From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #150 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, August 12 1999 Volume 01 : Number 150 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Resist the Eclipse Hype Part II [=?iso-8859-1?Q?Winfried_H=FChn?= ] Larry the Riveter (some JC) ["Catherine McKay" ] The Art of Joni Mitchell ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Larry the Riveter (some JC) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Urge For Going by Tony Rice? [Steve Dulson ] Al Kooper on Joni ["Chuck EIsenhardt" ] Re: Al Kooper on Joni [Don Rowe ] Joni's lines and images ["Brett Code" ] Re: One-liners [Heather Galli ] Re: One-liners ["Reuben Bell3" ] Re: Al Kooper on Joni [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Resist the Eclipse Hype Part II [Randy Remote ] Joni in print..... [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Resist the Eclipse Hype Part II [Scott and Jody ] VG-8 link on the Guitar Page [Susan McNamara ] For JMDL guitarists [Marian Russell ] RE: Larry the Riveter ["Brett Code" ] RE: Cactus Trees and Galleries... [Scott Price ] Re: Larry the Riveter (some JC) [Brian Gross ] Re: One-liners ["Mark or Travis" ] RE: Cactus Trees and Galleries... ["P. Henry" ] Photo Auction [Leslie Mixon ] Re: One-liners ["Mark Domyancich" ] Re: Resist the Eclipse Hype Part II [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Resist the Eclipse Hype Part II [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Resist the Eclipse Hype Part II ["Mark Domyancich" ] Hello from Australia [Bounced Message ] "The Arrangement" [Bolvangar@aol.com] Vg8 Link [Michael Paz ] Song to a Seagull (long) [Bolvangar@aol.com] Re: People who like Joni ["P. Henry" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:43:15 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Winfried_H=FChn?= Subject: Resist the Eclipse Hype Part II Folks, you don't believe the words from my previous post? Well, here are all the ads from today's newspaper's main section: Page 5 The Sun Is Coming Out again! "12.37 -- 13.15 -- 14.00 -- it's convertible time! BMW Munich Page 6 (half page) The Sun is disappearing for a few minutes today -- Your money often disappears for years in unfair savings plans! AWD Financial Services (very curious -- AWD has been subject to many consumer lawsuits and some of its employees are jailed due to fraud...) Page 7 (full page) "This incredibly realistic solar eclipse was printed with Hewlett Packards revolutionary PhotoREt Precision Technology." Page 9 (Corona-Style picture of Volvo "Coffin" Station Wagon) "This won't happen again for a very long time -- Volvo Black Edition" Page 13 (full page picture of eclipse) "Sun, Moon & Yello Electricity. Yellow. Good. Cheap." Oh well...it'll soon be over! Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:18:55 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: One-liners Sue said: <> Sue, this may the best way of putting it...so succinct, and SO true! When we met and talked to Joni in Atlanta, Marsha asked her to sign her copy of Hejira. Joni just kind of held it for a minute, looking at it. Seeing her looking at it and holding it is a vision I will always retain - you could tell that project holds a very special place in her heart...and as I looked at her I thought "here is the person who conceived and created this masterpiece" and I was filled with awe. Okay, it sounds silly but I hope you guys understand...there's certainly no one else I could tell that could appreciate it! What if the "powers that be" at Asylum had decided the record wasn't "commercial" enough and refused to release it! It gives me shudders to even think such stuff... Bob NP: The Monkees, "She" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 05:59:42 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: RE: Cactus Trees and Galleries... (my apologies for the delay in posting on this) Seth Garrison wrote: to which WallyK responded: I posted on this back in february at which time there were other, apparently more vital issues being discussed and it did not seem to foster much interest at that time... but now that the subject has come up, since I have some personal experiential knowledge of events which may have at least partially inspired the writing of this song... I re-submit: (in response to a question regarding my relationship with Joni, '66-'68 as well as a question on who 'Cactus Tree" might have been referring to) "ummmm... how do I say this... well, I certainly would have *liked* to have had 'more than a friendship' with her... (me and a thousand other guys!) but when I first met her she was still married and it never really crossed my mind... (ok, so maybe it crossed my mind a few times, but I always stifled myself! LoL!!!) also, there was the difference in our ages... she, about 21/22 and myself a mere 17... I think, had I been her age, I would have actually tried to get next to her after she split with Chuck... she gave one the feeling that a little romance would be ok with her... (the words "...try to keep myself open up to you" come to mind...) but me? I was a virgin... (in fact I lost my virginity during that time I knew her to a sweet young farm girl with a lot of the same qualities I saw in Joni and lived with her for the next two years...) Joni had such an intense effect on me! and I mean more than my teenage crush on her... we were friends and we spent many hours just hanging together. I've written before trying to describe this and it's not all that easy... Joni was very... well, open... even flirty. although she gets along with other women just fine, she is one of those kind of women who is very comfortable hanging out with guys... when she talked to you she talked about you... not herself, unless you asked... and she was a joker and knew how to make a guy smile and feel like a million and very much at ease... she didn't play games but looked you right in the eye when she was with you and I never heard her put anyone down... (well, at least not to boost herself up) and she was extremely honest... even blunt... and, as far as I know, still is. as to the 'cactus tree'... you ask "Did/Do you know who she's singing about?" well, I wrote on that before also... this is how it was... there were men... *lots* of men... men who, for example, caught her performance in philly, perhaps got a chance to speak with her for a minute or two, and then took off from work or school, jumped on a plane or a bus and *followed* her to her next gig... and her next... and her next... etc. the reason I am so acutely aware of this is because it was usually I who was the go-between if someone wanted to talk to the performer for some reason and these guys were obsessed! ...persistent and obsessed... and they tried everything, even to the point that sometimes we had to threaten to ask them to leave, which, btw, would always calm them right down. sometimes Joni would say yes and talk with one of them for a few minutes out of interest or sympathy, but mostly she would refuse because she knew where it would go... (and didn't want to encourage them) so, when you ask me if I know who... that's who I think about on the cactus tree... guys like that... and guys like me. *G* I probably didn't, at 17, have the wherewithal to understand it= then, but, in hindsight, I think Joni was a very sensual and romantic young lady... and not all that hindered by convention... she'd met Chuck at the riverboat coffeehouse in toronto (where they had two clubs, one upstairs and one down, one for american performers and one for canadian... I can only remember that one was called the riverboat... can't recall the name of the other or which was which... used to know, damn it) and married him, as we all know, for practical purposes mostly... a far cry from what seems to be the carefree art school romance that produced Kilauren, and, to be honest, that's just the way it seemed between them... practical... I think that, by the time I met them in '66, the adoption had already taken place and they seemed to be more a singing duet than husband and wife... I mean, social... nice... but with little interaction between them. (Joni didn't talk about it much but she did relate to me that Chuck took it hard when she became more in demand than he and bookers didn't want the two of them but only her, forcing Chuck to book himself individually too... I think this was when they started to talk about divorce...) at any rate, after they were split I think Joni had had it up to here with being 'practical' and was very very hungry for love and passion as a woman and as an artist. it doesn't surprise me at all that she went on from there to search out rewarding relationships in these areas... and, in some cases, to find them..." well, all that kind of rambles but it's all true and somehow relevant... the only think I can add is: could David Crosby have been the one out sailing... sure! in fact, if it is him, since he appears at the top of the list it seems likely to me that, in fact, he may have served as the catalyst to her finally expressing something that had been on her mind for years... how virtually every guy that met her fell in love with her instantly! pat NP: Cactus Tree (what else?) http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:31:52 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Larry the Riveter (some JC) Bob you do have a way with words. Your Larry thing was brilliant. >Kakki, who brings out the Joni in everybody, surprises even herself: <> Or as Joni would sing... Subject: The Art of Joni Mitchell I think I've deleted the post, but a few days ago someone mentioned the art (the paintings, in this case) of Joni Mitchell. I'm sure I read somewhere about her possibly having a showing of her paintings, perhaps a tour of some kind. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find the reference anywhere. Can anyone help me out with this? cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:01:40 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Larry the Riveter (some JC) Catherine asks: <> "The guy at the gaspumps" (Barangrill) Bob NP: Song for Sharon from 06/14/83 show ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:25:13 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Urge For Going by Tony Rice? A bluegrass DJ on the FOLKDJ list played: 5 Urge For Going (5:48) by Tony Rice Tony Rice Native American Rounder- 0248 Is this a version of our Joni's song? ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:38:30 -0400 From: "Chuck EIsenhardt" Subject: Al Kooper on Joni Howdy y'all, I've been in deep lurk but keeping an eye on you guys. Gearing up for Asharastock. Hello to new and old friends here. I've been meaning to post this excerpt from Al Kooper's book 'Backstage Passes and Backstabbing Bastards' and now more than ever since it sheds some light on the Joni-Judy Collins relationship. In Al's words: 'One night I was sitting in my favorite bar in the Village, the Dugout. It was the best place to kill a summer's night, and I always ran into a few friends I would miss while I was on the road. I was living platonically at folk-singer Judy Collins' apartment on the Upper West Side in between my own apartments. Judy, the number two female folk singer behind Joan Baez, was a wonderful, generous woman. Her apartment was the folk-music salon of the mid-sixties. People like Dylan, Leonard Cohen, Phil Ochs, and others would make the pilgrimage to her digs and enjoy her hospitality and earth mothering. This particular night in the Village I was sitting with a new girl in town. She had a crush on Roy Blumenfeld, the drummer from the Blues Project [note: Al's Band] Unfortunately for her, Roy had a girlfriend who was on to her, and extremely jealous. So this gal is crying in my beer for about three hours, and I don't mind 'cause she's kinda easy on the eyes and nothing else is going on anyway. So they're closing the bar and throwing us out and I offer to walk her home. It was about a fifteen minute stroll, and it was a beautiful summer's night Since I was covered in the ashes of my failed marriage, this was a pleasant diversion. When we got to her door, she invited me in to hear some of her new songs. She was a folk singer. Canadian. Half of a duet with her recently divorced husband, they had achieved a mild popularity and a cult following in various American border cities. She, being real pretty, had me bounding up the stairs like a hound dog, figuring if the songs were lousy, maybe I could salvage the evening some other way. In a few minutes that became the furthest thing from my mind. Her songs were incredible and totally original, which was a surprise in those days, but quite refreshing. She would finish one, and I would say more, more. And she had enough to keep going for hours, most of them brilliant. One song especially killed me, and I thought it would be great for July Collins- that a nice way to pay her for her hospitality would be to turn her on to it. Being impulsive, I asked my host if I could use her phone, and I called Judy up. It was 5:30 a.m. by now and Judy was pretty pissed off. "I have to get up soon and drive all the way to the Newport Folk Festival, and I wanted to get some sleep for a change. I can hear this song when I get back from the festival. Al," she said diplomatically. Bang! A great idea hits me. "Judy, why don't you, room permitting, take this girl with you to the festival? She could play the song and others for you on the way up and make your trip that much more pleasant. Then, being that you're on the Board of Directors, you could see if maybe they could fit her in the schedule somewhere to play, huh?" Silence at the other end. "Judy?" "Kooper, you bastard. Yeah, I'll do it. Gimme her number. Bye." Just to make sure, I gave the woman Judy's number and told her to call Collins in a couple of hours. I split immediately 'cause I was exhausted and never made it to Judy's place, preferring to crash on a bench in Washington Square Park in the steamy, summer morning rather than get hell for waking her at 5:30 a.m. Well, as the saying goes, the rest is history. The girl (Joni Mitchell, of course) played the 1967 Festival, thanks to last-minute urgings of Judy Collins, and stole the whole show. Judy eventually recorded 'Michael from Mountains' ad also had a huge hit with 'Both Sides Now', another of Joni's songs. Joni never thanked me, but when I heard the album Ladies of the Canyon that was thanks enough. Maybe I should thank *her." So that's Kooper's story. I can *pretty much believe it all, as Al was a veritable musical Forrest Gump and seemed to be in on most every seminal moment of the era. The particular scenario with the drummer from Blue Project suggests to me that it may have even provided context for her tune 'Conversation'? The dates are about right... I enjoyed Kooper's book a great deal, (currently teaching at Berklee!) and would recommend it for a good light summer read. End of book report. See some of you at Ashara's! Chuck E ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:01:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Al Kooper on Joni Hi Chuck, and welcome in from the cold ... > Al Kooper's book sheds some light on > the Joni-Judy Collins relationship. Judy's book "Singing Lessons" tells this same story almost word for word ... which if I remember my Journalism 101 ... equals a "confirmed source." So it must be true ... ;-) Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:10:11 -0600 From: "Brett Code" Subject: Joni's lines and images I've been through the lyrics now - what a thrill it is to read them all. Here's my list of the lines and images that jumped out at me over the last few days and that have been with me for years or decades. I love Joni's music - so amazing. In chronological order: 'Conversation' She removes him, like a ring To wash her hands She only brings him out to show her friends I want to free him 'All I Want' I am on a lonely road and I am travelling looking for the key to set me free Oh the jealousy, the greed is the unraveling It's the unraveling and it undoes all the joy that could be 'My Old Man' The bed's too big The frying pan's too wide 'A Case of You' "Love is touching souls" Well surely you touched mine 'The Last Time I Saw Richard' All good dreamers pass this way some day Hidin' behind bottles in dark cafes 'Lesson in Survival' I will always love you Hands alike Magnet and iron The souls 'Woman of Heart and Mind' After the rush when you come back down You're always disappointed Nothing seems to keep you high Drive your bargains Push your papers Win your medals Fuck your strangers Don't it leave you on the empty side 'Down To You' You go down to the pick up station Craving warmth and beauty You settle for less than fascination A few minutes later you're not so choosy When the closing lights strip off the shadows On this strange new flesh you've found Clutching the night to you like a fig leaf You hurry To the blackness And the blankets To lay down an impression And your loneliness 'The Boho Dance' Like a priest with a pornographic watch Looking and longing on the sly 'Shadows and Light' Critics of all expression Judges in black and white Saying it's wrong Saying it's right 'Amelia' Maybe I've never really loved I guess that is the truth I've spent my whole life in clouds at icy altitudes 'Hejira' In the church they light the candles And the wax rolls down like tears There is the hope and the hoelessness I've witnessed thirty years 'Song For Sharon' A woman just drowned herself The well was deep and muddy She was just shaking off futility Or punishing somebody 'Refuge of the Roads' Oh, radiant happiness It was all so light and easy Till I started analyzing And I brought on my old ways A thunderhead of judgment Was gathering in my gaze 'Talk to Me' Is your silence that golden? Are you comfortable in it? Is it the key to your freedom Or is it the bars on your prison? 'Chinese Cafe - Unchained Melody' And my child's a stranger I bore her But I could not raise her 'The Three Great Stimulants' I saw a little lawyer on the tube He said, "It's so easy now, anyone can sue" "Let me show you how your petty aggravations can profit you!" 'Passion Play' Magdalene is trembling Like a washing on a line Trembling and gleaming Never before was a man so kind Never so redeeming 'Magdalene Laundries One day I'm going to die here too, And they'll plant me in the dirt Like some lame bulb That never blooms come any spring Come any spring No, not any spring . . . 'Happiness is the Best Facelift' This river has run through both our lives ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:24:42 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: One-liners >Sue said: > ><> > Bob wrote: >Sue, this may the best way of putting it...so succinct, and SO true! > >When we met and talked to Joni in Atlanta, Marsha asked her to sign her >copy of Hejira. Joni just kind of held it for a minute, looking at it. >Seeing her looking at it and holding it is a vision I will always retain - >you could tell that project holds a very special place in her heart...and >as I looked at her I thought "here is the person who conceived and created >this masterpiece" and I was filled with awe. Okay, it sounds silly but I >hope you guys understand...there's certainly no one else I could tell that >could appreciate it! > I wish I could have been there to see Joni's expression! Hejira helped me travel through a very uncertain time in my life. Kind of like a security blanket :-) Heather - making name tags for Jonifest ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:51:33 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell3" Subject: Re: One-liners >>> Heather Galli 08/11/99 01:24PM Joni just kind of held it for a minute, looking at it. Seeing her looking at it and holding it is a vision I will always retain>>> That is such a cool story, I would have loved to have been there! >>>...travel through a very uncertain time in my life. Kind of like a security blanket :-)>>> Me, too. Its funny how much that album means to me. I wonder, worldwide (or at least listwide) how many people have this connection to "Hejira". It is perfect when you are lost and lonely, but at the same time isn't "maudlin and full of self pity." It just goes. Reuben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:42:32 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Al Kooper on Joni In a message dated 8/11/1999 11:43:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, chucke@tiac.net writes: << I enjoyed Kooper's book a great deal, (currently teaching at Berklee!) and would recommend it for a good light summer read. End of book report. See some of you at Ashara's! Chuck E >> WOW, What an amazing Joni story! What a time to be alive. Mid sixties, talent flying around like a swarm of bees and smack dab in the middle was Joni. Young, beautiful, extremely talented. What man wouldn't fall in love with such a girl? If I was that guy I wouldn't have left her side! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:03:29 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Resist the Eclipse Hype Part II These were great posts, and gave us a flavor of the eclipse scene as well as reminding those of us on the other side of the sphere about it. If it was in America, a company would have patented the phrases "eclipse", "total eclipse", and all related combinations, and McDonalds would be the official sponsor of the 1999 solar eclipse, etc, etc, etc RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:11:00 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Joni in print..... Hello friends, My husband was readi9ng a book and Joni was mentioned several times so I figure I would share with all of you.. The book is called The Mansion on the Hill....Dylan, Young, Geffen, Springsteen, and the head-on collision of Rock and Commerce By Fred Goodman Here is one menioning says... ...Although Wickhan kept an office in Burbank, he was paid $200.00 a week, and given his own secretary, his real work was to be a part of the Laurel Canyon cognoscenti, keeping one hand on the pulse of the underground and pointing potential signings towards the label with the other. Among those Wickham had a role bringing to Warner/Reprise were Eric Anderson, Jethro Tull, and Van Morrison. During the first week at the company, Wikham urged Ostin to sign Joni Mitchell. Just twenty-three, the Canadian folk singer had come to Wickham's attention when Tom Rush and the duo Ian and Sylvia recorded her song "The Circle Game." After hearing a tape of a club performance and being told Mitchell looked like a blond Joan Beaz, Ostin quicky gave his approval. excerpt one...more to follow or just get the book..it is very interesting reports Eric. Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:01:15 -0500 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Re: Resist the Eclipse Hype Part II Thanks for the posts Winfried! Next year this will be happening in South Africa, so unless you're planning to move there you'll be ok. Did you ever find your sunglasses in the basement? WAIT! You won't need them as the Perseus Showers are happening Tonight! Please keep us updated on that phenomenon :~) you wrote: > In Ambrose Bierce's "Devils Dictionary" it says under "Comet" -- "An excuse > for staying out late at night and going home drunk in the morning" Too bad > he didn't witness an eclipse. > Oh, on second thought I guess Perseus Showers aren't as eventful. We would go to a forest preserve where there was also a field, and lie down and just watch them fall from the sky. It was quite stunning actually! jody ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:03:19 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Larry the Riveter (some JC) <> Besides the aforementioned Barangrill reference, this was all I could find: Shadows & Light: "Pale miners in their lantern rays" Dry Cleaner from Des Moines: "I talked to a cat from DesMoines, he said he ran a cleaning plant" Joni certainly doesn't talk as much about blue-collar work as she uses the word "blue" in her work...now if you want to talk about Springsteen's references to blue-collar work, you could talk all day! Bob NP: The Eagles, "Hollywood Waltz" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:32:56 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Larry the Riveter Catherine wrote: > <> "Marcie's faucet needs a plumber" "Hula girls and Caterpillar tractors in the sand" "The janitors of Shadowland flick their brooms at me" Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:27:56 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: VG-8 link on the Guitar Page Attention all VG-8 owners: I recently received an email from Esau Simmons who alerted me to the fact that he has a page at www.vg-8.com where people can download Joni Mitchell tuning patches!! He was very appreciative to Jim Leahy, and our compatriats at the JMDL Guitar Page (me, Marian, Howard and Mark) for giving him the info on the tunings. Alas, I don't own a VG-8 but I am willing (after I cleared it with Les, of course!) to set up a link to Esau's page so JMDL VG-8ites can download these said patches. I thought it would also be a good idea to link any other interesting VG-8 info for our collective enjoyment. If you are a VG-8 owner and have any ideas about what a VG-8 page should include, please contact me and I'll start setting it up as a part of the JMDL guitar site. For previews of Esau's patch page go to the VG-8 site: http://www.vg-8.com (Esau explained to me that this page is not affiliated with the Roland company) For all those newcomers who don't know what the hey I'm talking about: The VG-8 is a machine that hooks up to an electric guitar (in Joni's case a mahogany Parker Fly) and automatically sets the strings digitally to any tuning you program. This invention virtually saved our Hero's career and made something amazingly surprising like Harlem in Havana possible. Talk to me, Vg-8ites ... Sue NP: my favorite live album this week: David Live (I'm a dude, yeah!) ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 23:18:07 +0200 From: Marian Russell Subject: For JMDL guitarists Just a note to let you all know I've updated the list of tuning patterns at: http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/jm_tunings.htm with a new tuning for Ladies' Man and Man To Man, so you might want to print out the new list. I've been worrying over the right tuning for those songs for some time now and I think I finally got it. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:18:17 -0600 From: "Brett Code" Subject: RE: Larry the Riveter I'm not sure I know what blue collar means in this post-modern world. I guess from my point of view, namely, that of a "little lawyer", it has acquired a broad meaning in these times of "service" industry "jobs". 1) Nathan La Freneer - coach driver 2) Without meter maids and peace parades - 'Nathan L F' 3) There's a jouster and a jester and a man who owns a store ( a stretch, I know)- Cactus Tree 4) The merchants roll their awnings down/The milk truck make their morning rounds - Morning Morgantown 5)The station master's shuffling cards - Just Like This Train 6) Egles the Tailor . . . Pawn shops glitter - Furry Sings the Blues 7) The Dry Cleaner from Des Moines 8) Who're you gonna get to do the dirty work/When all the slaves are free? - Passion Play 9)We're trying to get things white as snow . . . Prostitutes and destitutes/And temptresses like me/Fallen women -/Sentenced into dreamless drudgery - The Magdalene Laundries 10) But now the janitors of Shadowland flick their brooms at me - The Sire of Sorrow 11) I see the diggers waiting, they're leaning on their spades - Sire of Sorrow Brett > <> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:41:15 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: RE: Cactus Trees and Galleries... At 05:59 AM 8/11/99, P. Henry wrote: >virtually every guy that met her fell in love with her instantly! Intelligent, creative, beautiful, graceful...what's not to like? :-) She has been described as "instantly intimate." And by all accounts of JMDLers who have met her, she is indeed warm, genuine, kind, gracious. Some people have a certain magnetism which draws others toward them. Surely Joni is aware of this special quality that she has...the way she affects those around her...the way they respond to her. Some feel or even see a strong aura when in Joni's presence. Some are nearly speechless and gape in stunned silence when she passes. I find myself shaking my head in utter amazement sometimes when listening to her albums, even after all these years--such is my admiration for her genius. I can only imagine how it must have been in the early stages of her career, live and in person. Thanks Pat for your vivid recollections of those times. Yep, many of us have "fallen in love" with her in one way or another. She can cast a spell with a simple strum of her guitar or a softly-sung lyric. It's this emotional *power* that makes her so very special. "Cactus Tree" has always been one of my many favorites. Difficult as it is to only pick out a few "one-liners," here goes.... "He has kissed her with his freedom..." "He hopes her heart can hear three thousand miles..." "He can think her there beside him..." "He writes 'wish you were beside me'..." "And her heart is full and hollow..." "And you know there may be more..." This is one Joni song that men in particular can really identify with, IMO. It's not about "mama's nylons" or "kick pleat skirts." The actions she describes for this guy are believable and poignant. Even as early as STAS, Joni was examining themes of duality with a heart which at the same time is "full and hollow." But the overwhelming message, again IMO, is that she was looking back at the men in her life while struggling with the idea of "settling down" as opposed to retaining her freedom...a dilemma often faced by both men and women...which only shows that much of her work is truly androgynous. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:41:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: Larry the Riveter (some JC) > <> What about Nathan LaFraneer, our favorite taxi driver? Brian np: NPR, The World === "No paper thin walls No folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:46:39 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: One-liners > Me, too. Its funny how much that album means to me. I wonder, worldwide (or at least listwide) how many people have this connection to "Hejira". It is perfect when you are lost and lonely, but at the same time isn't "maudlin and full of self pity." It is "magnificent" though. Mark in Seattle who loves 'All About Eve' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:57:04 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: RE: Cactus Trees and Galleries... Scott Price wrote: <...the overwhelming message, again IMO, is that she was looking back at the men in her life while struggling with the idea of "settling down" as opposed to retaining her freedom..> scott, that was beautiful! having seen the phenomena of Joni's 'groupies' with their insistance and that glazed over look in their eyes first hand and having to personally 'fend them off', so to speak, I am more inclined to view these lyrics as a very sensitive and empathetic describing of what had been going on... but perhaps you are right. witness the words of another song: "...there are no strings to hold him I guess you could call him so free... yes he's free to be lonely and empty and lost... just like me" pat NP: Helpless - Neil and Joni (from TLW) Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 19:47:35 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: Photo Auction Hello: Ashara has done a great job of fundraising to help cover the costs of running JoniMitchell.com. and inspired me to follow her example. I recently met a woman who is not only a disc jockey, but also a professional photographer and darkroom technician (as well as a Joni fan). Clytia Fuller offered to print 9 poster-sized prints (3 each of 3 images) of my Joni photos (real good) for free. There are still two copies of the #3 photo left, which happens to be the print that Wally has requested to grace the wall of his living room. Wally and I visited this past weekend and we talked about different methods of framing this particular image of Joni. The auction ends on Friday (13th) at 8PM PST. You can read about it at: http://www.jonimitchell.com/MixonAuction799.html Thank you for your support! Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 20:12:17 -0500 From: "Mark Domyancich" Subject: Re: One-liners There is no comparison! ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | |_________________________________| >> Me, too. Its funny how much that album means to me. I wonder, > worldwide (or at least listwide) how many people have this connection > to "Hejira". It is perfect when you are lost and lonely, but at the > same time isn't "maudlin and full of self pity." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 23:19:09 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Resist the Eclipse Hype Part II In a message dated 99-08-11 14:11:35 EDT, guitarzan@saber.net writes: I love this ... <<< and McDonalds would be the official sponsor of the 1999 solar eclipse, etc, etc, etc RR "Lawyers and Loan Sharks are made in America" Marcel Deste ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 23:28:41 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Resist the Eclipse Hype Part II In a message dated 8/11/99 3:07:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, johnsonjs@earthlink.net writes: << Oh, on second thought I guess Perseus Showers aren't as eventful. We would go to a forest preserve where there was also a field, and lie down and just watch them fall from the sky. It was quite stunning actually! jody >> You should try watching them from a mountaintop, as I did in the Colorado Rockies 25 years ago on the night Nixon resigned. It was as if the heavens were celebrating! From above the clouds at such icy altitudes (it's midsummer, so it wasn't so cold), you can see the thousands of different angles at which meteors hit the Earth's atmosphere -- from those that barely skim the highest layers and seem to bounce off to the ones that look like they are bearing right down on you before (hopefully!) flaming out. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 23:12:32 -0500 From: "Mark Domyancich" Subject: Re: Resist the Eclipse Hype Part II Isn't it "Lawyers and loan sharks are laying America to waste?" >"Lawyers and Loan Sharks are made in America" > > Marcel Deste ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:24:46 -0700 From: "Gene Mock" Subject: Re: Cactus Trees and Galleries... Pat, Scott! Please keep the dialogue going, IT'S GREAT! - ----- Original Message ----- From: P. Henry To: Scott Price Cc: Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 5:57 PM Subject: RE: Cactus Trees and Galleries... > > Scott Price wrote: > > <...the overwhelming message, again IMO, is that she was looking back at the men in her life while struggling with the idea of "settling down" as opposed to retaining her freedom..> > > scott, that was beautiful! > > having seen the phenomena of Joni's 'groupies' with their insistance and that glazed over look in their eyes first hand and having to personally 'fend them off', so to speak, I am more inclined to view these lyrics as a very sensitive and empathetic describing of what had been going on... but perhaps you are right. witness the words of another song: > "...there are no strings to hold him I guess you could call him so free... yes he's free to be lonely and empty and lost... just like me" > > pat > > NP: Helpless - Neil and Joni (from TLW) > > > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 22:26:22 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Hello from Australia From: Ashara@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 02:34:59 EDT Hi everyone! Just a quick check in to say G'day! We're 1/3 the way through an incredible trip through the land Down Under. We spent a week with friends that live near Melbourne, and joined Vanessa and one of her "mates" and daughter for dinner. Knowing that Gerald had plans to be at this particular restaurant that evening, we headed for the Continental. I had such an enjoyable evening that night, and no matter how many times I meet fellow listers, I am amazed at how easy it is to fall into a conversation as if we've known each other forever. Vanessa was warm and engaging, and her friend Maggie and daughter Maidlin were delightful. By the end of the evening, as we were having coffee, and still no sign of Gerald. Vanessa got up, and announced she would find him, even though she had no idea of what he looked like. Sure enough, in she came with him, and we were able to have a quick chat before he headed upstairs to see a local band. A wonderful night, and of course, too short. In about a week, I hope to be having dinner with Nicholas, John, and Ange in Sydney. (That is.....if we are still ALIVE after our planned bungee jumping experience in Cairns!) I am so looking forward to the upcoming Jonifest, and really hope that all who are either on the fence, or new to the JMDL and have an interest in coming, make every effort to come to Boston and join us. It really is an incredible experience to get together, and this group is so much fun! Even though I am not presently onlist because of this extended trip, and not able to remind and encourage all of you to come, please consider making the trek to Boston. You'll find it worth your while! :-) I am available via e-mail if you have any questions privately, but not through the list, and the e-mail accessibility will be sporadic since I'm in Aussieland. You can also e-mail the Labor Day list directly and my "henchpeople" can probably answer any questions you have. A reminder to those who are coming: please make sure all your requirements are in, and you've called or e-mailed Laurie if you need a ride to/from the airport. Lastly, I quickly browsed through some of the digests while online, and noticed some newbies. WELCOME!!! I also noticed some requests for video trees. I am very happy to make copies of the video trees for you when I get back to the States, so please be patient, and e-mail me privately after the 25th of August, and I'll be able to help you out. No worries, mates! ;-) Signing off with hugs from Australia, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 00:35:10 EDT From: Bolvangar@aol.com Subject: "The Arrangement" Hello all, I hadn't remembered this being mentioned before -- though it probably was, maybe during the thread about Elia Kazan's honorary Oscar this spring? - -- but today I ran across a Pauline Kael review (I've been reading her a lot lately) of a late '60s film called "The Arrangement," adapted by Kazan from his own novel, which seems to be the source for Joni's song on LOTC. Can anyone give more info? From the unfavorable review: "Even more blatantly than the book, the movie is a noisy glorification of anguish over selling out....'You could have been --' Eddie's girl says, and he asks, 'What?' 'What you could have been,' she replies, in an oracular, accusing tone that suggests Alexander the Great or Shakespeare at the very least." (Joni: "You could have been more.") - --David P.S. Some might find it ironic that Kazan, having testified before the HUAC, should get all wrought up about people selling out? NP: John Parish and Polly Jean Harvey, _Dance Hall at Louse Point_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 00:15:36 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Vg8 Link Sue wrote: "I recently received an email from Esau Simmons who alerted me to the fact that he has a page at www.vg-8.com where people can download Joni Mitchell tuning patches!! He was very appreciative to Jim Leahy, and our compatriats at the JMDL Guitar Page (me, Marian, Howard and Mark) for giving him the info on the tunings." Hi Sue- I discovered this page some time ago and believe I posted it to the list. I am glad you set it up as a link. I have turned many people on to it that have asked me questions about the VG-8. I have been reluctant to put any of my Joni tunings up on that site, but I of course would be more than happy to share them with any member of the JMDL. Did you hear we are planning a tour of the Parker Factory in Ma. on Friday before we go up to Ashara's. We hope to see the new guitar he made for Joni. Cheers, Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 02:00:05 EDT From: Bolvangar@aol.com Subject: Song to a Seagull (long) I've been listening to STAS lately and I had some comments on it. I like it; in some ways I think it's the best of her first three albums. I've mentioned before how I prefer Joni's later conversational lyric style (which I think starts around _Blue_ and is developed over the course of the '70s), with its free flowing speech-like rhythms, to the contrived, airy images and somewhat stilted rhythms ("as if nothing had happened to English prosody since Wordsworth") of her earlier style. So the lyrics have never spoken to me like some of her later ones do, but there is much else for me to appreciate about the album. I like the telling of the story obliquely, elusively, through two voices, in "Pirate," the way the title character is seen and described only through the eyes of the speakers. I think there's one line that sticks out in a bad way, though: "I tell you I was nowhere near the mentioned murder place," because compared to the tantalizing mystery rest of this song ("I guess but I don't know..." "She knows the answer/I don't know"), this line is like something from a Victorian crime melodrama; and I think the song subtly alludes to the murder (e.g., "He'll leave you drowning in the flotsam of a broken promise in the bay") without needing this line to make it obvious. I like "Nathan LaFraneer" and the piano part on "Night in the City." I think "Cactus Tree" is really wonderful. In some ways it seems so different from the rest of the album that it almost doesn't fit: it might even fit better on FTR (as a counterpoint to "Woman of Heart and Mind"?). "I Had a King" is one of my favorites on the album, with its melody and the chorus's description of the broken relationship. ("You know my keys don't fit the door/You know my thoughts don't fit the man/They never can.") There is also one line that kind of makes me wince; it's "the broom of contempt." I can't help but think, and did he sweep into the dustpan of avarice, or the trash can of despair, or something? It's kind of a fine point, but maybe, by way of what I said above about Joni's earlier vs. later styles, this could be contrasted to her use of similar household items (dishwasher, coffee percolator) in "The Last Time I Saw Richard"? In Richard, she picks on them as telling details, as being symbolic in themselves (of materialistic suburban culture); in I Had A King, the broom is just part of a poetic conceit. I think "The Dawntreader"'s music is some of the early Joni's best. The melody is terse and almost ominous (to me), but still romantic, and it's tightly constructed and builds really well over the course of the verse. And the guitar part contrasts the high strings (like the beautiful little figure that opens the song) and low strings (the edgy scraping in the "The roll of the harbor wake" part of the verses), creating this undercurrent of tension. I like the line from the lyrics, "A dream that you tell no one but the grey sea/they'll say that you're crazy." One interesting thing about this album for me is the contrast between the "city" songs and the "seaside" songs. The city ("civilization") is usually associated with noise ("an island of noise in a cobblestone sea"), chaos ("the bedlam of the day"), modernity ("the blossoms hung false on their store window trees"; "the city grated through chrome-plate"), busy-ness, etc. -- though some of us *like* that about it -- while the country ("nature") is relaxation and simplicity. Yet there's a lot more strangeness (or you could say more freedom) and tension in Joni's music on the "seaside" songs than in the "city" songs: the odd chromatic twist of the melody at the end of the verse in "Sisotowbell Lane," the surprising (almost unsettling) chord change on the word "wonder" (et al.) and the chattery melody in "Pirate," the creeping melody of "Dawntreader" and the contrast developed between the high and low guitar strings in "Dawntreader" and in the title track. Another contrast is between the lyrics' character portraits (Michael, Marcie, to a lesser extent Nathan and maybe Joni herself) and Joni's flowery fantasies (mermaids, seagulls, treasure, flashing colors, wars and wine, etc.), even when the fantastic imagery is applied to everyday life -- like observation (external) vs. imagination (internal). - --David NP: _Dance Hall at Louse Point_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 23:28:15 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: People who like Joni gina wrote: gina, that's an excellent point! reminds me of the person who recently posted they'd first turned on to Joni thru DED... awesome! pat NP: I Can't Quit Her - BS&T Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #150 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?