From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #114 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Monday, July 12 1999 Volume 01 : Number 114 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Philly Dreaming' [Ladygrammy@aol.com] Re: Joni and Tarot Musings [Ashara@aol.com] Taming The Tiger(JC) [Lisa Kowalski ] RE: JMDL Digest V4 #303 [Doug Barrett ] Friends have come to find they can't be friends [CarltonCT@aol.com] Hi Joniphiles everywhere! ["R Joseph" ] An old fan! ["Barbara Jolley" ] Re: Furry Sings the Blues ["Mark or Travis" ] re: park tribute ["Takats, Angela" ] Re: Furry Sings the Blues [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com] Re: An old fan! [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com] Re: Furry Sings the Blues ["Mark or Travis" ] joni's jazz, dreams and grandchildren [Nicholas Bates ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:25:13 EDT From: Ladygrammy@aol.com Subject: Philly Dreaming' Dear Jim, I was so excited to read about the show in Philly at the second fret in 1968. Philly is where I am from. I was just discovering Joni at that time buying her albums near Temple University at Jerry's records for $2.99 a piece. Boy I would love to have any recording of my girl that I can find. Tell me how to send you a tape or DAT and I will be happy to do it. Still enjoying this whole list. Still laughing at what Joni might think of so many people analyzing her existance. Jan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 11:52:53 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and Tarot Musings Melinda pondered: << Any tarot readers in JMDL land? >> Rest assured, Melinda, you are not alone! I have been reading cards for many, many years as one small part of my work. Although, in the past 5 years or so, I have hardly used them. Colin said it so eloquently: <> So true, yet they are still fun and magical at times, to take out and ponder over. Then Bob said: <<(incidentally not a tarot card reader but a mean Hearts & Bridge player...)>> Hmmmmm....if we can find two more, we can have a cookin' bridge game during Jonifest! Will you be my partner, Bob? .....3 no trump? Hugs, Ashara {from the glorious mountains of New Hampshire....I may NEVER leave!} ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 12:17:01 From: Lisa Kowalski Subject: Taming The Tiger(JC) I found this very interesting book at Borders Books the other day;Cats compiled by Andrew Edney.It's a collection of more than 300 depictions of cats in art.One particular painting caught my attention ;"When The Stars Threw Down Their Spears"by Iris Polos and I thought that sounds like a Joni lyric!In TTT Joni sings "I watched the stars chuck down their spears" and I thought I wonder if this is where Joni obtained that particular phrase? This could not be a coincidence.Well it turns out that this particular painting is part of series of five paintings entitiled Tyger:New Drawings,each of which interprets a stanza from the poem The Tyger by William Blake!!One human body feature is incorporated in each painting and the series culminates in the portrayal of God as a complete human body with a tigers face.So I don't think that phrase in the song was a coincidence! I thought it was very interesting and didnt know if anyone else on the list was aware of the origin of that particular lyric so I thought I would share! Take care...Lisa ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 12:33:20 -0500 From: Doug Barrett Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V4 #303 <> In my opinion, this album represents a somewhat failed attempt at conquering one more mountain. She had already scaled folk, jazz, and pop (with the meanest and most audacious fusion that would make even Van Morrison and Steely Dan somewhat jealous). She had recorded perhaps the best and most daring run of albums from Blue to DJRD in history. What was left to do? Well, techno was hot at the time, so why not go out and conquer it too? The results are there for all. It is not that DED is a "bad album," but by Joni standards it ranks near the bottom for most fans. (Apologies to any in the minority. I think I saw the DED fan club riding a unicycle recently.) In any event, if this album had been recorded by another techno artist (say, Howard Jones) it would have been hailed by critics with four stars. And you must remember, many of her fans (and critics) were almost orgasmic following WTRF, hailing it as a return to the C&S days (though just why I have yet to understand). Personally, I rank DED near the bottom. This says much more about the extremely high quality of her other efforts that the low quality of this one. My biggest problem with DED is the low quality of the music. The lyrics stack up fairly well. Of course, as Lennon said, if you want great lyrics then read poetry. This album is especially a letdown in that it signaled an end to the run of her jazzy stuff (which, thankfully returned on TTT). Even WTRF had a strong jazz component, though obviously nothing compared to the Mingus that immediately preceded it. Of course, I have found much of her post-DJRD worth many repeated listenings. DED is the one that logs the least time in my CD player. That, I suppose, is the best indicator. Doug ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 14:02:43 EDT From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: Friends have come to find they can't be friends Hey JMDLers - Feel like I have been away from all of you for too long, but I've been meeting a deadline. I've read a lot of posts in the past in which some of us describe ROSES BLUE as their least favorite track from CLOUDS, but it's always been an important song to me: Joni's portrait of someone who gets in too deep on New Age beliefs. I've just seen too many friendships, businesses and relationships get destroyed when people took a tarot reading or clairvoyant prophecy as truth. I worked at a nonprofit organization dedicated to feeding people with AIDS and it was nearly destroyed by its once famous founder who justified her rash, destructive behavior as being sanctioned by her unique channel to God. She used astrology to determine a candidate's eligibility in interviews for positions, and fired employees when she learned that they had different spiritual beliefs -- especially if they were beliefs that did not validate her as a guide in their lives. She consulted both the Tarot and the Ouija board. We also had a particularly power hungry volunteer who was a psychic who used her cheery predictions to lure people into her influence, and then proceeded to fuck with their lives and manipulate them. The end result was a disastrous feud that nearly ended this important organization. And NONE of that psychic's predictions ever came true but I hear that she still wields influence over some of the people who remain there. That is just one story - -- I have many. Colin's right -- the magic comes from within. I love looking at the pictures of the Rider Tarot deck, but it's better to look through the whole deck and pick out the ones which have meaning for you on any given day rather than accept the ten random ones which are dealt to you. Given my own skeptical nature, I make the assumption that Joni is as much of a skeptic as I am. "Advice and religion you can't take them, you can't seem to believe them." Then again, she mentions saying a little prayer at the moment Klein asked her to play video games at the Santa Monica pier. - - Clark np: Scritti Politti, Cupid and Psyche ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 21:06:43 BST From: "R Joseph" Subject: Hi Joniphiles everywhere! I am a long term Joni freak from England who would love to contact similarly gifted people the world over! British people who have discovered the magic are VERY thin on the ground over here so I would especially like to hear from any Brits or Europeans. But if you're a Joni fan and particularly if you're into the "Hissing of..." to the "Shadows and..." era (plus the latest two albums) - it would just about make my year to get a reply or two. I saw Joni just the once (in London in 1983 when I was very very young!) but still consider it the most special day in my life. Please please, someone e-mail me on: hrodelbert@hotmail.com Robbie J, UK. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 22:20:47 BST From: "Barbara Jolley" Subject: An old fan! Just found the discussion cafe via Wally Breese's web page. Would like to hear from any other fans who were "there at the start"! Barbara jolleyba@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 14:25:36 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Furry Sings the Blues > Very interesting comparison, this between For Free and Furry--nice > alliteration, too ;-)! There's a nice juxtaposition/limbo that Joni's > in. In For Free, she's a few steps ahead of the clarinetist on the > street corner, and is exploring the nature of this difference. And in > Furry, to me she is seeing an Elder, an experienced, weathered musician. > She looks up to both, but also moves on after gleaning what is meaningful > to her. This hadn't occured to me but I like it! She is further down the road of her carreer than the clarinetist and Furry's career is pretty much over when she meets him. She's seeing the possibilities of what her own life might be or might have been like. > > I've got > > some ideas about Hejira running around my head. But I guess Hejira's > > kind of obvious so I won't bore you with it now. > > > > Later, > > Mark in Seattle > > Mark, bore away! (in private if you wish) > > Melinda > Thanks, Melinda. I'm still mulling it all over but basically I see the line in Coyote 'I tried to run away myself' as the jumping off point and theme of Hejira. She's reached a state of crisis in her life and the opportunity appears to run away from it and she goes for it. Amelia states the various directions she either can run or already has run. None of them pan out. Then there are two portraits of people who, in their own way, either have run away or are running away. Furry by becoming a besotted hermit and the Strange Boy by refusing to face reality and grow up. Hejira re-examines her own escape and some of the reasons for it. Song for Sharon is addressed to an old friend who has chosen a more conventional and settled lifestyle. Sharon provides a sounding board and a contrast to Joni's frenetic existence. Black Crow is Joni looking straight in the mirror and facing her demons, very little intellectualizing, just a visceral examination of her restless nature. She is the black crow, diving down to pick up on every shiny thing. But by this time she's getting tired of running. In Blue Motel Room she's ready to go home and wondering if there's any chance she can put the relationship that was falling apart back together and make it succeed. Refuge of the Roads is the summing up. She has found some solace in her restless moving around but that thunderhead of judgement tells her that the road is not an ultimate solution. At least not for her. She has, however, gained some perspective as she looks at that marbled bowling ball on the wall of that service station. She has learned that the problems of one little singer-songwriter don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. But I think she has also learned that the view from the lofty height, above and apart from everything is ultimately less than satisfying. You can't see a city or a forest or a highway or all of the little details of life that can be the source of endless delight. Running away is not an answer. But neither is being isolated in an ivory tower surrounded by sycophants and people in the 'biz'. As always, she ends up trying to find the right balance. Mark in Seattle where we're having yet another Sunny Sunday. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 18:41:14 -0500 From: Melinda Everett Subject: Re: Furry Sings the Blues zzzzzzzzz .. . . snore .. . . huh?! *yaaawwwwwwnnn* OH? Were you saying something . . . sorry I dozed off there . . . ;-) just kiddin'! :D Not boring 't all! Mark, I'll buy that for a dollar! Actually, I think it's a great synopsis of Hejira! It'd make a great movie, the whole album would, and the soundtrack's already done .. . but we've already been there . . . [Aside: I love thinking of Joni on the Gulf Coast; I'm from there and to think she went to the lil' old town of Lake Jackson, TX is pretty neat!] The only thing I'd add is that running away can be great--certainly it was fruitful for Joni in learning a life lesson. Often what you run to teaches you about what you're running from, maybe? But you can't go on a permanent escape, like Furry or Strange Boy. Or you can, I guess: "Give me one good reason why!" [he should grow up] Melinda in Austin, where we're having a Seattle Sunday (in fact, one of my housemates had this silly idea to draw a picture of the Seattle Space Needle complete with Starbuck's sign a la Austin Powers and tape it to the window with the gray pouring rain in the background then struck a cheesy over-enthused tourist pose, "HI FROM SEATTLE!"--he's a total goofball!) Mark wrote: > Thanks, Melinda. I'm still mulling it all over but basically I see > the line in Coyote 'I tried to run away myself' as the jumping off > point and theme of Hejira. She's reached a state of crisis in her > life and the opportunity appears to run away from it and she goes for > it. Amelia states the various directions she either can run or > already has run. None of them pan out. Then there are two portraits > of people who, in their own way, either have run away or are running > away. Furry by becoming a besotted hermit and the Strange Boy by > refusing to face reality and grow up. Hejira re-examines her own > escape and some of the reasons for it. Song for Sharon is addressed > to an old friend who has chosen a more conventional and settled > lifestyle. Sharon provides a sounding board and a contrast to Joni's > frenetic existence. Black Crow is Joni looking straight in the mirror > and facing her demons, very little intellectualizing, just a visceral > examination of her restless nature. She is the black crow, diving > down to pick up on every shiny thing. But by this time she's getting > tired of running. In Blue Motel Room she's ready to go home and > wondering if there's any chance she can put the relationship that was > falling apart back together and make it succeed. Refuge of the Roads > is the summing up. She has found some solace in her restless moving > around but that thunderhead of judgement tells her that the road is > not an ultimate solution. At least not for her. She has, however, > gained some perspective as she looks at that marbled bowling ball on > the wall of that service station. She has learned that the problems > of one little singer-songwriter don't amount to a hill of beans in > this crazy world. But I think she has also learned that the view from > the lofty height, above and apart from everything is ultimately less > than satisfying. You can't see a city or a forest or a highway or all > of the little details of life that can be the source of endless > delight. Running away is not an answer. But neither is being > isolated in an ivory tower surrounded by sycophants and people in the > 'biz'. As always, she ends up trying to find the right balance. > > Mark in Seattle where we're having yet another Sunny Sunday. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:59:22 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: re: park tribute If there is a God out there....could this PLEASE happen to me one day!!!!!! Ange - (feeling like I'm never even going to come close) Sydney Chris wrote: <> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 20:52:14 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Furry Sings the Blues Mark, attempting to sum up the greatest record ever made in a paragraph, says: <> (Which of course is the definition of "Hejira"...) Great post Mark! I would never have thought the record could be capsulized in such concise and accurate language...now explaing DJRD in 50 words or less! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 20:45:59 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: An old fan! Barbara sez: <> Well Barbara, you've come to the right place! Welcome! The vast majority of us here I would say are long-time fans of Joni's and there are some who worked with her back in her coffeehouse days. So pull up a chair and lend an ear, and you'll hear plenty! Bob, who admittedly wasn't a fan from the start but would've been if he'd heard "Song To A Seagull" when it came out... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 18:36:33 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Furry Sings the Blues Bob challenges with: > Great post Mark! I would never have thought the record could be > capsulized in such concise and accurate language...now explaing > DJRD in 50 words or less! :~) > > Bob And I wimp out with: I was afraid someone would bring up DJRD. I should have known who it would be! ;-) I don't think it can be done, Bob. You can maybe make up a plausible story line but thematically it's all over the map. If you took each of the four original sides separately, however..... Hmm.... I'll have to think on that one for awhile... Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 19:14:42 -0700 From: "Mary August" Subject: Silliness In a message dated: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 07:33:30 EDT >From: WirlyPearl@aol.com Pearl said: >That might even be an interesting thread..to pick a movie and >see what Joni songs should have been in it. > Well, we didn't have many takers on this one, so please forgive my silliness as I attempt once more to ponder the possibilities... Joni sings Titanic: Cold Blue Steel..., I Had a King ("I'M THE KING OF THE WORLD!!!"), Help Me, Lesson In Survival, Don't Interrupt the Sorrow, (and at the end as Leonardo slips into the abyss) Blue Boy. Seriously, though, I do so enjoy the heartfelt offerings of those of you who can so touchingly convey your appreciation of Joni's music. Mary (meca) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:21:13 +1000 From: Nicholas Bates Subject: joni's jazz, dreams and grandchildren All this reporting from joni's jazz has been playing havoc with my psyche. The other night I had the most vivid Joni dream. I could have sworn it was real - just the two of us having an intense conversation following a concert she gave ( a mythical concert since there was no band and no other hangers on). This dream echoes one I had several years ago in which Joni was holidaying in the Blue Mountains near Sydney and I dropped by (as one does) and again we had this intense, cathartic conversation which was so real that waking up was the bitterest dissappointment. Then I read Wally's page and there is a contribution from Chris where he talks about his hour long conversation with Joni where, just as in my dreams, her focus appeared to be just on him. It seems from what people say who have met Joni, especially fans, that when she does turn her light on, she has that rare quality to make you feel as if you are what really matters. In my experience very few people have this quality - they say Clinton and Hilary have it and somebody I know who met both of the Carters, claimed they had it too (Maybe Joni should go into politics!) and I guess we can probably all think of at least one person we know who has it. In some cases maybe its just charm but in others I think its about really be interested in what another person can bring to your life in that moment! As for my dreams, I know they're just projection but when I read accounts of Jone from people other than journalists I feel that we are seeing the Joni that knows so much about us and in a tenuous (but it feels real) is part of us. So often people use the word gracious and what a great word that is because it is a quality that doesn't always come across in her press comments and yet is clearly part of how she is in day to day life. Whether I ever meet Joni is irrelevant (and of course the right setting is one where you don't intrude on her personal life) because I have already met the part that matters to me and that is a relationship best sustained through the music and the words. Oops, this has got into a bit of a rave! Yours, in undying fandom Nicholas in Sydney PS Can we have confirmation that Donald Freed was at the concert. If so they are clearly they are still friends (or more) which is always great. And I agree with whoever said that I hope Joni isn't anonymously out there! Our obsession needs some kind of privacy! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 23:57:32 -0400 From: "Eric G. Postel" Subject: * joni's jazz tape? did anybody tape this? would love to trade for it? thanks, eric ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #114 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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