From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #113 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, July 11 1999 Volume 01 : Number 113 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni's Jazz [Susan Chaloner ] Re: Joni's Jazz [FredNow@aol.com] Re: UK Joni Party? [pyramus ] Re: Barking Mad? [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: Joni's Jazz [Mark Domyancich ] Re:UK Joni party? [Gertus@aol.com] Joni and Tarot Musings [Melinda Everett ] Re: Joni and Tarot Musings [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Joni and Tarot Musings [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Furry Sings the Blues ["Mark or Travis" ] re: Dogs Bark [j.pukkila@pp.inet.fi] Re: UK Joni party? [catman ] Re: UK Joni party? [Jason Maloney ] UK Joni Party ["Hejira" ] RE: Joni and Tarot Musings ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Dogs Bark [RMuRocks@aol.com] Dogs Bark [Michael Paz ] Re: Furry Sings the Blues [Bounced Message ] Tape Tree #3 Available ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 00:04:10 -0700 From: Susan Chaloner Subject: Re: Joni's Jazz Ashara@aol.com wrote: > Oh.....BTW.......I would REALLY, REALLY feel like I was there if someone sent > me a tape of it!! ;-) I bet you would ;~D and so would I darlin'! :~D Susan L.A. Honey McBabe-NP-The sprinklers during water rationing even though we got ten tons of it this year...where's it goin? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 03:28:17 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Jazz 1) Was it recorded? Will it be released? 2) I really wanna hear an entire album of Joni tunes sung by Chaka Khan. - -Fred Simon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 09:49:27 +0100 From: pyramus Subject: Re: UK Joni Party? catman wrote: << I'd be very happy to have people over at my house in March, Cambridgeshire.>> Thanks Colin - count me in. Kevin. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 08:38:44 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Barking Mad? In a message dated 7/9/99 10:40:46 PM Central Daylight Time, durflink@epix.net writes: << Its Joni singing 'The Three Great Stimulants' with just a (borrowed) guitar. It's quite wonderful, but I missed the beginning of the song sinse I didnt have a tape in the player when I turned on the radio and realized she was live on the air.If its not on the tape trees I would like to dig it up and share it with the list. Hope I can find it. >> Lisa, I'm sure this is the recording on her NPR "All Things Considered-Weekend Edition", which can be found on TT#2. It's most excellent! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 10:37:33 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Joni's Jazz Same here! Or, at least offer it up for a tape tree! NP-Boho Dance-HOSL demos At 12:43 AM -0400 7/10/99, Ashara@aol.com wrote: >Oh.....BTW.......I would REALLY, REALLY feel like I was there if someone sent >me a tape of it!! ;-) ____________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | home.revealed.net/Harpua | |__________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 12:52:06 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re:UK Joni party? I'm in deepest Sussex. Please count me in wherever. I can get to London or Oxford in about the same time. Colin's place might take a bit longer, I don't know, but what a generous invitation. Thanks Colin. It would be great to meet some of you people. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 12:31:31 -0500 From: Melinda Everett Subject: Joni and Tarot Musings IX The Crone With her magical number nine, the Crone represents the inner teacher, the silent wisdom that exists within and can be tapped into for guidance. She probably represents solitude, and certainly represents simplicity--making a truthful choice of some kind, choosing a life path in utter seriousness. Priestess Swords Water and air; representing a thinking woman from whom wisdom flows. Traditionally the "widow," she is alone but not necessarily cut off. Like an Amazon, she has clarity and integrity. Hi, Joni lovers! Recently I was giving myself a reading, and it came to me that the heart of what Joni represents and has taught me about can be seen to be embodied in these Tarot cards I've described above. And what's more, she's done it through music that's as beautiful as I can imagine. What an incredible gift! I can really see these themes flowing through her life and music, with the true energy of these cards being harnessed first in Blue, and continuing through HOSL-- honestly, so far this is the period that I'm most familiar with in her music; I hope I do not offend! I also see FTR as being an album in which she herself actually chooses her truth and really clarifies her vision, especially in Woman of Heart and Mind (water and air). Here she says that she's not any other of those female archetypes: the mother, the sister, the queen of your dreams, or the silly girl. No, she's not a projection of anima for anyone, she's much larger than this: she knows her truth and will not be labelled. OH! I respect her so much for following her truth--therein lies such inspiration!!!!!! I hope I'm not just rambling on--please humour me! I'm really not a flake; it's just that the psychospiritual dimension of Joni has always been the most salient and meaningful to me! There's so much that could be said here, and I'm so bad sometimes at articulating what I'd like to say. And that's another reason I love Joni--she's a touchstone for articulating musically and lyrically these inner processes. This is your life in music! Any tarot readers in JMDL land? Blessed be, Melinda ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Birds make great sky circles of their freedom. How do they learn it? The fall, and falling, they're given wings. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Rumi~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 13:54:43 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and Tarot Musings In a message dated 7/10/99 1:27:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, melindae@mail.utexas.edu writes: > I hope I'm not just rambling on--please humour me! I'm really not a > flake; it's just that the psychospiritual dimension of Joni has always > been the most salient and meaningful to me! There's so much that could > be said here, and I'm so bad sometimes at articulating what I'd like to > say. And that's another reason I love Joni--she's a touchstone for > articulating musically and lyrically these inner processes. This is > your life in music! > > Any tarot readers in JMDL land? I'm not a tarot reader but I really enjoyed your post. Particularly this part: >I also see FTR >as being an album in which she herself actually chooses her truth and >really clarifies her vision, especially in Woman of Heart and Mind >(water and air). Here she says that she's not any other of those female >archetypes: the mother, the sister, the queen of your dreams, or the >silly girl. No, she's not a projection of anima for anyone, she's much >larger than this: she knows her truth and will not be labelled. If this is how you see it, then I think your cards are right on! This is one of my favorite Joni songs ever. Thanks for sharing this. Take care, Gina NP: The Man In The Moon - The Acoustic Adrian Belew ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 13:18:17 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Joni and Tarot Musings I got one of those basic tarot decks awhile back. It was interesting for a while but it took too long to figure everything out in a 10 card spread. At 12:31 PM -0500 7/10/99, Melinda Everett wrote: >Any tarot readers in JMDL land? NPIMH-Sweet Bird ____________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | home.revealed.net/Harpua | |__________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 11:19:06 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Furry Sings the Blues my friend Mr. Dulson sez: > Well, yes, but in that last verse she does let us know what she's > doing there, her point of view, her role in the story. I always > think of "Furry" as "Son of For Free", Joni contrasting her fame > and affluence with under-appreciated musicians who might be just > as good, if not better, than her. And I speculate: I agree with Steve that Furry relates to the same theme as 'For Free' - that of Joni's ambiguity about her fame. But I think Furry is the flip side of 'For Free'. In 'For Free' Joni obviously admires the clarinetist playing on the street corner and is feeling twinges of guilt at her own good fortune. In 'Furry' she is making another stop in her spiritual quest (or Hejira), maybe wondering if she'll get some enlightenment from this old blues artist. Maybe he's found some key to happiness and fulfillment in his relative obscurity. Maybe she could chuck the whole 'star-maker machinery' and live a simpler life like that guy she saw on that street corner playing that clarinet few years back. Instead she finds a down & out, bitter old man living in a dying neighborhood. The era when Furry was in his prime is long gone. Nothing but ghosts remain from that time on Beale Street. It's just one more incident that tells her she can't run away from who and what she is. One more false alarm, if you will. Ultimately she has to go back and continue being the creative innovator that she is. It's a tough job, but somebody's got to do it and by God, Joni's just the one! There are many themes that recur in Joni's lyrics. Since I've been on this list I'm beginning to see threads that are specific to each album. I've already speculated about HOSL & Court & Spark. After all I've had 20 some years to think about most of these songs! I've got some ideas about Hejira running around my head. But I guess Hejira's kind of obvious so I won't bore you with it now. Later, Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 13:50:46 -0500 From: Diana Duncan Subject: Re: blue Out of Lurkdom, I have to say "me too" on this. However, Joni's current direction doesn't seem to take her toward any piano composing or performing. I imagine that for her next album she may just sing and have orchestra backing...? Maybe in the years ahead she will rediscover the piano. It could happen! Diana Michele wrote: >listened to Blue. "My Old Man" and the sweet chords of her piano resounded >right down to my soul. I miss the piano from Joni's menu. I still love the >menu, but GOD that piano sounded good. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 20:51:04 +0300 From: j.pukkila@pp.inet.fi Subject: re: Dogs Bark Michael Paz wrote: > I bought Dog Eat Dog on CD again cause my copy must have grown > feet and > split. While I love certain songs on here like Three Great Stimulants > and Ethiopia. This album has always disturbed me from the perspective > of > her guitar playing. It is non existent. She is not even credited as a > guitar player (not that Landau is a slouch I love him, but it is > sorely > lacking here playing) and I wonder why she doesn't play o this record. > A > few of the piano tracks on the record sound like her, but for the most > part it sounds like she is a side man on her own project. Could this > have been the EVIL Thomas Dolby's influence or her lack of drive for > the > project. I'd have to say this record comes in dead last on my list > (which means nothing cause seeing how I bought it again, I will > probably > listen to it more and discover something wonderful). I found myself last week defending DED on the Julia Fordham list. I found it annoying that someone, out of the blue, brought up DED as an album not to buy by Joni, without explaining the statement any further. Especially as I like the album a lot. On that list, Joni only gets a mention every now and then and I felt that was so unfair. I'm sure this subject has been explored here much deeper in the past, but I don't find the absence of Joni's traditional playing at all disturbing on DED. The album is certainly a product of its time, but in a rather good way. I've never associated it with other pompous-sounding 80's polished products. To me, the core of what Joni is about (if I ever find out what the heck that is) is all there. I don't remember what kind of comments Joni has made about the album, but I doubt very much she would have proceeded with the project if she felt uneasy about it. I can easily understand why DED is the least favourite in Joni's output by many people - looking at the issue from the other end. Being a person essentially brought up in the 80's materialistic atmosphere, maybe I'm able to dismiss the surface gloss in DED more easily? In fact I've found it hard to associate with "Clouds" and that era in general. Knowing that it's held the most precious by many JMDL'ers, I've had to force myself to drop many of my preconceptions about those albums. I have literally sat down and forced myself to listen to Clouds, FTR and Ladies. I can't claim that I listen to those albums often these days, but I can certainly appreciate them more now. With STAS and Blue I've had no "trouble". :-) "Mingus" is perhaps Joni's nod to jazz and in the same vein, DED is to mainstream pop - or whatever the mid-80's heavily-produced sound should be called. Is that less worthy? I've never felt Joni was forced to do DED the way she did. In that respect, mocking DED is mocking Joni and her artistic values. Now how does that sound, DED-haters? ;-) I wouldn't dream of openly mocking Clouds or FTR on the list, as I'm convinced that it's simply me that is unable to really get the brilliance of these records. I can certainly listen to these albums very happily, but I know I'm still not quite getting the effect full-force, like I know other people do. I don't have the cultural references to compare it to and the view of the world of that time to place it to. So, when people mock DED like it's the accepted thing to do, I almost feel offended myself. WildTRF was already very mainstream. I feel there's a greater contrast between Mingus and WTRF than between WTRF and DED. DED is more like a protest album. I feel there's a very exciting contrast between the critical lyrics and the polished, synthesized sound. To me, it works like magic. I almost wish Joni would use an outside producer today. As exciting as it is to hear her new songs, I must admit TTT was a small disappoinment to me. Most of the tracks sounded alike to me, like she had done them all in one day's session. I am sure this is all a matter of individual preferences. That's perhaps why I've found the "Garden" tribute album so exciting. Admittedly, some of the tracks raise the hair on my neck, but more than that, I've surprised myself of discovering some great Joni songs, which I've previously just let go without much thought. For examply, I've always liked Joni's "River", but the performance on the tribute tape opened my eyes. "River" is like the ultimate Christmas Song - - for people who've had enough of the reindeer crap. Also, the version of "Banquet" on the Refuge video caught my attention. I love the 'rock group' approach. And what Joni does herself performing the old tracks live today. All that makes me think it's more the approach in the recording that we tend to base our opinion on - rather than the composition itself. If the listener is able to get beyond that is an achievement. - --jussi ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:39:44 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: UK Joni party? Kevin is willing to come to my place, maybe Jacky. March is easy to get to by road. A1 from north or south. and by train or coach. From London either A1 or M11 dependiong on which end. When we've heard from enough people perhaps we can then agree a date. Assuming enough peeps think my place is okay. Gertus@aol.com wrote: > I'm in deepest Sussex. Please count me in wherever. I can get to London or > Oxford in about the same time. Colin's place might take a bit longer, I > don't know, but what a generous invitation. Thanks Colin. It would be great > to meet some of you people. > Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 22:07:38 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: UK Joni party? catman wrote: > > Kevin is willing to come to my place, maybe Jacky. March is easy to get to by > road. A1 from north or south. and by train or coach. From London either A1 or > M11 dependiong on which end. > When we've heard from enough people perhaps we can then agree a date. > Assuming enough peeps think my place is okay. I'll sit and work out the journey, I see if I may be able to join in the fun. Not sure if it's just that bit too far (or not). So, for the moment, count me in also. Oxford or London would be fine, as well. I agree, that this is a very kind gesture from you Colin. Thanks! :-) Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 23:14:14 +0100 From: "Hejira" Subject: UK Joni Party Krys and I meet up at Glastonbury every year for a Kate Bush bash .This year we all meet up 2 pm the top of Glastonbury tor Why not joni OOOPS i MEAN JOIN us?? All the Best Kevin (HEJIRA28@MSN.COM) PS Thanks for the tape Jacky I'll be in touch soon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 20:41:30 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Joni and Tarot Musings >Any tarot readers in JMDL land? > >Melinda Here's one! WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 00:00:13 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Dogs Bark In a message dated 7/10/99 2:15:37 PM Central Daylight Time, j.pukkila@pp.inet.fi writes: << I've never felt Joni was forced to do DED the way she did.>> Nor do I, but I do feel like she fell prey to some bad advice... <> But then you go on to say... <> So by your definition you're "mocking TTT" because you're disappointed with the production values (I believe that's what we "DED-Haters" have said about THAT release)...you say you wouldn't do that to Clouds or FTR but have no problem with TTT - kind of strange I think...is that because no one really professes to placing TTT at the top of their "favorite" list? For the record, I'm not a DED hater...I think the songs (the ones Joni wrote anyway) are among her best, Ethiopia particularly. Hearing the songs unplugged proves that out! Bob, (incidentally not a tarot card reader but a mean Hearts & Bridge player...) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 01:12:13 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Dogs Bark Jussi wrote: "I can easily understand why DED is the least favourite in Joni's output by many people - looking at the issue from the other end." I was gonna write that I really hated DJRD for the longest time, but now I like it. That's the wonderful thing about her music. I find things that touch ME in all of it and it hits very close to home. I was just too much of a puppy when that record came out. I still had alot of bones to bury (so to speak" before I could warm up to that record. I have a feeling I will go thru the 80's later on in life. I just can't get enough of those "savage seventies" for now. more jussi: "I wouldn't dream of openly mocking Clouds or FTR on the list, as I'm convinced that it's simply me that is unable to really get the brilliance of these records. I can certainly listen to these albums very happily," I try not to ever mock any of Joni's records, but I usually do share my honest feelings about things. Sorry if I offended anyone (especially Don and all other DED fans). Jussi cont.: "WildTRF was already very mainstream. As exciting as it is to hear her new songs, I must admit TTT was a small disappointment to me. Most of the tracks sounded alike to me, like she had done them all in one day's session." I liked 90 % of WTRF right off the bat and the same with TTT. I was dating my wife when WTRF came out and we went to see her in Baton Rouge. She got tickets right in front of the mixing console dead center and was worried that I wouldn't be happy with the seats (they were bloody brilliant seeing how now we normally stand behind the console). That night she played Banquet (the Led Zep version with Landau on guitar) and I remember she really screwed up Help Me and had to start over. I remember being so glad she was actually human. TTT has hit home quicker I guess cause the songs all hit home for me in one way or another except maybe No Apologies which is a great tune, but not one of my faves for now. "Also, the version of "Banquet" on the Refuge video caught my attention. I love the 'rock group' approach. And what Joni does herself performing the old tracks live today. All that makes me think it's more the approach in the recording that we tend to base our opinion on - rather than the composition itself. If the listener is able to get beyond that is an achievement." I love hearing different versions of anything. I really like to hear demos of something (like the Beatles outtakes are wonderful) and see how the songs grow. Then it's always fun to recreate them a different way years later. I am one of the ones who wish she would return to the piano, but I am content as long as she continues no matter what she plays. Michael (looking forward to the standards and beyond) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 00:19:47 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: Furry Sings the Blues Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 13:54:45 -0500 From: Melinda Everett Mark in Seattle sed: > I agree with Steve that Furry relates to the same theme as 'For > Free' - that of Joni's ambiguity about her fame. But I think Furry is > the flip side of 'For Free'. In 'For Free' Joni obviously admires the > clarinetist playing on the street corner and is feeling twinges of > guilt at her own good fortune. In 'Furry' she is making another stop > in her spiritual quest (or Hejira), maybe wondering if she'll get some > enlightenment from this old blues artist. > Very interesting comparison, this between For Free and Furry--nice alliteration, too ;-)! There's a nice juxtaposition/limbo that Joni's in. In For Free, she's a few steps ahead of the clarinetist on the street corner, and is exploring the nature of this difference. And in Furry, to me she is seeing an Elder, an experienced, weathered musician. She looks up to both, but also moves on after gleaning what is meaningful to her. And, Furry reminds me of another "Mean Old Daddy" :D > Instead she finds a down & out, bitter old man living in > a dying neighborhood. The era when Furry was in his prime is long > gone. Nothing but ghosts remain from that time on Beale Street. > What a scary experience this must have been--I can imagine it as Joni seeing one possibility for her own future. Not one to embrace, either! Damn right she's out of there and on with it! > After all I've had 20 some years to think about most of these songs! > I've got > some ideas about Hejira running around my head. But I guess Hejira's > kind of obvious so I won't bore you with it now. > > Later, > Mark in Seattle Mark, bore away! (in private if you wish) Melinda ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 02:28:13 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Tape Tree #3 Available Tape Tree #3 offers a retrospective of the early years of Joan's career between 1966 and 1968, originally broadcast in Philedelphia, Pennsylvannia, USA. It also includes a live performance at a place called the 2nd Fret, also in Philedelphia on October 1967. Finally, the third tape has 2 discussions with Joan. In 1988, to announce the new album called "Chalk Mark In A Rainstorm", and in 1995 in an interview with Todd Rungren. This tape tree acts as an excellent introduction to the tape trees in general, Joni's early years, and the later stuff. If you have web access, you can read more at: http://jmdl.com/trading/ If you don't, I'll send you the contents via email. Just ask off list.... No one makes money on tape trees. You send in blank cassettes with return stamps and I record onto them and drop them into the mail box. Other tape tree issues are usually available if you ask politely on the list. Remember- no one gets paid so be nice! - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** Tolerance, tolerance, tol... ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #113 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?