From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #190 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, September 14 1999 Volume 01 : Number 190 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: The geezers of jmdl ["Wally Kairuz" ] Old Age [Thunderthumbs ] Re: The geezers of jmdl [catman ] Re: Old Age [catman ] Re: Old Age [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Old Age -Reply [LOREN CARTER ] ROTR [Martin Giles ] Re: Atty May Setlist Info [Heather Galli ] Instrument Bash ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Old Age -Reply ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Re: Converting the young ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: check out this soundtrack. [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Old Age [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Old Age [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Joni & Michael Hedges (tunings) [Howard Wright ] Graham Nash [Leslie Mixon ] Re: Atty May Setlist Info [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] ani on the joni interview [Bounced Message ] Re: ROTR [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Joni & Michael Hedges (tunings) [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Instrument Bash [Don Rowe ] Re: Old Age [Don Rowe ] Re: Old Age [catman ] Re: Old Age ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Old Age [catman ] Re: Old Age [jan gyn ] Re: Old Age [catman ] Re: Old Age [catman ] floyd [Jerry Notaro ] Age Differences in "Strange Boy" ... [Don Rowe ] Joni moods [Martin Giles ] Re: floyd ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Age Differences in "Strange Boy" ... ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: floyd [catman ] Re: Joni moods [catman ] Re: floyd ["Kakki" ] Re: floyd [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Instrument Bash(ing) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Instrument Bash(ing) ["Catherine McKay" ] Gym Joni [catman ] Re: Instrument Bash(ing) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: floyd [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Instrument Bash(ing) [jan gyn ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:18:56 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: The geezers of jmdl that's cool, colin! honestly, i always have a hard time remembering that you're actually a year older than i. i don't mean you sound stupid or immature, but to me you always come on as a teenager or someone in his early 20's at most! somebody at the jonifest told me they thought i was in my fifties by the way i write. wallyK - -----Original Message----- De: catman Para: joni@smoe.org Fecha: Lunes 13 de Septiembre de 1999 07:58 Asunto: Re: The geezers of jmdl >You're older than me then!!! I'd be lucky if I was 14. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 05:35:20 -0400 From: Thunderthumbs Subject: Old Age With all this talk of age, and age-related things... Here's some of my thoughts about "old" age, and age related issues that may be of an interest. I graduated college in 1997 and I'm twenty-five. Twenty-six next month. All of my life up until two years ago has been comprised of peer groups and interacting with people my age. When I graduated and went into the workforce, I started out in the new home construction field. I'm in the legal profession now, but... in these past two+ years (and even now) I've met one or two women my age- none of which worked in my business of construction which seemed to be dominated largely by white heterosexual males between the ages of 30-55. Maybe that's an over generalization, but... There were no women my age in that business, and seeing how I spent much time at my job, I basically never met or had any chance to interact with them. This is still a very much current problem in the legal field for me now. I know 25 (or so) year old women exist, but where, I don't know... In that/this time, the only women I've had any interaction with are older than I am- somewhere in the 30+ range. I think that since I've not been able to interact with girls my age, that in that vaccum, I've begun to find the "older women" attractive. I even find a few that are pushing 50 are attractive. Not in the sense that "oh you look nice today" but "wow, she really looks nice" kind of a thing. I am not sure if this is right or good, but it seems to happen. Two+ years ago in college, I had a very serious girlfriend who was 20 at the time. She broke up with me two+ years ago for reasons I still don't know and I haven't gone on a date since. Not that I wouldn't like to date, but I can't seem to find anyone. Anyways... at that time, I couldn't conceive of finding an "older woman" attractive as I do now. It's a ridiculous thing. I have no interation with girls my age, and I suppose to fill the gaps I find the 30+ (most between 35-45) attractive. This can go nowhere. Personally, if I had a choice, I wouldn't date anyone younger than 21, and nobody older than 29. When you start looking at the older women, they're looking for things in a mate that at 25 going on 26 that I can't possibly be or provide. Not that I'm not responsible and mature etc..., but I simply don't have the level of career, achieved proffesional/job status and financial stability and intangeable "other" that becomes increasingly important to women when they get older. I'm kind of stuck between worlds. It's rather interesting and maybe even slightly uncomfortable to see a soccer mom in the Caravan or the 35 year old business professional, and think of her in anything approaching romantic terms. I have nothing to offer them. I've seen it all too often to deny that women tend to date older guys, not much younger ones. The girls that would find me to be the "older guy" they'd like to date (if that even) are those still "away at school". In an age where there is such a value placed on, and an of envy of youth (and I'm still within spitting distance of that coveted age that many people wish they were), how ironic it is that I am wishing I was older to get what I feel is missing from my life simply because I have little interaction with those women my age. It's like you get to a point and say "Is this as good as it gets?" Just like the movie says... Clearly if being twentysomething out of college is a great thing (and I've heard that from MANY older people who wish they were- like I should be "living it up- " Yeah right), I'm really missing the boat on all accounts. The flipside of their comments would be that being thirtysomething, or fourty something would not be as good or desirable? If this is true, and I'm not having a good time in my twenties, makes me wonder what will happen in my thirties and fourties? If now is good, I'm not sure I want to be around for the less than good. Age is an interesting topic indeed... I've never seen The Graduate, but damn if I'm not tempted to watch it. -Brad ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:54:10 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: The geezers of jmdl Wally Kairuz wrote: > that's cool, colin! honestly, i always have a hard time remembering that > you're actually a year older than i. actually it seems I am 2 years older than you! > i don't mean you sound stupid or > immature, but to me you always come on I didn't know I came on at all! I didn't mean to flirt > as a teenager or someone in his early > 20's at most! arrested development I guess! Only wish my body followed suit. > somebody at the jonifest told me they thought i was in my > fifties by the way i write. who was that? I'll beat them for you if you wish. How rude! Still I am sure seeing you put them in the right decade. A child of the 40's right? > wallyK > -----Original Message----- > De: catman > Para: joni@smoe.org > Fecha: Lunes 13 de Septiembre de 1999 07:58 > Asunto: Re: The geezers of jmdl > > >You're older than me then!!! I'd be lucky if I was 14. > > - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:57:33 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Old Age Brad wrote: I even find a few that are pushing 50 are attractive. Quick, get the dcotor. Women pushing 50? You need help. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:43:02 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Old Age In a message dated 9/14/99 4:24:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ddietz@erols.com writes: << When you start looking at the older women, they're looking for things in a mate that at 25 going on 26 that I can't possibly be or provide. Not that I'm not responsible and mature etc..., but I simply don't have the level of career, achieved proffesional/job status and financial stability and intangeable "other" that becomes increasingly important to women when they get older. >> Ahem...speaking up as an "older" woman, (my god, when did THAT happen!), I think that you are a bit right, but a bit on the wrong track, logic-wise. I've been single for 5 years and things like "career, achieved professional/job status and financial stability" are less and less important to me, the older I get. I know for myself what attracts me more than anything else are the intangibles: a sense of humor, intelligence, kindness and a good soul. These are qualities that mean more to me than a man's job status or bank account. As a matter of fact, those things are very, very secondary. An openness to personal growth and a comfort with sexuality are also big top tens on my list. More than anything else, I look to grow as two people together rather than two combined bank accounts. (although thoughtful gifts are always welcomed!). To me, it sounds as though you are isolated in the workday world. I know that it sounds very Ann Lander-ish, but the best way to expose yourself to a wide range of people, (woman included!), is to get yourself beyond that limited sphere and develop your outside interests, be they sports, (join a co-ed team, take lessons), altruistic, (volunteer your time), or religion, (church group, etc. etc.). What makes your twenties so "live it up," is less excitement junkie times and more the freedom to examine yourself and try out different life experiments without the added responsibilities of mortgages, kids and spouses. Get out there! Best, MG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:10:08 -0400 From: LOREN CARTER Subject: Re: Old Age -Reply I for one am now looking forward to the advancing years. When I was 31 I got my first (and so far only cavity!), my hair started to fall out, and there was an 18 year old woman who was smitten with me (and my wife just could not understand why....neither did I for the most part), but way back then I sure did feel old. Now that I'm 41 (42 in January) and recently diagnosed with MS, I am looking forward to the coming years. Let me explain....my neurologist explained to me that the data on MS is showing that the diesase "burns" itself out around 50-55 in most people. Since my case is not that severe, maybe my diagnosis at 41 means that I won't ever get into the really bad part of the disease (wheelchairs, walkers, stumbling, mumbling, etc.), so bring on the big 5-0. Right around that time I can start volunteering to coach my son's little league teams, and be done with MS. I may be death, dumb, and blind to it all, but this hope gives me the strength to carry on. Now about older women, I've always been attracted to "older" women. My wife is 5 years older than I, my first wife was 9 years older, and my first experience was the mom of one of my friends. You never forget your first time. Damm this has been waaaaay tooooo revealing, so I'll shut my yap and sit down. Loren....... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:03:43 +0100 From: Martin Giles Subject: ROTR Bob wrote > NP: "Refuge of The Roads" from Tokyo '83 (I LOVE this show!) Huh? Wossat?? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:41:33 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: Atty May Setlist Info Inquiring minds want to know...... when can we get this on tape? Will it be included in a Tape Tree? Heather - who is bummed that Marian's performance of All Along The Watchtower is incomplete :-( >For those of you who are interested, the following is a list of what was >recorded at Atty May's Sunday afternoon and evening. > >Marian All Along The Watchtower (incomplete) >Paz Song For Sharon >Marian Yvette In English >Chuck Rainy Night House >Chuck Wichita Lineman >Chuck These Four Walls >Paz Love Puts On A New Face >Paz Just Like This Train >Marian Moon At The Window >Marian Number One >Marian Offnight Backstreet >Marian A Strange Boy >Marian BaranGrill >Marian Coyote >Paz Don't Let Me Be Lonely Tonight (JT) >Paz Chinese Cafe >Chuck, Kakki, Paz Southern Man (CSN) >Chuck, Kakki, Paz Wooden Ships (CSN) >Chuck, Kakki, Pearl, Paz Big Yellow Taxi (the first time today) >Chuck, Kakki, Pearl, Paz Peoples Parties (incomplete my fault) >Chuck, Kakki, Pearl, Rainy Night House >Paz In The Air Tonight (Phil Collins) >Paz Say GoodBye (Dave Matthews) >Paz, Chuck Guajira (Santana) >Paz and Chuck Hejira >Paz and Chuck Cherokee Louise >Chuck, Pearl, Kakki I Think I Understand >Chuck, Pearl, Kakki, Paz Circle Game >Paz, Kakki Shades of Scarlett Conquering >Paz, Kakki Another Star (Stevie Wonder) >Paz Building A Mystery (Sarah McLachlan) >Ensemble Love The One Your With (Stills) >Ensemble Long Time Gone (CSN incomplete) >Ensemble If I Needed Someone (Beatles) >Ensemble Big Yellow Taxi (one mo time) >Chuck + Guest Singer > from Blue Heaven Band Under The Boardwalk > > >Best wishes to all, > >Michael > >NP-WallyK leading the gang at the close of Joni Fest-Circle Game > >P.S. Les's DAT player caught all of WallyK's set and Brian Thomas + a >couple ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:40:51 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Instrument Bash >Jeez, I hate people that destroy musical instruments. That's so, like, > yesterday (yeah, yeah, it was yesterday.) Yes, but I hated them yesterday too! I used to say "Excuse me, have you finished with that?" (Not so much possessive as frightened I might be in the room when they actually did it!!). PaulC Talkin'boutmygggggeneration ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:30:38 -0400 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: Re: Old Age -Reply "Oh I am not old, I'm told, but I am not young and nothing can be done. Don't start my heart is a smoking gun. Oh and nothing can be done. Must I surrender with grace the things I loved when I was younger (Sweet embrace?) What do I do here with this hunger?" I'll be 42 in November and as far as I'm concerned these years of late have been my awakening. So I say in a good way: nothing can be done. - -Jules ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:04:11 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Converting the young Helen, you said, >in my pre-Joni days, it could have been a lot worse (since I >still >owned >the album "Tragedy" by the BeeGees)! Helen, I have a confession to make. I've got several BeeGees albums, (in vinyl) including the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack (as well as the Muppets' version, Sesame Street Fever). I think that is heading in the "classic" direction though, so it's almost respectable again. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:18:25 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: check out this soundtrack. mr_lovesaint@webtv.net wrote: > ok...perhaps i shouldn't admit it now-a-days, but i'm a robert > altman fan ( he did m.a.s.h. , the player, nashville among many other > great films). Shouldn't admit it? Why not? You have discriminating taste. He is one of our great director's. I always put Nashville on my top 5 list of best American films. Jerry np: The Weather Channel, what else?????????????? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:18:22 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Old Age Watch it, Catman. It may be a long, long way from Canada, but here's one woman almost pushing 50 who doesn't think it's too far to go to track you down and take - you - out! >Brad wrote: >I even find a few that are pushing >50 are attractive. > >Quick, get the dcotor. Women pushing 50? You need help. > > cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:24:59 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Old Age Colin said to Brad: <> Colin, this wasn't directed to me but I find it very offensive. Was it intended as a joke? It didn't come off like one. Why does he need help? Why can't women pushing 50 be attractive? I know it's common, especially in America, to believe that youth=beauty and vice versa, but it's certainly not a theory I subscribe to. I know many women in their 50's and up that are attractive AND also sexy as hell! There is a real beauty in a face that revels in the wrinkles of experience and the eyes of wisdom. Now women who are 50 and try to look and/or act 20 are embarrassing (same with men), but women who celebrate their years instead of trying to escape them? Very attractive indeed. One of the coolest things Joni said last year in Atlanta was in regards to turning 55...she commented that our President was the same age, and HE was still pretty frisky! (Or something to that effect). And believe me, plastic surgery or not or whatever, Joni is one attractive/beautiful/gorgeous lady!! She realizes and says that she's no longer an ingenue, sure doesn't mean she's not attractive... You should either apologize to Brad or explain what you meant by telling him that he needs help. Sounds to me like the only help he needs is hooking up with one of these "Sugar Mamas", after all, in the words of Benjamin Franklin, they don't tell, they don't swell, and they're grateful as hell! :~) Bob NP: Raised on Robbery ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:55:18 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Old Age In a message dated 9/14/99 7:22:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ddietz@erols.com writes: << I'm kind of stuck between worlds. It's rather interesting and maybe even slightly uncomfortable to see a soccer mom in the Caravan or the 35 year old business professional, and think of her in anything approaching romantic terms. I have nothing to offer them. I've seen it all too often to deny that women tend to date older guys, not much younger ones. >> I've no doubt there are plenty of women in their 30s who would be attracted to a guy your age, but if you "think" you've nothing to offer them, then you don't. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:58:20 +0100 (BST) From: Howard Wright Subject: Re: Joni & Michael Hedges (tunings) Anne Sandstrom wrote: >I recall reading that Michael Hedges was heavily influenced by Joni - no >surprise since he played in many different tunings. One of my favorite >Hedges tunings (he used it for Rickover's Dream) is CGDGBC. As far as I >know, Joni never used this tuning right? You're right. The closest Joni tuning to this is, I think, CGDGBD - i.e only the top string is different (D instead of C). Joni used this for quite a few songs (Trouble Child, Don't Interrupt the Sorrow, Cold Blue Steel, Sweet Bird). That Hedges tuning looks pretty interesting. Having a semitone (half-step) between the two top strings (B and C) must make for some juicy chords! I haven't got my notebook here to check, but I'm pretty sure that there are no Joni tunings that have two adjacent strings tuned a semitone apart like this. She's had strings a tone apart, or in unison, but never a semitone like this. I know hardly anything about Micheal Hedges, but his name has come up so many times on this list, and many of you seem to really love his music, so it's about time I checked him out I think! Howard ******************************************************* Howard.Wright@ed.ac.uk Every country has smart people in it. The trouble is : none of these smart people ever go into politics. - Frank Zappa ******************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:30:59 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: Graham Nash As the goddess says, "Woman she bounce back easy, but a man can break both his legs......" Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:00:40 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Atty May Setlist Info Michael rubs it in with: <> Wow, Michael, I don't know if I should say thanks or curse you for posting this wonderful set list that I DIDN'T HEAR!! Kinda makes me feel like a kid looking in the candy store window... Among everything else there, I can't wait to hear Marian's "Offnight Backstreet", "Strange Boy", oh heck, I can't wait to hear it all! AT least I've been able to start my mornings off with the wonderful European Coffee that Marian gave me! Starts my day with a taste of Jonifest '99... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:27:12 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: ani on the joni interview Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 05:30:56 -0400 From: BarBearUh hey folks. just got pointed to this intvw w/ani difranco in motherjones mag. what follows is the part that relates to the joni intvw a few months back. you can check out this URL for the article http://www.motherjones.com/interview/difranco.html MoJo Wire: You wrote a Los Angeles Times Magazine article on Joni Mitchell in which you noted that Mitchell was uppity, so the press painted her as a bitch, whereas Dylan, who was also uppity, was considered rebellious. Obviously, times have changed. So how do you think this uppity Ani DiFranco person has been portrayed? DiFranco: Well, I basically get stereotyped a lot in terms of being a girl and writing "chick" music for teenage girls or something. I think, if anything, the press kind of, because of my gender and my age, tends to kind of relegate my work to this sort of special-interest group. It's part of the cultural dynamic, I guess. MoJo Wire: Mitchell hated to be compared with other female musicians. Does that bother you too? DiFranco: Well no, actually. I don't hate being compared with female musicians. I don't mind that at all. I have no problem with seeing connections between women's work. On the other side of the coin, I hate it when people don't recognize the work of women as being universal, or having any import to the world at large, as opposed to men's work, which is generally tends to be seen as more universal -- men's writing about their own experience tends to be put in a broader context. MoJo Wire: In the LA Times piece you write, "Either you are a feminist or you are a sexist." DiFranco: Well, I just see a lot of people who are really terrified of the"f-word." A lot of women these days, a lot of young women don't want to call themselves feminists. You have this cheap, hideous "girl power" sort of fad, which I think is pretty benign at best, but at worst, I think it's a way of taking the politics out of feminism and making it some kind of fashion. I see a lot of young female performers -- and Joni is kind of an older guard -- who do not call themselves feminist, but would certainly believe in their own right to self-determination, and wouldn't want anybody to stop them from becoming themselves. They just refuse to recognize the relationship between their lives and those of other women, or feel any solidarity there. And that scares me, because I think if we can't use the word feminist, if it's some kind of taboo or dirty word, or means you're ugly, or you're angry, or you're not dateable [laughs], then you've just reduced the language by a whole concept. I just don't know any other word than "feminist" that describes a person who believes women are people. - -barbara np: me'shell ndegeocello, bitter (michael's right, it's fabulous) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:29:18 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: ROTR Martin awakens from his nap: <<> NP: "Refuge of The Roads" from Tokyo '83 (I LOVE this show!) Huh? Wossat??>> Martin, this is a recording that has been passed around here a little, the quality of the recording is superb, and personally I LOVE the song selection as she plays a lot of stuff from WTRF which I love and really rocks it up! Thanks again Patrick for sharing this with me! Additionally, the Japanese audience is VERY respectful, and while she is playing, they are practically silent. And it's taped from a radio broadcast as opposed to a tape player under someone's chair, so the sound is clear indeed! It's full of treasures and surprises...I'll be glad to make you a copy (tape), or you can wait for the next CD tree, I think it's going to be part of that. I'm equally excited to be getting a copy of Sydney '83 from yet another JMDL'er pal! Bob, self-professed Joni Junkie...needing a new fix :~) NP: Sonic Youth, "Skip Tracer" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:03:41 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Joni & Michael Hedges (tunings) Would Sire of Sorrow (DADF#GD) count? At 2:58 PM +0100 9/14/99, Howard Wright wrote: >That Hedges tuning looks pretty interesting. Having a semitone (half-step) >between the two top strings (B and C) must make for some juicy chords! I >haven't got my notebook here to check, but I'm pretty sure that there are >no Joni tunings that have two adjacent strings tuned a semitone apart like >this. She's had strings a tone apart, or in unison, but never a semitone >like this. ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:27:35 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: The geezers of jmdl oh my! sorry colin, i didn't mean that! what's the right expression? come across? wallyK - -----Original Message----- De: catman Para: Wally Kairuz CC: joni@smoe.org Fecha: Martes 14 de Septiembre de 1999 04:06 Asunto: Re: The geezers of jmdl >I didn't know I came on at all! I didn't mean to flirt > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:39:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Instrument Bash I wonder who they Think they are Smashing a perfectly Good guitar - -- John Hiatt I think that about covers it ... Don Rowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:09:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Old Age Hi Brad Believe it or not, you're reliving my life. I met my wife when she was 30 ... I was 22. I'd just started my first "real" job a couple of months ago and found myself in much the same position as you vis a vis "dating women my age." We married 3 years later. Well today we've been married 11 years and still alternate between utter joy and sheer bliss. You have absolutely NOTHING to worry about ... fact is, you're headed in the right direction -- so GO FOR IT! Sure, there will be some issues to deal with, but I think you will find that the "age gap" closes once a relationship grows. Now that I'm 36 and my wife is 44, those 8 years seem like nothing at all. Or rather, certainly insignificant compared to those days when we used to foolishly worry about it for no reason. I only have three snippets of advice for you: 1. Always show up on time. 2. Open yourself to intimacy. 3. Be prepared to court her for the rest of your life. You'll do fine! Don Rowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:11:08 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Old Age I can see i was too subtle! My reply to the young man was supposed to be gently sarcastic. ie I laughed at his innocent insulting of women pushing 50! Catherine McKay wrote: > Watch it, Catman. It may be a long, long way from Canada, but here's one > woman almost pushing 50 who doesn't think it's too far to go to track you > down and take - you - out! > > >Brad wrote: > >I even find a few that are pushing > >50 are attractive. > > > >Quick, get the dcotor. Women pushing 50? You need help. > > > > > > cateri@hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:16:10 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Old Age Oh, I knew that, Colin. I just couldn't resist the chance to get a few digs in! ;) >From: catman >To: Catherine McKay >CC: ddietz@erols.com, joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Old Age >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:11:08 +0100 > >I can see i was too subtle! My reply to the young man was supposed to be >gently sarcastic. ie I laughed at his innocent insulting of women pushing >50! > >Catherine McKay wrote: > > > Watch it, Catman. It may be a long, long way from Canada, but here's one > > woman almost pushing 50 who doesn't think it's too far to go to track >you > > down and take - you - out! > > > > >Brad wrote: > > >I even find a few that are pushing > > >50 are attractive. > > > > > >Quick, get the dcotor. Women pushing 50? You need help. > > > > > > > > > > cateri@hotmail.com > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > >-- >"It is better to be hated for what you are >than to be loved for what you are not." >TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS >http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk > > cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:15:52 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Old Age I thought 'quick, get the doctor' would have given it away but then I forget i have to spell things out really well for tranatlantic translation! See my response to catherine. 'they don't tell, they don't swell, and they're grateful as hell!' and this of course is pc and polite? ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:27:51 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Old Age >>Brad wrote: >>I even find a few that are pushing >>50 are attractive. Isn't Isabella Rossellini in this range? She's pretty haute. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:32:38 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Old Age I have always preferred the older man. And now that i qualify as an older man, i still do! I have found that men tend to look more attractive the older they they get. Not always of course. I sometimes find myself thinking an older man is attractive and then find out he isn't older! By attractive I am not usually talking about bodies. No it's in the eyes, the smile, the hands, the movement and the general demeanor. Of course if they have this and a great bod too..... Men who have it, imo: Kieth Carradine (no not the kung foo guy-his brother) Keanu Reeves(younger I know) Richard Geere(who i didn't think was till he went grey) Ed Harris George Clooney(although not at first cos I disliked his character in ER till they changed him) Jimmy Smits ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:38:19 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Old Age Catherine McKay wrote: > Oh, I knew that, Colin. I thought you would have, being Canadian. > I just couldn't resist the chance to get a few digs > in! > > > ;) > > >From: catman > >To: Catherine McKay > >CC: ddietz@erols.com, joni@smoe.org > >Subject: Re: Old Age > >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:11:08 +0100 > > > >I can see i was too subtle! My reply to the young man was supposed to be > >gently sarcastic. ie I laughed at his innocent insulting of women pushing > >50! > > > >Catherine McKay wrote: > > > > > Watch it, Catman. It may be a long, long way from Canada, but here's one > > > woman almost pushing 50 who doesn't think it's too far to go to track > >you > > > down and take - you - out! > > > > > > >Brad wrote: > > > >I even find a few that are pushing > > > >50 are attractive. > > > > > > > >Quick, get the dcotor. Women pushing 50? You need help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cateri@hotmail.com > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > >-- > >"It is better to be hated for what you are > >than to be loved for what you are not." > >TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS > >http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk > > > > > > cateri@hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:24:41 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: floyd Well its hundreds of miles away and it is already storming here in St. Petersburg. I hope Pearl is ok. Jerry np: Rachmaninoff: A Window In Time ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:49:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Age Differences in "Strange Boy" ... All this talk about dating around age differences has got me to thinking about "Strange Boy" -- which is Joni's take on the subject. So much in this song I have seen mirrored in my own life ... I can almost hear my wife thinking: Just when I think he's foolish and childish And I want him to be manly I catch my fool and my child Needing love and understanding Inside this section I think is revealed a younger person's easier "willingness to trust". As yet untouched, or not as badly damaged, by trial and tribulation, a younger person can show someone older an instinct they may have lost, or abandoned in favor of self-preservation brought on by life's inevitable heartbreaks and disappointments. At the very end, there's the seemingly literal: While the boarders were snoring Under crisp white sheets of curfew We were newly lovers then We were fire in the stiff-blue-haired-house-rules But Joni's long been bucking social trends and strictures ... could it be that this section is a metaphorical "so what" about moral prohibitions against dating outside one's age group? It sounds an awful lot like "same old sacred cow" to me, at least. If so, great! I think an older person's strength in a relationship with someone younger can go a long way to keeping both on a mutually supportive track. Just some chalkmarks in the rainstorm of a Tuesday! Don Rowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:33:07 +0100 From: Martin Giles Subject: Joni moods Colin wrote a few days ago.. >The weather here is cool and misty after a hot day. you can't see very >far and the stars and moon are obscured by the mist. tho cool it is also >balmy. >Which joni album/tracks would best suit this ? > I'm a bit behind in my reading so this has probably already been suggested but it had to be a Night Ride Home evening no? Martin. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:28:14 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: floyd That is one HELL of a big hurricane. And there's another one right behind it. Brace yourselves, all you east-coasters. Here in Toronto, the sun is shining, the sky is blue, and a gentle breeze is blowing - for now. The effects of hurricanes are usually felt here as well - - give us a day or two. >>Well its hundreds of miles away and it is already storming here in St. >Petersburg. I hope Pearl is ok. > >Jerry > >np: Rachmaninoff: A Window In Time > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:33:45 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Age Differences in "Strange Boy" ... Don, that's interesting. I never saw it as the older woman/younger man issue at all. I just thought the guy was really immature, but it was fun while it lasted, or that she was talking about something from her younger days (there is the boarding house to suggest that - I think Joni probably could have afforded to stay somewhere a little more high class than that by the time she wrote this song). How long have skateboards been around anyway? I could have sworn that the ones that were around when this song came out were the old- fashioned kind - basically just a piece of wood with roller skate wheels on the bottom, not something you could "weave" on. >All this talk about dating around age differences has >got me to thinking about "Strange Boy" -- which is >Joni's take on the subject. So much in this song I >have seen mirrored in my own life ... I can almost >hear my wife thinking: > >Just when I think he's foolish and childish >And I want him to be manly >I catch my fool and my child >Needing love and understanding > >Inside this section I think is revealed a younger >person's easier "willingness to trust". As yet >untouched, or not as badly damaged, by trial and >tribulation, a younger person can show someone older >an instinct they may have lost, or abandoned in favor >of self-preservation brought on by life's inevitable >heartbreaks and disappointments. > >At the very end, there's the seemingly literal: > >While the boarders were snoring >Under crisp white sheets of curfew >We were newly lovers then >We were fire in the stiff-blue-haired-house-rules > >But Joni's long been bucking social trends and >strictures ... could it be that this section is a >metaphorical "so what" about moral prohibitions >against dating outside one's age group? It sounds an >awful lot like "same old sacred cow" to me, at least. >If so, great! I think an older person's strength in a >relationship with someone younger can go a long way to >keeping both on a mutually supportive track. > >Just some chalkmarks in the rainstorm of a Tuesday! > >Don Rowe > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:42:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Joni In A Hurricane ... It's that time again, with Floyd looming massively just off the coast, to think of "Joni songs to play in a hurricane ..." My Secret Place Amelia Refuge of the Road Chelsea Morning Free Man In Paris Moon at the Window ... and of course, the songs NOT to play in a hurricane: Let The Wind Carry Me God Must Be A Boogie Man Beat Of Black Wings The Sire Of Sorrow Slouching Towards Bethlehem __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:15:29 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: floyd BA cancelled their flights to Florida today until further notice. Also flights from there to here. i do hop all our Florida residents are taking cover. Jerry Notaro wrote: > Well its hundreds of miles away and it is already storming here in St. > Petersburg. I hope Pearl is ok. > > Jerry > > np: Rachmaninoff: A Window In Time - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:16:03 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni moods i would agree. Martin Giles wrote: > Colin wrote a few days ago.. > > >The weather here is cool and misty after a hot day. you can't see very > >far and the stars and moon are obscured by the mist. tho cool it is also > >balmy. > >Which joni album/tracks would best suit this ? > > > > I'm a bit behind in my reading so this has probably already been > suggested but it had to be a Night Ride Home evening no? > > Martin. - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:21:00 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: floyd Nerd that I am, I've had the Weather Channel going since last night and have been very concerned about you all in Florida. It is very scary to see that big monster right off the coast. Pearl, Bev, Jerry and all - please let us know how you are. They say S.C. is going to get it, too - Bob, have you battened down the hatches? My friend in N.C. lost her entire backyard during Fran in '96. Take care you guys. Kakki Jerry wrote: > Well its hundreds of miles away and it is already storming here in St. > Petersburg. I hope Pearl is ok. > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:02:22 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: floyd Kakki wrote: > Nerd that I am, I've had the Weather Channel going since last night and have > been very concerned about you all in Florida. It is very scary to see that > big monster right off the coast. Pearl, Bev, Jerry and all - please let us > know how you are. They say S.C. is going to get it, too - Bob, have you > battened down the hatches? My friend in N.C. lost her entire backyard > during Fran in '96. Take care you guys. Kakki Just got word that the University will close at 5 tonight and remain closed tomorrow. That's good news. Jerry, heading home to batten the hatches. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:30:05 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Instrument Bash(ing) In 1968 the Who did a tour of the United States. Prior to the tour, in Mannys Guitar Store in New York, Peter Townshend purchased 147 brand new Gibson SG's. Not one guitar survived the tour. I got a piece of one of them. It was great. What is this nonsense about breaking guitars. They smash million dollar automobiles in Nascar. The NFL spends more money on smashed athletes in one weekeednd then musical instrument sales in the US (Im kidding) so whats the big deal. back to the Whos early career breaking of all their instruments including amps and drumkits, they did it to symbolize the ultimate finality of their act for that night. That no other band could follow their act. It worked. Just for fun in 1969 I was performing at a folk festival and I went out and bought an old beat up acoustic guitar for $10 and for my final song I played My Generation (as a ballad) and did the same.The song only had two chords so it was possible.The crowd at the festival went nuts laughing. It was great. Anyone who plays should try this one time and tell me it isnt one of the better gigs you've had. Musical instruments arent sacred on the whole. let the flames begin. marcel deste. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:47:53 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Instrument Bash(ing) >In 1968 the Who did a tour of the United States. Prior to the tour, in >Mannys >Guitar Store in New York, Peter Townshend purchased 147 brand new Gibson >SG's. Not one guitar survived the tour. I got a piece of one of them. It >was >great. What is this nonsense about breaking guitars. They smash million >dollar automobiles in Nascar. The NFL spends more money on smashed athletes >in one weekeednd then musical instrument sales in the US (Im kidding) so >whats the big deal. back to the Whos early career breaking of all their >instruments including amps and drumkits, they did it to symbolize the >ultimate finality of their act for that night. That no other band could >follow their act. It worked. Just for fun in 1969 I was performing at a >folk >festival and I went out and bought an old beat up acoustic guitar for $10 >and >for my final song I played My Generation (as a ballad) and did the same.The >song only had two chords so it was possible.The crowd at the festival went >nuts laughing. It was great. Anyone who plays should try this one time and >tell me it isnt one of the better gigs you've had. Musical instruments >arent >sacred on the whole. let the flames begin. marcel deste. Of course, you're right - singling out musical instruments doesn't make much sense in comparison with so much other waste that goes on, and not every fiddle is a Stradivarius. Still, some of us have to work by the sweat of our befuddled brows just to be able to afford to buy even a half-decent musical instrument <>. And then, there's the fact that I came from a family that didn't like to waste anything, so the deliberate destruction of anything sends a shive (but not a delighted one) down my spine. On the other hand, I personally don't give a rat's ass about cars or athletes anyhow, so call me biased! Hahaha etc. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:50:02 +0100 From: catman Subject: Gym Joni Just got back from the Gym. As I was programming the runner, BYT started coming over the loudspeakers. A version I had not heard before.(I have only heard Joni's and Jackson's). I asked david the guy on tonight to look up the track listing for me. It was Amy grant circa 94. It wasn't bad and the second best verion I have heard. Joni's being no 1 of course. - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:48:50 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Instrument Bash(ing) In a message dated 9/14/99 4:33:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MDESTE1@aol.com writes: << back to the Whos early career breaking of all their instruments including amps and drumkits, they did it to symbolize the ultimate finality of their act for that night. That no other band could follow their act. It worked. Just for fun in 1969 I was performing at a folk festival and I went out and bought an old beat up acoustic guitar for $10 and for my final song I played My Generation (as a ballad) and did the same. >> I guess the Who and you didn't have to worry about being called back for another encore either! Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:53:41 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: floyd In a message dated 9/14/99 3:51:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << Nerd that I am, I've had the Weather Channel going since last night and have been very concerned about you all in Florida. It is very scary to see that big monster right off the coast. Pearl, Bev, Jerry and all - please let us know how you are. >> Schools here in Jacksonville were closed today and tomorrow. Looks now like Floyd is headed right for us, but these storms always turn to the north and miss us, giving us the weaker back of their hand. Besides, if you live 8 miles inland and on what little high ground there is in Northeast Florida, you needn't worry about the storm surge, which is the biggest danger. The only thing to worry about, instead, is the occasional strong wind or hurricane-spawned tornado, but I ain't skeered of 'em. Let 'em just try and .... WHA? AAHH... AAAHHHHHHHH........ AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH........ Hi, folks, I've always wanted to visit Kansas again! Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:55:17 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Instrument Bash(ing) re: smashing guitars That Antonioni movie, 'Blow Up', featured a live sequence of a Yardbirds performance, with Jeff Beck playing his vintage Les Paul. Antonioni wanted him to smash it up, but Beck said no way. So Antonioni had Beck smash up an obviously different, cheap copy guitar at the end of the sequence. - -jan ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #190 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?