From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #85 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, June 20 1999 Volume 01 : Number 085 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JONI, James & A Case Of You [Patrick Mead ] Joni's Guitar Style [michaelb@coolgold.com.au (Michael)] Exploding the Myths ["Paul Castle" ] JONI UNDER THE COVERS ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Joni's Guitar Style [waytoblu@mindspring.com] Re: Joni's Guitar Style [RMuRocks@aol.com] the wrong joan always gets the credit! ["Takats, Angela" ] Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! [Ginamu@aol.com] Lyric Quiz - it's finally here! ["Helen M. Adcock" ] got my PWWM and where is mark isham? [Ryan Lantrip ] Joni's Hollywood Hills House Sold [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Joni's Hollywood Hills House Sold ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 01:49:58 -0700 From: Patrick Mead Subject: Re: JONI, James & A Case Of You At Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:38:10 -0800, simon sez: > >it was recorded at the BBCs' Paris Theater Studios in early dec. 1970 >and broadcast on december 20, 1970. > >this program is often *mistakenly* listed as a concert broadcast >recorded at Royal Festival Hall on 10-29-70. It is great to learn this, simon, and I am sure the many collectors on JMDL will all appreciate seeing the documentation that at last lays to rest the confusion on this point. Circulating copies of the show have actually borne a variety of dates and venues, the only thing that is readily apparent from listening to the recording (from the enthusiastic roar of the crowd) is that it was recorded in a fairly large theater. I am delighted to see the question at last resolved with certainty. Also recently some JMDL-ers have speculated about the possibility that "Carey" may be a Joni cover-name for James Taylor. There really was a Carolinian whom Joni met while in Mattala, Crete, and his name really was Carey, and he was not James Taylor. He was instead a person, according to concert recordings of Joni, with red hair and a red beard and an affection for red wine (the "redneck on a Grecian Isle," "the red, red rogue" & "bright red devil" of all the dulcimer songs on Blue). She spoke of him affectionately in her Crete stories on concert stages from about the time the Crete songs first appeared (BBC) on throughout the 1972 tour. Kakki informed the list a little while ago that she understands that Carey is reputed to be alive and well and currently residing in the Los Angeles area. I was chided publicly on this list by simon a few weeks ago for concluding that Joni enjoyed a romantic relationship with Carey (I admit with abject shame that I failed to produce sworn depositions and DNA evidence), so those of you who have *speculated* that Carey was James Taylor had best wise up quick. I continue to suspect that Joni and Carey might have pretty darn friendly with one another, based on what I hear in those songs on Blue like California and A Case Of You, but one probably should not read between the lines with art, d'ya think? Anyway, love those Crete dulcimer songs, they are an emotional time machine for me EVERY time. /Pat mailto:pmead@pacbell.net CD-R, cassette & video tape trades: ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 20:02:05 +1000 (EST) From: michaelb@coolgold.com.au (Michael) Subject: Joni's Guitar Style Hi ya All After listening to TT8 and TTT I am wondering what has happened to joni's guitar style.It has changed quite radically and IMO not for the better.She seems to have become quite a lazy guitar player, maybe relying on the warm full sound of the VG-8 to cover the articulate playing she used to do.Sure artists do evolve but it seems to me what her playing has become has not been a natural progression.A song that comes to mind is Facelift.The guitar does nothing for the song in fact it detracts from it but I know what Joni could play to fit the melody and make the song sit beautifully, but doesn't.I am worried that we may never hear her wonderfull guitar playing again.Has this come about because of the VG-8 or does anyone think this was happening anyway? Michael http://www.coolgold.com.au/~michaelb/index.html michaelb@coolgold.com.au Either we are alone in the universe ...........Or we're not............ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 11:31:55 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Exploding the Myths Following the recent thread on Matala and her 'mean old daddy', I was amused to read (in Bill Flannagan's article 'Lady of the Canyon') how he had 'exploded' into Joni's life. "...I like colorful people. Some of the people that have remained in my life entered my life in a colorful way. Carey Raditz [the inspiration for the song "Carey"] blew out of a restaurant in Greece, literally. Kaboom! I heard, facing the sunset. I turned around and this guy is blowing out the door of this restaurant. He was a cook; he lit a gas stove and it exploded. Burned all the red hair off himself right through his white Indian turban. I went, 'That was an interesting entrance—I'll take note of that.'" PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 13:31:03 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: JONI UNDER THE COVERS Martin Giles wrote >I wonder what is the worst cover of a Joni song ever? My candidate has to be Nazareth's destruction of 'This Flight tonight'.> I would have to agree about Nazareth - I saw them perform this live just after the single was released - I think they were supporting Joe Cocker or someone - it was unbelievably loud and insensitive (imagine Spinal Tap doing it and you'll get the picture). The list of Joni covers at http://www.jonimitchell.com/Frames1.html is quite surprising. Although I've haven't heard these, I suspect that Jonathan King singing 'Free Man in Paris' or Goldie Hawn singing Carey would be close runners up for me. I must admit that I have never been a big fan of Neil Diamond either - he seemed so out of place in The Last Waltz. PaulC np Spinal Tap - Lick my Love Pump (sorry! wrong thread) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 09:45:15 -0400 From: waytoblu@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Joni's Guitar Style > .She seems to have become quite a lazy guitar player, maybe >relying on the warm full sound of the VG-8 to cover the >articulate playing she used to do.Sure artists do evolve but it seems >to me what her playing has become has not been a natural progression.> An artist of Joni's caliber is quite capable of playing in whatever style befits her. And having been playing and writing for over thirty years, I think she can decide what sort of sound she is looking for. She certainly isn't going to be limited be any digital technology. Neil Young, for example, has probably been more experimental than any other recording artists in his genre, putting out albums vastly different from one another. He doesn't always please everyone but he has stayed fresh and constantly tried different sounds and ideas. An album is just one musical statement. It doesn't encompass the artist. An artist of Joni's depth can pretty much do whatever she wants. I think you should cut her a little slack. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 12:01:03 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Guitar Style Victor comments: << An artist of Joni's depth can pretty much do whatever she wants. I think you should cut her a little slack. >> I'm with Victor on this - she can still play in the older/original styles (I'm thinking of "Just Like This Train" & the Hejira songs she does live), but I think she's working with new guitar textures to keep it interesting to herself. I don't think she's lazy at all, gee whiz, most of her peers (I mean musicians her age) have been coasting for years and probably boring themselves to tears. Remember that as soon as you get comfortable with what Joni's doing, look out, cuz she's getting ready to change! :~) Personally, after hearing her on the gorgeous, gorgeous "Stormy Weather", I'm ready to hear her sing more with the big orchestra! You go girl, or as Catgirl would say, "WHOOO HOOO!" :~D Bob NP: Jen Trynin, "I resign" from Gun Shy Trigger Happy(Thanks for the heads up on this one Jase...it's a rocker!!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:46:48 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: the wrong joan always gets the credit! Hi Listers, At the risk of offending Joan Baez fans and I'll try and keep this tame.... Can i just say that it REALLY pisses me off when people talk of her being THE female singer of the sixties/seventies. I have read several books and seen docos on music from that time and why is it that this woman seems to get so much "page space" when she was so average in comparison to joni?? I had a big fight with someone the other day about female artists from that era...they said Baez lead the way! So what's the deal...was she just on the scene before Joni? is that why she seems to get such credit? I don't even like her version of Blowing in the Wind! What is so good about her? was she a great songwriter?? How does she manage to be put in the same catergory as Joni? Something that has been bugging me...Ange, Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 20:19:02 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! In a message dated 6/19/1999 7:49:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ATAKATS@ninenet.com.au writes: << ? I had a big fight with someone the other day about female artists from that era...they said Baez lead the way! >> I never knew that Joan Beaz did tons of writing or was a guitar inovator. Yes, she was popular and yes she dated Dylan but for me she is not the female spokes women of that generation! Joni definately was the female genius of that era! I can't think of one female musician who has had so many interesting songs on each album. Each song to me is a hit! I guess I am spoiled with Joni! I like my songswith a special kind of ambiance, not done by anyone else (remakes) and sound awesome...but that is just me!!! Catgirl... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 20:23:43 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! In a message dated 99-06-19 19:50:02 EDT, ATAKATS@ninenet.com.au writes: >So what's the deal...was she just on the scene before Joni? is that why she >seems to get such credit? The voice. Plain and simple. (IMHO). It is heaven. Doesn't hurt that Joan Baez, (aka the "other joan'), is also associated with the causes of the 60's and the feminist movement and other humane causes. I think that in many ways, Joni Mitchell is the personification of the artist who does it for pure art, (whatever THAT means!), and Joan Baez is the personification of someone who uses their art to change the world. One thing that stuck in my mind while reading the liner notes for JB's Diamond and Rust was when they wrote something about certain causes could prevent her albums from being in a drugstore in Iowa, (!!), and that she chose the song: "Hello In There" as a way to have something of social interest, (concern for the elderly), that would be acceptable across the country. Not that JM doesn't make social statements with her music, it's that JB seems to do it and pushes it through and MAKES it be seen as such. MG np - a break from the Grandma Invasion. 8 more days....8 more days.....8 more days.... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 20:27:40 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! In a message dated 99-06-19 20:22:25 EDT, CaTGirl627@aol.com writes: >Yes, she was popular and yes she dated Dylan but for me she is not the >female spokes women of that generation! Again, I think that Joan Baez is the female spokesperson of that generation, not Joni by a long shot. Beyond a doubt, JM is a genius. Beyond a doubt, she has more interesting songs on her albums, but in my opinion, Baez took her art as a conduit for social change, believed in it, pushed for it and still does. When I think of the 60's and innovators for SOCIAL CHANGE, it's Baez all the way. JM was far too introspective to be a vanguard of the peace movement or women's rights. MG np: my mother calling me from the backyard..... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 14:24:05 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Joni's Guitar Style >.She seems to have become quite a lazy guitar player, maybe >>relying on the warm full sound of the VG-8 to cover the >>articulate playing she used to do.Sure artists do evolve but it seems >>to me what her playing has become has not been a natural progression.> I was under the impression that Joni was having serious back and muscle problems (something I can sympathise with) as an after-effect of problems she had with polio as a child. So she not only has to use a very light guitar, but it is quite painful to play anything, let alone the complicated "articulate" songs she used to play. I may be wrong about this, but it would seem to be a reasonable reason for why her guitar playing has "simplified" over the last few years? Helen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 00:02:29 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! In a message dated 6/19/99 8:27:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MGVal@aol.com writes: > Doesn't hurt that Joan Baez, (aka the "other joan'), is also associated with > the causes of the 60's and the feminist movement and other humane causes. I > think that in many ways, Joni Mitchell is the personification of the artist > who does it for pure art, (whatever THAT means!), and Joan Baez is the > personification of someone who uses their art to change the world. One thing > > that stuck in my mind while reading the liner notes for JB's Diamond and > Rust > was when they wrote something about certain causes could prevent her albums > from being in a drugstore in Iowa, (!!), and that she chose the song: "Hello > > In There" as a way to have something of social interest, (concern for the > elderly), that would be acceptable across the country. Not that JM doesn't > make social statements with her music, it's that JB seems to do it and > pushes > it through and MAKES it be seen as such. > I completely agree. Joan was no musical innovator but she deserves much credit for bringing politics and issues to the people in the style of Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger, among others. I was rather young in Joan's heyday but the effects of her influence still lingered for me as a teen in the mid-seventies. MG goes on to say: The voice. Plain and simple. (IMHO). It is heaven. Now, this is where I can't agree. I never really liked her voice very much. She often belted things out too loudly and the high notes were too high and grating. The strident nature of her singing, though, was perhaps what made it so effective in getting a message across and I can't help but be drawn to her just the same. Just my thoughts. Joan was/is an appealing woman: strong, intelligent and unwaveringly committed to her causes. Like Joni, she is strikingly beautiful in a way that appears to transcends the physical, at least so I'm told by someone I know who met her about two years ago. Someone asked about Joan Baez' songwriting. I don't think she wrote much at all until around the time of Diamonds and Rust, where she didn't do a half-bad job, IMO. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about when she started to write and record her own songs. Smiles to you, Gina NP: nothing...I'm tired and going to bed...night ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 16:13:34 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Lyric Quiz - it's finally here! Here it is! I've finally got around to compiling the Joni Mitchell Lyric Quiz. It actually only took me an hour or so - much quicker than I'd anticipated - hopefully I haven't made it either too easy, or too hard! It's pretty straight-forward. Just guess the song/album the lyric (not necessarily a "whole" line) comes from. To make thing easier, there are at least three songs from each album, excluding the live and compilation albums, ie. Miles of Aisles, Shadows and Light, Hits and Misses. So three songs from each of the other 16 (from STAS to TTT), and an extra two lyrics, to round it up to 50 (ordered alphabetically below). I'll give everyone a week , ie. until next Sunday, to reply (off-list, obviously) to hell@ihug.co.nz then I'll forward the results/answers and most lyrically knowledgable person(s) names to the list! Good luck!!! Helen The Joni Mitchell Lyric Quiz 1. ...a priest with a pornographic watch... 2. ...a ruby in a black man’s ear... 3. ...all this talk about holiness now... 4. ...and his eyes said me and his eyes said you... 5. ...and my child’s a stranger... 6. ...butterflies and lilac sprays... 7. ...Charlie’s bass and Lester’s saxophone... 8. ...cold cuts and highway hand-me-downs... 9. ...crows and ravens whistling, lines of weeping... 10. ...freedom scribbled in the subway... 11. ...from the neon lights, come down from the tourist sights... 12. ...God goes up the chimney... 13. ...he sings Merry Christmas for you, just like Nat King Cole... 14. ...hexagram of the heavens... 15. ...I am flesh and blood and vision... 16. ...I cleared myself, I sacrificed my blues... 17. ...I comfort him sometimes... 18. ...I sure can be phony when I get scared... 19. ...I watch for judgement anxiously... 20. ...I’m sitting on my groceries... 21. ...in the barrooms - poor drunk bastard falls... 22. ...let fate and duty shape us... 23. ...love bandits con and plunder... 24. ...one little victory, that’s all she needs... 25. ...or maybe it’s you, Judas in the end... 26. ...places to come from and places to go... 27. ...red taillights on his hide... 28. ...she follows you home but you miss living alone... 29. ...shine your light on me Miss Liberty... 30. ...sign all the papers in the family name... 31. ...sly lover boys with big bad bedroom eyes... 32. ...the gossips had a gourmet feast... 33. ...the silence is so full of sounds... 34. ...the sun through yellow curtains... 35. ...the swoosh of jungle blades and the crackle of northern ice... 36. ...they offer relief for the purchase price... 37. ...they’ll plant me in the dirt... 38. ...through the sharing of the profits... 39. ...time has been untruthful... 40. ...to see who in the world I might be... 41. ...to this innermost secret temple... 42. ...too much pride and too much shame... 43. ...turn this crazy bird around... 44. ...walk on eggshells and analyse... 45. ...we move in measures, thru loves’ changing faces... 46. ...while madmen sit up building bombs... 47. ...with their tassled teams they come to McGee’s General Store... 48. ...you get - frostbite and sunstroke... 49. ...you praise barbarity... 50. ...you’re romanticising some pain... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 00:17:17 CDT From: Ryan Lantrip Subject: got my PWWM and where is mark isham? I bought my copy of PWWM today, the first time i have seen it anywhere. Apparently where I bought it, a Disc Jockey in Indiana, they have been paying it on the TVs for a few days. and i getting a big kick out of seeing Joni actually moving around. But where is Mark Isham? Joni introduces him as then trumpet player, then for most of the show, he seems to be missing, even for parts where a trumpet is used on the song on the album. Did he go off stage or am i just not seeing him? Did anyone else notice this? RL _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 02:06:16 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Joni's Hollywood Hills House Sold I think it was Kakki who mentioned this house was on the block a few months back. Someone had also speculated that Joni was going to give it to Kilauren, as I recall. Did you ever get to take a look at it, Kakki? Anyone? This is from yesterday's L.A. Times: <> - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 23:04:05 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni's Hollywood Hills House Sold Hi Julius, > I think it was Kakki who mentioned this house was on the block a few months > back. Someone had also speculated that Joni was going to give it to > Kilauren, as I recall. Did you ever get to take a look at it, Kakki? Anyone? Ken and I had read about it in the L.A. Times in the Hot Property column. Some were speculating why she was selling it. I never took a look at it - the article said "serious buyers by appointment only" and I don't have enough in my bank account to even qualify for looking at the garage ;-) > This is from yesterday's L.A. Times: > The pop icon, 55, sold the three-bedroom, 2,500-square-foot home behind gates > for about its asking price of $829,000. She had purchased the property two > years ago as an investment, then refurbished the house before putting it on > the market in February. My mother called to dutifully read me this item, too. Good for Joni! Kakki NP: Refuge of the Roads - Live in Verona ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #85 ***************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?