From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #110 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Friday, July 9 1999 Volume 01 : Number 110 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- UK Joni party? [Krys ] Re: Camels? (SJC) ["Lisa Peakes" ] Re: STAS - vinyl variations [j.pukkila@pp.inet.fi] Re: STAS - vinyl variations [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Joni's Jazz [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com] Re: Newbie [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com] Re: Rolling Stone "Worst" Quote [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.c] Two Cavett Appearances [James Leahy ] Re: Furry Sings the Blues [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Stormy Weather request [TheHotelNH@aol.com] Re: Furry Sings the Blues (long) [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.] Fundraiser Update/Jonifest [Ashara@aol.com] Joni, Amelia, Furry, Ondar & Joan [JaneneO@mji.com] Re: Furry Sings the Blues (long) [Marian Russell ] Joni Mitchelle Fawning [Ladygrammy@aol.com] Oh Canada 2000 [michael paz ] Those engraved numbers on records [Martin Giles ] Re: STAS - vinyl variations [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: STAS - vinyl variations ["Kakki" ] Re: Joni Mitchelle Fawning ["Kakki" ] Re: Joni Mitchell Fawning [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com] FW: Furry Sings the Blues ["patrick leader" ] Closure? [Steve Dulson ] [Fwd: Those engraved numbers on records] [Randy Remote ] Re: HaHaHa [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Toronto, Central Park, Names [Bounced Message ] Re: Amelia ["Jennifer L. Nodine" ] [Fwd: Re: Amelia] ["Jennifer L. Nodine" ] Re: Amelia ["Jennifer L. Nodine" ] Joni are you out there? ["Jennifer L. Nodine" ] Re: [Fwd: Re: Amelia] [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Those engraved numbers on records [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Joni are you out there? [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Furry Sings, Dogs Bark, & Joan The Bitch [Michael Paz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:06:13 +0100 From: Krys Subject: UK Joni party? This is for everyone out there in the UK who'd be interested in the Joni get together. As a fairly new person to the list, I have no idea how many of us there are here in the UK. A few digests ago, someone (I apologise as I can't recall who it was) mentioned the possibility of a UK get together of Joni fans, and I know I'm really interested because I'm a bit isolated as a Joni fan. My partner, bless him, just can't see her appeal. I just wondered, if this came to fruition, where it might be held? Somewhere central (Woodstock near Oxford maybe!), or at a site suitable for all us Joni fans (Glastonbury maybe? They have the superb Assembly Rooms for hire which might fit the bill, if it's to be more than a few people). Maybe things are getting a bit late for arranging a Jonifest this Summer, but I for one would love to help out to make this a reality. I am far from being the most knowledgeable or long-standing Joni fan, but her music means so much to me and I am sure it would be wonderful for a bunch of us to get together and, who knows, develop some good friendships as well as have fun! If I'm treading on the toes of anyone who might be currently working away on this behind the scenes, I apologise unreservedly. But I just can't get the idea out of my head, that's all. Thanks for the bandwidth. Love and peace, Krys XXX ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 04:50:14 -0400 From: "Lisa Peakes" Subject: Re: Camels? (SJC) <> But which ones? There's a lovely tourquoise-colored pack - they seem pretty robust - there's a light sage- colored pack (lights?) - a sunny yellow-colored pack (medium?) - a coffee-with-milk-colored pack (??non-filtered?) I'll bet Joni smokes the blues - but Angela may want to coordinate pack color with her stunning Joni outfit? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 02:35:15 +0300 From: j.pukkila@pp.inet.fi Subject: Re: STAS - vinyl variations Kakki wrote: > I just checked my two STAS vinyls and they are both stereo. However, > long > ago I posted about finding a mint condition one in a used record store > that > sounded incredibly better than usual (and the improvement seems to be > attributable to more than it just being a mint copy). I recall the > threads > and David Crosby's comments about how the original engineer passed > away and > the master got wrecked and how there is distortion in the album that's > not > supposed to be there, etc. (I always thought it was supposed to sound > that > way until I read the story). I am curious if you or anyone else has > any > obscure information regarding the pressings. > > The one I originally bought in the 60s has the following exactly > engraved in > the run-out: > > (Side One) 30753RS629A - 1H and (Side Two) 30754RS6293B - 1G > > The mint one that sounds so incredible has the following: > > (Side One) RS6293 30754-4 and (Side Two) T BS6293(30753)-3 > > I know this is kind of nerdy but I would really appreciate any more > information if anyone knows. And I'm just the nerd to reply! (Side One) 30753RS629A - 1H and (Side Two) 30754RS6293B - 1G (Side One) RS6293 30754-4 and (Side Two) T BS6293(30753)-3 Are you sure the codes aren't vice versa with the latter record? That would seem more logical - 30753 on both A sides and 30754 on both B sides. "I Came To The City" & "Down To The Seaside" - which one comes first (I had to check). Other than that, it's hard to say anything by the codes without actually seeing the engravings. For your 'mint' copy of the album, it would most logically have to be from a totally different pressing to sound markedly different. In that case there are perhaps also other small details different to the 'usual' copy - slight differences in the print quality of the sleeve, the labels, etc. The reissue vinyls that I have, have the grooves much closer to each other (narrower tracks) and much more of the empty runout space compared to the originals. If the 'better' copy was made when the tapes were still 'fresh', it would have to be older and also look "older". It's hard to describe these things in writing, but you will know what I'm trying to say if you have an original 68 STAS and an 80's reissue side by side - they look very different. Knowing that the original STAS tapes did in fact deteriorate at some point, it's very likely that the last reissues sounded worse than the originals, taking account the improved mastering techniques. The earliest issues were probably pressed with virgin vinyl (instead of recycled) - further improving the sound. If the copy you found in mint condition originates from the early issues, it is not at all surprising that you can hear a difference in the sound. Does that make any sense? In my head I know what I mean but it came out a bit weird. Anyway, taking this issue a bit further, does anyone know if the regular/original/80's CD release of STAS suffer from this deterioration and if it's been corrected with the HDCD release? - --jussi np: Alice - Viaggiatrice solitaria ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 07:57:07 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: STAS - vinyl variations >> Very interesting Kakki! I have the same record of your mint one. It has the exact same number on it. HOWEVER, I also have a Japanese Import that I bought in 1977 with this number on it.... side 1 P-8099R1 side 2 P-8099R2 Interestly enough when I look at both records side by side, the colors are much more vibrant on the Jap pressing then on the American.<<<< Sounds like you guys have looked at the albums from both sides now. marcel. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 07:36:00 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Joni's Jazz Frances' introduction includes: <> Or as Joni would say..."I was runnin' like a white-ass deer,oh, radiant happiness, it was all so light & easy...." A hearty welcome to you Frances! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 07:40:19 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Newbie Janene says: <> Welcome Janene! You probably felt like most of us; that is, we never had a forum for discussion of Joni's music with others who "get it", so all you get is the rolling eyes...but not here, so talk away, like chicken squawkin', buk buk buk BUK! Bob, who also is a blabbermouth - my motto "Speak first, think later!" :~D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 07:45:59 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Rolling Stone "Worst" Quote Steve the garage historian relates: <> Steve, thanks for the definitive word on that, which I STILL don't understand. "HOSL" is imo one of more BRILLIANT album titles ever conceived, particularly given the record's subject matter...I must have a higher "disgust" tolerance as I'm giving RS up this year! :~D And btw, I saw where an old Joni-cover RS was for sale on www.GEMM, you might take a look and see what the price is, I forget because I wasn't interested...I'm already afraid my house is going to cave in with all the "Southern Living" magazines my wife holds onto! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 08:31:21 -0500 From: James Leahy Subject: Two Cavett Appearances The Dick Cavett Show appearance I was referring to was broadcast around the time of the release of STAS, around June 1968. She sang That Song About the Midway (if memory serves) and perhaps another song. This would make two appearances by Joni on the Cavett show. Just wondering if anyone else can confirm this earlier appearance. Jim NP: The Very Best of Dusty Springfield ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 08:29:41 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Furry Sings the Blues Of course I could be wrong BUT: Since I first listened to this song I have had two takes. The first is that Joni is again masterfully painting a musical masterpiece. Sketching images left and right. I can almost feel myself walking up a decrepit staricase in a dumpy neighborhood and going into a stinky humid apartment to visit a wretched old codger who is irrascible and thouroughly contemptuous of any and all visitors and at the same time desperately grasping in total insolence a reputation spawned in decades past and forever lived upon living out his days in unrequitted bitterness. Arrogantly expecting total unconditional deification from any and all who dare to invade his turgid space and one who is still worshiped by the only woman who will put up with his daily diatribes and self centered existence. He deserves to be left alone to rot but because of his past still has someone who loves him enough to put up with him. The second is that Joni the artist actually did this and the sceen she describes is probably what she actually experienced. She probably (one day) with no small amount of effort and inconvenience decided to actually go visit this blues-god only to find him to be the murky old bastard who couldnt have cared less that she had gone to all the trouble to pay him a visit. This visit actually may have given Joni a peek into what SHE could become if she let her worst artist as self centered goddess get the better of her. She did two things. She created this powerful song filled with Steinbeck-like images and impressions out of this experience and she unloaded from her mind any doubts as to which would be the better alternative path for her as an artist to follow. The spirit said "Hey girly do you want to end up a bitter old bag in saskatoon still living off your reputation and "hit" from thirty years ago or do you want to continue to create maybe better art than you ever have and retouch your past, rebond with your life and produce another great work", and so Hejira was born. Thats my take. Marcel deste. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 08:37:24 EDT From: TheHotelNH@aol.com Subject: Re: Stormy Weather request Hi everyone. Randy mentioned here that he knows someone with a batch of the Stormy Weather cds. Are there any left? I'd like to get a copy, so if Randy or anyone has a few left that they could sell, please let us know. Thanks, Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 08:42:49 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Furry Sings the Blues (long) David commented: << Maybe the other songs on the album show up these relatively minor weaknesses of "Furry" more than it really deserves.>> By now, everyone else has said everything I would have said about FSTB, especially Steve pointing out that it's a song about Contrasts...I would add that additional contrasts would be Young's plaintive harmonica interspersed with the softer melodic sound of the acoustic guitar. Live, Joni contrasts her crystalline vocal with the gravelly bluesman when she sings in Furry's voice. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:33:27 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Fundraiser Update/Jonifest Newest results on the fundraiser: 53 listers have raised $1,863.99 so far for Wally!!! YAY!!!!! This represents almost 10% of the list! Please remember, it is the participation that I am looking for, not how much you can afford to send. If you would like to participate in thsi fundraiser, please send your donation in *any* amount to: Ashara Stansfield (but please make the check out to Wally Breese) P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA 01983 THANK YOU ALL for your participation!!!!!!! There have been lots more raffle items such as a Joni mousepad, posters, and CD's galore! (Raffle items can also be sent to the above address.) I have noticed there have been a lot of inquiries for the Labor Day information from people that I have not heard from yet. I'm just wondering....are any of you mysterious inquirers interested in joining us for the most wonderful get-together EVER?? If so, please let me know as soon as you can, so we can make plans! You DO NOT want to miss out on this one!! These are the names I have so far of people attending. Please let me know if your name does NOT appear here, and you are planning on attending, OR if your name DOES appear here, and you have no intention of appearing anywhere near Boston in September. It is important to let me know right away, as we are starting to work on badges, and food plans. THANKS!! Ashara (Ashara@aol.com Les (les@jmdl.com) Marian (m.russell@iaea.org) MG (MGVal@aol.com) Jody Johnson (johnsonjs@earthlink.net) Wally K. (wallykai@interserver.com.ar) Bev, and her husband Rick (thefishpond@prodigy.net) Patrick (trxschwa@bway.net) Michael (michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net) Catgirl and her husband, Eric (CaTGirl627@aol.com) Pearl, and her husband, Steve (WirlyPearl@aol.com) Kakki (kakkib@att.net) Bernard (Bern44105@aol.com) Roberto (rhollis@islandnet.com) Lori (lrfye@aol.com) Chuck E. (chucke@tiac.net) Davina (davinagr@aol.com) Brian Gross (briangross@rocketmail.com) Kenny Grant (kg@ibm.net) Katie and her husband..? (kbarnicle@ensr.com) Maggie (mm@celebrityseries.org) John van Tiel (john.van.tiel@wxs.nl) Ric (rickielee1@aol.com) Laura Mann (mann@chicagonet.net) Heather (luvart@snet.net) Bob (Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com) Julie (jzw@visint.com) Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:39:04 -0400 From: JaneneO@mji.com Subject: Joni, Amelia, Furry, Ondar & Joan I appreciate the "Amelia" thread. I never really delved that deep into the lyrics to that one before. I think the arrangement could've complimented the story better if it wasn't so repetitive. In reference to "Furry..", I always got such a kick every time I listened to this and I also have always respected Joni for never making up some lame excuses to "defend" the struggle one has when being compared and contrasted to characters in her songs. That's why artists are such risk-takers. To make something personal public, auto-biographical in nature or not, is a leap of faith in many ways. Everyone's a critic, you know? On the cigarettes: American Spirit for sure. I remember at the Day In The Garden Concert, Joni was puffing away the whole set and I even have a very clear picture of Joni next to the stool that was placed on stage, on which lay the pack of ciggs. I also have a pretty cool shot of Joni "chillin' out" smoking a butt with a cup in her hand, about to take a sip. It's a very casual, on-stage moment. I really like that picture. To digress for just a moment, I went to see Bela Fleck and the Flecktones last month and Bela brought out a special guest. He was Ondar, a "throat singer"/musician from Tuva and I was thrilled. I have tapes of harmonic chanting but never saw anyone perform it live. Wild, just wild! On the Joan Jett topic, I'm pretty sure she's living in or around NYC because Joan and the Blackhearts rehearse at the studio where I rehearse and if you go to www.joanjett.com, there is more than enough info. to tell you where she is now. If you don't want to go that far and are just curious, she has an album that came out in April and still tours quite a bit. She also did a USO tour to help support troops in Yugoslavia. Thanks for writing and thanks for reading. Janene ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 16:31:44 +0200 From: Marian Russell Subject: Re: Furry Sings the Blues (long) On Wed, 7 Jul 1999 01:10:57 EDT wrote: > Listening to _Hejira_ on Sunday night > while driving down the highway, watching > the fireworks in the distance over > Denver, I got to pondering why I have > never liked "Furry Sings the Blues" as > much as the other songs on the album: > why it doesn't completely work for me... I also have never much cared for Furry Sings The Blues, but never thought too much about exactly why, so your analysis was interesting. It ought to be a good song, but somehow it doesn't work and maybe it's mostly the last thing you said: > ...Maybe the other songs on the album > show up these relatively minor weaknesses > of "Furry" more than it really deserves. In the last year, when revisiting the album Shadows And Light in an attempt to find it as enjoyable as I find the other albums, I was amazed at how beautiful Furry Sings The Blues is on that album. In fact, I have to say it is my favorite song on SAL. Do you also not like the SAL version? Is it the song that you don't like, or maybe just that particular recording (on Hejira) of it? Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:37:04 EDT From: Ladygrammy@aol.com Subject: Joni Mitchelle Fawning Hi, Just wanted to introduce myself. I am a 48 year old woman who is a songwriter, singer, producer. I have been a serious musician since the age of 4. I was always a classical musician until I was turned onto Joni Mitchell. It was then that I realized that I could write music. I owe my entire writing and producing career to Joni. I have followed her career and know almost every song that she has ever written. There are many artists in L.A. who also owe their recording careers to Joni since when I write and produce I have the highest standards to uphold. I am so happy that I found this group. Jan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 07:39:54 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: Oh Canada 2000 Sign ne up as definitly interested in a Joni Fest in Canada in time for the art showing. I would also be interested in the bus tour thing (even thought I would probably be asked to sit in the back). Michael (Still looking for video and audio of the Tribute) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 18:53:59 +0100 From: Martin Giles Subject: Those engraved numbers on records Catgirl asked... They are called catalogue of matrix numbers, and should relate to the numbers on the spine of the sleeve, etc. They are defined by the record companies to identify every release in their catalogue. When the master discs for a record are cut, the mastering engineer usually engraves or stamps the number into the space in the 'run-out'. This identifies the disc when it goes into manufacture before the labels are attached. When a record is re-released or released in a different country etc, it is quite common for a new cut to be made from (hopefully) the original production master tape. It will be the same record, but will have a new catalogue number reflecting the new record company or whatever. Sometimes for whatever reason, the Production Master Tape is not supplied to the new cut, perhaps only a dodgy copy could be found or something (believe me, it happens) - and a cut from a different tape may well sound quite different from the original. Also the quality of the subsequent manufacturing can have a huge effect on the quality of the sound. There you go. Bet you wished you hadn't asked now! ;-) Martin. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 13:16:56 -0500 From: "Mark Domyancich" Subject: Re: STAS - vinyl variations The one I received from a fellow list member is a stereo one, with 30753 RS6293A-IL on side 1 and 30754 RS6293B-1AA on side 2. ____________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | home.revealed.net/Harpua | |__________________________| - ---------- >From: j.pukkila@pp.inet.fi >To: kakkib@att.net, joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: STAS - vinyl variations >Date: Wed, Jul 7, 1999, 6:35 PM > (Side One) 30753RS629A - 1H and (Side Two) 30754RS6293B - 1G > (Side One) RS6293 30754-4 and (Side Two) T BS6293(30753)-3 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:57:20 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: STAS - vinyl variations In a message dated 7/8/1999 1:53:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sp@olympus.net writes: << Hey Catgirl, I'm sure you didn't intend to issue a racial slur but to many Japanese (and others) the word "Jap" is a derogatory label, very much akin to "spic" or "kike" or any number of other terms. Scott >> EXCUSE me for abbreviating! I did write out the entire word in the beginning and then abbreviated in later. No offense on anyone I just shortened it. I will say that growing up we all called them jap imports. It was the slang that I do beleive most used when referring to an import from JAPAN not necessary the PEOPLE! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:49:00 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: STAS - vinyl variations Jussi and all - thanks for all the additional information. Jussi wrote: > And I'm just the nerd to reply! > > (Side One) 30753RS629A - 1H and (Side Two) 30754RS6293B - 1G > (Side One) RS6293 30754-4 and (Side Two) T BS6293(30753)-3 > > Are you sure the codes aren't vice versa with the latter record? That > would seem more logical - 30753 on both A sides and 30754 on both B > sides. "I Came To The City" & "Down To The Seaside" - which one comes > first (I had to check). Other than that, it's hard to say anything by > the codes without actually seeing the engravings. Yes, I accidently reversed the sides in my post! Too much eyestrain peering at those numbers - I need a monocle! I have learned some more information. My "mint" copy was re-issued in 1974. Maybe it was "early" enough to have still used the best master but "later" enough to have benefited by improvements in technology. Also, I can confirm that the STAS album was released in both mono and stereo. > Does that make any sense? In my head I know what I mean but it came out > a bit weird. It made sense to me. ;-) >Anyway, taking this issue a bit further, does anyone know > if the regular/original/80's CD release of STAS suffer from this > deterioration and if it's been corrected with the HDCD release? I do not have the HDCD but recall some people on the list saying that there was not much improvement. Note to Mark D. - I think the STAS you have is an early, if not original issue. This discussion is now making me want to go root through used record stores to check for the earliest, "virgin" issues and will probably take me off on yet another Joni research tangent ;-) The age/year of issue or re-issue can also often be discerned by the type of label on the album. Another real basic and unscientific method is just to feel the weight of the vinyl: heavier = older. Kakki NP: Joni - Snakes and Ladders ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 13:17:17 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni Mitchelle Fawning Welcome to the list Jan! Your e-mail address has me intrigued - are you a Grammy recipient? > It was then that I realized that I could write music. I owe my entire writing > and producing career to Joni. I have followed her career and know almost > every song that she has ever written. I'm from L.A., too, and used to dabble in songwriting. I always had this fantasy of the people I would thank if I was standing up there accepting a Grammy ;-) I don't owe it all to Joni but she would definitely be most prominent on the short list! > There are many artists in L.A. who also owe their recording careers to Joni > since when I write and produce I have the highest standards to uphold. I would love to see the numbers of how many people have been inspired and influenced by her - I'm sure it would be countless. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 17:00:02 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell Fawning Jan rides in on the newbie wave and says: <> Welcome Jan! We're glad you found us too! It sounds like you've got some pretty serious credentials; have you written/produced stuff we would know? You say you know almost every song she's ever written, does that include all the early tunes she wrote but never recorded commercially? If so, do you have those songs on ANY kind of recording? That would be a find! Bob in South Carolina, who's never been much of a serious anything.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 18:50:10 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: FW: Furry Sings the Blues for some reason this didn't get through. resending To: Steve Dulson; joni@smoe.org Cc: david wright at home Subject: RE: Furry Sings the Blues hey david, i'm glad you started a discussion about this song, which i love dearly. i think joni's point of view is very clear, as steve has described it, somewhat embarrassed to be a rich white woman presuming to judge this blues legend, and yet judging anyway, weighing the beauty and the imperfection. steve wrote: >I always >think of "Furry" as "Son of For Free", Joni contrasting her fame >and affluence with under-appreciated musicians an excellent insight, and this theme does run through her music and words. in an earlier discussion of 'the boho dance', i believe it was suggested that she was mocking the hypocrisy of the stance (as the book does). i don't think so, i think she's just saying that the costume never fit her. not condemning others, just observing herself. 'but even on the scuffle, the cleaners crease was in my jeans'. sometime between hissing and night ride home, she spoke about the difficulty of writing to connect with a large audience because of her affluence. 'i'm a wealthy la homeowner, etc." i wish i could dig up the quote. i think in the context of 'hejira' which is awfully universal, it was brave to point out, 'i am different from you' and brilliant to weave it into the context of 'furry'. about the music: david: >>And I think that there's an odd tension or instability between the >>music, which is relatively down-tempo and loose and with a slow harmonic >>rhythm (i.e., less frequent chord changes), and this rapid-fire lyric >>overload, with its barrage of images, that for me doesn't work; >it's like the >>lyrics and music are pulling in two different directions. then steve>I think the tension is deliberate. i agree with steve on this, too. also, i think the contrast between slow harmonic rhythm and rapid-fire lyric overload is a good working definition of the whole album, more than any she's ever done and i think for many, appreciation for hejira is proportional to appreciation for that method of song construction. you wrote >the music (the chord changes) is dense, too, though in a different way from the lyrics - -- kind of murky. Some of the chord changes in the other songs, by contrast, each sound fresh and clear and give the song direction -- 'amelia' where every chord change has a kind of wonder for me that is just practically luminous. well, i think there's a subjective taste here, i know more than one jmdler who finds amelia boring (not that i do, but it is very sparse). personally, i find the chord changes on refuge and song for sharon to be, oh, i don't know, murky, less than perfect. refuge sounds too obviously like the last song on an album, and not in the best sense. and song for sharon just suffers for coming after hejira, where each interval has a wonder that still puts me in a trance, after all these years. i like refuge and sharon; they maintain the unbelievable standard of wordsmithing on that album but the music leaves me a little cold. patrick, heading out to catch a bite than expecting to come back for a listen to hejira (except, i have to finish a tape for a jmdler!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:05:21 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Closure? Don Rowe wrote: >Finally! Closure at last, courtesy of the elegantly >obsessive Mr. Dulson. >Of course, now we have to find something else JC to >argue about ... but that shouldn't take too long! ;-) Gosh...what WAS the title of the first album, anyway? (diving for cover...) ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 17:32:17 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: [Fwd: Those engraved numbers on records] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------974B2057E02BC5F84491FB3E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --------------974B2057E02BC5F84491FB3E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <3784E99B.BB890CB@saber.net> Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 11:10:35 -0700 From: Randy Remote X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Giles Subject: Re: Those engraved numbers on records References: <3784E5B6.7E2DAA3A@cts-lansdowne.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Sometimes for whatever reason, the Production Master Tape is not supplied to the > new cut, perhaps only a dodgy copy could be found or something (believe me, it > happens) - It happens alot. A good number of the first wave of CD's were rushed out using the LP masters which have a special EQ curve to offset the shortcomings of the LP process, resulting in inferior sound. Record companies frequently press vinyl or CD's with whatever they happen to get their hands on rather than taking the trouble to look for the original master. We end up paying for it down the line when they remaster with the correct version, and we have to shell out for the new one. Hendrix CDs have been the ultimate nightmare, with about four versions, each one less crappy than it's predessessor. Court and Spark is another notorious example, the original CD being pretty terrible. btw: since HDCD's have been mentioned, I thought I would point out that having a HDCD player will extract the best sound from a HDCD disc, but even regular players are able to utilize some of the sonic improvements. RR - --------------974B2057E02BC5F84491FB3E-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 20:43:01 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Furry Sings the Blues In a message dated 7/7/1999 6:31:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, trxschwa@bway.net writes: << well, i think there's a subjective taste here, i know more than one jmdler who finds amelia boring (not that i do, but it is very sparse). personally, i find the chord changes on refuge and song for sharon to be, oh, i don't know, murky, less than perfect. refuge sounds too obviously like the last song on an album, and not in the best sense. and song for sharon just suffers for coming after hejira, where each interval has a wonder that still puts me in a trance, after all these years. i like refuge and sharon; they maintain the unbelievable standard of wordsmithing on that album but the music leaves me a little cold. >> When Hejira came out it was on an LP (Long Playing record) Song For Sharon was on the 2nd side with no song befor hand to hear until you flipped over the record. I can remember countless days just listeningt to that song over and over again. I just loved it growing up (age 14). I would sing it and try to mimick her exactly. This was when I decided I did not want to be a model...lol... (sorry Bob Mueller) and to become another Joni Mitchell performer. I took singing and guitar lessons and would sing nothing but Joni Mitchell. To this day I am spoiled by her and really only like to perform her music. I tried doing Carly or Carole but just always prefered Joni songs. I think it is the lyrics I like the most since I can't play rhythm like she can. SHE is amazing in that department! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 20:02:46 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: HaHaHa Ashara stammered: "DOES NOT mean this is an ANNUAL gathering!!!!! (Just you wait, Michael Paz, just you wait....I've got my old lady cane out for YOU!!!) Hugs, Ashara {laughing my tush off!}" YAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY! YIIIIPPPIIIIEEEEEEE! Ashara is going to do this every year. I can now stop stressing about where to go every summer. That is what you meant isn't deary? Oh and by the way, nice tush! Love Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 21:35:41 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: HaHaHa In a message dated 7/8/1999 9:08:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net writes: << Ashara stammered: "DOES NOT mean this is an ANNUAL gathering!!!!! (Just you wait, Michael Paz, just you wait....I've got my old lady cane out for YOU!!!) Hugs, Ashara {laughing my tush off!}" And then Mike so joyfully responds..... YAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY! YIIIIPPPIIIIEEEEEEE! Ashara is going to do this every year. I can now stop stressing about where to go every summer. That is what you meant isn't deary? Oh and by the way, nice tush! And now Catgirl says: Yea! from me too! I wanted to have a yearly trip to go to besides the Philly Folk Festival and now you have made this happen! Thanks Ashara! WHOOOO-HOOOO! Another happy Jmdler!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 20:21:33 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Toronto, Central Park, Names Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 15:37:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue Toronto was great but no Joni sighting, alas. The du Maurier Jazz Festival was happening, though, so heard a lot of good sounding Jazz. Wish we could have been able to attend Cassandra Wilson's performance Wednesday night. Glad to hear from all who attended the concert in Central Park. It must have been really fun to watch Joni being an audience member rather than on stage. I was sad to hear that she didn't participate in the encore, but that's our Joan for ya. On the name game...there was a musician at the Jazz Fest by the name of Dick Hyman. Should we introduce him to Fonda Dicks? Sue Cameron (Suze) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 22:23:54 -0400 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Subject: Re: Amelia Mark wrote: > > I > think it is about searching for something - love, happiness, > fulfillment, glory - and being ultimately frustrated by wrong turns & > dead ends. Will > the arms you crashed into when the overwhelming feeling you felt when > you looked down on everything keep you safe and make you happy? Guess > again. Another false alarm. Is there some answer in fulfilling that > dream to fly? Not for Amelia. She was swallowed by the sky or the > sea. No answer there, just another false alarm. They're all just dreams, dreams & > false alarms. > > > > Mark in Seattle Wow, Mark, that was profound! I knew this song tied together somehow, but I could never quite fit all the pieces together. I really enjoyed your ideas. - -Jenny CT NP Hejeira(my fave because I'm only particles of change orbiting around the sun) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 22:50:16 -0400 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Subject: [Fwd: Re: Amelia] Message-ID: <378562E3.73CF@snet.net> Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 22:48:03 -0400 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Reply-To: jlhall01@snet.net Organization: The Mortgage Finance Corp. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-SNET (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Amelia References: <3783EB4F.7FC7@snet.net> <3783F039.D86BFD8D@lightspeed.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Phyliss Ward wrote: I always saw this as mainly a love/men > thing. Like she thought it was love but it was just a false alarm. > > Maybe I've never really loved > I guess that is the truth > I've spent my whole life in clouds > At icy altitudes Phyliss, when you put it that way, now I know why I love this song. Did you ever (I'm sure you have) love a song because it made you feel a certain way, just like a person you loved could make you feel a certain way and that song reminded you of that person and that feeling?(It made sense to me, at least) I used to listen to this song with Steve Hax, my "Coyote", and I thought I loved him. Sometimes, I still think maybe I do or did. But it was just a false alarm, he never loved me back. He never even experienced the false alarm, I was just another girl he had. Sad, huh? I wonder sometimes if I'll be eighty years old and still crying over him... - -Jenny CT NP Hejeira(again....I told you it's my favorite) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 22:56:40 -0400 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Subject: Re: Amelia Dear Jill, Then I guess I was right on both parts, both about her and amelia and the men! I never noticed, but now that I think of it, she and Amelia do posess a strong resemblence to one another. Thanks for pointing that out. I have never seen the video of that, would love to. thanks, Jenny CT np song to sharon Jill Tamada wrote: > This song is about the end of her love affair with John Guerin. The comparison > to Amelia Erhardt I believe is because the two are both pioneers in their > profession following their dreams in a time when women were not supported > or encouraged to do so. Also, Joni sees a strong physical resemblence > between Amelia Erhardt and herself. The song is about the sadness and > disappointment she feels that the relationship was just another false alarm, > not the permanent relationship she had hoped it would be. > > Have you seen the "Shadows and Light" video with the footage of Amelia > Erhardt that fades into Joni performing Amelia. > > All the best, > Jill > > "Jennifer L. Nodine" wrote: > > > > I happen to love "Amelia" but still haven't quite "gotten it". I > > understand (I think) that she's comparing her obsessive love of music to > > Amelia Eirhart's obsession with flying. I get that she has accepted the > > jeers of those who don't appreciate her and persevered anyway (like > > Amelia)BUT WHAT WAS THE FALSE ALARM????Maybe I'm totally wrong and this > > song is about men...Amelia had just about as much luck in that dept as > > Joni. I LOVE the line "And looking down on everything, I crashed into > > his arms" which does make me kind of think this is about men. Can > > anyone help me? (I'm not as deep as some of you in here-sorry for my > > ignorance everyone, but I've only been actually trying to figure her > > lyrics out for a couple of years or so) > > > > -Jenny > > CT > > np Furry sings the Blues ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 23:03:31 -0400 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Subject: Joni are you out there? Does anyone else in this room secretly hope that Joni is one of us in disguise, just pretending to be an everyday person? I do. And I hope that she gets this message...PLEASE QUIT SMOKING!!!!It is bad for your beautiful voice and it will remove you from us early, and as you can see, we CANNOT live without you, Joni! Love, Jenny- CT np BlackCrow (which inspired me to be a crow for Halloween one year) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 23:17:35 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Amelia] In a message dated 7/8/1999 11:01:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jlhall01@snet.net writes: << I used to listen to this song with Steve Hax, my "Coyote", and I thought I loved him. Sometimes, I still think maybe I do or did. But it was just a false alarm, he never loved me back. He never even experienced the false alarm, I was just another girl he had. Sad, huh? I wonder sometimes if I'll be eighty years old and still crying over him... -Jenny >> I had one of them. And yes he was the one who made *that sad request of to me kindly stay away*.....Yes, you do get over them but you never forget..*you and me deep kisses and the sun going down*.....that just seems to always stay in the back of your mind..... Catgirl NP Paul Simon-Let me take you to the Mardi Gras ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 23:21:41 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Those engraved numbers on records In a message dated 7/8/1999 1:57:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tech@cts-lansdowne.co.uk writes: << When a record is re-released or released in a different country etc, it is quite common for a new cut to be made from (hopefully) the original production master tape. It will be the same record, but will have a new catalogue number reflecting the new record company or whatever. Sometimes for whatever reason, the Production Master Tape is not supplied to the new cut, perhaps only a dodgy copy could be found or something (believe me, it happens) - and a cut from a different tape may well sound quite different from the original. Also the quality of the subsequent manufacturing can have a huge effect on the quality of the sound. >> I doubt if my Joni Japanese import was made from a dodgy copy. The sound is pristine and for back in 1979 (when I bought the album) that was the closest thing to a Cd at that time. I remember a friend of mine was telling me about these silver disc that would eventually take over records and I remember laughing at him...imagine that! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 00:14:25 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni are you out there? In a message dated 7/8/99 11:10:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jlhall01@snet.net writes: << Does anyone else in this room secretly hope that Joni is one of us in disguise, just pretending to be an everyday person? I do. And I hope that she gets this message...PLEASE QUIT SMOKING!!!!It is bad for your beautiful voice and it will remove you from us early, and as you can see, we CANNOT live without you, Joni! Love, Jenny- >> Jenny, Do I tell you how to live your life? At least not intentionally. So let me enjoy mine however I want. Love, Joan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 23:18:09 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Furry Sings, Dogs Bark, & Joan The Bitch Hello All- Still catching up with digests, threads, and spools (in the studio). I LOVE Furry Sings the Blues and have always had pictures in my head of what that experience was like for Joni. I have tried to play it but have NOT worked it out yet. I bought Dog Eat Dog on CD again cause my copy must have grown feet and split. While I love certain songs on here like Three Great Stimulants and Ethiopia. This album has always disturbed me from the perspective of her guitar playing. It is non existent. She is not even credited as a guitar player (not that Landau is a slouch I love him, but it is sorely lacking here playing) and I wonder why she doesn't play o this record. A few of the piano tracks on the record sound like her, but for the most part it sounds like she is a side man on her own project. Could this have been the EVIL Thomas Dolby's influence or her lack of drive for the project. I'd have to say this record comes in dead last on my list (which means nothing cause seeing how I bought it again, I will probably listen to it more and discover something wonderful). I worked with Joan Jett at Spring Fest in Pensacola last May and I have to say she was rude, anti social, and quite bitchy about everything (the monitors, the crowd, the this the that). I really like it when we work with people who don't seem SO affected by their status is the rock and roll food chain. Emmylou Harris was a person we worked with year before last there that was the total opposite of Jett. She was very friendly, sincere, and a down to earth warm person. There are so many people that I meet and work with that are really cool like: Sarah McLachlan, Warren Haynes (Govt Mule as well as Matt Abbs, and Allen Woody), Brian Blade (super nice), Eric Johnson, Aaron Neville, Art Neville, + many more. For those of you who do not want to pay $19 for the Stormy Weather CD everyone who asked me for the address and phone # of the wonderful lady at ATT who supplied me mine, has received their copies. I am happy to respond to however wants it and encourage you to send money to Wally Breese and/or Les for operational support of our favorite sites. Looking forward to the weekend. Love, Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 23:28:20 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: B. Mitchell Reed (Joni content) All this talk about early Joni in L.A. and B. Mitchell Reed got me on a roll so I did a little research and have made contact with two people who may be providing me with tape copies of some of BMR's radio broadcasts from the August 1967 - August 1968 time period. Since Reed was playing and promoting the STAS songs on L.A. radio before it was released in March '68, I am hoping, hoping to discover some Joni content in the tapes. An auspicious sign - one of the tapes is an August 1967 interview with STAS co-producer David Crosby! I'm very excited about this and just had to share. I will, of course, report my findings as soon as possible ;-D Kakki ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #110 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?