From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #141 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, August 4 1999 Volume 01 : Number 141 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Sometimes it just hits me [TreyCozy@aol.com] Re: Joni tablatures and tunings - how do you do it? [M.Russell@iaea.org] Judy Collin's hit song [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com] Re: Sometimes it just hits me [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com] Re: Joni tablatures and tunings - how do you do it? [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/Flu] Treed "DJRD" Comment [Medric Faulkner ] marianne faithfull [Bern44105@aol.com] Re: Joni tablatures and tunings - how do you do it? [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: marianne faithfull ["Reuben Bell3" ] RE: Joni tablatures and tunings - how do you do it? [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: Sometimes it just hits me [luvart@snet.net] Leonard Cohen and "The Priest" [Mary Pitassi ] Re: Sometimes it just hits me ["Chad Burkhart" ] Re: Joni in the movie "Love" [FMYFL@aol.com] Plug Of The Week #30 ["Peter Holmstedt" ] Joni poster-photos [Wally Breese ] LAst call for Bay Area (San Francisco) get together [DARICEM@sfpl.lib.ca.] Roberta Joan Anderson anagrams [Dflahm@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 03:12:25 EDT From: TreyCozy@aol.com Subject: Re: Sometimes it just hits me Our own Pam writes: << Sometimes I feel like she is just part of me, that I know her as I know myself. Some of you might think this is bogus or BS, but she really does this to me. She has been a part of me so long, that sometimes she just hits me. >> That is such an incredible way of putting it. I feel the same way. It's like having a secret that most of the world doesn't know. Nothing can compare to that feeling that comes sometimes -- she literally has the power to sweep you away. One specific time I can remember was once when I was lying in the dark, and suddenly "I Think I Understand" came on. I just sat there and absorbed every morsel of it. Sheer beauty. I truly think that most people here -- on the list -- have experienced this. What a gift it is. It's like being able to see a rainbow while most of the rest of the world is saying: "WHERE?? WHERE??" Trey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:52:26 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: Joni tablatures and tunings - how do you do it? On Mon, 2 Aug 1999 04:51:00 EDT, CarltonCT@aol.com wrote: > Once again, I want to thank Sue M. and Howard W. > and Mark D. and Marion and all the rest who have > figured out Joni's tunings and tabs and made them > available to us. But just how do you guys do it? To figure out a tuning that I think is different from any other I've encountered, I listen to the beginning of the song over and over and over, and play around with the tunings of the individual strings until I find what I think is the tuning. This doesn't always work out to be exactly the tuning that Joni used, however. For example, I had worked out a version of Strange Boy in what I thought was the tuning, but then Howard came along with a tuning the same as mine except for one of the strings, and when I tried playing his version, I was sure that he was right - changing that one string made a very subtle difference that enabled Joni's sounds. I also worked out a version of the song Love in a different-than-Joni tuning which sounded good to me, but it wasn't Joni's tuning - Howard found the right one. So we can figure out stuff, but we aren't always right. The interesting thing here, though, is not whether we are right or wrong, but the fact that it's possible to play the same song in different tunings and still sound okay - and even "right" to the average listener - certain tunings are easily interchanged - e.g. you can play Marcie in Joni's Marcie tuning or in her BSN tuning. Another point, though, is if it doesn't sound exactly right to you, don't take our word for it! Play around and maybe you'll find out what it really should be. It is interesting for all of us when new tunings are found. Like Mark said, if a song is in a tuning I already know, usually most of the chord shapes are known because of knowing them from other songs in that tuning. For me, finding the chord shapes seems very easy once I know the tuning. I think Mark also said this. When I'm figuring out a song, I listen to the recording over and over and over and try to play along, using chord shapes I already know if it's a familiar tuning or playing around with different possibilities if it's a new tuning. I can usually hear it if something I'm doing isn't working, so I'll backspace the CD to the trouble spot and replay it over and over and over, trying to find the right thing, until I finally get it. I find it very tedious to transcribe in great detail - as in tablature. For Cotton Avenue, I started out in a totally other tuning than where I ended up - - I realized the tuning was different after I had nearly completed transcribing the Overture part and I had to change the tuning and start over. The whole process took several months and was very frustrating at times. Transcribing Tin Angel was also a difficult process. I'm kind of lazy as a guitar player - I mean, I think I often leave out some of the details - and I felt like I had to make the tablature transcriptions really exact for other people, which required listening to very short segments over and over and trying to write them down and that was very hard for me. I much prefer just giving people the chord shapes - the general idea - and telling them to listen for the details! > Also, is it possible that there are some songs Joni > never did in concert because they are too difficult to > pick and sing at the same time? I have never heard > her do Barangrill or Electricity as an example. I think I have heard a live recording of Electricity but I don't know where. Maybe I'm just remembering my guitar soulmate Terry's wonderful recreation of this song in Pittsburgh last year. I've seen at least one other person on the list mention how much fun they were having playing Barangrill. Neither song is very difficult to learn to play and sing at the same time. As far as I know, the only song where Joni actually said anything about not being able to play and sing at the same time was Harlem in Havana. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:21:10 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Judy Collin's hit song Paul said: <> I'm with Phyliss on this misstatement...the writer said ""her OWN hit song", which to my ears and eyes would imply that she was the song's creator. Take that word out and it sounds much more accurate. She doesn't own the song, it was lent to her. PS: I also extend a tip o' the hat to Siresorrow for posting this - very difficult but interesting reading... Bob NP: XTC, "Ladybird" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:23:11 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Sometimes it just hits me Pam confesses: <> Well, you were out of line, and she is not to blame...:~D Bob NP: XTC, "Me & The Wind" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:29:38 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Joni tablatures and tunings - how do you do it? Marian, Joni tuning guru, shares: <> Marian, hopefully you will be playing this song at Ashara's - I'd love to hear it! <> I'm sure this is true, but I'll bet doing "Smokin'" is equally difficult, what with having to rhythmically play that cigarette machine and all... :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 06:03:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Medric Faulkner Subject: Treed "DJRD" Comment I wore out the live version of DJRD on #8 over the weekend. As great as the Atlanta concert was, I have to admit a pang of disappointment at not hearing this one. It seems to me remembering back to the live version of Cotton Avenue in '83 that Joni's live treatment of works that are "before their time" may make them more accessible to a larger audience. Just had to get that out. Medric _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:45:49 EDT From: Bern44105@aol.com Subject: marianne faithfull Another excellent Faithfull album is called: A Child's Adventure, a 1983 Island Record's release. Anyone share my enthusiasm for that one? Bern ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:15:22 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni tablatures and tunings - how do you do it? In a message dated 8/3/99 3:56:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, M.Russell@iaea.org writes: << Maybe I'm just remembering my guitar soulmate Terry's wonderful recreation of this song in Pittsburgh last year. I've seen at least one other person on the list mention how much fun they were having playing Barangrill. >> Marian, Thanks for the kind words. Electricity is one of my all time fav Joni songs, so over the years, I've played it hundreds of times. Still, I'm amazed at how you and others are able to figure out tunings from listening to a CD. Re: playing songs in other tunings- I play Morning Morgantown and a few others in her Electricity tuning. Boy, that auto tuned guitar is looking more and more appealing. I wish they'd make them for acoustic guitars! Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 10:41:57 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell3" Subject: Re: marianne faithfull >>> 08/03/99 09:45AM >>> Another excellent Faithfull album is called: A Child's Adventure, a 1983 Island Record's release. Anyone share my enthusiasm for that one? Bern That's actually my favorite one of the lot. Broken English never did much for me. I always thought it was kind of a shame that it had that sort of generic reggae sound to it from Compass Point. A Child's Adventure has a much broader sound to it. I love When Will The Morning Come and The Blue Millionaire and She's Got A Problem. I just got her Rich Kid's Blues album recently, too. Its pretty good. Reuben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:56:01 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: Joni tablatures and tunings - how do you do it? On Tuesday, August 3, 1999 2:29 PM, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com wrote: > Marian, hopefully you will be playing this song [Cotton Avenue] at > Ashara's - I'd love to hear it! > Yes. I have been practicing it and am hoping to play it as a duet with Mark D. Last year, I didn't really know the singing part of it very well - had only learned the Overture part by heart - and unfortunately, the singing part was the part that got recorded for all to see! Embarrassing, to say the least! > < not being able to play and sing at the same time was Harlem in Havana.>> > > I'm sure this is true, but I'll bet doing "Smokin'" is equally difficult, > what with having to rhythmically play that cigarette machine and all... > :~) > :^D Not to mention having to cart the damn thing around! It's such a clever song and it would be great to see her perform that one live! Marian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 10:56:43 -0400 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: Sometimes it just hits me At 03:12 AM 8/3/99 EDT, you wrote: >Our own Pam writes: > ><< Sometimes I feel like she is just part of me, that I > know her as I know myself. Some of you might think > this is bogus or BS, but she really does this to me. > She has been a part of me so long, that sometimes she > just hits me. >> > >That is such an incredible way of putting it. I feel the same way. It's >like having a secret that most of the world doesn't know. Nothing can >compare to that feeling that comes sometimes -- she literally has the power >to sweep you away. One specific time I can remember was once when I was >lying in the dark, and suddenly "I Think I Understand" came on. I just sat >there and absorbed every morsel of it. Sheer beauty. > >I truly think that most people here -- on the list -- have experienced this. >What a gift it is. It's like being able to see a rainbow while most of the >rest of the world is saying: "WHERE?? WHERE??" > You two really hit a button here .... I'll be driving in my car and get so involved in one of Joni's songs (most any one!) that I will loose direction of where I was going. One of the many songs that does it for me is Same Situation from C&S. You are correct, Trey, it *IS* like having a secret that many don't know about. For many years I thought I was alone ... listening to Joni in my own little world. Thanks to this list, I now can share my love for Joni's music with many others! Heather Heather ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:25:44 -0500 From: Mary Pitassi Subject: Leonard Cohen and "The Priest" siresorrow@aol.com posted, from a book on Leonard Cohen she recently picked up: "His anger about the death...finds poignant expression in Breaveman's cutting of one of his father's bow-ties, sewing a message inside, and then burying it in the garden, an event that actually occurred the day after Cohen's father's funeral....The loss of Cohen's father was an early and unwanted introduction to reality..." Me now: although I have (and love) "The Favourite Game," knew that the surname "Cohen" denoted a long line of priests in Jewish tradition, thought Joni's song "The Priest" owed not a small amount to Leonard Cohen for imagery, and always assumed that Cohen was the model for the song's protagonist, I completely missed this connection! Like some who have already commented on this thread, I suppose I thought "father's tie" was some sort of vague reference to a clerical collar in the Christian tradition, and thus, metaphorically, an outward sign of a priestly vocation. However, Joni's apparent use of Christian imagery here, although she certainly would have been more familiar with it, never completely made sense to me. But if Joni was aware of the tie episode in Cohen's life and incorporated it into her song, the fact that "the priest" wore "his father's tie" could signify a whole host of other things, too: among them, the futility of communication (the buried message after services for the dead man); the simultaneous difficulty and tremendous importance of connection to one's past; the transformative power of grief, for good or ill, and the intrusion of "unwanted reality" on the innocence of childhood. Perhaps "the priest" wore these burdens outwardly in some way, symbolized by the tie; later, he may have transferred them to the songwriter herself, if only through the partial understanding that came from their time together ("he took his contradictions out and splashed them on my brow"). At any rate, this latest piece of the puzzle is a very interesting one, and I thank siresorrow for posting the excerpt to the JMDL. One question: which book on Cohen is it from? I'd like to try to find it! Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 10:42:14 PDT From: "Chad Burkhart" Subject: Re: Sometimes it just hits me Pam, I for one do not think that anything that you said was neither bogus nor bs. I liked Joni alot before my girlfriend brought her MOA Cd up from her home in NY but it was that CD that really made me LOVE Joni. The band that she played with on that CD kicked butt and I love all of the arrangements at that concert. It was that CD that gave me my first strong emotional responses to Joni's music and have prompted many more since then. Even though I could never aspire to know the real Joni, I know how her music makes me feel and I sometimes feel as though at least the Joni on the albums is a part of my life too. I am sure that there are many of us on this list that feel the same way. By the way, my cat loves Joni Mitchell too and since it is the music that he is exposed to most of the time, I am sure that he feels emotionally attatched to her as well LOL. I think his favorite album is TTT and while I don't agree with him, I think it's a great album. Cheers!!Yours always, Chadly From Mountains ICQ = 41775889 Go where you will go to Know that I will know you Someday I may know you very well ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:16:41 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in the movie "Love" Penny (or *ZAP*uppy2@webtv which is was the appropriate screen name when I tried to respond to this last night and my house was zapped by lightening) wrote: <> Yes Penny, I got a copy of the tape when Wally was auctioning Joni stuff earlier this year. It definitely is a STRANGE movie, but I love watching Joni doing her DJRD drag. I only have one vcr and can't make copies, but I'd be more than happy to send it to any lister who is able to make copies. Just let me know. Jimmy (in the lightning capitol of the world) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:26:54 +0200 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Plug Of The Week #30 Hi there, In about two weeks, one of my favorite artists will release his first album, with new and original material, in well over seventeen years : John Hall - Love Doesn't Ask ( Siren Songs ) "Love Doesn't Ask" is the third release on John's own label, Siren Songs ( the first two ones were: "Recovered" - a great album with re-recordings of John's earlier solo hits, hits with Orleans and songs written for others - and Jonell Mosser's great, new album "So Like Joy". ) Before and after founding the band Orleans, John Hall worked as a sideman and studio guitarist, recording with Taj Mahal, Jackson Browne, Seals & Crofts, Carly Simon, Little Feat, Bonnie Raitt, John Simon and many more. John's political and enviromental activism have been a constant theme in his work, surfacing in 1979, when, along with Jackson Browne, Graham Nash and Bonnie Raitt, he organized the No Nukes concerts at Madison Square Garden, and co-produced the album from the event. John and Johanna Hall's song "Power" became sort of an anthem for the whole movement. He has recorded twelve albums with Orleans, as well as seven albums as a solo artist. The new album, "Love Doesn't Ask", features 13 new original songs, mostly written by John and his wife Johanna. Musicians on the album are a virtual "who's who" of the Woodstock scene: Rick Danko, Garth Hudson and Jim Weider from The Band, John Sebastian, Robbie Dupree, Peter O'Brien and several others. Standout tracks on the album are "Home" ( which ought to be as big a' hit as John's classics "Dance With Me" and "Still The One" ) and the beautiful "Circle", with a classy CSN-feel. Copies of the album ( and the other two releases! ) are available from : Siren Songs PO Box 912 Saugerties NY 12477 U.S.A. Phone: 1 - 888 - GET - HALL Email: mail@sirensongs.com Website: http://www.sirensongs.com Maybe the album of the year? Take care, Peter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 99 17:21:27 -0700 From: Wally Breese Subject: Joni poster-photos Hi everyone, My friend, Leslie Mixon, in a thoughtful act of kindness, has had three of her photographs of Joni (which are displayed on the pages of JM.COM) blown up to poster-size, and is offering them in an auction designed to help with the homepage expenses. {{{{ Thanks, Leslie }}}} Check it out on this page- http://www.JoniMitchell.com/MixonAuction799.html Later, Wally Breese The Joni Mitchell Homepage http://www.JoniMitchell.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:16:40 -0700 From: DARICEM@sfpl.lib.ca.us Subject: LAst call for Bay Area (San Francisco) get together AL those interested in an August meeting...please let me know by private email, Darice ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:34:16 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Roberta Joan Anderson anagrams Whereas she was sometimes described as having lost her sense of humor and having become indignantly focused on "social issues".... Abandon jester; roar on (to which she replies) Abandon a jest? No error LAHM ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #141 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?