From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #151 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Friday, August 13 1999 Volume 01 : Number 151 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joshua Redman in town... [RMuRocks@aol.com] Joni - live at the Carnegie Hall - Feb 23 72 ["Francesco Lucarelli" ] Re: Larry the Riveter - Janitors ["Catherine McKay" ] Troubling '60s Non-Flashbacks (VLJC) [Steve Dulson ] Blue collar stuff ["Catherine McKay" ] Joni, cactus tree ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: Blue collar stuff ["Brett Code" ] [Fwd: Re: Falling in love...] ["Jennifer L. Nodine" ] Re: Urge for Going - Tony Rice [kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave)] Re: Song to a Seagull [FMYFL@aol.com] The Unsettled Joni [Scott Price ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 07:26:42 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Joshua Redman in town... Today's Greenville News has an article about Joshua Redman playing Friday/Saturday at the Brevard, NC Jazz Festival. Of course I searched for the Joni mention and hit paydirt: "On 'Timeless Tales', Redman interprets a Joni Mitchell song, "I Had A King." Mitchell's work appeals to Redman for its sense of lyricism in the melodies and airiness and openness. That openness fits well into the constructs of jazz, he added." And of course, this cover of "I Had a King" is on TT#8... Bob, playing hookey from work to go play golf with my son on his last day before school bells ring...shhhh, don't tell, they'll never miss me... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:53:40 +0200 From: "Francesco Lucarelli" Subject: Joni - live at the Carnegie Hall - Feb 23 72 Greetings from Roma! I am Francesco Lucarelli and I'm currently working on a book about Crosby Stills Nash & Young with Herman Verbeke. The book will also feature a (large) section dedicated to concert dates, so here's a question for all of you Joni experts... *** Feb 23, 1972 *** Joni at Carnegie Hall has Stills ? Nash ? + ??? on Circle Game - last encore - any ideas?? I'm also looking for details of any other show when they shared the bill together (but not the 1974 CSNY tour) or did guest appearances at each others' concerts. Also much appreciated any article, paper, memory re: Joni and Crosby in the late 60's. Thanks, Francesco ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 08:21:54 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Song to a Seagull (long) I have alwasy seen this album as the first written by a young woman who came from the Canadian heartland to the east coast of america. Of course the two things that would blow her mind would be the streets of New York and the harbor seaport itself. And Dawntreader is an incredible song. I can imagine her walking alone at night or at dawn along the New York harbor somewhere perhaps at battery park. I enjoyed your post it still is my favorite of all joni albums. marcel deste. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:07:58 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: "The Arrangement" Bolvangar@aol.com wrote: > Hello all, > I hadn't remembered this being mentioned before -- though it probably > was, maybe during the thread about Elia Kazan's honorary Oscar this spring? > -- but today I ran across a Pauline Kael review (I've been reading her a lot > lately) of a late '60s film called "The Arrangement," adapted by Kazan from > his own novel, which seems to be the source for Joni's song on LOTC. Can > anyone give more info? The book was much better than the movie. It was a very popular title and I'm sure Joni was aware of it. Her song is MUCH better than either the book or the movie. Jerry np: Petula Clark: Here for You ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:08:06 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Larry the Riveter - Janitors "The janitors of Shadowland flick their brooms at me" Jeez, I love that line! cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 08:28:00 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Troubling '60s Non-Flashbacks (VLJC) Pat wrote: >NP: I Can't Quit Her - BS&T Wasn't that Electric Flag? I mean, Flag was one of my fave live bands, and I can *see and hear* them playing that. Is this the result of too much drugs, or what? :) And another favorite of mine (and Kakki's) was Sweetwater, the no-guitar, cello/flute/bass/drums/keyboards LA band that opened Woodstock. VH-1 is doing an original movie on them Sunday at 9:00 pm, west coast. 'Time' said the movie was pretty lame, but at least maybe some of their music will get out on CD now. Nansi Nevins, the lead singer, lives just down the road in Laguna Beach. And (now the JC) David wrote: >I ran across a Pauline Kael review (I've been reading her a lot >lately) of a late '60s film called "The Arrangement," adapted by Kazan from >his own novel, which seems to be the source for Joni's song on LOTC. While I don't know for sure, I always figured Joni's song was a (failed) attempt to do a title song for the movie. It fits the plot perfectly. I'll bet Joni pitched the song to Kazan. Steve (ecstatic that the recording and mixing are done for the new Tinker CD, and delighted with the results. If all goes as planned, "Bending the Banshee's Ear" will be out Oct. 1) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:26:25 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Blue collar stuff Too bad there's no prize - if there were, you'd win the Golden Rivet award (I was thinking in terms of a steel bolt spraypainted and signed by Joni). Little did I know when I dreamed that one up that there actually WERE so many references. I thought there were more references to girders and steel beams and stuff in Joni's work (but there actually aren't). unless you want to include "cold blue steel" (which I presume is a hypodermic needle, but I've always had the image when I hear that song, not just of the drug addict searching for a fix, but of stark cityscapes as well, with the "sweet fire" not just the drug in your veins, but more city-as-hell stuff - picture a big blast furnace. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:29:19 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Joni, cactus tree >Joni was very... well, open... even flirty. although she gets along >with >other women just fine, she is one of those kind of women who is >very >comfortable hanging out with guys... Interesting - I've always had the idea she didn't like other women much. I have no real reason for saying that, it's just an impression. I liked your thoughts on "Cactus Tree" - it makes sense that they're not all lovers, maybe just wannabes. "There's a man who sends her letters and he's waiting for reply..." sounds like a fan (or maybe a stalker!) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:12:33 -0600 From: "Brett Code" Subject: RE: Blue collar stuff The prize should go my clients, whose work does not get done as I gleefully read through "The Complete Poems and Lyrics" by the great JM herself. Sometimes, being a jmdler is just so pleasantly time-consuming. Brett ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:04:37 -0400 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Subject: [Fwd: Re: Falling in love...] Message-ID: <37B328AE.62A3@snet.net> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:03:58 -0400 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Reply-To: jlhall01@snet.net Organization: The Mortgage Finance Corp. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-SNET (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bounced Message Subject: Re: Falling in love... References: <4.2.0.58.19990809144900.00b609c0@mail.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Chris Marshall wrote: > So: who else has fallen in love with someone while falling in love with > Hejira? > Chris, I fell out of love with someone and in love with someone else with Hejira; I was desperately trying to reclaim my individuality (how can I have that point of view, when I'm always BOUND and TIED to someone?) But at the same time, I met a new man who was very intriguing. He gave me a massage one afternoon that left me aching for him. (I'm so glad to be on my own, but somehow the slightest touch of a stranger can set a trembling in my bones) Thanks for the question. - -Jenny CT ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:30:05 -0400 (EDT) From: kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave) Subject: Re: Urge for Going - Tony Rice Steve asked: >Urge For Going (5:48) by Tony Rice >        Tony Rice Native American   >Rounder- 0248 >Is this a version of our Joni's song? It most certainly is. I love this album! here's more: 1. Shadows (Lightfoot) - 3:42 2. St. James Hospital (Baker) - 4:57 3. Night Flyer (Mayall) - 3:57 4. Why You Been Gone So Long (Newbury) - 3:20 5. Urge for Going (Mitchell) - 5:48 6. Go My Way (Lightfoot) - 2:48 7. Nothin' Like a Hundred Miles (Taylor) - 4:17 8. Changes (Ochs) - 2:20 9. Brother to the Wind (Bickhardt) - 3:28 10. John Wilkes Booth (Carpenter) - 3:51 11. Summer Wages (Tyson) - 4:00 Jerry Douglas-Dobro Tony Rice-Guitar, Vocals, Producer Wyatt Rice-Guitar Jonathan Edwards-Harmonica, Harmony Vocals Johnny Carroll-Piano John Edwards-Harmonica, Vocals (bckgr) Mary-Chapin Carpenter-Vocals (bckgr), Harmony Vocals Vassar Clements-Fiddle Jimmy Gaudreau-Mandolin John Jennings-Guitar, Guitar (Electric), Producer Robbie Magruder-Drums Rico Petrucelli-Bass (Electric) Mark Schatz-Bass, Acoustic Bass Bill Wolf-Producer Jon Carroll-Piano, Keyboards Bill Wolf-Producer, Engineer, Mixing Nancy Given-CD Adaptation Mark Farris-Photography Joanna Bodenweber-Design gdave NP: Bob Dylan 8/12/97 Montage Mountain, Scranton, PA - ----------------------------------------------------------------- DaveBase @ www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/2349/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 18:13:56 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Song to a Seagull David (Bolvangar@aol.com) writes his views on STAS and I found them very interesting, and I agree with most of what he said. I also have been listening to STAS quite a bit lately, and especially "Night in the City". I have been playing that song over and over. It's such a happy uplifting song, and as David mentioned the piano sounds so great. It kind of reminds me of a Mama's and the Papas song. I think Joni hung out with Mama Cass back then, and when I hear "Night in the City" I can just imagine the two of them singing it together. Just a thought. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:06:15 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: The Unsettled Joni At 05:57 PM 8/11/99, P. Henry wrote: >>Scott Price wrote about the song "Cactus Tree:" >>...the overwhelming message, again IMO, is that she was >>looking back at the men in her life while struggling >>with the idea of "settling down" as opposed to retaining her freedom. > > having seen the phenomena of Joni's 'groupies' with their > insistance and that glazed over look in their eyes first > hand and having to personally 'fend them off', so to speak, > I am more inclined to view these lyrics as a very sensitive > and empathetic describing of what had been going on... Pat: Only Joni knows for sure but I think she has wondered for years what her life would have been like had she chosen to "settle down." Many women of her generation found themselves married and ensconced in a household and I think she may have felt a bit different or odd because she was such an independent woman, one whose creativity was fueled by a bit of wanderlust. "How come I keep moving from man to man to man?" she once asked. The song "Man to Man" from WTRF is a self-examination of this question. Why does she keep on the move when she's had all these chances with "A lot of good guys?" Previously, in "Let the Wind Carry Me" from FTR she sang: "Sometimes I get that feeling that I want to settle and raise a child up with somebody." But as we know she elected to become "a wild seed again, let the wind carry me." In "Same Situation" from C&S she acknowledges that she's "caught in my struggle for higher achievement, and my search for love, that don't seem to cease." I interpret this lyric to mean that she's saying you can't have it both ways (but she's always trying!). The "higher achievement" is her growth as an artist and a woman, which wouldn't be nearly as easy to attain if she was to "settle down" and be in love with someone in the traditional sense of marrying, having children, and staying in the home. In "Hissing of Summer Lawns" she again touches on life in suburbia, but decides that it's not for her. The woman was given "a diamond for her throat, a ranch house on a hill, and a room full of Chippendale." Despite these things, she remains there, kind of a prisoner, because while she's relegated to "darkness, no color, no contrast," the woman "stays with a love of some kind." I think Joni is looking at a marriage where according to the script it's supposed to be all sweetness and light because the couple have a fine home in a great neighborhood, but despite all the material goods there's just no spark, no light. While Joni's not putting the woman down for staying in the "darkness," saying "it's the lady's choice," she is reinforcing to herself that this type of arrangement is not for her. Her strongest statements about this "dilemma" of whether or not to settle down are found on Hejira. She tries to run away herself, but wrestles with her ego, and the (romantic) flame of the Coyote. She justifies their parting due to "coming from such different sets of circumstance," but still, she wonders what might have been. She crashes into his arms in Amelia but concludes that it's just a dream, and another false alarm. She finds kinship with the "Strange Boy" because despite all he's been through, nothing "could bring him to maturity." And of course, "Song For Sharon" details "The power of reason, and the flowers of deep feelings," which "seem to serve me, only to deceive me." Joni's childhood friend Sharon has a husband, a family, and a farm. She sings for her friends and family, while Joni walks "green pastures by and by." By this point in her life Joni has accepted the fact that she is not the type to settle down too much, but often wonders what it would have been like. We do know that Myrtle (her mother) had wanted her to lead a traditional-type life, one of a husband, family, and farm, but Joni, as always, seeks out and answers her muse. Perhaps Joni has felt a little guilty over the years because she didn't exactly follow her mother's vision of how she wanted her daughter to live, and that's one reason why this theme arises in her work from time to time. I'm personally glad she made the decision she did, to write, perform, and record music...it would have been a shame if she hadn't shared her special gifts with all of us. Scott, often found with that "glazed look" when listening to Joni ;-) ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #151 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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