From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #115 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, July 13 1999 Volume 01 : Number 115 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends [M.Russell@iaea.org] re: park tribute [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends ["Kakki" ] Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends ["C. G." ] Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends [Mark Domyancich ] Am I the only one who believes in "Ana-mancy"? ["C. G." ] Demo Hissing [michael paz ] Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends [Les Irvin ] Re: Demo Hissing [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Demo Hissing [Mark Domyancich ] out of the dark [Christopher Dainty ] trip-hop joni [Bounced Message ] Re: out of the dark [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Demo Hissing [Bounced Message ] Re: UK Joni party? [AzeemAK@aol.com] The judds, both sides now. [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Attention Joni Lovers ["R Joseph" ] Re: UK Joni party? [catman ] Re: UK Joni party? [Jason Maloney ] Plug Of The Week #27 ["Peter Holmstedt" ] dog eat dog, and '80s joni again. ["patrick leader" ] Joni and her many men.... ["Takats, Angela" ] Re: Joni and her many men.... ["Kakki" ] Re: dog eat dog, and '80s joni again. ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: dog eat dog, and '80s joni again. ["Kakki" ] Re: dog eat dog, and '80s joni again. ["Eric G. Postel" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:52:06 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends Clark wrote: > them." Then again, she mentions saying a little prayer > at the moment Klein asked her to play video games at > the Santa Monica pier. Can you elaborate on this little item? I have never read this anywhere. Marian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:56:25 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: re: park tribute Chris wrote: > I then brought up the fact that I heard she is going to be > a grandmother again. She gave me this look and half > screamed it happened! Apparently that day. No wonder > she was in such a good mood. So was it a boy or a girl???? Marian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 00:56:45 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends Marian wrote: > Clark wrote: > > > them." Then again, she mentions saying a little prayer > > at the moment Klein asked her to play video games at > > the Santa Monica pier. > > Can you elaborate on this little item? I have never read this anywhere. > > Marian I recall hearing/reading this story a few times and love the story. Here is an excerpt from her May 1991 Rolling Stone interview with David Wild "A Conversation with Joni Mitchell" - "You coproduced 'Night Ride Home' with your husband, Larry Klein. How did you two meet?" "We met on the Wild Things Run Fast album. He played bass for me I was kind of lonely at the time. And I actually prayed. I don't pray that often. And I prayed an embarrassed prayer I said "Look God, I know I don't write, I don't call. However, I don't need that much. All I need is a real good kisser who likes to play pinball" So two days later Klein said to me, "How would you like to go to the Santa Monica pier and play video games?" And I looked up at the sky, and I said, "Close enough." And he said, "I beg your pardon?" And we never looked back. We've been together ever since. So I look at it as divine intervention." Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 05:36:48 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Friends have come to find they can't be friends yeah i remember that. she said something like "lord make him a good pinball player and a good kisser please". i'm sure it was a musician magazine interview. wallyk - -----Original Message----- De: M.Russell@iaea.org Para: CarltonCT@aol.com ; joni@smoe.org Fecha: Lunes 12 de Julio de 1999 02:07 Asunto: Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends >Clark wrote: > >> them." Then again, she mentions saying a little prayer >> at the moment Klein asked her to play video games at >> the Santa Monica pier. > >Can you elaborate on this little item? I have never read this anywhere. > >Marian > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:47:00 GMT From: "Phil Klein" Subject: UK Joni Party > Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:39:44 +0100 > From: catman > Subject: Re: UK Joni party? > > Kevin is willing to come to my place, maybe Jacky. March is easy to get to by > road. A1 from north or south. and by train or coach. From London either A1 or > M11 dependiong on which end. > When we've heard from enough people perhaps we can then agree a date. > Assuming enough peeps think my place is okay. > I've been off the Joni scene for a few months (too much work and other stuff), but I would like to try and make this, depending on when it is. Thanks for the offer, Colin. Phil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 02:01:08 -0700 From: "C. G." Subject: Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends Wally Kairuz wrote: > yeah i remember that. she said something like "lord make him a good pinball > player and a good kisser please". i'm sure it was a musician magazine > interview. > wallyk Do you remember *your* favorite machine, When *you* were 18? And did you read *a* magazine, When you were *a* teen? Reason I ask? Taste from the flask And the mask of the man I must mean. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:20:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: "Unplugged & Jamming" -- a vile bootleg? Ran across what appeared to be an obvious, but nonethless interesting bootleg CD in a used shop this weekend ... "Joni Mitchell -- Unplugged and Jamming." Yeah, so the title's cheesy as hell, but the programming includes her numbers from Last Waltz, as well as some cover tunes and early TV show appearances. Is this a well-known bootleg, and are better quality performances available through the tape trees ... needless to say, I didn't buy it. Asking price was 24.99. Simon, are you there? ;-) Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:25:04 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends ? At 2:01 AM -0700 7/12/99, C. G. wrote: >Reason I ask? >Taste from the flask >And the mask of the man >I must mean. ____________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | home.revealed.net/Harpua | |__________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:39:19 -0700 From: "C. G." Subject: Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends Hi Mark, I meant myself ... and the self generally. As for flask, I meant the taste of my own words ... truth ... "reason." So, why was I looking at *a* magazine for *me*? Simplicity? Complexity? Why do we seem to need mirrors, when the mean = the meaning? Chris G. Mark Domyancich wrote: > > ? > > At 2:01 AM -0700 7/12/99, C. G. wrote: > >Reason I ask? > >Taste from the flask > >And the mask of the man > >I must mean.___________________________ > | Mark Domyancich | > | Harpua@revealed.net | > | home.revealed.net/Harpua | > |__________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:49:35 -0700 From: "C. G." Subject: Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends C. G. wrote: > > >Taste from the flask Perhaps it's because we taste, we sense, we consume "otherness"? "Well, surely you touched mine, 'Cause part of you flows out o' me In these lines from time to time ... Oh! You're in my blood, you're my holy wine, You taste so bitter, and so sweet! Oh I, could drink, A Case Of You-- darlin' And I would still be on my feet, I would still, be on my feet ... mmhmm mm hmmmhmm, mmhmm mmm mm-m!" She says it so much better, man. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:57:00 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends Clark-the Tarot and clairvoyance etc can hardly be described as New Age!! They ahve been around eons. I agree with you though about much New Age philosphy. It can be as fundie as any other 'religion' and attract the power freaks too just as the other fundies stuff does too. However, the situations you describe are the result of human falibilty not the result of Tarot or Clairvoyance. It is people who have these gifts and people who decide whether to use them for good or ill. It is vital that one is on good terms with the self and 'god' and be able to be honest with one's self. many 'prophets' of many persuasions have proved to be wrong and some to be right. The recipients of any message should really weigh it up, decide for themselves and do as their free will dictates. I would also add that a message that is not backed up by evidence(ie information known to you to be accurate-like details about a passed over loved one that is factual and not known by the message giver by ordinary means), should be weighed very carefully indeed. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 12:11:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - July 12 1983: Joni performs at the CNE Bandshell in Toronto. A setlist and review by James Leahy can be found at: http://www.jonimitchell.com/Toronto83.html 1993: (from Wally's bio): [Today], Joni made an appearance at the Beverly Hilton in Hollywood at comic legend Milton Berle's 86th birthday party. She sang "Night Ride Home" in front of a roomful of comedians and Hollywood legends. See a few photos at: http://www.jonimitchell.com/BerleBirthday93.html 1994: (from Wally's bio): The supermarket rag "The Globe" had this headline in [today's] issue - "Songbird Joni Searches For Love Child She Had At 19." It was only that year that Joni had begun to talk about the child she gave up for adoption in 1965. Joni told "Vogue" magazine: "I had had a child, and I was broke, literally penniless. And I met Chuck Mitchell, and he said he would take us on. I was kind of railroaded...we were never suitable. I went down the aisle saying 'I can get out of this.'" She did soon divorce Chuck, after she'd also given up her daughter for adoption. - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:34:05 -0700 From: "C. G." Subject: Am I the only one who believes in "Ana-mancy"? People, Am I the only one who thinks that anagrams of our names have a special significance, at least to a person reading their own, precisely because that person brings so much self-knowledge and thus significance to the 'adjustments' and 'substitutions' of Meaning which the PROCESS of reading anagrams takes one through?? They are generated by our computers in such a way that one word or more is held constant while the changes are smaller, until a new "base"/"root" word 'surfaces" and faces one's mildly perplexed and inquisitive and amused state (I find). Thus, it's an art of meaning, a de-structured + re-self-structuring poem, in a cascade through one's comprehension? For example, Tarot cards are pictorially like archetypes and mythic identities which one can readily relate to, without needing too much in the way of language or rhythm from the cards as the source, but gets that info from the human, the diviner. During both, the PROCESS of moving from one State to the next is a Process we can identify with deeply, right? And yet anagrams 'Open' paths of meaning which are AND are not like transitioning through psychological and mythological states. That "AND" means that "I" must supply significance to the process, right? Esp. if the anagrams are quickly flowing ... line upon line upon line. So is it understandably a preference regarding the degree of creativity brought to the Weighing Process, as Colin you've just said I think, though perhaps you meant some even greater possibilities when you said "will"? Or, with anagrams, is the degree of freedom that is Tied To An Algorithm after all (!), simply tangential ... and ... too twiggy? :-) ... Or too much, as the mountain is beautiful but one cannot fathom its weight? "First there is a mountain! Then there is no mountain, Then there is! Oh, Juanita! Oh, Juanita! Oh, Juanita! I call your name!" --Donovan Chris, thinking I'm better off on branches than twigs! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:25:58 EDT From: RADJSHARP@aol.com Subject: The Three Great Stimulants Dear All: As a card carrying lurker, I regret this question but you may be able to help. Two of our daughters were recently defined in an email as being "the good-looking one" and "the great personality one." Of course the daughter with great personality is looking for some affirmation that great personality will serve her better in the long run than good looks. I would like to respond in a fatherly way i.e. showing concern for both daughters for the near and far term, and I wonder [as I search for good response], whether the List has ever attacked the Three Great Stimulants from an interpersonal standpoint. Artifice, brutality and innocence, while they may be self-stimulating, rarely stimulate others favorably. I am wondering what it is in us that stimulates others in a favorable way and I am loathe to direct the discussion by even throwing out suggestions. What in your experience would you tell your daughters are the three great stimulants that define us favorably toward others? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts, Bob [not Dylan, who was in concert in St. Louis this past weekend with Paul Simon] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:09:38 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: "Unplugged & Jamming" -- a vile bootleg? Don, I'm no expert in the field, but here's what I know: There's actually Vol. 1 & 2 of "Unplugged & Jamming" it's very good stuff! I have a great copy of Vol. 1 on CD (not a purchased bootleg) but I don't as yet have a rundown of what the origins of the songs are...It does have a live version of "Yvette" which is a rarity... Vol. 2 I have on cassette, I'm sure that better copies are out there being traded in Joniland. I do, however, have a listing of what's on it, and for me the highlight is the Johnny Cash/Joni stuff. Johnny was obviously smitten with Joni and also was aware of her immense talents...he keeps calling her a "pretty little thing", she does BSN, The Gallery, and they duet on a couple of country songs, and she sounds great...she seems to cut loose more (even back then) when she's singing someone else's lyric, maybe she's not as concerned with being misunderstood or misjudged. Also on this collection are some Pete Seeger Duets and a nutty thing with Fred Neil called "The Dolphin Song". All in all, it's a very fun collection of tracks. It's not my decision, but this stuff should be treed ASAP to maintain the highest quality and the easiest general distribution. A lot of this material is historically important and significant to Joni fans... That's my story and I'm sticking to it... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:45:55 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: i couldn't resist I couldn't resist: I bought that Hinton Joni Mitchell book. I found it cheap in a used bin, and I soooo wanted a book on Joni Mitchell. Even a bad one. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 23:51:54 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: Demo Hissing Paul C. wrote: "I had also been waiting a while for the dust to settle on the 'Hissing of Summer Lawns' demo but can wait no longer. I can't tell you how much I would love to hear this and, again, would be happy to be a CD-cutting branch for the Europeans (or anyone really). " I am chomping at the bit to get my ears on this one. I would be happy to burn some cd's for anyone who gets a good copy of this demo. Where did this originate anyway, does any one know? Simon? Cheers, Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:09:27 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 16:07:37 -0500 From: Melinda Everett CarltonCT@aol.com wrote: > Hey JMDLers - > > Feel like I have been away from all of you for too long, but I've been > meeting a deadline. I've read a lot of posts in the past in which some of us > describe ROSES BLUE as their least favorite track from CLOUDS, but it's > always been an important song to me: Joni's portrait of someone who gets in > too deep on New Age beliefs. > > I've just seen too many friendships, businesses and relationships get > destroyed when people took a tarot reading or clairvoyant prophecy as truth. > Clark--a very powerful message. Thanks for speaking up. It does seem that a lot of people who get into the whole "New Age" thing think it's a superior path, as if they are no longer as human as others. Such a shame. I worked at a "New Age" shop--and the experience was total hell. The owners were such control freaks. There were so many power issues, and all going on behind this facade of "Oh, we're so spiritual, we're so peaceful and enlightened . . . " and it was really just f*(#ed up. > Colin's right -- the magic comes from within. I love looking at the > pictures of the Rider Tarot deck, but it's better to look through the whole > deck and pick out the ones which have meaning for you on any given day rather > than accept the ten random ones which are dealt to you. D'accord about the beauty inside (isn't this phrase in a song somehwere?) After I came out of the experience at the New Rage shop, I started getting into Joni. I mentioned Woman of Heart and Mind before, and it also applies here, because in the very song Joni says, "All this talk about holiness now must be the start of the latest style, is it all books and words or do you really feel it do you really laugh do you really care do you really smile when you smile?" THat line really said it for me. I mean, she really calls people on their bullshit, you know? She's brave, strong, and bold, and authentic, and her spirituality is authentic. That's what I admire about her and what inspires me. If it doesn't move you, say it don't, question authority! YOu go, girl! and a lot of her songs are to me about her personal journey, her telling it like it is for her. THat's what those cards I mentioned in my last message seem to me to be about. Oh and then on FTR in Barangrill she sees the waitresses as enlightened--because they're just into their lives, just chatting it up, being themselves. The beauty within--just be yourself! Very cool. Because all the "guru books" can't do it for you. > Given my own skeptical nature, I make the assumption that Joni is as much of > a skeptic as I am. "Advice and religion you can't take them, you can't seem > to believe them." Then again, she mentions saying a little prayer at the > moment Klein asked her to play video games at the Santa Monica pier. > Being on your own path involves skepticism, you have to really be willing to check what you read out with your voice within to see if it does it for you. I know Joni's into or was into the I Ching--the recent post about a painting (Abundance and Decline), the line about the hexagram of the heavens (so gorgeous). But at a basis, what I really love about Joni is her courage to accept what calls to her and reject what doesn't. Roses Blue is a song I really love, too, for it points to all the dangers of what the New Age "Magic" can generate. Thanks again, Clark. Melinda ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Don't grab my hand don't stand in my way I'll read the stars by night and the cards by day And when the Wheel goes 'round and the story is told Well it was all for a dream of a River of Gold." ~~Eliza Gilkyson~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:26:00 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: Demo Hissing Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:05:41 -0400 From: lisa durfee michael paz wrote: > 'Hissing of Summer Lawns' demo ...... Where did > this originate anyway, does any one know? Cheers, > > Michael I dont know, but Brian Gross very generously gave me a copy of this when we met at the JoniSJAzz concert (thanks again Brian!!)and it is quite unique in that Jonis voice sounds very pre-FTR to me on some songs. Maybe my walkman plays a bit fast or something, but it has this wonderful time-warped quality to it --Joni doing "edith" in an almost LOTC voice. liså D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:42:04 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Demo Hissing Bounced Message wrote: > Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:05:41 -0400 > From: lisa durfee > > I dont know, but Brian Gross very generously gave me a copy of this when > we met at the JoniSJAzz concert (thanks again Brian!!) Well, well. Here I was sitting right in front of you and Brian, you're the newbie, I'm the oldie, and you get the tape! I'm jealous! Jerry np: Puccini and Pasta ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:07:08 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Demo Hissing I've noticed that too. Her voice sounds a lot like that on LOTC, very breezy and full of life. I wonder why her voice didn't sound like that on the final cuts? At 11:26 AM -0600 7/12/99, Lisa Durfee wrote: > > I dont know, but Brian Gross very generously gave me a copy of this when >we met at the JoniSJAzz concert (thanks again Brian!!)and it is quite >unique in that Jonis voice sounds very pre-FTR to me on some songs. Maybe >my walkman plays a bit fast or something, but it has this wonderful >time-warped quality to it --Joni doing "edith" in an almost LOTC voice. > ____________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | home.revealed.net/Harpua | |__________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:16:06 +0100 From: Christopher Dainty Subject: out of the dark lurking over...... catman wrote "march would be OK".... count me in What should we bring ? Chris D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:30:17 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: trip-hop joni Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:20:08 +0100 From: Martin Giles Jason wrote : I was listening to The Bridge I Burned, one of the "new" tracks on Elvis Costello's 1997 compilation of his Warner years - "Extreme Honey". It completely blew me away, with its use of modern "trip-hoppy" beats, fragmented chords and disjointed-but-tuneful melodies. It just sounded so fresh allied to Costello's distinctive vocals, a voice which I'd grown accustomed to hearing in other suroundings....The Costello track instantly led to me wondering why Joni has shown no sign of embracing the same kind of ingredients into her current work....Personally, the idea of such a combination between Joni and current technology/production/song construction, is endlessly appealing. Reaction No.1 Bleeeeaarrrrghghhhhh!! Reaction No.2 A few days ago, I posted something along the lines of, "I prefer Joni when she is just singing and playing guitar by herself, other musicians seem to dilute her impact." This was after getting copies of the JMDL tape tree videos, and seeing her perform solo, songs that I only previously knew as band renditions. I was struck by how much more I focused in when she played solo. Looking back, I now see why I never took to DED as much as some other albums - it was because the production techniques were so attention grabbing. The idea of Joni's songs being constructed of slowed down drum loops, DJ scratching and whacky sampler filtering strikes a chill in my soul. Truly a DED of the late nineties. You may like it, or you may not -I personally would not!! Jason, no offense intended - I'm only expressing my personal taste, I actually quite like a lot of the stuff that comes from that techo/trip-hop/drum and bass school - For instance do you know Cold Cut's 'Let Us Play' Album, or Art Of Noise's just released 'The Seduction Of Claude Debussy'? Both favorites of mine. But damn it all! Everything in its place don't you know. ;-) Martin. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 16:04:34 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: out of the dark In a message dated 7/12/99 3:32:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dainty_c@bucks.net writes: > lurking over...... > catman wrote "march would be OK".... > count me in > What should we bring ? > Chris D Is this the Chris D. who met Joni after the Central Park tribute? Don't keep us in suspense. Did Kilauren have a boy or a girl? Did Joni say? Gina ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:16:49 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: Demo Hissing Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 16:12:55 -0400 From: lisa durfee Jerry Notaro wrote: > > From: lisa durfee > > > > I dont know, but Brian Gross very generously gave me a copy of this when > > we met at the JoniSJAzz concert (thanks again Brian!!) > > Well, well. Here I was sitting right in front of you and Brian, you're the > newbie, I'm the oldie, and you get the tape! I'm jealous! > > Jerry Jerry-Brian gave me the tape when we were standing in/on line behind closed gates while you were already inside with your official looking Joni Mitchell shirt on. liså D PS I subscribed to the Joni list in December, posted twice, and then lurked through 7 months til Jonisjazz. Does that still make me a newbie? :^) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 17:30:20 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: UK Joni party? In a message dated 10/07/99 17:57:36 GMT Daylight Time, Gertus@aol.com writes: << I'm in deepest Sussex. Please count me in wherever. I can get to London or Oxford in about the same time. Colin's place might take a bit longer, I don't know, but what a generous invitation. Thanks Colin. It would be great to meet some of you people. Jacky >> Count me in too; Colin, I had to read your post twice: at first I thought you were suggesting meeting in March next year!. A weekend would certainly be better for me, dunno about everyone else Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:18:00 EDT From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: The judds, both sides now. Just a quick note on the movie the Judds last night, I happened to see the later part of the movie Sunday night and Wynonna's first pubic debute was singing in her high school in Marin county, she chose " Both sides now". I'll try to catch the end tonight to see if they credit our beloved Joni. By the way, was the baby born July 1, A boy or a girl? My best to all of you, and a big hug to Wally. Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 23:41:30 BST From: "R Joseph" Subject: Attention Joni Lovers Any gay Joni fans out there? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:17:32 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: UK Joni party? Three people so far wanting to meet at my place. Anymore takers? Once we know who is coming , we can then sort out when and food etc colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 01:06:32 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: UK Joni party? AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > Count me in too; Colin, I had to read your post twice: at first I thought you > were suggesting meeting in March next year!. A weekend would certainly be > better for me, dunno about everyone else > > Azeem Yes, I would also only be able to make a weekend, so if that's what it ends up being there's a good chance I'll be able to come along. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 01:22:42 +0200 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Plug Of The Week #27 Hi there, Thanks to Russ and Julie Paris ( of Jackson Browne Website fame ) I found another great artist and another great album a couple of weeks ago : Darryl Purpose - Travelers' Code ( Tangible Music ) Darryl is one of folk music's fastest rising singer/songwriters. The album shows a maturation rarely seen from an artist who's only been touring the circuit fulltime for two years. Considered by many as a modern-day Harry Chapin ( with a slice of James Taylor's voice thrown in ), his ability to tell a tale keeps his audiences glued not just to their seats, but to every word. The album includes the Lucy Kaplansky duet "Ring On My Hand" and Ellis Paul guests on "Child Of Hearts". Musicians include Bob Malone, David Miner ( who also produced the album ), Ron Aniello and Daryl S. Copies of this album ( as well as his two previous albums "Right Side Of Zero" and "Same River Twice" ) is available from : Tangible Music PO Box 340 Merrick NY 11566-0340 U.S.A Phone: 516 409 5433 Fax : 561 679 1377 Email: info@tangible-music.com Website : http://www.tangible-music.com This man should be a star! Take care, Peter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 22:31:46 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: dog eat dog, and '80s joni again. this one has been sitting, demanding a response... bob writes: >I think Klein is to blame i get so tired of klein being blamed for everything that is not right with joni's wild things to indigo output, and never getting credit for what works. for one thing, it defies reality. joni has talked about the collaboration in almost every interview, for ten years. every concert introduction shows her love and respect. and to imagine that joni was completely pulled by the nose on ded, or any other project, goes against everything we've ever learned about her. she's pretty damned hard-assed. my take is that wtrf was the beginning of a collaboration, an odd phase in joni's progression (going to blunt rock after mingus would have been strange even if larry weren't involved.) joni has spoken about the label springing producers on her, for ded. but she also seems really proud of the album. i'm not sure which joni to believe. but if she really thought that dolby fucked the album up, would she have used him on chalkmark? and michael paz wrote >the EVIL Thomas Dolby's influence i can't go back and figure out why dolby was brought into this project, but i have to offer: dog eat dog was released in '85. dolby's reputation at the time almost certainly had something to do with his second studio album, 'the flat earth', released in 1983. that album is in nearly every way superior to ded. the sound is perfect, the production for each song is absolutely appropriate to the song (as opposed to ded, where inappropriateness is the major flaw). it doesn't reflect badly on joni to understand that she used an instrument (t. dolby) in a way that didn't serve her music, but it doesn't make sense to blame the instrument. back to the klein-bashing, doesn't it make more sense to think of wtrf and ded as steps along the klein-mitch collaboration rather than mistakes she made because of that big old bad man? there is incredibly strong evidence that they both learned from their experiences. first is chalkmark, an album that i love dearly. still thick with production, but the production fits the songs, which makes it a massive improvement over dog eat dog. lakota? i'm listening to the ded version of three great stimulants (from ded) right now, and yes, i love the acoustic versions better. but i'm hearing lakota in my head, and knowing that an acoustic version would never match the original. i feel this way about most of the chalkmark songs. and bob offers, 'I'm also guessing that it was idea to get all the "guests" that appear on Joni's 80's work in an attempt to make her more marketable (Lionel Ritchie, Billy Idol, Willie Nelson).' that's a pretty unsubstantiated guess, bob; blaming klein. and further, the duet thing was big in the '80s (and is still big) but not necessarily bad. joni had her favorites, and when she boarded the duet train, she usually made it part of her artistic growth, especially on chalkmark. though i truly hate 'good friends', i don't think of it as craven; her friendship with michael mcdonald is well known (his wife collects her artwork, and she loves his voice). her chalkmark collaborators were also friends. in context of a life, chalkmark sounds more like joni working with people she wanted to work with, than an attempt to make her more marketable. she wrote songs that were so right for her fellow singers. if klein's to blame for that, good for him. the duets on chalkmark, for the most part, rise far above the usual phone-in shit. secret place, snakes and ladders, cool water? this is brilliance. continuing on the klein contribution, what about night ride home? it sounds stripped down, but it most definitely is not; it's one of her most complex productions, with larry almost under her skin understanding what she wanted. every interview of the time credits his contribution. it's also her best album since hejira. in my view, her third finest album ever, and i'm sure happy that klein crossed her path, and helped her to make night ride home. patrick, hoping that comments like >experiment with voice manipulations, sampling, all that electronic goop that just doesn't ring true on a Joni record.> will never prevent joni from being the final arbiter of what rings true on a joni record. np - joni - lucky girl - my favorite moment on ded. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 12:49:41 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: Joni and her many men.... I've been wanting to write this post for awhile.....wanting to know how JMDLers felt about this issue....What do we think about Joni and her many men? It seems that she's found love in so many places, but moved on each time to find something new...Is she just one of those people that attract so many people to her, has men falling in love with her all over the place? I find myself trying to defend her when people talk about her being a bit of a 'free spirit' in the negative sense of the words...I've heard people joke about how she went thru Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young - and Taylor, and maybe Cohen and does the list go on?....And after reading things about her, I sometimes struggle to defend her.....not that she shouldn't be allowed to love and be with who ever she wants?? Was she really with a lot of men? And do you think she will ever settle down? or is she one of those people that are just too much of a 'free spirit' - in the GOOD sense of the term? I'd really like to know what you guys think...and, as someone said before, I really hope Joni isn't out there reading this, cos she'd probably tell me to mind my own business..... But, as a young woman who has not experienced being in and out of love with many men, I wonder about it....the notion of being with many people, whether it's a good, growing/maturity thing...whether it leaves you loveless and alone?? Help me - all you wise wise Listers Ange Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:46:28 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni and her many men.... Angela, I don't know that I have a "wise" opinion but I have always regarded Joni as a "Good" free spirit. It has always seemed perfectly natural to me that she has experienced a full life of love. Yes, scores of men were in love with her and many of them were quite attractive to her on many levels and brought much to enhance her life and art. In articles and interviews she has called herself a "serial monogamist" and I think that really suits her. A lot of love has come her way and she also has an abundance to give in return. Many know of the Rolling Stone "flow chart" from the 70s that charted all her many actual and alleged lovers. She was very insulted by it and rightfully so. I had a boyfriend once who infuriated me into a big argument by saying Joni was a loose party girl in the old days. Although he professed to love her as much as I did, I knew right then he didn't really "get" who she was at all. It irks me to even recall his comments! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:20:52 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: dog eat dog, and '80s joni again. > i get so tired of klein being blamed for everything that is not right with > joni's wild things to indigo output, and never getting credit for what > works. for one thing, it defies reality. joni has talked about the > collaboration in almost every interview, for ten years. every concert > introduction shows her love and respect. and to imagine that joni was > completely pulled by the nose on ded, or any other project, goes against > everything we've ever learned about her. she's pretty damned hard-assed. A hearty 'AMEN' to this. I for one cannot imagine Joni being so swept off her feet that she would allow anyone to push in any direction musically or artistically. Klein may have been a collaborator but you can't tell me that Joni wasn't at the helm the whole time. > > my take is that wtrf was the beginning of a collaboration, an odd phase in > joni's progression (going to blunt rock after mingus would have been strange > even if larry weren't involved.) I don't see WTRF as blunt rock. There are jazz overtones all over it. It's a transitionary record. She's still playing with jazz but she's heading in a new direction. the sound is perfect, the production for each song is > absolutely appropriate to the song (as opposed to ded, where > inappropriateness is the major flaw). I have to disagree about the production of DED being inappropriate. Her subject matter is encapsulated in the albums title and the production suits it perfectly. Most of it is harsh & mechanical sounding. The perfect background for her take on the harsh, hard, glittering, dog-eat-dog world of the 80's. Not pretty or pleasant maybe, but appropriate to her subject. I think the album succeeds in being what she envisioned it to be. > continuing on the klein contribution, what about night ride home? it sounds > stripped down, but it most definitely is not; it's one of her most complex > productions, with larry almost under her skin understanding what she wanted. > every interview of the time credits his contribution. it's also her best > album since hejira. in my view, her third finest album ever, and i'm sure > happy that klein crossed her path, and helped her to make night ride home. And again a heartfelt AMEN to Patrick's comments on NRH. As brilliant and beautiful as anything else Joni has done and that includes the sacred Hejira. Mark the Heretic in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:26:37 -0700 From: "Gene Mock" Subject: Re: Joni and her many men.... Woman of heart and mind, I wish I was on her short list. Love? You gotta take when it's given, no greater gift is there. Take Care gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: Takats, Angela To: 'joni' Sent: Monday, July 12, 1999 7:49 PM Subject: Joni and her many men.... > I've been wanting to write this post for awhile.....wanting to know how > JMDLers felt about this issue....What do we think about Joni and her many > men? It seems that she's found love in so many places, but moved on each > time to find something new...Is she just one of those people that attract so > many people to her, has men falling in love with her all over the place? I > find myself trying to defend her when people talk about her being a bit of a > 'free spirit' in the negative sense of the words...I've heard people joke > about how she went thru Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young - and Taylor, and > maybe Cohen and does the list go on?....And after reading things about her, > I sometimes struggle to defend her.....not that she shouldn't be allowed to > love and be with who ever she wants?? Was she really with a lot of men? And > do you think she will ever settle down? or is she one of those people that > are just too much of a 'free spirit' - in the GOOD sense of the term? > I'd really like to know what you guys think...and, as someone said before, I > really hope Joni isn't out there reading this, cos she'd probably tell me to > mind my own business..... > > But, as a young woman who has not experienced being in and out of love with > many men, I wonder about it....the notion of being with many people, whether > it's a good, growing/maturity thing...whether it leaves you loveless and > alone?? > > Help me - all you wise wise Listers > Ange > Sydney > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:13:26 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: dog eat dog, and '80s joni again. Patrick wrote: > back to the klein-bashing, doesn't it make more sense to think of wtrf and > ded as steps along the klein-mitch collaboration rather than mistakes she > made because of that big old bad man? there is incredibly strong evidence > that they both learned from their experiences. first is chalkmark, an album > that i love dearly. still thick with production, but the production fits > the songs, which makes it a massive improvement over dog eat dog. lakota? > i'm listening to the ded version of three great stimulants (from ded) right > now, and yes, i love the acoustic versions better. but i'm hearing lakota > in my head, and knowing that an acoustic version would never match the > original. i feel this way about most of the chalkmark songs. I've been thinking about the 80s albums and DED even before this thread began. While I've stated in the past my feeling that they are more a collaboration than a singular effort, there is much in them that I really love. And surprisingly to even myself, I think DED is the best of the 80s group. (I can hear Don/Larry hitting the floor in a dead faint as he reads this ;-) The 80s albums are a "different" Joni to me and one that felt like a departure, but not a bad one. Just my subjective opinion - while I love many songs on WTRF like Moon At The Window, Chinese Cafe, Love, and even Underneath The Streetlights, I think it is the weakest of the three 80s albums because it feels uneven to me. I've always loved Chalkmark, but more for the lush layers and gorgeous music, rather than the overall lyrics, which I think are among her weakest. DED is the most "even" to me overall in terms of lyrics and melody. I can tune out the added "goop" and still really love the music on DED. It shines through regardless of the production or Dolby or Larry or whatever. Someone mentioned hearing the guitar version of "The Three Great Stimulants" - thanks to Phyliss I listened to the DED interview tape over the weekend which included that version and it is beautiful. Also have to mention that Joni performed the guitar version of it during the tapings last May. It was the biggest surprise of the night for a number of us. Unfortunately it was cut, along with many other great songs like Slouching Toward Bethlehem, from the final PPV/video. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:06:39 -0400 From: "Eric G. Postel" Subject: Re: dog eat dog, and '80s joni again. I agree -- DED is one of her best ever records. one reason can only be appreciated if one considers the general situation -- at the time, the economy was booming and everybody loved Reagen and liberals were in a major retreat and many artists had stopped tackling political subjects -- then along comes Joni with a seriously hard hitting set of lyrics about how everything was not okay. she was years ahead of others. add to that interesting and innovative music and DED is a knockout. On the personal side, i played the first three songs for perhaps three months straight with my new baby daughter on my shoulder -- it was, believe it or not, great lullabye music. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:11:59 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: dog eat dog, and '80s joni again. In a message dated 7/12/99 11:32:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << Just my subjective opinion - while I love many songs on WTRF like Moon At The Window, Chinese Cafe, Love, and even Underneath The Streetlights, I think it is the weakest of the three 80s albums because it feels uneven to me. I've always loved Chalkmark, but more for the lush layers and gorgeous music, rather than the overall lyrics, which I think are among her weakest. DED is the most "even" to me overall in terms of lyrics and melody. >> Oddly enough, I would rank them in exactly the opposite order. WTRF is the only one of the three that I can listen to all the way through in one sitting. There are a couple of songs on DED and Chalkmark that I like, but overall I consider those two albums her most uneven because each has a couple of songs I don't enjoy listening to. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:56:56 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and her many men.... This is a subject that I've often pondered. While cleaning out my hall closet not that long ago, I came across some old poetry notebooks that I wrote in during my high school years. One poem was about Joni and her men and wondered about commitment and monogamy and her Joni-ness and how it all tied into life. I didn't have much of a clue then, but now I think that Joni's "serial monogamy" has less to do with being a "Good" free sprit and more to do with the huge, huge scars of going through a pregnancy all alone, dealing with the swollen body, the birth, the aches and pains of postpartum to coming to the awful realization that she couldn't raise this baby alone. Throw in the complication of Chuck Mitchell who said that he could deal with the baby and then did a 180, I think that you have the ingredients for a heart that is "full and hollow." In many ways, I think that the label of "free spirit" is a handy thing to keep things close, but not too close for comfort. Having said this, in no way do I see her as "loose" or deserving of that Rolling Stones' "Old Lady of the Year" garbage. And those are my thoughts from the furnace that is my bedroom, MG np: "JMDL: Live" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 22:02:15 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: Joni and her many men.... Ange wrote: I find myself trying to defend her when people talk about her being a bit of a 'free spirit' in the negative sense of the words...I've heard people joke about how she went thru Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young - and Taylor, and maybe Cohen and does the list go on?....And after reading things about her, I sometimes struggle to defend her.... I can't profess wisdom either, but to quote Jesus to the crowd when a woman was caught in adultery: "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." That's the same guidline I follow and would readily state. I can't say I personally agree with every lifestyle choice Joni has made, but to judge her is not my responcibility nor that of the others that make the jokes you hear. Maybe you could remind them that the woman we love has got a wonderfully sensitive heart, a deeply probing mind and a tremendous talent at expressing her insights through her artistic talents....enriching all of our lives. And the judging should be left up to God who gave her all of those gifts. Peace, Penny ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 22:51:26 -0700 From: Susan Chaloner Subject: Re: Joni and her many men.... Penny wrote: > And the judging should > be left up to God who gave her all of those gifts. What is all this judging talk? The Great Spirit would not judge. The Great Spirit would not find it necessary...but then the Great Spirit is not puffed up...The Great Spirit just is...Now why don't we all try just being in the moment...Dare I suggest that we all run away and wrestle with our great big egos? Carry on Joni ;~) Susan L.A. Honey McBabe-"...Did Jesus have a baby sister Was she bitter, was she sweet Did she wind up in a convent Did she end up on the street On the run, on the stage, did she dance Did he have a sister, a little baby sister Did Jesus have a sister Did they give her a chance?... Did she long to be a saviour saving everyone she met And in private to her mirror did she whisper Saviorette, saviour woman, saviour person Save your breath..."-Dory Previn ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #115 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! 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