From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #133 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, July 27 1999 Volume 01 : Number 133 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Just a trick on ya & 'The Priest' ["Mary August" ] Joni in Music of The Millennium chart [Bounced Message ] new to the list [Bounced Message ] Re: The Priest [Bounced Message ] Re: The 'REAL' Top 10 ... (VLJC) ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: Was Tracy Chapman, Now Depression (VLJC) [waytoblu@mindspring.com] Re: The Secret Of Life ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: woodstock ["Kakki" ] Re: Was Tracy Chapman, Now Depression (VLJC) ["Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Just a trick on ya & 'The Priest' >Subject: Re: Just a trick on ya & 'The Priest' Interesting commentary on The Priest. Any chance there's something else going on at the same time, a one night affair?: And his eyes looked into my eyes so far Whenever the words ran dry (snip) And his eyes said me and his eyes said you And my eyes said let us try (snip) He reached past the wine for my hand to hold And he saw me young and he saw me old And he saw me sitting there (snip) And he asked for only now Of course, they were at the airport bar so there was a flight to catch... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:51:03 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Joni in Music of The Millennium chart From: philipf@tinet.ie Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 01:40:48 +0100 here's another place to vote for your favourite artist - Music Of The Millennium. Madonna's slightly ahead of Aretha in this one. Joni's at number 10. http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/motm/ Philip ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:48:57 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: new to the list From: "nadine nixson-revolks" Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:58:26 -0500 Hi everyone!! My name is Phil and I'm new to the list. I'm a musician and a total Joni fan. I've loved her since STAS. I was a drummer at the time and that album inspired me to start playing acoustic guitar. I owe her a great debt of gratitude for that. I look forward to talking Joni with others on the list Phil Murphy for our on-line catalog and vdubs for sale visit our web site at http://www.tcac.net/~revolks/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:49:33 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: The Priest Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:51:21 -0700 From: Casey Certis-Milby Lots to think about in Siresorrow's post. I wanted to add that when I read here on the list (some time ago?) that this song was about Leonard Cohen it all clicked for me. I played it over with goose bumps and a big "of course." Not that I now have deep insight, but: > she sees a disparity between the church's paradox of separating > the human and the divine. > Much of Cohen's poetry and prose was focused on this very issue - "Beautiful Losers" especially comes to mind with its contemplations of Catherine Tekakwitha (a Native American who was "converted" and now a saint), and sainthood, and magic/God. And maybe related to the "more and more... less and less", Cohen called saints "balancing monsters of love." Cohen also wrote a great deal about Germans - not in light of their philosophy, but in terms of the Holocaust, pogroms, etc. One of his volumes of poetry is titled Flowers for Hitler. Confession not only ties in with (Catholic) priesthood, but figures prominently in Cohen's work. He "makes his confession to them" in Sisters of Mercy and uses both the word and the concept again and again in his songs and poetry. None of this is to dispute the thoughtful ideas posted here already, but just to say that if it is about Cohen, many of the images have outside references as well as her own internal meanings Joni was expressing. Casey What I'm Doing Here Leonard Cohen I do not know if the world has lied I have lied I do not know if the world has conspired against love I have conspired against love The atmosphere of torture is no comfort I have tortured Even without the mushroom cloud still I would have hated Listen I would have done the same things even if there were no death I will not be held like a drunkard under the cold tap of facts I refuse the universal alibi Like an empty telephone booth passed at night and remembered like mirrors in a movie palace lobby consulted only on the way out like a nymphomaniac who binds a thousand into strange brotherhood I wait for each of you to confess ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:52:50 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: The 'REAL' Top 10 ... (VLJC) Alan wrote: >I'll bite... but let me qualify my list as being the top ten popular or not >so popular singer/songwriters of the feminine persuasion. > >1- Joni Mitchell, of course... >2- Bonnie Raitt... wish i could play slide like that >3- Beth Neilson Chapman... check her out...great piano >4- Carole King... goes without saying >5- Sarah MacLachlan... sometimes a bit formula... but some great songs >6- Billie Holiday... dead but never forgotten >7- Joan Armatrading... love her ballads & her rockers >8- Stevie Nicks... sexy, sultry voice >9- Sade... more sexy, more sultry >10- Shawn Colvin... what can I add? > >Perhaps I broke my own rules... does either Stevie or Sade do any writing? >I don't know for sure. Or Billie? Stevie Nicks definitely does her own writing - it was one of the reasons she embarked on a solo career while still with Fleetwood Mac. 2 or 3 songs every couple of years, ie. on one album, wasn't enough since she was writing so many. Not sure about Sade, but I THINK (definitely could be wrong) she co-wrote with one of her band members. I thought about submitting my own list in response to this and the VH-1 list, but it seems pointless, since we're all going to have a different one, other than Joni being first, of course! BTW, were Melissa Etheridge and The Indigo Girls mentioned anywhere? I must admit, I did a quick scan, and now can't find the site to check. And I definitely agree with Kakki - where, oh where, was Dusty! Helen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:05:47 -0400 From: waytoblu@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Was Tracy Chapman, Now Depression (VLJC) Gina writes: > >So much more is known about depression now as a true biological imbalance >that can be treated. So unfortunate that people still look upon those with >depression as individuals to avoid. I didn't intend to imply that I avoid people with depression. I have friends who suffer from depression, have dealt with depression myself, and one of my favorite singersongwriters Nick Drake, who I dedicated my cd to, suffered from severe depression his whole life, which unfortunately ended at 26, with an overdose of depressant medication. What I said was I wouldn't get romantically involved with someone who was seriously depressed, which is a choice I choose to make though I know you can't always tell who you will fall in love with. I certainly don't avoid people with any illnesses, depression or disabilities. I have a close friend who has suffered from schizophrenia and believes he was given shocktreatment and had experiments performed on him as a child by these mysterious people who are part of a big conspiracy and he can talk for hours about this and you can tell he completely believes everything he is saying. I have some close friends who are alcholics. I love them and care about them but I wouldn't want to get involved with them romantically. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:02:16 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: The Secret Of Life Rev Vince wrote: >The secret of life is finding a child to love and passing that love into >the next generation, if possible. By adoption, foster parenting, >mentoring, being a good aunt or uncle, being a good neighbor, or whatever >means one has at one's disposal. This was so well-written, I couldn't agree more! I decided, quite some time ago, not to have children. Does that make my life worth less than someone who gets pregnant "accidentally" then decides they might as well have the kid anyway - then does a piss-poor job of raising that child? And believe me, there are a lot of parents out there like that - I see it every day around where I live! I have a niece and nephew, who I see regularly, and that's quite enough for me. I love them to death, and I believe I'm contributing to their development in many ways. I am so SICK of hearing that my life is worthless because I don't/won't have children! Sorry, I started getting a little angry, but a person's contribution to society is not based on how many children they have, and if that ever becomes the standard, then we're in for a lot of trouble. I understand the basic biological need for a species to procreate, but not every member needs to do so in order for the species to survive - does the term "natural selection" ring any bells? Sorry again, I'm getting sarcastic, but I'd be a terible mother - I'm far too selfish, just ask the cat!!! Helen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:45:26 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: woodstock As always, Mark, you are right there with the perfect Joni reference! > So many people dislike 'The Windfall (Everything for Nothing)' from > 'Night Ride Home' but isn't this what the song is all about? I love this song and think it is brilliant. It's not a pretty song at all, but I think she made it deliberately ugly in a way, almost like she would not honor the subject matter by making it attractive melodically. And she just sounds so perfectly pissed and disgusted in it. I love the biting lyrics - she says it so well - especially this verse: "Oh, I'm tangled in your lies Your scam Your spider web Spit spun between the trees Doors slam You want my head You'd eat your young alive For a Jaguar in the drive You lie too much You lie too badly You want everything for nothing" Tell it, Joni! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:19:47 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Was Tracy Chapman, Now Depression (VLJC) Terry wrote: >> I''m sorry you had that experience, but to say one shouldn't get involved >> with someone who suffers from deep depression is like saying stay away >from >> diabetics. There is treatment available that can be a godsend for those >> living with depression, which is highly treatable. Goodness sakes, man! Then Gina wrote: >Thank you, Terry, once again you rise to the occasion when reason is in order! > >So much more is known about depression now as a true biological imbalance >that can be treated. So unfortunate that people still look upon those with >depression as individuals to avoid. > >Some of the best and most talented writers, thinkers, artists and musicians >are or were at one time affected by depression I have to jump in here again - I'll try not to let my emotions get the better of me! My father sufferered greatly from depression, and was on medication most of his adult life. I can still remember the 3 hour car-trips to another city for his shock treatments, when I was about 6. He would drive us there, Mum would drive us back while he slept/gazed out the window. My mother always said it was such a shame I didn't really know him before he had these, since the treatments changed his whole personality. But after saying that, he was a happy, extremely intelligent (a PH.D and nominated for a Rhodes Scholarship to Oxford) and loving father. On a side-note - I still remember the day I bought my first Joni Mitchell album (WTRF in 1983). He asked what I had bought as I got into the car, and I was thinking "he won't have a clue" since he was heavily into light opera (Gilbert & Sullivan, etc. - definitely not my cup of tea!) and he said "Oh, I've heard of Joni Mitchell! I like some of her songs!" He could always surprise the hell out of me! Yes, he suffered from depression, but like any disease, it can be treated - and in my father's case, successfully treated. The irony is that he died about 13 years ago from an infection which got into his spinal column, then brain (started, believe it or not, by a boil on his elbow). The doctors thought his problems were psychological, and put him in the psychiatric ward of the hospital. By the time they realised it was the infection in his brain, not the depression, he had lost 90% use of his lungs, and died two days after they transferred him to intensive care. That's probably not relevant to this discussion, but my fighting blood starts to simmer when I hear people saying that people with depression should be avoided! I'd hate to think what the first 20 years of my life would have been like without my father - I just he was still around around for the next 20 or 40. Helen ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #133 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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