From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #139 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Monday, August 2 1999 Volume 01 : Number 139 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: joni and her tunings ["Kakki" ] Re: Downbeat Critics Poll [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: joni and her tunings [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Joni's top two countdown [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: Joni's top two countdown [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: VH1 & Tunings [kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave)] vh1 [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: joni and her tunings [Randy Remote ] Re: vh1 [lisa durfee ] RE: VH1 & Tunings ["Wally Kairuz" ] hawaiian tunings ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: VH1 & Tunings [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: vh1 [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: vh1 [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: hawaiian tunings [Mark Domyancich ] VH1 ranking [raven@igc.org] Re: vh1 [DavinaGr@aol.com] Re: joni and her tunings [MDESTE1@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 00:14:37 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: joni and her tunings Wally K. wrote: >however much we love joni, we can't deceive ourselves and believe that she >invented the wheel. eric anderson [sp?], d. crosby and bruce cockburn, just >to name a few, had used alternate tunings before joni did. as a matter of >fact, some open tunings have been traditionallly used in american folk music >for almost a century. A friend who is a singer-songwriter with a few years on me, and who claims Crosby as one of his main influences, has always insisted to me that Joni was influenced and learned the alternate tunings from the Croz. I'm still not willing to totally accept that but I have to acknowledge that Crosby was doing it at least concurrently with Joni. In fact, one of the reasons for his fall out with the Byrds was that he wanted to go off into more uncharted melodic waters of, at that time "experimental" music, including "weird tunings" while the rest of the group were leaning more toward the country folk sound that they completely embraced later. That does not take anything away from Joni for me - if is is true that Crosby originally inspired her in this regard, her creativity ran with it and she can still be credited among her alternate tuning peers for taking it to the highest dimension. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 10:11:02 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Downbeat Critics Poll In a message dated 7/31/99 11:42:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Dflahm@aol.com writes: > The current issue of DOWNBEAT MAGAZINE contains the results of their annual > Critics' Poll. Chosen as Recording of the Year was the Herbie Hancock > Gershwin project. So we who are devoted to Joni Mitchell can take pride in > the fact that she contributed to this award-winning CD. DAVID LAHM > I recently purchased this recording and its not left our player in days! It happens to be on right now. From Mr. Hancock's note in the CD booklet to the final beautiful piece on the CD, the integrity of this recording speaks for itself. It's truly lovely. Joni and Stevie's contributions make it all that much more meaningful to me. Thanks for letting us know about the award, David. Take care, Gina NP: Gershwin's World, Joni's The Man I Love (she blows me away!!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 12:59:19 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: joni and her tunings In a message dated 8/1/1999 3:43:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << A friend who is a singer-songwriter with a few years on me, and who claims Crosby as one of his main influences, has always insisted to me that Joni was influenced and learned the alternate tunings from the Croz. I'm still not willing to totally accept that but I have to acknowledge that Crosby was doing it at least concurrently with Joni. In fact, one of the reasons for his fall out with the Byrds was that he wanted to go off into more uncharted melodic waters of, at that time "experimental" music, including "weird tunings" while the rest of the group were leaning more toward the country folk sound that they completely embraced later. That does not take anything away from Joni for me - if is is true that Crosby originally inspired her in this regard, her creativity ran with it and she can still be credited among her alternate tuning peers for taking it to the highest dimension. Kakki >> Very well put. I think they went back and forth with the creativity thing. Also, I know that Jimmy Page and Robert Plant claim that she greatly influenced them. I am not sure how old Michael Hedges but I think he took her tunings to a different level as well. But , IMHO, she did INVENT tuningsto suit her needs. We were fooling around with a bunch of Joni songs last night and some tunings like the C tuning she just tuned to B instead of an E on the high 2nd string.. Just by changing a string or two you get the song in the correct tuning. I was freaking out when Eric started playing Chealsea Morning. It is in the HITS songbook and the tuning is correct and it is so EASY to play. So without changing tunings I can now play... Coyotee Amelia Big Yellow Taxi Conversation Chealsea Morning I am sure I will find more songs as I open up the world of Joni tunings. It is SO COOL!!! I am playing these songs in C ( my voice is lower now too) C,G,C,E,G,C. I works VERY WELL! Any song that is a D tuning song can just be played in C with a capo. For all you new guitarists, try this tuning and then go to the gallery and check out songs you like. It is lots of fun! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 11:45:39 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: Joni's top two countdown Catgirl wrote: Greetings listers, I was watching a VH-1 special on Joni's night ride home from years ag and she said that her top two favorite :::drum roll::::: Edith Piaf Billie Holiday   She also said about these women and herself that "Great tragedies has humanized my soul" She said you can hear it in their voice and it never leaves once it is there. I have been enjoying my homemade tape and if anyone would like to start a video tree of some of this stuff contact me privately. Catgirl Are the videos on the VH-1 special the same as the ones on the Night Ride Home commercially sold video? Joni doesn't give that same dialog about Billie Holliday, although she does mention Edith Piaf when she's talking about Two Grey Rooms. On the commercially sold video: Come In From The Cold Dancin' Clown The Beat of Black Wings Nothing Can Be Done Two Grey Rooms Night Ride Home Lakota Passion Play Penny ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 11:57:34 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: Joni's top two countdown I wrote: >>Are the videos on the VH-1 special the same as the ones on the Night Ride Home commercially sold video? My Bad! The title of the commercially sold video is Come In From The Cold not Night Ride Home. Penny, who's not had enough coffee yet today! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 17:22:49 -0400 (EDT) From: kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave) Subject: Re: VH1 & Tunings Wally Kairuz posted: >however much we love joni, we can't >deceive ourselves and believe that she >invented the wheel. eric anderson [sp?], d. >crosby and bruce cockburn, just to name a >few, had used alternate tunings before >joni did. And they each had sex changes when? I believe the subject was WOMEN in rock and I'd have to agree that Joni pioneered and influenced the other WOMEN mentioned. I was very happy and surprised to see her make #5 and IMO, she certainly beats out the other 4 WOMEN ahead of her in overall acumulated talent. gdave - ----------------------------------------------------------------- DaveBase @ www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/2349/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 17:34:16 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: vh1 i thought joni fared quite well on vh1 at #5. that was quite an honor and placed her at a level where it would be very hard for anyone to judge the difference between a #5 and a #3 and a #1. especially considering that joni's albums don't sell big numbers, and the fact that she is so complex of a persona. her music is very intelligent and that alone might exclude her from a top billing. perhaps some one can explain to me why blondie scored so high on this vote. i have not heard a blondie song on the radio for ages. she placed ahead of diana ross. i just can't believe that. but i do think joni did very well at #5. ss. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 14:33:13 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: joni and her tunings > Wally K. wrote: > > >however much we love joni, we can't deceive ourselves and believe that she > >invented the wheel. eric anderson [sp?], d. crosby and bruce cockburn, just > >to name a few, had used alternate tunings before joni did. as a matter of > >fact, some open tunings have been traditionallly used in american folk > music > >for almost a century. Hawaiian guitar music has used alternate tunings extensively since at least the 1920's. It is called "slack key" guitar because the strings are loosened to create open chord tunings, and is credited for it's origin to the spanish cowboys of that period. It became more widespread throughout the islands, each guitarist passing his tunings to his/her children or students, and more or less guarding the tunings with secrecy. Since the 1970's Hawaiian music renaissance, these tunings have become more well known, and the resistance to sharing them with the outside world has broken down. I think when you look at alternate tunings, there are more from Hawaii than from the traditional American (i.e. blues) world, or anywhere else, for that matter. Except Joni, of course! > > > A friend who is a singer-songwriter with a few years on me, and who claims > Crosby as one of his main influences, has always insisted to me that Joni > was influenced and learned the alternate tunings from the Croz. I'm still > not willing to totally accept that but I have to acknowledge that Crosby was > doing it at least concurrently with Joni. > Kakki I had always heard that they developed their tuning systems together, although I suspect they were both into open tunings before they met, as they were being used in folk circles. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 17:57:29 -0400 From: lisa durfee Subject: Re: vh1 Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > i thought joni fared quite well on vh1 at #5. can someone quickly post a list of the top 10, or even just 5 , if you can remember? I missed the show. (But I'll take a stab that Madonna and Ella were both ahead of Joni. ANd, um, Barbra? ) ?? ???? liså D ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 20:31:30 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: VH1 & Tunings nope, you're late gdave. we had already gone on to open tunings: that's why I'd changed the subject line. see archives for reference. wallyk - -----Original Message----- De: gr8fuldave Para: joni@smoe.org Fecha: Domingo 1 de Agosto de 1999 15:33 Asunto: Re: VH1 & Tunings And they each had sex changes when? I believe the subject was WOMEN in rock ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 20:50:34 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: hawaiian tunings that's interesting! randy, do you know any of these tunings? I like it when strings are so loose that they actually flap wallyk >Hawaiian guitar music has used alternate tunings extensively >since at least the 1920's. It is called "slack key" guitar >because the strings are loosened to create open chord tunings ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 20:20:38 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: VH1 & Tunings In a message dated 8/1/1999 5:25:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kb420@webtv.net writes: << And they each had sex changes when? I believe the subject was WOMEN in rock and I'd have to agree that Joni pioneered and influenced the other WOMEN mentioned. I was very happy and surprised to see her make #5 and IMO, she certainly beats out the other 4 WOMEN ahead of her in overall acumulated talent. gdave >> Thank-You! I feel she should have been number one but then I am biased as well. I don't in particular care for Aretha. She is just a good singer...Joni does so much more then that! AND, never out of tune..so Catman tell your friend his record player might need to have the motor checked! ;) Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 20:26:50 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: vh1 In a message dated 8/1/1999 7:44:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Siresorrow@aol.com writes: << i thought joni fared quite well on vh1 at #5. that was quite an honor and placed her at a level where it would be very hard for anyone to judge the difference between a #5 and a #3 and a #1. especially considering that joni's albums don't sell big numbers, and the fact that she is so complex of a persona. her music is very intelligent and that alone might exclude her from a top billing. perhaps some one can explain to me why blondie scored so high on this vote. i have not heard a blondie song on the radio for ages. she placed ahead of diana ross. i just can't believe that. but i do think joni did very well at #5. ss. >> Blondie beleive it or not was a [pioneer in the world of punk. What blew me away was Maryann Faithful and Courtney Love. You gotta be kidding me. Mary can't sing. I thought that that was the only song she ever did was As Tears Go By. And Courtney????YIKES!! That women is horrible in IMHO! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 20:31:02 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: vh1 In a message dated 8/1/1999 7:57:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, durflink@valstar.net writes: << can someone quickly post a list of the top 10, or even just 5 , if you can remember? I missed the show. (But I'll take a stab that Madonna and Ella were both ahead of Joni. ANd, um, Barbra? ) ?? ???? liså D >> It was 5 Joni 4 Bonnie Raitt 3 Janis Joplin 2 Tina Turner 1 Aretha ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 19:43:22 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: hawaiian tunings I can think of one off the top of my head - C Wahine, which is CGDGBD. Cold Blue Steel, Sweet Bird and others are in this tuning. I think there's also one similar to open D that's a Wahine tuning. At 8:50 PM -0300 8/1/99, Wally Kairuz wrote: >that's interesting! randy, do you know any of these tunings? I like it when >strings are so loose that they actually flap >wallyk > > >Hawaiian guitar music has used alternate tunings extensively > >since at least the 1920's. It is called "slack key" guitar > >because the strings are loosened to create open chord tunings ____________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | home.revealed.net/Harpua | |__________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 18:12:19 -0700 From: raven@igc.org Subject: VH1 ranking lis=E5 D < asked: >can someone quickly post a list of the top 10 The top 10 were: 1. ARETHA FRANKLIN 2. TINA TURNER=20 3. JANIS JOPLI 5. JONI MITCHELL=20 6. BILLIE HOLIDAY=20 7. CHRISSIE HYNDE 8. MADONNA=20 9. ANNIE LENNOX 10. CAROLE KING >I missed the show. The entire 5 hours started again at 4pm today. Depending on your time zone, you may still be able to catch one or more hours. I expect the entire series will be broadcast again. As for the ranking, there are two lists, one selected by 'peers' (a list VH1 describes as the "world's most influential women"), where Joni was #5, and another list decided by music fans who voted via the net... where Joni was #32. You can view both lists on the web at: < JOHN < =20 < < ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 22:31:11 EDT From: DavinaGr@aol.com Subject: Re: vh1 Siresorrow@aol.com writes: << perhaps some one can explain to me why blondie scored so high on this vote. >> I watched the entire saga and enjoyed it. What I was able to glean from this program is that the top 10, were women who made a significant contribution by either changing the history of Rock and Roll or creating some sort of Paradign Shift (please forgive me for that awful cliche, but it seemed appropriate ;-) ) in popular music history. Blondie in my opinion did just that. Debra Harry and Blondie combined Rock, Rap, Dance and interesting lyrics to comprise a style that had just not really been covered prior in my opinion. Many people regard Debra Harry as a glam/punk goddess what other popular band or songstress can you compare Debra Harry or Blondie to back in the 70's? I think Blondie's position was deserving. Best, Davina NP...Steve Winwood....Arc of a Diver on vinyl with all the pops and crackles that I love!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 22:49:41 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: joni and her tunings John Fahey delved deeply into all kinds of tunings and was enormously popular as an underground guitar god and a guy who many guitar players copied and learned from in the early-mid 60's. I recall several people showing me Fahey stuff in or around 1968. marcel deste. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #139 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?