From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #145 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Friday, August 6 1999 Volume 01 : Number 145 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- the things we do for love [Casey Certis-Milby ] Re: Joni one-liners [M.Russell@iaea.org] Joni one-liners [Robert Holliston ] Re: the things we do for love [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: the things we do for love [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Joni one-liners [IVPAUL42@aol.com] One liners [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Joni one-liners (Hejira) [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Joni one-liners [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: Joni one-liners [FMYFL@aol.com] RE: Joni one-liners [Louis Lynch ] RE: Joni one-liners [Don Rowe ] RE: JAZZ TAKES...reviewed in JAZZ TIMES (Sept. issue) ["Brett Code" ] RE: Judy Collins's Hit Song (SJC) ["Brett Code" ] Re: Coyote ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: Joni one-liners [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Joni one-liners, from For the Roses ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: the things we do for love [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Joni one-liners (Hejira) ["Jennifer L. Nodine" ] Meeting other Joni fans ["Catherine McKay" ] Jazz takes ["Catherine McKay" ] SJC - Re. message to the American Garage (Pat Metheny Listener Network) [] RE: Enough with the Judy Bashing! (SJC) ["Brett Code" ] Joni Mention in "Acoustic Guitar" and one-liners [Allison Fernley Subject: the things we do for love This is another "caught unaware" by a new Joni album story. I posted it early this week but it never got through in the list troubles, so I'm trying again. I was prompted by Kakki's comment some time ago: I laughed today remembering my struggling days - there may have been no gas in the car and nothing but pasta in the cupboard but I NEVER went without having the latest Joni album ;-) A true confession about some of my struggling days: I had just moved into the town I still live in prompted by an infatuation. (See: "Two More Bottles of Wine" by Emmylou.) I had no job, was crashing with people I barely knew, was 3000 miles from home and friends and family. I walked into a record store and browsed the Joni and saw Miles of Aisles . I had no idea it existed until that moment, I was blown away - a live album! and I could not bear to live without it. Of course, I had no money to buy it. In my emotional state, but really being old enough to know better and having no excuse, I slipped the cassette into my pocket and made for the door. I was busted! Was given community service hours to perform to pay my debt to society. Enjoyed the work I was doing (with a senior citizens food distribution group) so well I stayed on as a volunteer for many months. Oh yeah, I did find a job and bought a legitimate copy of MoA. And I've given up all my criminal ways and become an upstanding member of the community. So here's my question - what's the worst thing you've ever done for love of Joni? Casey - -- "It is good to have an end to journey towards; but it is the journey that matters in the end." U.K.LeG. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:57:47 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: Joni one-liners I was inspired by Mark's C&S one-liners. Court & Spark ....his eyes were the color of the sand and the sea Help Me ....I've seen some hot hot blazes come down in smoke and ash Free Man in Paris ....If I had my way, I'd just walk through those doors and wander down the Champs d'Elysee People's Parties ....laughin' and cryin' you know it's the same release The Same Situation ....tethered to a ringing telephone in a room full of mirrors Car on a Hill ....he makes friends easy, he's not like me - I watch for judgement anxiously Down to You ....everything comes and goes, marked by lovers and styles of clothes Just Like This Train ....kids with the jitters in their legs and those wide wide open stares Raised On Robbery ....come up to my kitchen, I'll show you my best recipes Trouble Child ....only a river of changing faces looking for an ocean Twisted ....I may have been only three but I was swingin' Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 03:22:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Holliston Subject: Joni one-liners Here are a few of my favorite lines from DJRD and Mingus: Otis and Marlena: "and the neon mercury vapor-stained Miami sky It's red as meat" (now *that's* an image!) Dreamland: "I wrapped that flag around me like a Dorothy Lamour sarong..." Don Juan's Reckless Daughter: (all of it, really, every line's a masterpiece...): "We are all hopelessly oppressed cowards..." Off Night Backstreet: "there are some lines you put there and some you erased" Silky Veils of Ardor: "If I'd only seen through the silky veils of ardor What a killing crime this love can be I would have locked up my heart in a golden sheath of armor And kept its crazy beating under strictest secrecy..." (IMHO, the only singer/songwriter who has ever come close to this lyric is Joni herself, and in many another song. No wonder Elvis Costello speaks so highly of her!) Then there's Mingus: God Must Be a Boogie Man (great, great, great...) The Dry Cleaner from Des Moines: "Like Midas in a polyester suit" (Cole Porter didn't think of it, Noel Coward didn't think of it. Joni did, and it's as brilliant as it is perfect.) Goodbye Porkpie Hat: "The sweetest swinging music man had a Porkie Pig hat on" OK, it doesn't scan as perfectly as her lyrics usually do, but that's an image. And there are, of course, MANY more on just these two albums. Joni's in a really elite group, IMHO. It includes Cole Porter, Stephen Sondheim, and Noel Coward. And some others. They work like stink to get every word, every note exactly right, exactly the way they want it, and they are all ruthlessly self-critical. It doesn't matter how late they have to stay up (as we all know, Joni's a night owl), how long they have to work, they don't settle for anything less than what is absolutely right. They're all called perfectionists, sometimes as if that's an insult. Well, only a perfectionist could have made Court And Spark (and everything else). "Critics of all expressions Judges in black and white Saying it's wrong Saying it's right...." hugs to all, Roberto ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 06:53:39 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: the things we do for love In a message dated 8/6/99 4:14:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, caseycm@cruzio.com writes: << So here's my question - what's the worst thing you've ever done for love of Joni? >> Join this discussion group? Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 06:55:28 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: the things we do for love In a message dated 8/6/99 4:33:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, caseycm@cruzio.com writes: > So here's my question - what's the worst thing you've ever done for love > of Joni? > This is probably the *best* thing I could have done actually, but I turned down a second date with an otherwise really nice guy because he said he thought Joni was ugly. So you see, it would never have worked. The nerve! Gina Gina ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 07:01:23 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni one-liners In a message dated 8/6/99 4:37:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, M.Russell@iaea.org writes: << Raised On Robbery ....come up to my kitchen, I'll show you my best recipes >> I liked your choices, Marian except on this one, I'd go with the previous line: "I'm a real good cook; I'm sitting on my groceries." Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 07:14:07 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: One liners My favorite JM image is from "In France..." ---"kisses like bright flags on a holiday" Wonderful in itself and so unexpected in context. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 07:21:14 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni one-liners (Hejira) In a message dated 8/6/99 2:59:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bolvangar@aol.com writes: > I was inspired to try this by Gina's Hejira one-liners, because I realized > that I'd pick such different ones. Here are mine (song titles unnecessary, > eh?): > And I think that's part of the beauty of this thread. Different lines jump out at us for different reasons. It would be cool to choose a favorite Joni line or two and explain why we think it's brilliant. When we've exhausted this thread, that is. I'm enjoying this a lot! Thanks again, Penny. Take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:46:51 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: Joni one-liners On 8/6/99 IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/6/99 4:37:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > M.Russell@iaea.org writes: > > << Raised On Robbery > ....come up to my kitchen, I'll show you my best recipes >> > > I liked your choices, Marian except on this one, I'd go with the previous > line: "I'm a real good cook; I'm sitting on my groceries." > :^D Yes. This is indeed a better choice! Marian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:16:04 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni one-liners The Magdalene Laundries "These bloodless brides of Jesus" Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 06:36:52 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: Joni one-liners Great thread, these one-liners. I love the clever ones, too, but my favorites are so straightforward, almost obvious, but no one ever said it quite that way before. Some Joni lines just pierce the soul, you know. Sorry if any of these are repeats: Ethiopia She calls your baby "it" while strolling through your tragic trials. You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio If you're head says "forget it," but your heart's still smokin'... Black Crow To pick up on every shining little thing... (aren't we all like crows sometimes?) River Loved me so naughty made me weak in the knees... Cotton Avenue Red sun came rolling over a grey sky... (So simple, but never been said) Played Real Good For Free They knew he had never been on their TV, so they passed his good music by Urge for Going I'll lock the vagrant winter out, and bolt my wandering in Chinese Cafe Caught in the middle, Carol, we're middle class, we're middle aged We look like our mothers did, when we were those kids' age. Circle Game It won't be long now, until you drag your feet just to slow the circles down Raised on Robbery His blood's bad whiskey, he was raised on robbery Case of You I met a woman, she had a mouth like yours, she knew your devils and your deeds Help Me Lying there talking or not talking, didn't it feel good? Ludwig's Tune That broken trees and elephant ivories conceal Coyote A prisoner of the white lines of the freeway Oh, this is fun, but I have to get back to work. Regards, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 06:47:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: RE: Joni one-liners Some of my favorite Joni one-liners actually come from interviews rather than songs. I'm paraphrasing here, as I'm in a hurry, but one comes from the interview with Morrissey, who asks because she confesses to eating meat, if she would eat her cats ... to which Joni replies: "Heavens no! That would be cannibalism!" The other comes from a discussion about her use of jazz, swing, blues and international rhythmic figures ... "Well the white tradition is pretty much polkas, waltzes and funerals, you know." An enjoyable thread, and forgive me if I quote "inexactly" ... Don Rowe _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:15:59 -0600 From: "Brett Code" Subject: RE: JAZZ TAKES...reviewed in JAZZ TIMES (Sept. issue) David, I can't tell you how pleased I am that you are doing another cd with JM songs on it. Due to a delivery mess up when I ordered the first one from CDNow last April, I just received Jazz Takes last week. I've listened to it every day and love it. Perhaps the greatest thing is that my father, who lumps all non-jazz together in the crap category, really enjoyed it, too. I'm buying him a copy of Jazz Takes, then a few months later, I'll let him experience the real thing. It would be great (I've always thought it would be a miracle, really) if I could turn my Dad into a Joni fan thanks to you and your disc. Thanks, Brett - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Dflahm@aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 9:34 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: JAZZ TAKES...reviewed in JAZZ TIMES (Sept. issue) May I brag a little? This is a major pub (costs $4.95) and the reviewer had only positive things to say; the exact reaction I was hoping for through all my work on it. Especially nice is the opening: "In a reverent and adventurous tribute to one of our greatest modern songwriters..." (The only questionable words are "one of" IMO.) And it looks like there will be another Lahm CD on Arkadia Jazz, at least half of which will be songs by Joni Mitchell. Choosing the material has been a real adventure, because I thought I had already skimmed off the cream of the repertoire that was suitable for jazz instrumentals. Happily.....I was wrong. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 07:21:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Enough with the Judy Bashing! (SJC) It seems we've turned to Judy-bashing here on the jmdl, in a nasty tone of voice and turns of phrase usually reserved for our resident agitator, Al Date! ;-) Well enough is enough people. How quickly we forget that it was Judy who first brought Joni's songs to a wider audience than could fit into a Greenwich Village basement cafe. And I'll bet real money that if you asked a random sampling of people "Who wrote the song 'Both Sides Now'?", many more would answer Judy Collins than Joni Mitchell to this very day. A heady accomplishment for "an insect." I would also humbly submit that those in wailing and lamentation over the "decline" of Joni's voice show a little more respect for Ms. Collins. Her voice, one of the finest musical instruments from the gitgo, has only improved over her career. Her command of control, phrasing, power and clarity remain unequalled. Joni could also learn a couple of lessons in gratitude and humility from Judy. She has certainly been no less slighted by the "star maker machinery" of the music business, but refuses to lash out with the kind of harsh whining that has made even us die-hard Joni fans cringe when we see it in the press. Instead she carries herself with a dignity and gracious appreciation for her fans that is a commodity as rare as her voice. There, I've defended her honor, and I feel much better for having done so. Don Rowe _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:22:52 -0600 From: "Brett Code" Subject: RE: Judy Collins's Hit Song (SJC) Thank you, thank you thank you!!! This is something that the world has needed to hear for decades. But Judy is no worse than all the other divas who sing the songs of others with no feeling, no understanding, and no real passion. Compare Judy and the others to Annie Lennox on "Medusa". She can do a good cover. Interesting, too, how close her version of 'Ladies of the Canyon' is to Joni's - shows respect, intimacy, understanding. Down with Judy!!! (Of course, I think Joni is still thankful for the copyright "pennies" she received thanks to Judy) Brett ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:22:56 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: JAZZ TAKES...reviewed in JAZZ TIMES (Sept. issue) David bragged: <> Brag away David, your record is great, congratulations on the success with it. But as far as thinking you've "skimmed the cream", I would think you could do jazz takes on Joni for eternity! :~) Bob NP: Mingus, "Song With Orange" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:28:09 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Chalkmark in the Woods Daniel related: <> Sort of like Joni sleeping out in the desert on the art for that record, that sounds like a nice way to enjoy Joni. I'm sure whenever you hear it now you're instantly transported to the AT... And it's probably the ONLY time Billy Idol's hiked the Appalachian Trail! :~) And also, welcome to the group! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:37:18 -0400 From: Anne Rickaby Subject: RE: the things we do for love Well, I almost ruined my chance at going to college. Tickets for a Joni concert went on sale on a very stormy Saturday morming in January '74. I was supposed to take the college boards in French and Spanish (although I only really needed to take one of them). So, I only took the French boards, hurried through them, gambled that the scores would be good enough (they were), then went to the theatre box office to buy the tickets. Meanwhile, most of the city was paralyzed under a sheet of ice. It was definitely worth it! Anne - -----Original Message----- From: Casey Certis-Milby [mailto:caseycm@cruzio.com] Sent: Friday, August 06, 1999 3:45 AM To: JMDL Digest Subject: the things we do for love This is another "caught unaware" by a new Joni album story. I posted it early this week but it never got through in the list troubles, so I'm trying again. I was prompted by Kakki's comment some time ago: I laughed today remembering my struggling days - there may have been no gas in the car and nothing but pasta in the cupboard but I NEVER went without having the latest Joni album ;-) A true confession about some of my struggling days: I had just moved into the town I still live in prompted by an infatuation. (See: "Two More Bottles of Wine" by Emmylou.) I had no job, was crashing with people I barely knew, was 3000 miles from home and friends and family. I walked into a record store and browsed the Joni and saw Miles of Aisles . I had no idea it existed until that moment, I was blown away - a live album! and I could not bear to live without it. Of course, I had no money to buy it. In my emotional state, but really being old enough to know better and having no excuse, I slipped the cassette into my pocket and made for the door. I was busted! Was given community service hours to perform to pay my debt to society. Enjoyed the work I was doing (with a senior citizens food distribution group) so well I stayed on as a volunteer for many months. Oh yeah, I did find a job and bought a legitimate copy of MoA. And I've given up all my criminal ways and become an upstanding member of the community. So here's my question - what's the worst thing you've ever done for love of Joni? Casey - -- "It is good to have an end to journey towards; but it is the journey that matters in the end." U.K.LeG. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 14:20:27 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Coyote Woo, am I embarassed. I AM Canadian. I should remember that stuff from Grade 5 geography. At one time, not only did I know the names of the capitals of all the Canadian provinces, but of all the United States as well. I always get Nova Scotia and New Brunswick mixed up. It would probably help if I actually went there. >From: Heather Galli >To: "Catherine McKay" >CC: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Coyote >Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:44:43 -0500 > > >Anyone wonder why Coyote is "too far from the Bay of Fundy, from >Appaloosas > >and eagles and tides?" The Bay of Fundy is in Nova Scotia. > >Actually the Bay of Fundy is in New Brunswick. We camped and bicycled >there. It *IS* beautiful and I can see why Joni would reference such a >place! The Hopewell beach is where some of the quickest, largest tides in >the world are located. When the tide goes out you can see what remains of >the little islands known as the Hopewell flower pots. I can send a picture >to anyone who is interested. >New Brunswick is a pretty desolate province and I did see horses while I >was there. >You could be correct about someone from the east going west. >I hope that was somewhat enlightening :-) Any Cannucks care to chip in >here? > >Heather > > What is a > >coyote/cowboy doing there? Appaloosas to me suggest a western theme. > >Eagles could be anywhere. Tides, only by the ocean. But the Bay of >Fundy? > >That's Nova Scotia. > > > >Is Coyote really some b'y from down east who went west to be a cowboy? > > > >Can anyone enlighten me? > > > >cateri@hotmail.com > > > > > >______________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:35:54 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: RE: Joni one-liners Don quotes some conversation: <> I love it when she talks about her preference for writing in the jazz idiom because there aren't any "wrong" notes, "you hit the wrong note twice and it's right"... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 14:45:48 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Joni one-liners, from For the Roses Kakki, that is totally scary. I could have written that myself. You've picked what are (to me) THE chilling, thrilling lines out of all those songs. (Cue the soundtrack from the Twilight Zone - or is it the Outer Limits?) DOO doo doo doo, DOO doo doo doo etc. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:51:07 -0400 From: Anne Rickaby Subject: RE: Judy collin's Hit Song (SJC) Hi Brett (and everyone). Actually, it's "royalty pennies" and (correct me if I'm wrong) but I think Joni's talking about how Bob Dylan wrote [oh, now I forget which song] out of scraps of several songs and how she had done the same with the song that had a line about 'laying odds' that her mother didn't want her to record :-) ...oh, well some brain cells are still alive, and some surrounding ones are clearly dormant... Cheers. Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:47:11 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: the things we do for love Casey, hardened criminal that she is, asks: <> Tough question, Casey. At first I was going to mention the time I sold crack to school children so I could buy Night Ride Home, but then I thought about the time I had to beat the crap out of an old lady to take her For The Roses songbook from her, but then I finally settled on the worst thing I did for love of Joni: When my wife came with me to see Joni in Atlanta, she made me stop at the outlet mall in Commerce, GA and SHOP FOR CLOTHING WITH HER!!! Aaaaaaaaaggggggghhhhhhhhhh! :~D But really, even that wasn't so bad knowing that I was on the road to seeing Joni in concert! Bob NPIMH: 10CC, "The Things We Do For Love" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 10:54:53 -0400 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Subject: Re: Joni one-liners (Hejira) Bolvangar@aol.com wrote: > > I was inspired to try this by Gina's Hejira one-liners, because I realized > that I'd pick such different ones. Here are mine (song titles unnecessary, > eh?): i, too was so inspired. And I was also slightly dissapointed when I read yours, because a few of them were MY favorites...and you got to say them first! (childish, yes, I know ;-) ) Coyote ...But this flame, you put here in this esquimo... Amelia ... And looking down on everything, I crashed into his arms... Furry Sings the Blues ...the old girl is silent across the street, silent,...staring at her stolen name... A Strange Boy ...but I failed, "grow up!" I cried, and as the smoke was clearing he said, "give me one good reason why"... Hejira > > Each so deep and superficial between the forceps and the stone > YOU GOT IT!!! (I think this one may be my all-time fav Joni one-liner) Song for Sharon ...you know it was white lace I was chasin; chasin dreams... Black Crow > I looked at the morning after being up all night > I looked at my haggard face in the bathroom light > (Agreed) but I also love the next line, I looked out the window and I saw that ragged soul take flight... Blue Motel Room ...Palm trees in the porchlight stick like cellophane... Refuge of the Roads ...we laughed how our perfection would always be denied... Thanks to whoever got this string started, it was a really fun one. Jenny CT ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 15:09:17 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Meeting other Joni fans You said: "I'm straying a bit but, I was wondering how many of you have met Joni fans aside from the jmdl?" A couple of comments on that. First, for a while a thread has been running about how grateful we all are when we find another Joni fan, someone who appreciates her, her music, her lyrics, whatever. The feeling I get from this, and I certainly appreciate it, is that we're all coming out of some kind of Joni closet or as if we all belong to some kind of secret cult where we have to put out feelers to find out if the other person is one of us before we can confess our mutual love for Joni. I've always felt that way but isn't it weird? I've never been the kind of person to go around proclaiming my fan-dom for anyone. When I was a kid around 12 or 13 and the Monkees were hot, I always felt like a weirdo because I didn't ooh and aah and scream and swoon over them and I didn't have a favourite Monkee. I would have to fake it and just name one so people would just leave me the hell alone about it. I enjoyed their TV show - - it was actually pretty damn funny - and their music (pre-fab tho' it was), but I always felt the outsider in that kind of stuff. Then a year or so later, I first heard Joni and she was my soul mate. I really hate being gaga over artists like that, but the woman spoke to me then and still speaks to me now. (I wonder tho' if we'd hate each other if we ever did get to meet? I don't even want to think of it - I picture a Wayne's World kind of thing "I am not worthy! I am not worthy!" She is just such a fine lyricist, such a wonderful musician, such a unique talent and god, I'd kill to look like her! But alas, misunderstood and under-appreciated by most people - which seems to indicate that the "average" intelligence is probably a lot lower than we would like to think. I guess it's all of us super-intelligent types that skew the stats ;) To get to my point... Although all three of my sisters like Joni and all of them have at least one or two of her albums, I was always the rabid Joniphile of the family. The first real Joni fan I met was a co-worker of mine, with whom I still stay in touch, although not, unfortunately, as often as I should. Going back close to 20 years ago now, she had recently started working in the same office I was in and it was the annual office Christmas bash. I worked in a government office (still do, but not the same one) and it was decided that year that the various "units" of our branch would do skits in order to improve staff morale, always an issue in gov't offices;) At the time, we were watching a bunch of accountants, normally staid, no-nonsense facts&figures guys, dressed in drag a la Carmen Miranda, covered with balloons, dressed in hula skirts and hats with fruit on their head (or some other such unlikely combination) dancing the conga to Barry Manilow's "Copa Cabana". (Can you dig it?) Somehow the two of us got talking and found out we both played guitar, at which point, she asked me who I liked and I said Joni Mitchell, never suspecting the reaction I would get. She jumped up in the air, practically hugged me and said how much she loved Joni Mitchell. We got to talking about Joni and my friend told me that the reason she had come to Canada in the first place (from Wales) was because of Joni Mitchell. I'm not sure whether she thought she might find Joni somewhere here because by this time, of course, she was already in LA, but after that, we used to get together regularly and play guitar together and share our ideas on chords to use for various Joni songs. Another few out of the Joni-closet. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 15:13:57 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Jazz takes Brag on - and go for it! cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 23:15:05 +0800 From: "Australian Seashells" Subject: SJC - Re. message to the American Garage (Pat Metheny Listener Network) Simone in Western Australia e-mail: shells@seashells.net.au Hi, everyone! This is a first post to the list. I simply can't keep up with all that gets posted on this list (I "digest"), but do enjoy for the most part whatever I manage to read - Thank you very much for enjoyment and occasional LOL, everyone.. I'm not sure whether YOU"LL enjoy this, but I just came across the following interesting bit posted under the thread "Istanbul concert" on the Pat Metheny website. It's a reply to a disillusioned fan who didn't enjoy a piece of music at a Metheny jazz trio concert in Istanbul and claimed it spoiled the event for him. From: Lloyd Aug 04 1999 01:23AM There are a number of fans who prefer the group sound as opposed to any other project that Pat may venture into. Then of course there are those who prefer what he does outside of the group context. But how many musicians or even "artists" are there that are brave enough or have the courage to step outside of a specific element knowing that it may alienate certain followers or fans? But probably more importantly, how many artists are there in any era that have the imagination and creativity to explore so many contrasting styles of a specific art form? I have never been able to understand those that believe an artist should have to meet certain expectations from any other individual(s). Isn't a person's art an expression and extension of their imagination and in some cases, their soul? And if that is not the case, then someone tell me how one can possibly try to meet every expectation at every performance??? I think there are many of us who have come to appreciate the very thought that on any given night, we may be on the receiving end of something new and unexpected. That's part of the beauty and excitement of an evening of music by Pat.... It's also one of the reasons that many of us have been fans for over 20 years now. We can't wait for what's coming next. Does that ring a bell with you, too? All the arguing about which album or song or live performance is better than another one or is more or less accessible, have me bemused a bit sometimes, I have to confess. I always found JM very much of an explorer in all kinds of (mostly unexpected) directions. She inspires me to look for this kind of thing (finding out how far you can go?) in myself and others. It is something that never ends and will always have me turn unexpected corners into new territory. Quality (for want of another word) has to be experienced to be recognizable, so whatever form it takes, it's a real eye-opener that works like a catalyst. To illustrate this: For instance, the basic thought expressed in "Borderline" has been discussed in ancient Greece (and probably before that) and determines to this day i.e. primary rules in Physics, Geometry, Philosophy, Rethorics, etc. This is fundamental stuff indeed. Just thinking about the implications of that one will have my thoughts go in completely unforseeable directions. (Among other things I deducted that there is no devil and I had to grudgingly admit to myself that I'm probably 100% selfish) I have learned a lot about Joni since I stumbled across Wally's site (and this list of course)and I am deeply grateful for all this background info I never knew existed before. It does give a lot more scope to much of the song/lyric material to know the context. But I increasingly get the impression I am only seeing half (or much less) of the picture. What about her Painting? Wouldn't you & I love to see more of that! (Or rather: View the Painter Mitchell properly for the first time ever! With old work, new work and everything in between!). Can I sign a petition or list or something clamoring for an exhibition in a gallery somewhere? I'd travel to the US for that. Probably needs funding and a lot of organisation. Don't you think there might be enough interest for a project like this? What does her label/management think? Well, that was my penny's worth. Sorry it's so long. Simone NP Angelique Kidjo Fifa (Cat sits ON the computer & purrs, the rat) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:35:01 -0600 From: "Brett Code" Subject: RE: Enough with the Judy Bashing! (SJC) Nicely said, Don. I agree with the things you have said. Why is it that I still agree with Roberto? I guess I'll have to think about it some more. Brett ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:40:47 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: Enough with the Judy Bashing! (SJC) Well said, Don. Joni is a gifted musical genius, a one-of-a-kind in this century. But that does not diminish Judy Collins' formidable talent. And Judy has been a sincere friend and fan of Joni Mitchell for many years. Judy has a beautiful voice, bell-like and unique styling. Also, some of the material she has written (based on her own life and pain) is on par with any other folk songwriter. Hearing Judy perform her own songs will give you more than one goosebump, guaranteed. As a singer, Judy has been able to bring the works of other songwriters to life. She is a true "stylist." Even though fans may prefer to hear the songs of their idols performed by their idols (Randy Newman, Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen, Joni), I'm sure the songwriters were all honored and pleased to hear Judy's gifted interpretations of them. I know I would be ecstatic if a talent like Judy Collins would sing one of my songs! Before you bash her, read the text inside the "Judy Collin Songbook." You will find that she's a remarkable woman. Of course, Joni Mitchell is my all-time favorite. And of course, I prefer her version of "Both Sides Now" to Judy's. But both versions, like both singers, are well worth the listen. I can listen to the same Joni album for days continuously without getting bored. I can't say the same for Judy Collins' work, but I love to hear her sing once in a while. We can be separated or united by our differences. The determining factor is if we appreciate each other. Regards, Harper Lou - -----Original Message----- From: Don Rowe [mailto:dgrowe227@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, August 06, 1999 10:21 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Enough with the Judy Bashing! (SJC) It seems we've turned to Judy-bashing here on the jmdl, in a nasty tone of voice and turns of phrase usually reserved for our resident agitator, Al Date! ;-) Well enough is enough people. How quickly we forget that it was Judy who first brought Joni's songs to a wider audience than could fit into a Greenwich Village basement cafe. And I'll bet real money that if you asked a random sampling of people "Who wrote the song 'Both Sides Now'?", many more would answer Judy Collins than Joni Mitchell to this very day. A heady accomplishment for "an insect." I would also humbly submit that those in wailing and lamentation over the "decline" of Joni's voice show a little more respect for Ms. Collins. Her voice, one of the finest musical instruments from the gitgo, has only improved over her career. Her command of control, phrasing, power and clarity remain unequalled. Joni could also learn a couple of lessons in gratitude and humility from Judy. She has certainly been no less slighted by the "star maker machinery" of the music business, but refuses to lash out with the kind of harsh whining that has made even us die-hard Joni fans cringe when we see it in the press. Instead she carries herself with a dignity and gracious appreciation for her fans that is a commodity as rare as her voice. There, I've defended her honor, and I feel much better for having done so. Don Rowe _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 11:57:38 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell3" Subject: Re: Enough with the Judy Bashing! (SJC) Thank you Don. That was very nice. I also like Judy quite a bit, but in a different way than Joni. Judy is more of a vocalist, while Joni is more of a songwriter. I think that both do great things, that are totally different from each other. It has always pissed me off that they often get lumped together because they both had long hair and guitars thirty years ago. I think that Judy is more gracious about her successes and failures. At any given moment, you can pick up a magazine and see a Joni quote criticizing or complaining about something or other. She's unnecessarily nasty a lot of the time. Judy tours, writes, acts, makes public appearances and records constantly, and always seems to be having a good time. About 5 years ago I was going through a bad time. There was a particular Judy song that grabbed my attention at the time, and I wrote her a quick note of thanks or whatever, because I wanted her to know that something she had done was having a positive effect on this one soul. I received a very nice (and totally unsolicited) reply about a month later; very encouraging and offering suggestions...etc. etc. She took the time to reply and let me know that my problems were valid and that she understood, and was pleased that her art could help in some small way. I really don't get the impression that Joni would do this. I am not Joni bashing here. I love Joni. Her music has and continues to make a huge difference in umpteen areas of my life. I just got my back up with all the Judy bashing. Try Judy's 1982 album "Times Of Our Lives". Its a good one. And read her book "Singing Lessons" from last year. She's definitely got style and class. My 2, Reuben >>> Don Rowe 08/06/99 10:21AM >>> It seems we've turned to Judy-bashing here on the jmdl, in a nasty tone of voice and turns of phrase usually reserved for our resident agitator, Al Date! ;-) Well enough is enough people. How quickly we forget that it was Judy who first brought Joni's songs to a wider audience than could fit into a Greenwich Village basement cafe. And I'll bet real money that if you asked a random sampling of people "Who wrote the song 'Both Sides Now'?", many more would answer Judy Collins than Joni Mitchell to this very day. A heady accomplishment for "an insect." I would also humbly submit that those in wailing and lamentation over the "decline" of Joni's voice show a little more respect for Ms. Collins. Her voice, one of the finest musical instruments from the gitgo, has only improved over her career. Her command of control, phrasing, power and clarity remain unequalled. Joni could also learn a couple of lessons in gratitude and humility from Judy. She has certainly been no less slighted by the "star maker machinery" of the music business, but refuses to lash out with the kind of harsh whining that has made even us die-hard Joni fans cringe when we see it in the press. Instead she carries herself with a dignity and gracious appreciation for her fans that is a commodity as rare as her voice. There, I've defended her honor, and I feel much better for having done so. Don Rowe _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 11:37:49 -0500 From: "Mark Domyancich" Subject: Hejira one-liners Coyote white lines of the freeway Amelia it was the hexagram of the heavens, it was the strings of my guitar Furry Sings The Blues i don't like you A Strange Boy we were fire in the stiff-blue-haired-house-rules - -anybody care to take a stab at that one? Hejira between the forceps and the stone Song For Sharon i've got the apple of temptation and a diamond snake around my arm Black Crow diving down to pick up on any shining thing Blue Motel Room honey, tell 'em you've got germs Refuge of the Roads westbound and rolling Sorry if these were repeats! ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 11:19:17 -0600 From: Allison Fernley Subject: Joni Mention in "Acoustic Guitar" and one-liners Forgive me if someone already posted this (sometimes the digests get inexplicably truncated so I'm not sure what I might have missed). Sept. edition of Acoustic Guitar features a cover story on Nancy Wilson "Guitar Queen of Heart." I really don't know Heart at all, aside from "These Dreams," which I've always loved. However, the story reports this: "Thrown into this mix of musical influences [Dylan has just been mentioned]was a large dose of Joni Mitchell, whose use of altered tunings changed the way Nancy Wilson looked at guitar. 'Joni Mitchell figured in for me from her very first album,' Wilson recalled. "her tunings were like a gift from above.'" Whoever originated those tunings, I love to see them credited to Joni. As I've said before, the tunings, as illuminating as they are, could be used by anyone, but it's what Joni does with them, how she seems to define them as her own with her chord progressions, surprises, fingerstyle riffs (those moments in "I had a King" still give me chills) that turn them into her "belongings" for me--oh, and I left out, those amazing lyrics she uses to outfit them. She makes them one-of-a-kinds. A couple of one-liners: Amelia: Maybe I've never really loved, I guess that is the truth/I've spent my whole life in clouds at icy altitudes. Down to You: Things that you held high and told yourself were true/Lost and changing as the days come down to you. Hejira: Chicken scratching for my immortality And there are about a million more. Allison F. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:18:34 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: SJC - Re. message to the American Garage (Pat Metheny Listen Simone said: <> First off, thanks for your first post Simone & welcome! Second, I don't think you should refer to the discussion as arguing, that gives the impression that we're fighting here, and that rarely happens (not much over Joni anyway). For me, it may seem childish to "rank" Joni's work or concerts or VH1's top 10 female artists, but if it sparks a good discussion, then it's all worthwhile! I find that by listening to someone passionately defend a Joni song or album, or another artist, it helps me to better appreciate them myself and at the same time to constantly challenge myself as to why I like a particular piece... Bob NP: Marshall Tucker Band, "Long Hard Ride" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:32:01 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: re: The things we do for love In a message dated 8/6/99 4:14:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, caseycm@cruzio.com writes: << So here's my question - what's the worst thing you've ever done for love of Joni? >> The worst thing I did (which isn't that bad) was during Joni's concert in Atlanta. After watching Bob M. sell crack to school children, I helped my friend David Mingus, who along with Whirly Pearl were the official JMDL reporters. I was helping David setup his camera equipment prior to the concert. The security guard asked David and Pearl to show their press pass which they did. He asked me if I had one and I lied and said yes. (Sorry Wally) He never asked me to show one, so I got to stand up against the stage and see Joni up close, while pretending to shoot photos with a broken camera......................You know you all would have done the same thing! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 14:04:54 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Enough with the Judy Bashing! (SJC) Don wrote: <> I now feel like I came down too hard on Judy Collins. While I don't care for her voice or her interpretations, I did read sections from her autobiography (quite a bit of the book, actually) and does come across as a very sincere, gracious and truly mature human being. I really felt for her in the sections on depression and her son's suicide. She is a brave and sensitive woman. And that she is the subject of Stephen Stills' passionate song, Suite: Judy Blues Eyes is no surprise. I'd like to thank those who spoke up for Judy Collins. And I feel awful now for having been so hasty. And I do like one song of hers very much: Cook With Honey, is it? And just to get in a litte JC, I'd like to ask (I think this has been brought up here before), what else by Joni Mitchell did Judy Collins record besides Both Sides, if anything? I thought there was another but it won't come to me now. I had written: "I can't stand Judy Collins" and I hang my head in shame...well...not really ...but I do feel bad. Take care, Gina NP: Warm Love - Joan Armatrading ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 14:26:25 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Hejira one-liners Mark asks: <> I assume you're looking for an interpretation, Mark. Mine has always been that the "blue-haired" (old lady with beauty shop hair) house rules around curfews, appropriate behavior, sleeping arrangements, etc. were violated with the fiery passion of the "newly lovers". She revisits the theme again in "Facelift"when she talks of how Myrtle was shamed when she & Donald were "making love without a license, same old sacred cow". And back to the original line, the WAY she sings "fire" in that line displays the excited passion she's feeling...it's not just that she can write lines like these, but she can emote them like NO ONE else... Bob NP: Alan Parsons Project, "One More River" ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #145 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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