From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #137 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, July 31 1999 Volume 01 : Number 137 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Sales disappointments, "My Secret Place" [Jason Long ] Woodstock & the 1960s ["John Low" ] Apologies to the Joni only crew!! ["John Low" ] Another little Joni moment ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Sales disappointments, "My Secret Place" [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: Chalk Mark Questions [catman ] UK meet [catman ] Women of Rock (SJC) [Leslie Mixon ] Hejira Samba! [RMuRocks@aol.com] DED and other stuff (how to get it) ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: Hejira Samba! [Jenaya Dawe ] Re: Hejira Samba! [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: Woodstock & the 1960s [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: Woodstock & the 1960s ["Reuben Bell3" ] Re: Hejira Samba! [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: Hejira Samba! [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: Woodstock & the 1960s [Don Rowe ] Re: Women of Rock [Heather Galli ] Re: Women of Rock ["Reuben Bell3" ] Re: Women of Rock [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: DED and other stuff (how to get it) [Brian Gross ] Re: Women of Rock [Don Rowe ] Re: Women of Rock [Heather Galli ] RE: Chalk Mark Questions ["Wally Kairuz" ] Another Jazz Cover ["Ken (Slarty)" ] Re: Women of Rock [Mark Domyancich ] Top ten (one tenth Joni content) [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Hejira Samba! [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: Hejira Samba! [Randy Remote ] Re: Top ten (one tenth Joni content) [TreyCozy@aol.com] Joni's back catalogue [Jason Long ] Re: Bry-Bry CD (Radio Plastic Jennifer) [luvart@snet.net] Rolling Stoni [Randy Remote ] hegira: Merriam-Webster's Word of the Day [Les Irvin ] Re: Woodstock & the 1960s [Randy Remote ] top 100-joni content [john noble ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 04:53:38 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Sales disappointments, "My Secret Place" Don Rowe wrote: >Well since I started it, I was kind of hoping that >folks would pick up on the insanity of a major label >thinking that an album with a #13 single and 2+ >million unit sales is "disappointing" -- be it Whitney >or anybody, really. I mean, can you imagine how >ecstatic we'd have been if TTT put up those kinds of >numbers? I can see what you're saying here, but at the same time, I can understand from a label's standpoint why an album that's sold over two million copies could be a disappointment. Many albums sell that many copies with relatively little promotion and are deemed great successes as a result; others may require relentless promotion and a great deal of money spent to achieve the same commercial standing, and therefore aren't looked upon as being as great of a success. This is why an album such as Liz Phair's _Exile in Guyville_, which was recorded for only $3000 and released on the then-tiny Matador Records was deemed a huge success for selling 500,000 copies with almost no MTV or radio play, while something like the upcoming, extremely-hyped Nine Inch Nails album will likely have to sell at least three or four times that to be considered an equal success. Also, while I'm not that familiar with Whitney Houston's career, it could be that her previous works have sold substantially more than her current album, and with this one only selling two million copies, her label may be thinking that she's lost a great number of her listeners. As for Joni, I too wish she could pull in those kind of sales figures. It really surprises me that her three '90s releases haven't been more successful saleswise; to me, _Night Ride Home_ seems like one of the most immediately accessible releases of her career, and perhaps more so than any of her albums since _Court and Spark_. Also puzzling to me is the fact that more wasn't done by Reprise to capitalize on Joni's Grammy wins for _Turbulent Indigo_. It would have been a great time to try to reach some new listeners, and when I look at the (well-deserved) boost Bob Dylan received for his awards for _Time Out Of Mind_, it makes me wish that Joni would have benefitted equally. Penny wrote: >Any thoughts on what Joni might be referring to in "My Secret Place"? I >somehow doubt it's a teepee on a sandy beach like in the video for the >song. Is she talking about a geographic location such as NY, LA, >Colorado, the mountains or the Sunshine Coast, perhaps? Accompaniment >in activities that are usually enjoyed most in solitude, for Joni they >could range from painting to traveling. Is she pointing to an emotional >state or frame of mind she only allows certain people to visit with her? >Or if you want to get silly, I suppose since the song is sung with, IMO, >her most sensually breathy recorded voice and Joni's got such a great >sense of humor, maybe she's referring to, a less than approved of by >Myrtle, "spot". "Oh, Oh, My, My!" You don't think Joni would ever be >so obvious as to name a song "My Secret Spot", now do you? ;-D Could >each of the verses be making reference to different types of "secret >places" we only go with a select few? I always thought that Joni was referring to an emotional state, where one allows themself to open up completely to another, letting down all defenses - -- which isn't always as easy to do as one might think. A lot of people have a hard time sharing their innermost feelings and secrets and it's only with a special few people that they are able to be completely free, while with everyone else, they remain somewhat guarded. It seems like Joni may be one of these people, as she says "I don't go there with anyone, but you're a special case" and "I don't talk much to anyone." I always thought this song was about opening up to a person that you care for and trust greatly -- and it doesn't necessarily have to be a lover either, it can simply be a close friend or someone you feel a strong bond with -- the kind of bond that can survive through the usually inevitable rough spells, and that "no amount of hurt and anger can deface." While listening to "My Secret Place," I'm somewhat reminded of the bridge from another song I like, Liz Phair's "Blood Keeper," where she sings, "Love unbuttons parts for everyone, come and take them off right now. What do you need them for, it's just the two of us, and no one's asking you why." For me, although Liz's lyric is nowhere near as eloquent as Joni's, I get a similar impression from it, that a strong bond between two people can strip away their even stronger defenses -- you allow yourself to become a little more vulnerable for the sake of greater closeness. In a way, this emotional state really is a refuge -- to be able to let one's guard down completely in order to share with another person, feeling that nothing needs to be hidden. Still, though, I've always seen the references to "muggers after dark" and "pigeons in this park" as Joni questioning the consequences of opening up so completely to another, maybe expecting that something bad should happen -- perhaps partly out of fear of losing that refuge and perhaps also because one can become all too used to keeping everything within themselves, so that even when they're ready to, sharing with another person can be a scary prospect. No one wants to set themselves up for a potential fall, after all. For the record, "My Secret Place" is by far my favorite song on _Chalk Mark_. I really like the way Joni and Peter Gabriel's voices play off of one another, and the song itself makes for a great opener -- it gives off a really warm and inviting vibe to the listener, and it feels really intimate. Jase NP: Michael Penn, _Resigned_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 02:40:09 PDT From: "John Low" Subject: Woodstock & the 1960s Some thoughts on the Woodstock discussion and the legacy of the 1960s. One of the characteristics of that time I think was a sense among young people that we were part of a community that transcended national boundaries. There was a shared belief in the possibilities of a better world and rock music became the principal medium through which this sense of youthful community was expressed. It was a flawed vision, of course, and we all know how it dissipated under a barrage of commercialism and excess. Rock music, too, fragmented into a chaos of genres that, despite offering a rich creative diversity, destroyed that earlier sense of community and now seems to isolate and divide young people instead of bringing them together. But, underneath it all, I don’t think the kids of today are that much different to those of the 1960s. We were lucky enough to ride into adulthood on a wave of economic prosperity and, despite the threat of Vietnam and nuclear war, had a pretty affluent time of it. Kids today find themselves in a vastly more difficult and hostile economic environment. I am repelled by the cold and selfish values associated with the economic rationalism of recent times. I am sad that the present generation of young people (and that includes my own kids) have been denied the sense of community and vision, no matter how naïve, that was available to mine. I remember reading a comment of Albert Schweitzer’s many years ago in which he said how angry he felt when he heard parents respond to their idealistic children with the remark ‘You’ll soon grow out of that when you get older’! I will always be grateful for that brief experience when the realization of a better world seemed possible. I hope I never lose my idealism no matter how tempered with experience it becomes and I hope that, despite the prevailing world-view of the moment, I shall always encourage my own kids to hold strongly to what they believe deeply to be right. But, I’ve rambled on too long. Please forgive an aging ‘flower child’ now settled into a comfortable, middle class and middle aged existence. If anyone feels inclined to respond, don’t be too hard on me. My petals still bruise easily! John [Hobbit-like in the Mountains.] ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 02:50:33 PDT From: "John Low" Subject: Apologies to the Joni only crew!! Sincere and abject apologies for not putting NJC on my last post re Woodstock. Please, please don't flame me! John. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:27:09 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Another little Joni moment Went on the tube last night to a rehearsal studio in East Putney for a session with singer songwriter Karen Bates and her band. They were rehearsing up one of her songs for a forthcoming all-women acoustic S/S compilation album. On a break, Karen, who in my opinion is 'the business', and her band, which includes Chris Rodell on stand-up, suddenly broke into a wonderful impromtu version of 'Blue Motel Room' . Thought of you lot as I joined in loud on "boom-boom-pachyderm". PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 08:31:33 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Sales disappointments, "My Secret Place" Jason mentioned << It seems like Joni may be one of these people, as she says "I don't go there with anyone, but you're a special case" and "I don't talk much to anyone." >> That would certainly be true of journalists and the media which have not given her a fair shake over the years but I don't think it applies to the people she knows are her true fans. There are more than a few of here who have had the good fortune to speak with her and can attest that she instantly engages in open, honest, conversation. She trusts us with the love & respect we have for her. But then again, all of us have a certain amount of introversion in a given situation. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:49:13 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Chalk Mark Questions I have assumed, and have not closely studied the lyric, that My Secret Place meant her heart/soul. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:57:44 +0100 From: catman Subject: UK meet Okay it seems most perople taht have responded can do the August Bank Holiday. I thinkt he Sat or sun would be best. If you wish to come please reply to this email. thanks colin - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:17:16 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: Women of Rock (SJC) Looking forward to the Joni segment tonight. After watching the past four nights, I'm surprised there's no mention of Sandy Denny, Koko Taylor, Maria Muldaur or Judy Collins. And why use the term "Rock" when all genres are addressed? Is this to attract the under 30 crowd? Speaking of scary movies, I think both versions of "Cape Fear" are spine tingling. Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:58:04 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Hejira Samba! Ok guys I have to ask... I've been listening to a live version of "Hejira" this week, actually it starts as a jazzy version of "Furry Sings the Blues", the recording starts with Joni singing "Pawn shops glitter like gold tooth caps" so I don't have the whole recording, but it segues (or is cut) into this incredible jazzed-up version of Hejira. I mean, this band is jamming! Joni is jazz singing the song and doing jazz vocal trade-offs with another singer, there is wonderful percussion and jazz piano, sizzling sax (I assume that's Shorter), but the whole ensemble is cooking this tune with a Salsa/Samba kind of beat! It is incredible! If you haven't heard it you won't believe it...After the conclusion of the track, one of the musicians yells out "I swear to God, I never had so much fun in my whole life" (or something to that effect)... My question is, what is this an excerpt from? If this whole show exists on recording, can anybody step up and offer to share it with me/others? This version of Hejira is so exciting but it makes me hungry for more. A thousand blessing to whoever can help out with this one! Bob NP: Hejira (live, but not the same version as above) PS: Chadly from Mts., I'm putting the finishing touches on your project and heading to the post office - this Hejira track is on the excess tape from the TTT interview - Enjoy it dude... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:00:35 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: DED and other stuff (how to get it) I don't want to act like a salesperson for them, but CD Now has EVERYTHING. They have stuff that I would have thought out of print ages ago. Check 'em out at CDNow.com or better yet, go to the Joni Mitchell website, jonimitchell.com and enter CDNow through that link - that way Wally will get some of the money to keep his excellent website going. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:47:53 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Joni on UK Arena Just to remind people in the UK that "Later on Joni Mitchell and Co" is being shown at 5.10 pm on Saturday on UK Arena, repeated later the same night. It includes Shawn Colvin and Ricky Lee Jones. Regards Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:23:53 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira Samba! In a message dated 7/30/1999 10:00:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, RMuRocks@aol.com writes: << I've been listening to a live version of "Hejira" this week, actually it starts as a jazzy version of "Furry Sings the Blues", the recording starts with Joni singing "Pawn shops glitter like gold tooth caps" so I don't have the whole recording, but it segues (or is cut) into this incredible jazzed-up version of Hejira. >> Bob, I have a really bad copy of the audio of this--there is a video of this on one of the Video Trees (I'm at work and don't have it with me, so I don't know if it is vol. 1 or 2). This cut was taken from a jam session that Joni did with several Jazz musicians including Wayne Shorter, Bobby McFarren, and Herbie Hancock. I don't know how or where the Video people on JMDL got this clip, and I haven't heard any other audio's from this session. That's all I know. Does anyone else know more about this? Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:32:41 CDT From: "Seth Garrison" Subject: Re: Woodstock & the 1960s John: >I am repelled by the cold and selfish values associated with the economic >rationalism of recent times. I am sad that the present generation of young >people (and that includes my own kids) have been denied the sense of >community and vision, no matter how naïve, that was available to mine. Being a teenager, I can say this: If you think about it, somehow the "cold and selfish values associated with the economic rationalism of recent times" actually creates a sense of community among the ones of us who rebel against the norm. I mean, at school I have a group of very close friends, friends who all disagree with the MTV and commercialized society. We have a special bond that is based firmly around our individual personalities. Just a thought. And... I have a problem. At the release of Taming the Tiger, I went immediately to the record store and purchased it. I made the jump from Blue to TTT. As I was listening, I thought, "Man, this sucks. It doesn't sound like Joni at all. Where is her guitar?" Of course, I realize this is a fairly stupid thought. I mean, I can't expect a very pioneering woman of music to stay the same after 25+ years. Still, I was very disappointed. I was wondering if I should ease myself into this more subtly. Should I go chronologically? I don't want to miss out on 20 years of possibly great Joni music. Does anybody have any advice on this subject? Did any of you have the same troubles? I understand that many of you grew up with Joni's changing, but that's my disadvantage. I was thrown into this world with around 20 Joni Mitchell albums to choose from! What's a boy to do?! Advice? Seth _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 08:35:24 -0700 From: Jenaya Dawe Subject: RE: Hejira Samba! >I have a really bad copy of the audio of this--there is a video of this on >one of the Video Trees (I'm at work and don't have it with me, so I don't >know if it is vol. 1 or 2) I know it's on Vol. 1 because I haven't watched vol. 2 yet!!! Jen... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:37:32 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira Samba! In a message dated 7/30/99 10:28:42 AM Central Daylight Time, SMEBD@aol.com writes: << This cut was taken from a jam session that Joni did with several Jazz musicians including Wayne Shorter, Bobby McFarren, and Herbie Hancock. >> "Jam Session" is right! Thanks for the info Stephen, hopefully there's more to come... Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Take It With Me", another brilliant ballad from a writer who makes writing gorgeous ballads look so easy... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:47:51 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Woodstock & the 1960s Seth shares his problem: << And... I have a problem. At the release of Taming the Tiger, I went immediately to the record store and purchased it. I made the jump from Blue to TTT. As I was listening, I thought, "Man, this sucks. It doesn't sound like Joni at all. Where is her guitar?">> Actually Seth, TTT is almost ALL guitar whereas Blue incorporates lots of dulcimer & piano... << I mean, I can't expect a very pioneering woman of music to stay the same after 25+ years. >> And that's why I love her so... << Should I go chronologically? I don't want to miss out on 20 years of possibly great Joni music. Does anybody have any advice on this subject? >> Possibly? Possibly?! :~) And you hit the nail on the head...to appreciate Joni's art it's much more easy to go chronologically...In my own case I started with C&S and bought the new ones as they came out, then went back later and added all the pre-C&S records. To be able to hear the growths, transitions, and evolutions in their proper order is highly preferable, I would think... Bob NP: Billy Bragg & Wilco, "California Stars" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:52:24 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell3" Subject: Re: Woodstock & the 1960s Seth, I would say to start with whatever you want. Joni's stuff is all very different. I started off with Ladies of the Canyon (1971), Wild Things Run Fast (1982) and Chalkmark In A Rainstorm (1988). Vastly different, and I like some better than others, but they're all good. I'd reccomend The Hissing Of Summer Lawns and Hejira, which are two of my personal favorites. Just a thought, Reuben >>> "Seth Garrison" 07/30/99 11:32AM >>> I understand that many of you grew up with Joni's changing, but that's my disadvantage. I was thrown into this world with around 20 Joni Mitchell albums to choose from! What's a boy to do?! Seth>>> _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:27:40 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: Hejira Samba! Stephen wrote: This cut was taken from a jam session that Joni did with several Jazz musicians including Wayne Shorter, Bobby McFarren, and Herbie Hancock. I don't know how or where the Video people on JMDL got this clip, and I haven't heard any other audio's from this session. That's all I know. Does anyone else know more about this? Herbie Hancock hosted an occasionally airing show on Showtime in the late 80's (?) called Showtime Coast to Coast. This jam session was from the first season's airings. Klein and David Sanborn were also there with the above mentioned. I know I taped it from the TV, and would assume that's the source on the tape tree as well. Penny ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:21:47 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira Samba! In a message dated 7/30/1999 12:27:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, zapuppy2@webtv.net writes: << Herbie Hancock hosted an occasionally airing show on Showtime in the late 80's (?) called Showtime Coast to Coast. This jam session was from the first season's airings. Klein and David Sanborn were also there with the above mentioned. I know I taped it from the TV, and would assume that's the source on the tape tree as well. >> Penny, Thanks for the information and thanks for sharing the tape--I've really enjoyed watching this clip. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:24:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Woodstock & the 1960s - --- Seth Garrison wrote: > I was thrown > into this world with > around 20 Joni Mitchell albums to choose from! > What's a boy to do?! > Advice? I would recommend this order. Of course, each joni album takes time to digest -- something I'm still working on 20+ year after discovering her. But I really think the following sequence would be a good one. What I've tried to do is put some albums in a "most accessible" order, taking into account that you have "Blue" ... and though it jumps around in time, I think it will be less jarring than your recent experience with TTT. I think you mentioned that you're failiar with "Clouds", "Song to A Seagull", and "Ladies of the Canyon", so I'll leave them out. I also think you should get familiar with the studio albums before you think about the live ones, "Shadows and Light", "Miles of Aisles" -- or the Hits/Misses compliations. So here goes: 1. For The Roses 2. Court and Spark 3. Hejira 4. Night Ride Home 5. Hissing of Summer Lawns 6. Turbulent Indigo 7. Wild Things Run Fast 8. Chalkmark In A Rainstorm 9. Dog Eat Dog 10. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter 11. Mingus _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:36:11 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: Women of Rock >Looking forward to the Joni segment tonight. After watching the past >four nights, I'm surprised there's no mention of Sandy Denny, Koko >Taylor, Maria Muldaur or Judy Collins. > >And why use the term "Rock" when all genres are addressed? Is this to >attract the under 30 crowd? I wondered the same, Leslie. I am not into polls so I don't put alot of merit in this VH1 thing. I am watching it, though, because I like the little snippets on all the performers. I was glad to see Laura Nyro in there and I'm also looking forward to seeing Joni tonight. One thing that disappoints me .... I don't see any interviews with Joni commenting on the other performers. For instance, Marianne Faithful, Grace Jones, Carly Simon, Patty Smyth, Debbie Harry all had supporting comments on the other artists. Maybe Joni will have something to say about Billie Holiday tonight. Heather ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:45:20 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell3" Subject: Re: Women of Rock I thought about this and I imagine its because Joni doesn't often have anything terribly nice to say about anyone else. She IS kind of critical, and goes by the Cindy Brady epithet :"I just tell it like it is." Heavy lies the head that wears the crown... Reuben >>> Heather Galli 07/30/99 03:36PM One thing that disappoints me .... I don't see any interviews with Joni commenting on the other performers. Heather ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:12:11 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Women of Rock In a message dated 7/30/99 1:49:31 PM Central Daylight Time, RPBell3@newchurch.edu writes: << I thought about this and I imagine its because Joni doesn't often have anything terribly nice to say about anyone else. She IS kind of critical, and goes by the Cindy Brady epithet :"I just tell it like it is." >> Reuben you need to listen to her on the BBC show "My Top 12" where she heaps praise on Miles, Stevie Wonder, Edith Piaf, Peter Gabriel, and others worthy of praise. It's been awfully difficult for her to witness some of the women she's obviously influenced go on to the critical success and especially commercial success that SHE rightly deserves. Any of us would be bitter in that situation...she is the greatest, but she IShuman, and in her own words, she talks too loose, too open & free...and pays a high price for it. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:08:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: DED and other stuff (how to get it) - ---Catherine McKay wrote: > > I don't want to act like a salesperson for them, but CD Now has EVERYTHING. > They have stuff that I would have thought out of print ages ago. Check 'em > out at CDNow.com or better yet, go to the Joni Mitchell website, > jonimitchell.com and enter CDNow through that link - that way Wally will get > some of the money to keep his excellent website going. And let's not forget that the JMDL.com site also has links to CD Now that help support the List. And what would our lives be like without this marvelous place? Take care, Brian NP: Fotheringay (Sandy Denny was wonderful) === "No paper thin walls No folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:51:32 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: Women of Rock Ruben writes: << I thought about this and I imagine its because Joni doesn't often have >anything terribly nice to say about anyone else. She IS kind of critical, >and goes by the Cindy Brady epithet :"I just tell it like it is." >> > Then Bob writes: >Reuben you need to listen to her on the BBC show "My Top 12" where she heaps >praise on Miles, Stevie Wonder, Edith Piaf, Peter Gabriel, and others worthy >of praise. It's been awfully difficult for her to witness some of the women >she's obviously influenced go on to the critical success and especially >commercial success that SHE rightly deserves. Any of us would be bitter in >that situation...she is the greatest, but she IShuman, and in her own words, >she talks too loose, too open & free...and pays a high price for it. > I know this has been mentioned before .... Joni having a difficult time saying anything nice about women performers she has obviously influenced. But,(now listen up Joni) TIMES CHANGE ... you ARE being recognized now! Look at the recent celebration in Central Park for you! Some people are slowly waking up to Joni's remarkable talent. Joni should embrace this change. On yet another note: Someone mentioned earlier about Larry Klein producing Tracy Chapman's work ... did this burn Joni's ass? In a way, did Joni feel that Larry "cheated" on her? Heather np: NPR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:09:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Women of Rock > On yet another note: Someone mentioned earlier > about Larry Klein producing > Tracy Chapman's work ... did this burn Joni's ass? Well let me tell you ... it was a nightmare wrapped up in a purgatory and FedExed to Hell! My Lord, if you think Joni's voice has been piercing at times ... you really have no idea! I don't know to this day what the hell I was thinking ... but I know one thing -- never again mi amigo! God, the memory alone has me broken out in a cold sweat. Larry Klein (alias Don Rowe) _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:21:05 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: Women of Rock >> On yet another note: Someone mentioned earlier >> about Larry Klein producing >> Tracy Chapman's work ... did this burn Joni's ass? > >Well let me tell you ... it was a nightmare wrapped up >in a purgatory and FedExed to Hell! My Lord, if you >think Joni's voice has been piercing at times ... you >really have no idea! I don't know to this day what >the hell I was thinking ... but I know one thing -- >never again mi amigo! God, the memory alone has me >broken out in a cold sweat. > LOL!!!!!! Don ... you are one funny guy! Inside the cover of FTR ...can you just see that photo of Joni's backside having a red tinge to it!! Heather ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:18:49 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Chalk Mark Questions Dear Penny, As far as I remember, Joni said in an interview that the gypsy had made three predictions about Joni's mother's future: "You'll be married within a month, you'll have a child within a year and you'll die a slow, painful death". Joni said that she chose not to include the third prophecy in the song. Best, WallyK You wrote: Has Joni ever said that the reason she's an only child is because The Bomb was dropped less than two years after she was born? Smiles Penny ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:25:24 -0400 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: Another Jazz Cover I recently heard a Joni cover of I had a King by Joshua Redman from his 1998 release "Timeless Tales". A quick "listen to" can be heard at CdNow. Fleece and Shove - Official logo of Woodstock99 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:25:42 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Women of Rock You're one to talk! Your laugh is enough to make anybody go insane! At 1:09 PM -0700 7/30/99, Larry Klein wrote: >My Lord, if you think Joni's voice has been piercing at times ... you >really have no idea! ____________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | home.revealed.net/Harpua | |__________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:03:55 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Top ten (one tenth Joni content) Despite lists being invidious, they're also fun, so here's mine... 1. Joni (not just 'cos this is her list - she is really the best) 2.Christine Collister 3.Jane Siberry 4.Laura Nyro 5. Kate Bush 6. Sandy Denny 7. Shawn Colvin 8.Aretha Franklin 9.Joan Armatrading 10.Annabel Lamb (OK I'm biased 'cos she's a friend - she's still a woman of heart and mind, and you can tell it from listening to her songs) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:48:11 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: Hejira Samba! I wrote: Herbie Hancock hosted an occasionally airing show on Showtime in the late 80's (?) called Showtime Coast to Coast. This jam session was from the first season's airings. Klein and David Sanborn were also there with the above mentioned. I know I taped it from the TV, and would assume that's the source on the tape tree as well.   >> Stephen replied: Thanks for the information and thanks for sharing the tape--I've really enjoyed watching this clip. Clarification.....I was not the source for the video tree. But I'm assuming the tape tree source taped it from the same airing I recorded mine. For those who haven't seen this, let me add that Joni was wearing a black, mid-calf length dress, probably about a dozen belts ;-), (her best 'look' IMO) was chomp, chomp, chomping on gum the whole time, and it appears that she hadn't had any "touch up" work done on her face yet. The marks near her mouth in this taping were no longer present at the time of the Jazz Fest several years later! Penny ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 18:07:28 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Hejira Samba! Penny wrote: > I wrote: > > Herbie Hancock hosted an occasionally airing show on Showtime in the > late 80's (?) called Showtime Coast to Coast. This jam session was from > the first season's airings. Klein and David Sanborn were also there with > the above mentioned. I know I taped it from the TV, and would assume > that's the source on the tape tree as well. >> > > Stephen replied: > > Thanks for the information and thanks for sharing the tape--I've really > enjoyed watching this clip. > > Clarification.....I was not the source for the video tree. But I'm > assuming the tape tree source taped it from the same airing I recorded > mine. > > For those who haven't seen this, let me add that Joni was wearing a > black, mid-calf length dress, probably about a dozen belts ;-), (her > best 'look' IMO) was chomp, chomp, chomping on gum the whole time, and > it appears that she hadn't had any "touch up" work done on her face yet. > The marks near her mouth in this taping were no longer present at the > time of the Jazz Fest several years later! > > Penny I have a copy of this from Lifetime network's "Limited Engagement", it is 9m long, contains Joni talking about "Furry", an excerpt of "Furry", and an excerpt of "Hejira", with the personnel previously mentioned. I'm guessing Lifetime bought rebroadcast rights from Showtime, but I wonder if the original segment was longer. RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:52:19 EDT From: TreyCozy@aol.com Subject: Re: Top ten (one tenth Joni content) Here it goes... 1. JONI (she is the queen..) 2. Aretha Franklin 3. Ricky Lee Jones 4. Joan Armatrading 5. Pheobe Snow 6. Shawn Colvin 7. Carly Simon 8. Tina Turner 9. Ani DiFranco 10. Jonatha Brooke (hey.. it's me TREY.. how could I resist??) Did no one else include Ani DiFranco in their top ten?? I was gone for two weeks -- please tell me I just missed it and that it was an oversight. =) I know SOMEONE must have included Ani.... A little worried, Trey np - "You and Me of the 10,000 Wars" - indigo gals (after I blew the dust off the case) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:00:25 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Joni's back catalogue Seth wrote: > And... I have a problem. At the release of Taming the Tiger, I went >immediately to the record store and purchased it. I made the jump from Blue >to TTT. As I was listening, I thought, "Man, this sucks. It doesn't sound >like Joni at all. Where is her guitar?" Of course, I realize this is a >fairly stupid thought. I mean, I can't expect a very pioneering woman of >music to stay the same after 25+ years. Still, I was very disappointed. > I was wondering if I should ease myself into this more subtly. Should I >go chronologically? I don't want to miss out on 20 years of possibly great >Joni music. Does anybody have any advice on this subject? Did any of you >have the same troubles? I understand that many of you grew up with Joni's >changing, but that's my disadvantage. I was thrown into this world with >around 20 Joni Mitchell albums to choose from! What's a boy to do?! I would almost recommend buying all of Joni's past albums chronologically, although this would mean you wouldn't discover _Night Ride Home_ and _Turbulent Indigo_ until late in the game, which is a bit of a shame since I personally feel that they are two of Joni's finest works. I had this same problem myself when I first discovered Joni's music. I'd always known about her from a lot of different books and album guides I had read, plus I would see her name mentioned from time to time in articles on other artists I liked, but my knowledge of her music only extended as far as being familiar with some of the more well-known songs, and not always her own versions at that. The more I read, though, the more intrigued I became, especially since the impression I got was that Joni was an artist who always stuck to her own vision, without worrying about whether something would sell or not, an attitude I really respect. I finally resolved to check out an album of hers, but had no idea where to start. Thankfully, this problem was solved for me - -- I came across a used LP of _For the Roses_ not long after and picked it up. I didn't really have any idea of what to expect when I first played it, but I was already in love with it before the first side was over. I played the album quite a bit over the next several days, eventually making a tape of it for my walkman, then set out to get more of Joni's work. Again, I really had no idea of what albums to get next, but this problem was solved for me. None of the music stores near me were very well-stocked when it came to Joni's work, so I chose from the limited options I had and bought _Hejira_ next. I hadn't really heard an album like it before and although it didn't immediately 'click' with me, I liked "Amelia" and a couple of other songs enough to go back and pick up _Court and Spark_ a few days later. After that, I bought what I could, wherever I could find it. I checked through my Columbia House catalogues to see what they carried, looked in nearby stores whenever visiting relatives, and also got my local music stores to order a few titles for me. By the time _Turbulent Indigo_ was released, I had a lot of the back catalogue, and after buying it, continued to acquire the rest (although I will admit not buying _Misses_ when it was released; there was too much other music I wanted to hear for me to spend the money to buy a compilation of songs I already owned). While I did love most of Joni's albums right away, I do wish I had discovered them chronologically. I think there is a definite progression between her albums, and I do know there are certain ones I didn't really fully appreciate until hearing their direct predecessors. One last thing: Don't give up on _Taming the Tiger_ just yet. I remember feeling a slight tinge of disappointment when I first heard it, but since then, some of the songs have really grown on me. "Love Puts on a New Face" and "Face Lift" are both particularly good; give them a second chance. Cheers, Jase NP: Joni, _TTT_ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:01:15 -0400 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: Bry-Bry CD (Radio Plastic Jennifer) > >I hope Bry comes again to Topsfield. I haven't any confirmation as yet. I >only >know that he is is in the general area (Kendall Cafe, Cambridge) on Aug 26. >We should hope. I'll be there. > This IS good news, Chuck! Heather (keeping her fingers crossed) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:18:58 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Rolling Stoni In the Aug 15 issue of Rolling Stone (Angela Jolie cover) random notes section there is a paragraph about the New York tribute show, a quote by Duncan Sheik, and a photo of a blissfully overwhelmed Joni clutching a large bouquet of flowers. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:24:28 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: hegira: Merriam-Webster's Word of the Day Joniphiles - I thought you may be interested in the word of the day from Merriam-Webster. Les The Word of the Day for July 31 is: hegira \hih-JYE-ruh or HEH-juh-ruh\ (noun) : a journey especially when undertaken to escape from a dangerous or undesirable situation : exodus Example sentence: To escape the lowering clouds of impending war, Grandmother's family embarked on a hegira that would carry them far from their native soil. Did you know? "A prophet is not without honor, save in his own country." By the year A.D. 622, the prophet Muhammad had learned that painful lesson. In that year, he was forced to flee his native city, Mecca, to escape persecution from those who rejected his message. Muhammad, the founder of Islam, and a number of his followers migrated to Medina, where they were guaranteed protection by local clans. This event, which traditionally marks the beginning of the Islamic era, is known in Arabic as the "hijrah," -- literally, "flight." That Arabic term passed into Medieval Latin (where it was modified to "hegira"), and from there it eventually made its way into English. By the 18th century, English speakers were using "hegira" for other journeys, too, especially arduous ones. - ---------------- Brought to you by Merriam-Webster Inc. http://www.m-w.com - ---------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:59:03 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Woodstock & the 1960s Seth Garrison wrote: > Being a teenager, I can say this: If you think about it, somehow the > "cold and selfish values associated with the economic rationalism of recent > times" actually creates a sense of community among the ones of us who rebel > against the norm. I mean, at school I have a group of very close friends, > friends who all disagree with the MTV and commercialized society. It's natural that there will be a backlash to that stuff, and good to hear about it!! > > > And... I have a problem. At the release of Taming the Tiger, I went > immediately to the record store and purchased it. I made the jump from Blue > to TTT. As I was listening, I thought, "Man, this sucks. It doesn't sound > like Joni at all. Where is her guitar?" Joni plays a VG-8 throughout TTT, which is an electric guitar hooked up to a synthesizer-type device. She is doing pioneer work with this instrument, but it is quite a different beast than an acoustic. > > I was wondering if I should ease myself into this more subtly. Should I > go chronologically? I don't want to miss out on 20 years of possibly great > Joni music. Does anybody have any advice on this subject? > I was thrown into this world with > around 20 Joni Mitchell albums to choose from! What's a boy to do?! > Seth Starting with the info that you like Blue (considered by many her best), which is her 4th album, stylistically her 3rd and 5th are pretty close, with Ladies of the Canyon being more folksy, and For The Roses a tad more sophisticated. Going back to her first two, they are even more folksy, with single guitar backup and pure soprano vocals, the songs having an intimate quality. Other guitar oriented albums include Hejira with it's sparse but spacey electric band, long cerebral compositions and simply incredible lyrics, and Don Juan's Reckless Daughter (her 9th and 10th), which generally finds Joni playing multi tracked acoustic backed by the formidable basslines of Jaco Pastorius. Court and Spark and Hissing of Summer Lawns, her 6th and 7th albums, began her explorations with jazz musicians, C&S being more pop/rock, and containing her big hit "Help Me". Miles of Aisles is a live album and a great document of her music up to that point. After DJRD came Mingus, which is the music of jazz bassist Charles Mingus, with Joni's lyrics, and is pretty much full on jazz. Shadows and Light is a jazz-rock live album featuring her middle period bandmates, Jaco, Pat Methany, and Joni usually on electric guitar. Wild Things Run Fast is more of a rock album, alot of people on this list slag it but I think it's a fine work. It's also the end of her piano recordings, for the most part. Dog Eat Dog has recently been either praised or knocked for it's synth heavy edge. Chalk Mark In a Rain Storm, and especially Night Ride Home are seen by many as a return to form for our lady of the alternate tunings, with a more basic instrumentation, and more guitar. Turbulent Indigo, I would say is somewhat similar stylistically to TTT, with TI being the more organic. Then there was her album of standards with orchestra, just gorgeous---wait--that's the future..... The other recordings I would recommend for you to check out are the BBC tapes she made with James Taylor before she recorded Blue. They are on the tape trees as well as numerous bootlegs. They perform live, and the unadorned beauty of the music is allowed to shine through. They should release this stuff commercially like they did with Dylan's "Albert Hall" concert. RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:58:37 -0700 From: john noble Subject: top 100-joni content Hi, I'm Tucker, I'm a digester, haven't checked my mail in a long time, not keeping up, but! I just watched the top 100 and I find it so irritating that they insist on doing the whole Big Yellow Taxi thing. For young kids coming up, and you KNOW that's the only song these kids are ever going to hear! Why do these people that are putting this all together insist on using that one song to introduce people to Joni? If she was watching this you know she was gnashing her teeth! The thing with this whole Rock and Roll thing is that there's Rock and Roll and then there's Singers/Songwriters. Two totally different catagories. Joni Mitchell, to me, is the first, or maybe second, after Laura Nyro, to explore the whole S/S catagorie with ink on a pen, pin? Underneath the skin! So, anyway, That's my beef! She need's to be recognized as the first and foremost of this genre! No number 5! Like I'm telling you guys something you don't already know! Wish I could be at the JoniFest NP: Wendy Waldman Hasn't anyone ever heard of her?? ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #137 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?