From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #188 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Monday, September 13 1999 Volume 01 : Number 188 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- joni fest, 1999 [RickieLee1@aol.com] Re: JoniFest 99 Thoughts and feelings [RMuRocks@aol.com] New Music Discovery [Vince Lavieri ] Re: New Music Discovery [MGVal@aol.com] RV: New Music Discovery ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: New Music Discovery ["Wally Kairuz" ] Joni sighting? [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Joni sighting? [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Turns out no Joni sighting [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Strangers ["P. Henry" ] Re: New Music Discovery [Jason Maloney ] Re: JoniFest 99 Thoughts and feelings (LONG) ["Mark or Travis" ] qawwali/nusrat [Wolfebite@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:26:05 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: joni fest, 1999 In a message dated 9/11/99 1:57:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, RickieLee1 writes: greetings listers! i have been meaning to drop you all a line since ashara's party to say hello and thanks to all of you i had the pleasure of seeing again, and for the first time. i so wish i could have stayed longer, but it just wasn't possible... i got a call from our very own splendid roberto - who let me know he had arrived safely at ashara's, as i had requested he do. but the remainder of the day and evening i was a wreck, thinking that my friend robert and many others were gathering just outside my gaze...so, late friday night i decided to swing by the stansfield shanty and see if any lights were still on. it had been my hope to come in sort of reminiscent of anthony hopkins, you know? in the remains of the day? dignified; reserved; in control. (i know, i know, screwed up and repressed too, but let's accentuate the positive...) instead, i fear, (and to my eternal chagrin) i was more like garbo in camille. i can't explain it. this list thing. it is a phenomena that is way beyond my limited grasp! i think we all know that the jmdl is funny, and stimulating, and maddening, and frustrating, and enlightening. all that. may none of you ever learn that it is also a comfort and a mercy. through and through. and that friday just proved it. (and by the way, can i make an entrance, OR WHAT?) thanks to maggie and ashara, who found me first, and allowed me to hide my face in their sweet arms while i cried like the big old baby i fear i have become. and thanks to kakki, who saw me and didn't say anything. just got up and walked to me, held me for a little while and let me sob for a few minutes. thank you kakki. from my heart. and mark, from seattle!!! mark, i am still cringing to think what you must have thought as this total stranger stumbled towards you, blubbering and out of control. but you just put your arms around me and made me feel cared for and comforted. and bob m. too. it was not the way i had hoped to be introduced to either of you, believe me, and it seems to me that there is just no way it could have not made you both feel uncomfortable. but if it did, you never let it show and i will never forget that. thanks so much. and then robert appeared! more than just my friend. he is this list's great gift to me and my life. and like a true gift, he got me out of that kitchen with the last few remaining shreds of my dignity dragging behind me, but somewhat intact. and there was paz and chuck, and this vision called catgirl, who sang refuge of the roads... there is no song in all of joni's work that means more to me - to my history and experience. it is a very very loaded piece of music for me and even when i am feeling solid and together (hey! once in a while!!) it has the power to undo me with any number of poignant lines. "and i sat before his sanity, i was holding back from crying..." it was beautiful. and it meant so much to me to hear you guys sing it, but i was just overcome. so, altho i know i left in the middle of the performance, it had nothing to do with a lack of appreciation. i just could not listen to it without falling apart. i know you understand. and marion. to those of you who have not yet met and heard this woman...poor you. such a command of the guitar and such a voice, and most important, such a spirit. (i met a friend of spirit...) thank you for the chocolates marian. generous and classy - which probably sums you up. you looked as wonderful as you sounded! the chocolates melted in my car on the way home, so i ate a couple by dipping my fingertip into the goo, and i think i am going to eat chocolate that way from now on... so, having collected my hugs i left - running like a white ass deer. back home. not knowing how i would do it, but knowing i would get back the next day, somehow, if only for a few minutes... which is exactly what i did. and had my subterfuge rewarded a hundred fold. because the next day i got to see my much loved heather, who has so many gifts, not the least of which is an ability to make me laugh, no matter what. bless you heather! know that my love goes with you as your love stays with me... and then there was katie and her husband, and julie, and les, and chuck e. (he and i should be buddies, don't you think? rickielee and chuck e.? come on list! keep up!) and so many more. it was just a perfect day. michael with his shrimp and his cherokee louise pennies. and katie with her good luck rings. the weather was gorgeous and the atmosphere too perfect for even ashara's crabby neighbors to spoil. and kenny. and patrick. it was wonderful to see both of you again. i wish i could have spent some time with each of you. and pearl. who can't love pearl? singing marcie...she makes you want to cock your head and go "ohhhhhhh" she's a wonderful person, as everyone who has met her knows. and julie. julie, i saw you sitting by yourself, leaning against the fence, listening to the music and basking in the sun and i wanted to go over and sit with you but figured you were tired from your trip. i could kick myself now for not having done so. i knew i was going to fall to pieces as soon as i walked in the door, and i was terrified i would spoil the mood of everyone's good time by coming in and making a scene. but i don't think that happened. (i don't think anything could have derailed that party - me here, least of all...) and then, just a few short hours later, i had to leave. it broke my heart to go, but i had no choice. i hope everyone understands that my sneaking off was not the result of not caring enough to stop first to say "so long." i was just in one of those fragile states i am loathe to own up to, and that is the only reason i stole away...i would have never been able to make the rounds without someone having to sweep me up afterwards, so i left you then (having found my refuge) for the roads that brought me back home. thanking you all is just so f-ing inadequate. but words fail. as always. but that's ok. because i will tell you something i have learned, and learned again, in this morbid little adventure called life, (uh-oh. ric is about to wax philosophical. run for your lives...) and that is that there are just some things in our experience that are too large for language. to verbalize them is to diminish them. sometimes silence is the largest truth of all. so i will just say thanks to all of you, mentioned and not, and leave it at that. thanks for lighting the candle in this poor heart of mine. and for being there for me in ways i have no right to expect. i will always bless you. the rest is silence. talk soon. love, Ric ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:03:09 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: JoniFest 99 Thoughts and feelings In a message dated 9/11/99 8:19:45 PM US Central Standard Time, michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net writes: << You need to hang with us longer next time Bob and go on the extended sojourn to points north of Topsfield. >> You don't think I'm kicking myself on a daily basis for leaving Sunday at noon? :~) Like the Cubs fans say, wait'll next year!! And thanks again Michael for playing and letting me sing with you and Chuck Sat. night...even though I kept coming in at the wrong time singing Neil's "Old Man". We'll have to plan out a set next year so I can sing a little - your set inspired me to believe that we guys, butch though we may be, can bring the sensitivity and beauty needed to do justice to Joni's music! Thanks for your report and especially for just being the fabulous original spirit that you are! Bob NP: Marvelous 3, "You're So Yesterday" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:40:41 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: New Music Discovery I have not had even a fractionally decent phonograph, 8-track, or cassete system since the demise of my marriage in 1987. At my partner's house, where there waas a decent system, I never got to use it for reasons not important to this list. So in my new apartment, today I got this rather advanced boom box (scoff all you want, techno-music purists, it is all that I can afford) so I am right now listening to Joni for the first time in many years not on my computer speakers. It is not the quality of your sound system, it is the level of improvement from your prior ability to play music that causes Joni-gasms. For the record (interesting; should I really say, "for the compact disk...") the first cd played was NRH... and then I decided to hear The Jungle Line from HOSL and thought that was so fine that I replayed it again, and thought was so wonderful I tried the volumn controls on my new boom box and everyone within this apartment complex and the supermarket across the street has made a new musical discovery! Is life more American than this: the internet connected, Joni playing, the football game on tv... if only I had a second phone line so I could be talking to someone while I revel in this technobliss! Excuse me for now, though, I have 18 more c.d.s to play on the new boombox before I can possibly sleep. It is like hearing Joni all over again for the very first time - and you know what, she is GOOD! She IS GOOD! JONI IS GOOD! GREAT! FANTASTIC! I am having Joni moment after Joni moment here. The Joni-gasms are coming about one song apart... (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:42:55 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: New Music Discovery In a message dated 9/12/99 1:34:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, revrvl@pathwaynet.com writes: << Excuse me for now, though, I have 18 more c.d.s to play on the new boombox before I can possibly sleep. It is like hearing Joni all over again for the very first time - and you know what, she is GOOD! She IS GOOD! JONI IS GOOD! GREAT! FANTASTIC! >> Rev, This happened to me a few years ago. Being severely hearing impaired, I just more or less stopped listening to music. Chuck E. sent me much advice on headphones and I invested some $$$ in those and then confiscated my daughter's stereo. I had an experience very similar to yours, except that my "computer speakers" were simply playing the songs in my head from when I last listened to them. And it was great! I still have't dropped the habit of "playing albums in my head," but to re-hear her music again after a long, long break was just incredible. MG - taking a break from ripping up the carpets in the house..... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:47:27 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RV: New Music Discovery - -----Original Message----- De: Wally Kairuz Para: Vince Lavieri Fecha: Domingo 12 de Septiembre de 1999 17:46 Asunto: RE: New Music Discovery >good for you, vince! keep the joni-gasms coming! i'm having quite a few of >my own right now too... >wallyk >-----Original Message----- >De: Vince Lavieri >Para: joni@smoe.org >Fecha: Domingo 12 de Septiembre de 1999 14:45 >Asunto: New Music Discovery > > >>Excuse me for now, though, I have 18 more c.d.s to play on the new >>boombox before I can possibly sleep. It is like hearing Joni all over >>again for the very first time - and you know what, she is GOOD! She IS >>GOOD! JONI IS GOOD! GREAT! FANTASTIC! >> >>I am having Joni moment after Joni moment here. The Joni-gasms are >>coming about one song apart... >> >>(the Rev) Vince >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:52:22 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: New Music Discovery mg!!! that's no way to cope with a bad hair day! wallyk - -----Original Message----- De: MGVal@aol.com Para: joni@smoe.org Fecha: Domingo 12 de Septiembre de 1999 14:57 Asunto: Re: New Music Discovery >MG - taking a break from ripping up the carpets in the house..... > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:19:58 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Joni sighting? My wonderful but cultural-challenged bishop emailed to me: > > > Hi, Vince.........as you were celebrating this great > day, I took time out from my sick bed to celebrate a wedding in the beautiful > land of Nantucket (an island in Massachusetts).....a beautiful day to start > their sacramental life together and a beautiful day, I hope, it was for you > to remember that great Spirit-filled event of "long ago".....Joni Mitchell > sang a song during the reception, and I thought of you... Ok, as I press my bishop for details, and I am sure he will remember none, I'm shocked that he knew who Joni was, what does anyone know about this... and anyone near the Cape, the islands, whatever, be on the lookout! (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:32:10 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni sighting? In a message dated 9/12/1999 6:14:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, revrvl@pathwaynet.com writes: << Ok, as I press my bishop for details, and I am sure he will remember none, I'm shocked that he knew who Joni was, what does anyone know about this... and anyone near the Cape, the islands, whatever, be on the lookout! (the Rev) Vince >> WOW! How cool! OK Rev you need to find ouexactly what he meant. Was she actually there or what? This is so exciting! Catgirl ps now that you have music back in your life again(Whoo-Hoo) You need to get some of the Cd's from the CD Tree no.1! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:59:20 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Turns out no Joni sighting Sorry. My bishop is now upset because he thinks I don't care about his illness as much as I care about Joni Mitchell... I did tell him there are many bishops but only one Joni... didn't help the cause... anyway he now clarifies that they had Joni Mitchell MUSIC not Joni at the reception. Sorry for the false alarm, and he thinks that I am excitable, but when it comes to Joni, aren't we all that way. But it sounded so good... even Nantucket seemed to make sense somehow, as opposed to, say, Joni singing in my backyard in rural western Michigan, (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:09:21 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Strangers bob observed: > "Still sometimes the slightest touch of a stranger can set up trembling in my bones", > > And it reminded me of Joni's other "stranger" line from "Down to You": "You brush against a stranger and you both apologize" > > And it once again made me marvel at Joni's songwriting skills because she describes the same thing, brushing up against a stranger, but implies two totally different emotions.... opposites almost. And it's all the more powerful because it's something we've all experienced, a stranger's touch being either thrilling or chilling. bob, I see what you're saying... just not all that sure this is such an emotional dichotomy; I mean, how hard is it to picture two people apologizing, yet trembling in their bones at the same time? *G* pat (just bein' a stinker) NP: Down To You Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:05:38 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: New Music Discovery Vince Lavieri wrote: > I am having Joni moment after Joni moment here. The Joni-gasms are > coming about one song apart... joni-gasms? ahhh, so THAT's what they are. Been having them for years, but nobody ever explained it to me :-) I'm about to embark on my own Joni-discovery any time now. In the last couple of weeks, I have completed my (studio) Joni collection on CD. STAS, Clouds and lastly Mingus were the ones missing until now. Having not heard any of these before, does anyone have any thoughts on how a Joni fan like myself who has all the other albums, but loves Hejira, NRH, CMIARS, and TI the most, might best approach and appreciate these 3 albums? Particularly the much-maligned (misunderstood?) Mingus. Any input will be most welcome. Thanks, Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:05:10 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: JoniFest 99 Thoughts and feelings (LONG) > Continuing listening to the tapes I am playing Hejira and I see why I > got lost the first time. Brian was sending chills up my spine with some > of those really tasty licks. (that might have been too graphic a visual > even for myself). Ashara for someone that didn't know Cherokee Louise, > you did a damn fine job girl. I have to humbly apologize to Michael and everyone on the list. In my report I credited the lead on 'Cherokee Louise' to Catgirl. I guess this is just a case of too many memorable moments over the course of a weekend that was much too short. Colin might say I had a 'senior moment'. To tell the truth when I wrote my report I couldn't seem to quite recall who was playing and singing lead on 'Cherokee Louise'. I was too busy at the time trying to overcome stagefright and too overwhelmed to be up there singing between Ashara and Patrick. Over time it has dawned on me that it was Paz and not Catgirl but again I wasn't sure. I could have put my foot in it all over again. Really this is unforgivable because Michael Paz plays & sings so beautifully & soulfully that it's inconceivable to me that I would make this mistake. I'm done for now. I'll put my tail between my legs and go lay by my dish... Mark in Seattle (feeling very embarrassed) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:52:47 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: New Music Discovery In a message dated 9/12/99 5:57:51 PM US Central Standard Time, jason.maloney@virgin.net writes: << I have completed my (studio) Joni collection on CD. STAS, Clouds and lastly Mingus were the ones missing until now. Having not heard any of these before, does anyone have any thoughts on how a Joni fan like myself might best approach and appreciate these 3 albums? Particularly the much-maligned (misunderstood?) Mingus. >> Jason, with Mingus what blows me away is her SINGING, particularly on Sweet Sucker Dance. I think that may be her prettiest singing to date (as a jazz singer anyway). Anyway, for me the pleasure of Mingus lies in listening to her jazz phrasing and her handling of what are very complex and often inaccessible melodies and rhythms. I also love to hear her guitar playing on "Wolf that Lives in Lindsay". I always enjoy Clouds more if I'm "away from it all", sitting on my back porch or on the couch with headphones on, or at the beach looking over the sound or into the garden off of the deck at the beach house we stay at...Her singing is so clear you don't really need the lyrics to follow along, just listen as she sings the stories and let your mind supply the movies to "Gallery", "That Song About the Midway", and "Both Sides Now" and the others... STAS doesn't have much history with me; I only picked it up in 1998 myself, so I'll let someone who has more memories with it than I do share their thoughts. But in a nutshell, the key to enjoying Joni is listen, listen, listen!! I'm anxious to hear what you think about Mingus! Just don't be too surprised if no one responds; Mingus is the "crazy uncle in the closet" of the list...we all know it's there, but nobody talks about it. :~D Bob NP: New Radicals, "Someday We'll Know" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:54:08 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: More JoniFest 99 Thoughts and feelings Mark or Travis wrote: > Really this is unforgivable because Michael Paz plays & sings so > beautifully & soulfully that it's inconceivable to me that I would > make this mistake. I'm done for now. I'll put my tail between my > legs and go lay by my dish... > > Mark in Seattle (feeling very embarrassed) Mark- There there Mark, don't be upset. Afterwhile all of us JoniWannaBes look alike. Just the fact that you might mistake me for Catgirl gets my feet up to dance. Just wanted you to know that I am blonde on the inside! The Cherokee Louise jam was wonderful and I am really glad I asked everyone up to do it with me cause I was so nervous, all of my flubs would have been more evident. I wish we would have had another few days, I forgot to play so many different things. NP-Southern Man- Kakki, ChuckE, Paz, and the Atty May Ghostly Choir It occurs to me that I did not comment that we finally made it to the Parker Guitar Factory on Tuesday morning before we left New England. Kakki and I got to pose with the new Joni guitar (with no strings on it). It is SO light! I have made up my mind that I will have one by next New England Joni Fest. We did not get to meet the Man (Ken Parker), but his people were very nice and they showed us some of the other models like "The Spanish Fly" (a gut string model they have coming) and the Midi Guitar. NP-Wooden Ships-Kakki (doing a Grace Slick thing), ChuckE, Paz and a HostOGhosts Followed By a rousing Big Yellow Taxi then Peoples Parties with even Pearl in the Band (and the ghosts parted to give her room) Michael (still trying to sort it all out) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:10:13 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: More JoniFest 99 Thoughts and feelings In a message dated 9/12/1999 10:55:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net writes: << Kakki and I got to pose with the new Joni guitar (with no strings on it). It is SO light! >> Michael, Is this the one you showed me at Ashara's, with all the features ON the guitar? Are you going to put that pix on the website?? How much are they going to run? Do I ask too many questions? Terry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:30:57 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Joni's Mingus "Butch" sez: << I'm anxious to hear what you think about Mingus! Just don't be too surprised if no one responds; Mingus is the "crazy uncle in the closet" of the list...we all know it's there, but nobody talks about it. :~D >> Well, you'll get a response from me! Just the other day, I was telling a list member that "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" is one of my favorite "NPIMH" (now playing in my head) tunes. As you pointed out, her singing on Mingus is just lovely. "Sweet Sucker Dance" is one of my all time favorite songs of hers as well and I had it on repeat all afternoon while I pulled up carpet that made me feel young by comparison. The stanza: "You're a sweet love, you're a proud man...." encapsulates everything I always hope to find in a partner. Somehow, her phrasing and melody and words make my heart ache with longing like you wouldn't believe. As for the rest of Mingus, the way she measures out her words: "Tonight these crowds are happpppppppy.......and louddddddddddd" paints a wonderful visual picture. It is one sublime album. I love Mingus. And darn it, it's time for me to stop playing it in my head and invest in the cotton-picking CD! MG NP: Mary Caitlyn serenading me with the score from "South Pacific." And Joni-friends: if there's a home improvement project that cannot use the assistance of a butter knife and a pair of Maybelline acu-grip tweezers, well I sure don't know about it! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 06:05:01 -0400 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: NJD DeadManWalking Soundtrack What chills me to the marrow? "The Dead Man Walking" Soundtrack: which features music inspired by the movie. The Score features the long versions of "The Face Of Love" and "The Long Road," duets between qawalli master Ustad Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and Edward Vedder as well as Nusrat performances that were or were slated to be "cues" in the film and a variety of choral pieces, a dudouk instrumental, etc. The score was written by David Robbins, brother of Dead Man Walking's director Tim Robbins. Musicologists out there: what's qawalli music? What's a dudouk? Who's Ustad Musrat Fateh Ali Khan and where can I hear more of him? Why's an average joe like me so possessed by this type of music? JulieZW, who has been known to look like a "dead mother walking" when dragging three tired and hungry kids from the zoo exit gate to our car which feels as if it's parked ten miles away ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:27:30 EDT From: Wolfebite@aol.com Subject: qawwali/nusrat jules Qawwali, or devotional song, is a form of singing popular in india and pakistan- linked to that great mystical branch of islam- sufism. Nusrat fateh ali khan was perhaps the greatest (at least the most popular) devotee of this singing- and sang traditional songs (in up to three different languages i believe) in an upbeat and emotional manner. Nusrat updated Qawwali to attract younger followers- upping the rhythms and adding lots of vocal fireworks. The singing, like in indian Ragas, has basic themes and text and that will get improvised and repeated for their emotional content and clarity. Nusrat died just a few years ago- but i did have the pleasure of seeing him in concert with his group (many of them family members) here in Chicago. WHAT A CONCERT!!!!!!!!! i had a rather lovely man sitting next to me, who offered to translate the songs, which are mainly love/devotional songs... so i had these beautiful ballads whispered into my ear in english by my earnest interpreter.... sigh. Two of his nephews have gone on to form a group called Rizwan-Meuzan Qawwali Group. They are performing here in Chicago at the Museum of Contemporary Art on Sat Sept 25 at 8pm. $10.00 ... don't miss it. i'll be out of town at the Minnesota State Sacred Harp convention that weekend.. anyhoo- there are TONS of recordings of Nusrat out there now; many of them on Real World. Some of the newer Real World recordings (nights songs, Mustt Mustt) are more music projects with Nusrat singing along with other musicians, which while interesting are not as powerful as the work of his group. my favorite is 'shahen-shah' on Real World. a doumbek is a drum- hourglass shaped- usually metal with a higher/sharper voicing. at least i think it is.... "every object, every being, is a jar full of delight. be a connoisseur" rumi doug ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #188 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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