more than the men that came and went, more than the record lables, i think > you have identified her most defining quality as a person and as an artist. > i personally think it broke her heart and it never has been right since. it > was a death that can not be replaced. all those years. ss I agree. Joni has often said that she was quite the good time gal in her teen years and a lot of the people she knew back then were puzzled by the confessional poet who seemed so serious and sad. Having to give up that child colored so much of what she created. But I still maintain that TTT shows a certain measure of peace at having reconnected. She's free of it to a large extent now. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:00:22 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: Joni on VH-1 You asked: >Didn't Much Music do a prog called "The New Music"? Had a wonderful >Canadian bias, being Canadian, and we used to get it late nights >in the UK. Fabulous stuff. I'm sure I remember seeting Joni on there, >as well as The Tragically Hip. > >Or have I got it all wrong? > Yup, they did. I think they still do. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:58:34 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: little green... <> I would concur with this, there are the obvious breadcrumbs like "Green", "Chinese Cafe", even "Morning Morgantown", but I think too in a more subtle way so many of her references to her "search for love" have to do with her search for her daughter as well... And now that they're reconnected, while there's the joy of that reunion, it's bittersweet because it's a constant reminder of the lost years of the relationship, like you said. She's said in interviews that TTT didn't really deal with the reunion, I'm sure her next disc of original tunes will (whenever THAT comes to the surface, who knows?). Maybe she'll write "Another Song to Sharon" telling her of her joy of finally having a family too... Bob NP: Sponge, "Rotting Pinata" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:12:14 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Grace of my heart Jason said: "Grace Of My Heart (look...Joni Content!) still has not been released on home video in the UK (at least at retail, I know you can rent it in some bigger stores still)." I've never heard of this. Is it a music video? cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:58:43 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: little green... mark.travis@gte.net writes: << But I still maintain that TTT shows a certain measure of peace at having reconnected. She's free of it to a large extent now. >> and Bob writes: < Subject: Good vs. Evil (vljc) I first want to thank Craig and Cat for their posts. I really appreciated the words of wisdom. I had a disturbing conversation with a friend this morning on the train. I was so upset at myself for being disturbed. That happens to me sometimes. I was just frustrated inside. I tend to have a rather philosophical way of thinking while my friend was being a bit more scientific. The topic of conversation was why Jews do not approve of tattoos. This led us into to the realms of religion, politics and economics. Heavy duty for a morning train ride to work; I should have known better. Anyway, the point is that the Pete Seeger lyrics were appropriate because I feel like that today. I feel like there are people who go through life with blinders, some whose are wide open, some who take risks and some who don't, some who are leaders and other who follow. Where does all of this get us, humankind? Why don't people trust their hearts? Is there true evil in the hearts of evildoers or is it learned? The lyrics helped me to regain some strength of purpose. This leads me to Craig's post. I am touched so deeply by these acts of sacrifice and commitment in much of the same way I am disturbed by the realization of the heinous acts that have occurred throughout history. I want to thank Craig and all of those who are working together in love. I am also thankful that fear does not always overshadow love. I pray for all of us and for all of those who have endured such loss. Forgive, me, I don't always brood so publicly! I know I wrote some Joni content so here it is: When I heard about the Joni covers album, I called some people I know to try to get some inside info. on the project. This was about a year and half ago. I eventually spoke to some of the "puppetmasters" and I asked if I could record a song. Well, add me to the list of those who were turned away! *LOL* (Geez, if Morrissey was turned away, it's no wonder they wouldn't give me the time of day!)After reading the Labor Day posts, it seems a JMDL album is a great idea. Thanks for reading. Janene np: Tori Amos Crucify EP (I'm obviously still feelin' the strain!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:26:04 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: RE: Joni movie cast OH, OH !!! Can I change the casting of "me" in the JoniFest movie to Jodie Foster? Please? Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:08:34 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Grace of my heart In a message dated 9/17/99 10:15:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << ason said: "Grace Of My Heart (look...Joni Content!) still has not been released on home video in the UK (at least at retail, I know you can rent it in some bigger stores still)." I've never heard of this. Is it a music video? >> It is a feature-length movie about a songwriter who wants to be a singer, starring Illeana Douglas and John Torturro. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:36:39 -0400 (EDT) From: rachel kramer bussel Subject: Re: Grace of my heart and at the very end you can see Shawn Colvin in it, playing her guitar in the woods... It's supposedly a fictionalized account of Carole King's life. I recommend it... rachel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:23:20 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Raised on Snobbery (Parody) - --0__=4PAom0scPK2AsV9eGweVmulF7W01jMTLGA0PmsKkQBdzZzsjG6fB6OUR Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline OK, this is dedicated to all of you who think it's embarrassing to have these guys in your record collections... (All intended in good fun, of course) Bob NP: The Boss, "Out In The Street" Raised on Snobbery (I won't insult you by telling you what this is to the tune of) I was sittin in my room, in my private retreat, I was playing Michael Jackson I was groovin - --0__=4PAom0scPK2AsV9eGweVmulF7W01jMTLGA0PmsKkQBdzZzsjG6fB6OUR Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1257 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable =92 to the beat A little bit of "Beat It" and some PYT, Along comes a JMDLer and says to me, "Turn off that crap that you=92re playing, you know, it=92s a shame, i= t=92s a shame, it=92s a cryin=92 shame" Look at that Joker, dude just has way too much fame Here=92s some Joni , put it on now, Can=92t you clearly see that I=92m such a highbrow In case you couldn=92t tell it I was raised on snobbery.... Well, I had a lot of records once, I used to play them all with glee, I remember those days, brings such happy recollections to me, First I bought the Carpenters, and then Charlie Rich But I can=92t stand him now, the son of a bitch =91Cause Joni=92s all I=92m playing I was raised on Snobbery So throw away America, your Barry White, The Monkees, Yaz, You can only spin your Joni, well maybe I=92ll allow some Jazz Hey where ya going, why all the strife, You really think variety is still the spice of life? You need to be like I am, I was raised on snobbery... =20 --------------------------------------------------------------=20 The information transmitted is intended only for the person or=20 entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential =20 and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended =20 recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any =20 use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, =20 reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message=20 is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact =20 the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any =20 views expressed in this message are those of the individual =20 sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the =20 company. =20 --------------------------------------------------------------=20 =20 = - --0__=4PAom0scPK2AsV9eGweVmulF7W01jMTLGA0PmsKkQBdzZzsjG6fB6OUR-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:48:54 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: RE: Raised on Snobbery (Parody) Bob? uh-oh. I think Bob was cut off mid-parody... - -----Original Message----- From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com [mailto:Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Sent: Friday, September 17, 1999 1:23 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Raised on Snobbery (Parody) OK, this is dedicated to all of you who think it's embarrassing to have these guys in your record collections... (All intended in good fun, of course) Bob NP: The Boss, "Out In The Street" Raised on Snobbery (I won't insult you by telling you what this is to the tune of) I was sittin in my room, in my private retreat, I was playing Michael Jackson I was groovin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:52:22 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: RE: Raised on Snobbery (Parody) oops - sorry if I panicked For some reason my mail server (or someone's) sent me the rest of this as an attachment. Bob - this is HILARIOUS!!! We HAVE to do this as a group at the next JoniFest (as a video, complete w/old records, etc.) Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:46:31 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Raised on Snobbery (2nd Try) - --0__=y8PoqWeTvcHEeVY4JELtvXEubGTaEcQMTQA3nUDDkQHb87Zepdvg9h9R Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline We'll try this again... Raised on Snobbery I was sittin in my room, in my private retreat, I was playing Michael Jackson I was groovin - --0__=y8PoqWeTvcHEeVY4JELtvXEubGTaEcQMTQA3nUDDkQHb87Zepdvg9h9R Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1257 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable =92 to the beat A Little bit of =93Beat It=94 and some PYT, Along comes a JMDLer and says to me, =93Turn off that crap that you=92re playing, you know, it=92s a shame,= it=92s a shame, it=92s a cryin=92 shame=94 Look at that Joker, dude just has way too much fame Here=92s some Joni =96 put it on now, Can=92t you clearly see that I=92m such a highbrow In case you couldn=92t tell it I was raised on snobbery=85 Well, I had a lot of records once, I used to play them all with glee, I remember those days, brings such happy recollections to me, First I bought the Carpenters, and then Charlie Rich But I can=92t stand him now, the son of a bitch =91Cause Joni=92s all I=92m playing I was raised on Snobbery So throw away America, Barry White, The Monkees, Yaz, You can only spin your Joni, well maybe I=92ll allow some Jazz Hey where ya going, why all the strife, You really think variety is still the spice of life? You need to be like I am, I was raised on snobbery=85 =20 --------------------------------------------------------------=20 The information transmitted is intended only for the person or=20 entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential =20 and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended =20 recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any =20 use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, =20 reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message=20 is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact =20 the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any =20 views expressed in this message are those of the individual =20 sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the =20 company. =20 --------------------------------------------------------------=20 =20 = - --0__=y8PoqWeTvcHEeVY4JELtvXEubGTaEcQMTQA3nUDDkQHb87Zepdvg9h9R-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:06:54 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: RE: Raised on Snobbery (Parody) On Friday, September 17, 1999 6:52 PM, Anne Sandstrom [SMTP:asandstrom@allaire.com] wrote: > oops - sorry if I panicked > > For some reason my mail server (or someone's) sent me the rest of this as an > attachment. I'm afraid it's worse than that - it's Bob's mail *software* that does this. As to why... well that's a mystery. Bob: I guess you need to take a hard stare at your e-mail program. Sowweeee.... Good parody though :) - --Chris Chris Marshall Secure Systems Integration Ltd Web: http://www.secure-si.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 7970 459 553 Fax: +44 (0) 1954 201 741 E-mail: chris@secure-si.co.uk PGP key: http://www.secure-si.co.uk/chris/pubkey.txt Fingerprint: 49F7 5132 C599 6ADC 47E7 844E A612 3F53 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:26:01 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Jonifest Pics/ Joni Photo Zee gut doctor zed: <> Veddy eenteresting point, Herr Doctor... It koot be zey ver sinking about "Ve ah stahdust, ve ah GOLTEN"...? Und zey too are tryink to get back to zee gahden... Zinzerely, Your humble azzociate. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:59:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Sting's Snubbing (SJC) I think it's kind of job requirement for artists' agents to be jerks -- I greatly admire anyone who can put up with them for any amount of time -- and though I love Joni and her music, I wouldn't touch trying to put together a tribute collection like this with a tem-foot pole. Don Rowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:53:27 PDT From: "David Greenspoon" Subject: BOHO Dance Hi!!! Does any one know what the word BOHO from BOHO Dance in HOSL means??? I have look in dictionaries, encyclopedias, all to no avail. the only thing I can think of is that the word Boho is an abbreviation of Bohemian, which would make sense. Any thoughts??? Yours David ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:05:12 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Good vs. Evil (vljc) In a message dated 9/17/99 11:19:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, JaneneO@mji.com writes: << The topic of conversation was why Jews do not approve of tattoos. >> My girlfriend is 26, not Jewish and has a tattoo or two. She was surprised to hear my explanation that Jews do not get tattoos because it reminds us of the numbers on the arms of our Holocaust victims and survivors. I don't know if there is another reason besides that, but that one has always been good enough for me. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:15:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: BOHO Dance It's Manhattan shorthand for Bohemian. Like SoHo, Tribeca,etc. Jerry On Fri, 17 Sep 1999, David Greenspoon wrote: > Hi!!! > > Does any one know what the word BOHO from BOHO Dance in HOSL means??? I > have look in dictionaries, encyclopedias, all to no avail. the only thing I > can think of is that the word Boho is an abbreviation of Bohemian, which > would make sense. Any thoughts??? > > Yours > David > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:22:21 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: Good vs. Evil (vljc) About Jews and tattoos, I am sure tattoos are forbidden in the Old Testament. One of books of the Pentateuch condemns "marks on the skin." A dear Jewish friend of mine, a wise and wonderful lady, joked one time that the Holocaust tattoos are a good reason, that the Scripture is an even better reason, but the REAL reason Jewish women don't get tattoos is that it's too hard to find shoes to match. Harper Lou (Out of his Irish element, but hey -- Kind David was a harp player, too!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:26:24 EDT From: Marksa973@aol.com Subject: Re: little green... I'm not sure if this has come up before, but.... I have a CD that includes Joni singing "Little Green" live. I believe it was from one of the appearances at the Second Fret coffeehouse in Philadelphia in the late 60s. At the very end of the song, she sings "Kelly Green, be a gypsy dancer." It was the first time I had heard her use "Kelly" in the song. It's not on the "Blue" album version. Was this short for Kilauren? Did she name the baby before she gave it up for adoption? I always loved the song and didn't even realize what it was about until I learned the whole story about Kilauren. Does anyone know? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:34:06 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: little green... You asked: "Do y'all think she has forgiven herself?" IMO, yes - because she now knows where her daughter is, knows she was cared for by a loving family and has turned out all right. I think it would be very difficult to imagine that your child may have ended up with people who had abused her or neglected her. And now Joni has this new relationship not just with her daughter, but with grandchildren as well. That has to be a balm to soothe her sorrows. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:45:00 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: little green... You know me, whenever adoption is discussed I become a bit wild-eyed. Since my daughter reunited with her bio family, I've found that I cannot even listen to this song without crying. But I wonder what Joni would have done had she found herself pregnant AFTER Blue was recorded, and had found success. Do you think she would have made a different plan for a baby? Terry In a message dated 9/17/1999 9:18:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << You're quite right - I don't know how she could get through this without crying all the way through it - God, my eyes are misting over just thinking about it. How terribly sad it must be to have to give up your child, even if you know it's probably the best thing you could do for him or her. I can't even imagine having to part with one of my kids. And then, within a short while, to suddenly come into fortune and fame and to think if she had had that a year or so ago, she wouldn't have had to give up her daughter. It's too painful. >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:36:20 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Raised on Snobbery (2nd Try) I am sputtering so hard I can barely type...I'm absolutely rolling. Thank you, King - all together now let's sing it loud and proud - LOL >Hey where ya going, why all the strife, >You really think variety is still the spice of life? >You need to be like I am, I was raised on snobbery. Kakki NP: Santana - Everybody's Everything "Dig this sound and spin around and round and round"...."Sing it loud time for you to all get down" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:17:14 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: BOHO Dance You asked: "Does any one know what the word BOHO from BOHO Dance in HOSL means???" I'm pretty sure you're right - I believe it does mean "bohemian." If I'm not mistaken Joni said something about this being based on the writings of Tom Wolfe (Bonfire of the Vanities and other things.) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:23:57 -0400 From: Janene Otten Subject: RE: Good vs. Evil (vljc) He may have played the harp but did he drink Harp? That's the burning question that Irish inquiring minds want to know. I think Harp should be kosher for Passover. Reverend Vinnie, can you become Rabbi Vinnie for a moment and give us your input? Beer should be part of the Seder. my .02 np: Seal (#1) - -----Original Message----- From: Louis Lynch [mailto:Louis.Lynch@wonderware.com] Sent: Friday, September 17, 1999 3:22 PM To: 'IVPAUL42@aol.com'; JaneneO@mji.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: Good vs. Evil (vljc) About Jews and tattoos, I am sure tattoos are forbidden in the Old Testament. One of books of the Pentateuch condemns "marks on the skin." A dear Jewish friend of mine, a wise and wonderful lady, joked one time that the Holocaust tattoos are a good reason, that the Scripture is an even better reason, but the REAL reason Jewish women don't get tattoos is that it's too hard to find shoes to match. Harper Lou (Out of his Irish element, but hey -- Kind David was a harp player, too!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:39:54 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: little green... You "wonder what Joni would have done had she found herself pregnant AFTER Blue was recorded, and had found success. Do you think she would have made a different plan for a baby?" I would say so. I believe this was a very difficult decision for her to make. She had no money and no prospects at the time - and, of course, having a child out of wedlock was still such a taboo thing back then - that I think she did it out of desperation and wanting the best for the child. Ultimately an unselfish act. When this story first came out, it was front-page news in the Toronto Star and there was stuff in it for weeks afterwords. I remember reading one letter to the editor that really pissed me off - this nasty, nasty woman said "Joni Mitchell lost the right to her child when she gave her up." This would likely be the same kind of person who is anti-abortion, anti-sex education, anti-anything risky. Not that I'm advocating anything here - I just find it amazing that people can be so quick to point the finger at others for their "faults" and "sins". If they never got into any kind of trouble themselves, it's because they either never took any kind of risk, or were very lucky. To err is human, to forgive, divine. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:32:04 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: little green... You said: "I have a CD that includes Joni singing "Little Green" live. I believe it was ..."Kelly Green, be a gypsy dancer." ... Was this short for Kilauren? Did she name the baby before she gave it up for adoption?" Yes, she named the baby Kelly. The Gibbs who adopted the baby called her Kilauren without, as far as I'm aware, knowing that she had been named Kelly - - which is interesting because the names are close. I'm not sure how long Joni had her before she had to give her up for adoption, but i think it was at least for a few months. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:06:42 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: RE: BOHO Dance On Friday, September 17, 1999 9:17 PM, Catherine McKay [SMTP:cateri@hotmail.com] wrote: > I'm pretty sure you're right - I believe it does mean "bohemian." If I'm not > mistaken Joni said something about this being based on the writings of Tom > Wolfe (Bonfire of the Vanities and other things.) That was my thought too. However, having seen "Rent" a few times (and listened to the sountrack more than a few times) I recall the line:- "When the BoHo boys are gone, the power mysteriously comes on" Which got me to thinking. Rent is set in New York, where SoHo means South Of HOuston and NoHo means North Of, perhaps BoHo means something in, or refers to, New York. Any ideas or inventions? :-) Of course, I could just be ranting insanely. - --Chris Chris Marshall Secure Systems Integration Ltd Web: http://www.secure-si.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 7970 459 553 Fax: +44 (0) 1954 201 741 E-mail: chris@secure-si.co.uk PGP key: http://www.secure-si.co.uk/chris/pubkey.txt Fingerprint: 49F7 5132 C599 6ADC 47E7 844E A612 3F53 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:15:21 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Grace of my heart rachel kramer bussel wrote: > and at the very end you can see Shawn Colvin in it, playing her guitar in > the woods... > > It's supposedly a fictionalized account of Carole King's life. I recommend > it... > > It starts out like Carole King, then does a little Brian Wilson thing, and ends up as the Didi Cohn/Debbie Boone Light up my life bit. The movie misfires a lot of places but at least it has ambitions and is well worth a $2.00 rental fee. Someone else sings Man from Mars in the movie; I thought it was Shawn Colvin singing but Gina once gently corrected me on that. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:29:10 -0400 (EDT) From: lmoneil@webtv.net (Pepsi Cola) Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V4 #413 Hello... I'm a newcomer to the discussion group ... 47 year old female, Orlando, Fl. I've been reading the discussion for some time and have contacted a few of you when you made me laugh or gave me something I needed ... but I need to feel a part. I've been a loner for a long time ... Joni ... my sister. There's so much I'd like to share with you but I'm sure that my feelings are very much the same one that yall have had ... cause in reading the discussion ... I have finally felt like I belong here. Been Joni freak since 1971. Joni was adopted, her name was Roberta Anderson, and I was too, adopted that is ... my name given to me from my mother was Henrietta Louise ... so I could identify there with Joni's sense of looking for love and where she belonged. I could identify with her relationship with her father and mother ... her relationship with her lovers ... she was always singing and writing about me and my feelings... it kept me sane. It's kept me from feeling totally isolated in this world. I wrote her a lettter in 1975 (Hissiing of Summer Lawns era) when she lived in Belair. The letter came back undeliverable ... and I was very unhappy. I still have it and it is still unopened ... I don't even remember what I wrote. Well ... I can't make this too long ... but when she sang about wanting a child ... I would ache so badly because I did too ... something to have ties to and to call mine. Then I found out she had a baby and gave it away to be adopted ... I was blown away. Then not too long ago ... I found out that her daughter's name was Lauren Killian(?) (I can't remember the other name) but ... I was dumbfounded .... shocked ... because my adopted name is Lauren. There are so many coincidences and I feel like she is my family ... she is in my heart cause she has made the most profound impact on my life. I see and feel the painting she sings. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:57:30 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Good vs. Evil (vljc) Janene Otten wrote of David: > He may have played the harp but did he drink Harp? That's the burning > question that Irish inquiring minds want to know. He was probably doing something like that when he danced naked before the people of Israel. > I think Harp should be > kosher for Passover. If there is a K in a circle on your bottle, it is. > Reverend Vinnie, can you become Rabbi Vinnie for a > moment and give us your input? Tattoos are forbidden as defilement of the body, I believe, in the levitical holiness code (which of course is in the book of Leviticus). But it might not be in Leviticus, but I am quite sure it is in the Torah (the Penteteuch, the first five books) somewhere. A quick scan of my concordance and Torah index did not yield any results but I can keep looking. While bodily defilment might be the obstensive reason for the prohibition, it was undoubtely a reaction to tattooing by the religious cults in Palestine and elsewhere, a tattoo being a symbol of membership in such cult or devotion to some god who was not YHWH. > Beer should be part of the Seder. > my .02 Just keep it at .02 for anything higher in the blood level you are getting close to a DWI, OUIL, or other charge. Oh, you mean 2¢ worth... sorry. A Yom Kippur tip: Yom Kippur begins sundown on Sunday the 20th. On Monday at sundown, every Jewish restaurant in the world will be filled with people who have ended their 24 fast, so the best cooks/chefs will be in the kitchen. Wait about 6 hours after sundown... rember these folks haven't eaten for 24 hours... wait about six hours and when the rush is past, that's when to go to a Jewsih restuarant. These are little tihings you learn growing up in a diverse environment like Chicago... (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:17:16 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Chuck The Rev gave me permission to forward this: From: Vince Lavieri I hold in my hand "The Peaceful Sound" by Chuck Mitchell, a 33 1/3 rpm on a 45-sized disk, sung in English and Russian. (Chuck of course studied Russian in college.) In the jacket it mentions "He was once married to songwriter Joni Mitchell." It was mailed to me by Mary Mitchell, (Chuck's mom) and that reminds me I need to write to her. I do not imply I have any type of relationship with the Mitchells; it was that I was once in the newspaper a lot in the anti-nuclear movement days and Mary Mitchell liked what I was doing... and was trying to do some record promotion! (the Rev) Vince ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:47:49 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Subject: Re: Sting's Snubbing and Sting's manager(SJC) From: "Nicholas Bates" Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:33:59 +1000 Apparently having a tough, take no prisoners kind of manager can be very useful for an artist. It's a case of "well I'd love to have, but my manager just never passed it on" etc. Copeland has been Sting's manager for a thousand years so he knows exactly how he operates. My respect for his (Sting's) talent has certainly been diluted by the number of appalling sound tracks and duets with dubious talents that he has participated in. And now turning down our Joan - what more can I say! Seems like the making of the tribute album would have made a great documentary! And the question of just what is a tribute album is clearly to the fore here. Is it a collection of covers by the top selling artists of the day (Celine and the Dave Matthews band) or a genuine tribute by your peers (or a bit of both)? Of course it would be great to see JM reach a younger audience but she has come this far without too many visible signs of compromise...... Nicholas (guilty of lurking) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:50:31 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Chuck/Boho/Kelly/er...etc.... Les wrote: >PS - Have you cleaned your room today? Aw, mom, do I *have* to??? And someone (sorry!) wrote: >Does any one know what the word BOHO from BOHO Dance in HOSL means??? It comes from a Tom Wolfe essay, meaning bohemian, or aspiring bohemian. And Marksa973@aol.com.. >Kelly...Was this short for Kilauren? >Did she name the baby before she gave it up for adoption? Yes, she named the baby Kelly. I'm not sure, but I think Kilauren was named by her adoptive parents, maybe not even knowing about the name "Kelly"? And finally, JulieZW wrote: >ps. One thing though, what's all this attention to penis size? Do >"small-penis" men obsess about their penis size **all day long?** Clearly a subject I am unqualified to discuss. Have a good weekend, everybody! :) ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:53:09 -0400 (EDT) From: lmoneil@webtv.net (Pepsi Cola) Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V4 #415 I've been reading on and on ... the discussion and come to the part about Joni giving away her baby ... oh ... I'm crying right now ... for so long I thought she might be my mother ... but the age difference didn't work ... she was my mother talking to me .... crying tonight and feeling a lot better ... because it's okay. And Joni would be proud to have me as a daughter ... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:54:08 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: little green... In a message dated 99-09-17 15:48:07 EDT, TerryM2442@aol.com writes: << But I wonder what Joni would have done had she found herself pregnant AFTER Blue was recorded, and had found success. Do you think she would have made a different plan for a baby? >> i wonder if she would have been able to record blue if she had not had the experience with her child? the two seem to go hand in hand. if she had found success first, i do think she would have kept the baby. from what i have read, she seemed frightened and overwhelmed at 18 and no money and no support systems. her story reminds me of the saying...show me a hero and i'll show you a tragedy. adoption is a wonderful thing. a miracle system that allows life to move ahead even in the worse circumstances. ss ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:27:44 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: little green... In a message dated 9/17/1999 4:47:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << Do you think she would have made a different plan for a baby?" I would say so. I believe this was a very difficult decision for her to make. She had no money and no prospects at the time - and, of course, having a child out of wedlock was still such a taboo thing back then >> Though it's ludicrous of me to assume that I would have any idea what she would have done given different circumstances, my guess would be that she possibly would have still gone ahead with her adoption plan anyway. Joni is/was a free spirit- a brilliant and creative person- who would have found it very difficult to be tied down raising a child, regardless of her financial situation. No judgment here, just my take on it. She could have chosen ( I'm guessing here too) to have had a child when she was financially secure, but didn't. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:39:09 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: was joni adopted? someone today wrote that joni was an adopted child. have i been missing something? wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:45:50 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Raised on Snobbery (Parody) hilarious! great job, king bob!!! wallyk - -----Original Message----- De: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Para: joni@smoe.org Fecha: Viernes 17 de Septiembre de 1999 11:46 Asunto: Raised on Snobbery (Parody) > > >OK, this is dedicated to all of you who think it's embarrassing to have >these guys in your record collections... >(All intended in good fun, of course) > >Bob > >NP: The Boss, "Out In The Street" > >Raised on Snobbery (I won't insult you by telling you what this is to the >tune of) > >I was sittin in my room, in my private retreat, >I was playing Michael Jackson I was groovin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:57:59 -0500 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Joni quoted in Nickelodeon Cartoon!!!!! My five-year old was watching "Hey Arnold" Nicktoons on Nickelodeon. I was half-watching so I don't know the whole jist of this........but Arnold and his friend had played hookie at school and seems like everywhere they went they were running into someone they knew. I think (only half-watching while doing something else) it was when they decided to go back to school because it was too much stress trying to hide from adults that knew them that Arnold's Friend says "A free man in Paris unfettered and alive". Arnold says, "huh?" Then Arnold's friend says, "I heard it on a hippie record". I was so excited by this Joni quote!!!!! I'm going to have to hope they rerun this.........tape it........and send it in for the next Video Tree. Too cool! Anyone else catch this? Julie or Terry? Or any of you childless people who watch cartoons (I know you're out there!). Laura (WARNING: FREEBIE BELOW (NJC from this point on!!) Call 1-877-TRY-KSKP. I called expecting only a sample. Recorded message said to receive your sample, .55 cent coupon, and 10 MINUTE PHONE CARD. Automated system enter in only your Phone #. Hope this is still good. Could only call once from my home phone as it remembered I had already called. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:08:39 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: little green... In a message dated 9/17/1999 9:18:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << You're quite right - I don't know how she could get through this without crying all the way through it - God, my eyes are misting over just thinking about it. How terribly sad it must be to have to give up your child, even if you know it's probably the best thing you could do for him or her. I can't even imagine having to part with one of my kids. And then, within a short while, to suddenly come into fortune and fame and to think if she had had that a year or so ago, she wouldn't have had to give up her daughter. It's too painful. >> ....and it goes beyond that. Didn't she have her daughter for almost a year befor giving her up for adoption? THAT would be next to impossible! No wonder she wrote such a cruel song about Chuck Mitchell...all those promises and then nothing! I had a king surely hits the head right on the nail! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:12:47 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: little green... In a message dated 9/17/1999 10:07:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluor.com writes: << And now that they're reconnected, while there's the joy of that reunion, it's bittersweet because it's a constant reminder of the lost years of the relationship, like you said. >> Well you cannot take back the years but you shouldn't live with regret either. She has found her daughter and that is all that matters. She is a very happy and lucky mother! Cat..... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:21:38 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Photos In a message dated 9/17/1999 11:51:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jzw@visint.com writes: << Ashara, I will send you copies of what i got. >Anyone else, I will get them scanned and send them to the >JoniMitchellfans@onelist.com. HOwever, if fear has suddenly taken over your >body (pics in wigs???) let me know and I won't share them with the world just >our little list! >Catgirl >> btw does anyone have a scanner that I may send these pics to for scanning? anyone, anyone?? Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:21:24 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Photos - --part1_987e7ba9.25144314_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/17/1999 11:51:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jzw@visint.com writes: << At 12:30 AM 9/17/99 EDT, you wrote: >Hello gang! >I have some pics that are very incriminating!!!! All those gorgeous Joni >wanna-be's parading around. Ashara, I will send you copies of what i got. >Anyone else, I will get them scanned and send them to the >JoniMitchellfans@onelist.com. HOwever, if fear has suddenly taken over your >body (pics in wigs???) let me know and I won't share them with the world just >our little list! >Catgirl >ps I also have a bunch of shots of Ashara's dog Pippin with all these Joni >item on her.....hmmmmmm...... >> - --part1_987e7ba9.25144314_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (rly-zc03.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.3]) by air-zc03.mail.aol.com (v60.28) with ESMTP; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:51:58 -0400 Received: from doit.pgh.net (doit.pgh.net [209.166.191.134]) by rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (v61.9) with ESMTP; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:51:47 -0400 Received: from itjfvkli (dap-209-114-167-81.pm4-1-s5.eth.pgh.pa.stargate.net [209.114.167.81]) by doit.pgh.net (8.9.0/8.8.7/PGH.NET-02) with SMTP id LAA25231 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:51:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990916234223.009fc360@doit.pgh.net> X-Sender: jzw@doit.pgh.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:42:23 -0400 To: CaTGirl627@aol.com From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: Re: Photos In-Reply-To: <3e9283c9.25131df8@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 12:30 AM 9/17/99 EDT, you wrote: >Hello gang! >I have some pics that are very incriminating!!!! All those gorgeous Joni >wanna-be's parading around. Ashara, I will send you copies of what i got. >Anyone else, I will get them scanned and send them to the >JoniMitchellfans@onelist.com. HOwever, if fear has suddenly taken over your >body (pics in wigs???) let me know and I won't share them with the world just >our little list! >Catgirl >ps I also have a bunch of shots of Ashara's dog Pippin with all these Joni >item on her.....hmmmmmm...... Im sorry bout that Catgirl. I didn't realize that that was your camera. Would you let me know when you get the photos scanned. I love to see them. Thanks Julie - --part1_987e7ba9.25144314_boundary-- ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #194 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?