From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #78 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, June 13 1999 Volume 01 : Number 078 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re:Joni/Carey/Simon ["P. Henry" ] Judy Collins at Wolf Trap ["B. Workman" ] Re: message to joni, larry, or anyone with sway; some jc [Dflahm@aol.com] RE: message to joni, larry, or anyone with sway [patrick leader ] Re: Lyric Game [Phyliss Ward ] Re: the siquomb tour [LRFye@aol.com] Re: Searching for Drummers and other Musician Types! [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Butch Solutions to Joni [TreyCozy@aol.com] RE: message to joni, larry, or anyone with sway; some jc [patrick leader ] Joni has a new album? [Ryan Lantrip ] re:JONI UNDER THE COVERS ["Takats, Angela" ] RE: Lyric Game ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Joni has a new album? [Phyliss Ward ] Re: Lyric Game ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: Searching for Drummers and other Musician Types! [TerryM2442@aol.com] problem? [GREYC1@aol.com] Re: problem? ["Gene Mock" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 01:56:08 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re:Joni/Carey/Simon Pat wrote: "I wonder how many others listen to Blue and assume there was a romantic relationship between Joni and Carey?" tell me about it! and a hot one at that! *waving hand in the air frantically* shouting "I'm one! I'm one!" pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 08:03:19 -0400 From: "B. Workman" Subject: Judy Collins at Wolf Trap Saw Judy Collins at Wolf Trap in a concert that was recorded to be a live album to benefit PBS. Lovely show. Some very fine songs (City of NO, In the Heat of the Summer, Amazing Grace, etc.,) Two of the clinkers as far as a live album goes were unfortunately Both Sides Now (never in sync with her keybaordist) and Chelsea Morning (where she messed up the lyrics). Nice show anyway. bdub ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 08:24:05 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: message to joni, larry, or anyone with sway; some jc Raymond, I sure would miss NY if I moved away. I was born here and hope to live my life to the end in Manhattan. "If Love Were All" is a song I'd had in my files and played from time to time for many years before Dee Ella Spears said she wanted to put it in her show (about 1995). In fact, the earliest memory I have of hearing it regularly and absorbing it dates from 1980 when Judy Kreston, with Cheryl Hardwick on piano, sang it on Cornelia Street in the Village at JAN WALLMAN'S RESTAURANT. This was fairly significant for me because Judy and I had just begun our romance; we're still together, married since 1990 and we just celebrated 19 years of working together in cabaret. It's a great song-among many reasons-because it's long enough that all by itself it puts some mass, some bulk, in a cabaret act. I think it's hard to make an audience remember you if you have given them 15 unconnected songs to digest. Much preferable to have four or five segments, each of which really "says something." This usually requires groupings or melanges of songs whose relationship to each other is either predictable or startling-but-in-hindsight-inevitable. Of the latter type, I always cite Arthur Kirson, who put together a hair-raising medley a few years ago: "Hello, Young Lovers" and "They Can't Take That Away from Me." A very unexpected pairing, but, perhaps for that reason, enormously moving. So, if you know "Happy Talk," I think you may see that it is saying many of the same things as "If Love Were All" although in a very different rhetorical style. Dee Ella's audience was not the ideal crowd for anything that arty or subtle, but we were happy with the way it turned out; basically that means the transitions between the songs sounded natural, not clanky. As for Joni Mitchell singing "If Love Were All," I think it's a long shot. IMO, she would not sign onto the feeling expressed in the lyric "I believe the more you love a man, the more you give your trust, the more you have to lose." Unless she's evolved much further than I perceive, this is too far away from "Something's lost but something's gained from living every day." (I hope I quoted that correctly). Similarly, to move to another recent list-thread, I'd be surprised if she endorsed the sentiment of "Come Rain or Come Shine." The persona I hear in her recordings celebrates the INTENSITY of love but from "Chelsea Morning" to "All I Want" to "Night Ride Home," hasn't had much to say about the PERMANENCE that is so much the subject of "Come Rain..." Ironically, for the Joni-persona I perceive, there is a perfect song from the same musical which introduced "Come Rain.." i.e, ST. LOUIS WOMAN (1946 w/ Lena Horne). That song is "Any Place I Hang My Hat Is Home." The title just about says it all, but I will quote: Free and easy; that's my style. "How d'ye do" me; watch me smile. "Fare-thee-well" me, after a while, 'cause I gotta roam. And Any place I hang my hat is home. Sweetnin' water, cherry wine, "Thank you kindly" suits me fine. Kansas City, Caroline: that's my honeycomb. And Any place I hang my hat is home. Birds roostin' in the trees pick up and go and the goin' proves That's how it's gotta be; I pick up too, when the spirit moves me. 'cross the river, 'round the bend. Hello stranger, so long friend. There's a Voice in the lonesome wind that keeps whisperin' "Roam." I'm goin' Where the welcome mat is, no matter where that is, 'cause Any place I hang my hat is home. by two of the greatest, Johnny Mercer and Harold Arlen. Ciao for now. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 08:57:34 -0400 From: patrick leader Subject: RE: message to joni, larry, or anyone with sway this show is playing off-bway, it was written in the '40s by porter's biographer (and long-time friend), it's two characters (porter and gertrude lawrence) based on porter's sayings, and as someone pointed out it got a fairly negative review in the nytimes yesterday. i thought i'd add that the review LOVED twiggy, said that when she was singing all is right with the play. patrick np- gershwin's world - -----Original Message----- From: Gellerray@aol.com [SMTP:Gellerray@aol.com] Sent: Friday, June 11, 1999 12:45 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: message to joni, larry, or anyone with sway i wish joni would record "If Love Were All," by Sir Noel (did they make him one of those?). Perhpas it's a bit sentimental and or victim-ish but i don't know, it's awfully eloquent. i see too that there is a Broadway show (with Twiggy?) with the same name. Is it a kind of revue i wonder, a program of N. Coward's songs with some connecting plot? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 09:01:14 -0400 From: patrick leader Subject: RE: Joni's New Album? >Come Rain Or Come Shine. No one has done justice to this classic since Judy i think that bette midler's version, from the 'for the boys' soundtrack, is just wonderful. not belted at all, just caressed. that soundtrack is excellent all the way through, the movie was great during bette's performance sequences, but boy did the rest of it suck! patrick np - gershwins world ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 07:44:01 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Lyric Game Checking in to boast I got 10 out of 10. What a kick! I guess lyrics are important to me. Michael Paz wrote: > > > >http://www.thehub.com.au/~bchudso/jmgame.htm > > Finally had a chance to play the lyric game and I thought it was fun. > This could be a good one for the party. I got 7 out of 10, 8 out of 10, > and 4 out of 10. I need to listen more to the words. I have sometimes > just enjoyed the sound of her voice as opposed to trying figure out > everything she meant by the lyrics. - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 10:54:39 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: the siquomb tour I think my very first post to this list was something about when I lived in Fortuna, North Dakota, three miles from the Saskatchewan border. I spent a lot of time "planning" (day dreaming about) a drive to Maidstone, which I had located on a map. Any chance of visiting there? IS there anything there??? (I know there are at least a few people living there who have internet access, because I've looked it up.) Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 10:30:58 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Searching for Drummers and other Musician Types! I still have to find out if I'll be able to go. I would rather perform with another, since I can't sing and play at the same time worth a damn. Hopefully this summer cold won't kill me! Mark, *cough* *cough* At 11:06 PM -0500 6/11/99, Michael Paz wrote: >Hello All (from steamy hot new orleans) > I was wondering (yes again) how many musicians are planning on going to >Ashara's? I know the ones that I met last year, but I am referring to >newbies/people sitting on the fence/or anyone else who may have passed >out drunk or stoned and not picked up on the plans for this little >shindig. I was thinking it really would be fun to have a WHOLE band. A >drummer with kit would be maahvolous. We had a few of us that were able >to collaborate on some tunes, but I am dreaming of some ensembles to >compliment performances. > Special thanks to Heather for the comments about "family" at last years >Joni fest. I felt that same feeling and it was a very comfortable place >for me to just be. Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net http://home.revealed.net/Harpua http://jmdl.com/guitar/mark "This conformity factory is now closed!" -Homer Simpson ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:14:04 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Butch Solutions to Joni Although I could go on forever about this topic I must say that any one who sings any song should not be afraid to tailor that song to the octave they sing it best in. That must be the sole determining factor IMHO. Many singers especially those who dont thinkl they have a great voice always try doggedly to carry the exact melody while those with great voices donbt worry about that and they make the song their own (Van the Man for instance). They should never be totally afraid to mold the song to their style. We may think it sucks compared to Jonis version HOWEVER anyone who practices art for art sake should never try to duplicate or truly imitate but to allow the song to fulfill their vision and feelings. As I said I could go on forever about this but in a few words I believe this is important. there is no MAN way or WOMAN way to sing many songs. Joni herself says she doesnt sing FOR women she sings for relationships. The trick is if you need to play the song in a radically different key or struycture then they need to put their artistic touch to the tune using jonis melody base and perhaps rhythm base as the foundation.BUT the song must have their personality as well. ie never worry about jonis chords. the song can effectively be sung in any key. You have maybe heard the cliche that a great singer could sing the manhattan phone directory and people would clap. Thats true. marcel.d ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:34:57 -0400 From: patrick leader Subject: modern dancer/ joni fan sighting robert holliston posted this back on may 5 >A short interview with Peggy Baker, one of Canada's foremost modern dancers and choreographers, appeared in this weekend's National Post <>. Two excerpts: Q: Do you have a hero now? Peggy Baker: My hero for the past 30 years, without a moment of interruption, has been Joni Mitchell. I aspire to dance with an eloquence, truth, and originality even remotely comparable to her voice, her words, and music. And she has never stopped growing and developing as an artist. Q: How do you relax? Peggy Baker: I love to read (mainly biographies), to sing with Joni's records, and will never turn down a glass of red wine. well, peggy's an old friend of mine, and when she showed up in my ballet class i just had to tell her about her being discussed on the jmdl. we had a great laugh, and i started to tell her about all the people i've met on this list. another friend of ours was there, and since we stand together at the barre every saturday morning she's heard all about my jmdl journeys to pittsburgh, los angeles, dc at least three or four times, boston, as well as the endless stream of trekkers to new york. peggy was kind of flabbergasted, and so am i, when i think about it. what a great ride this list has been. peggy was at the vancouver concert last may. joni content ends here. the main part of peggy's career was with the modern choreographer lar lubovitch, and he made a great piece to the first three movements of brahms's 3rd symphony. the third movement, a waltz that has one of the most beautifully sad melodies ever written, and in lar's version that movement begins with a solo for the 'woman in red', a role i saw peggy dance dozens of times. i also learned the solo in a rep class, from peggy. when the pianist played the music during the barre in today's class, it was a pleasure to whisper to peggy, 'i can never hear this music without thinking of your dancing'. peggy moved back to canada (toronto) about 5 years ago but she's in town for a dance concert by 40-up, a collective of mature dancers and choreographers. i'm going tomorrow night. patrick np - miles - porgy and bess ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:42:24 EDT From: TreyCozy@aol.com Subject: Re: Butch Solutions to Joni In a message dated 6/12/99 9:18:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, MDESTE1@aol.com writes: << I must say that any one who sings any song should not be afraid to tailor that song to the octave they sing it best in. That must be the sole determining factor IMHO. >> I couldn't agree with you more. YET!! This is easier said than done. People recommend playing Joni's songs in standard in "any key you like", but that takes away the fullness (imho) of that open-tuning-joni sound. Raise the octave - yes. But Joni in standard is just not the same - not to mention very difficult to play! I fear the only REAL solution is the VG8. Wow - what a toy. Wow - what an investment. Trey np - "Pegasus" Myths & Hymns (Guettel - brilliant!! right Patrick??) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:57:15 -0400 From: patrick leader Subject: RE: message to joni, larry, or anyone with sway; some jc hey david, what a great post, fascinating to hear your thoughts on these songs and some of your history in cabaret. will you do me a favor and publicize it on the list when next you and judy perform in ny? i think you make good points about the kinds of standards joni would choose to sing, though i would say she tries to break her own mold, in writing as well as material choices. 'comes love' is really about hopeless love, something joni avoids in singing and writing, no? i'd also say that 'two grey rooms' is a very conscious effort to put herself into a character very alien to her own life. on the other hand, she couldn't sing 'the man i love' the way it was written, changing a line to 'and he'll know right from wrong', which is certainly far from the original sense of the song, which doesn't put any conditions or descriptions on the longed-for lover. she also said something about standards in an interview that struck me as a little dense, describing them as emotional one-notes. even if you granted that (which i don't), i'd still say that's where the singer's art comes in, bringing the complexity in with the rendition. anyway, i love your thoughts on assembling a cabaret show. cabaret is one of the few new york cultural experiences i haven't been able to see much of, because there is no cheap way to do it. i can spend $15 for a standing room ticket, sneak into a $40 seat, and see the new york city ballet dancing george balanchine's ballets, which make up in my opinion one of the most significant bodies of art of the 20th century. i can and do go to museums over and over again. even subscriptions to BAM are pretty damn reasonable. but i have no similar approach (that i know of) to cabaret, which is a shame because i love so many of the standards, from loving the old movie musicals. ah, well, maybe i'll be rich some day. patrick, who thanks ray for quietly correcting me (it was coward, not porter). duh... np - miles - porgy and bess ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:36:47 CDT From: Ryan Lantrip Subject: Joni has a new album? I missed a few digest, but i keep on seeing post about a new joni project and a new joni album....whats going on? what did i miss? RL _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 08:47:01 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: re:JONI UNDER THE COVERS HELLO MARTIN, Nice to hear from you......I'm pretty new to the list too! <> I'm glad you enjoyed reading about the Tribute show, it was an amazing night, especially cos we don't get much 'joni-stuff' down here in Australia. How about in the UK? that's where you are from, isn't it? lots of joni happenings? <> Can't say I've heard many joni covers.....there were some nasty ones at the Tribute...one lady had a bit of a Tony Childs voice - do u know what I mean, like kind of 'flemmy' (oooh, that does sound gross, doesn't it) just really blunt and non-joni sounding. Another girl decided to jazz up Carey, she reminded me of the singer on Ally Mcbeal (who REALLY pisses me off), trying a little too hard. <> I love performing this song! It always gets a reall good responce, even from those who don't know joni's work. (Wondering how listers would rate my interpretation?) I'd be interested to hear how other people do it, think I'll give Nazareth's version a miss thou gh. Thoughts from Ange Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 20:59:07 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Lyric Game well, well, well. I got 10/10, 10/10 and 10/10. Where's the REAL game, if you please? WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:27:40 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Joni has a new album? Joni is said to be working on an album of "standards" with an orchestra - possibly the London Philharmonic. In addition to pieces like "Stormy Weather", She may include some of her own old standards such as "Both Sides Now" : - ) Ryan Lantrip wrote: > I missed a few digest, but i keep on seeing post about a new joni project > and a new joni album....whats going on? what did i miss? - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 14:07:42 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Lyric Game WallyK wrote: >well, well, well. I got 10/10, 10/10 and 10/10. Where's the REAL game, if >you please? >WallyK It's coming, it's coming .... I'm about to start writing it any day now! Helen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:38:56 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Searching for Drummers and other Musician Types! In a message dated 6/12/99 12:14:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net writes: << I was thinking it really would be fun to have a WHOLE band. A drummer with kit would be maahvolous. >> Michael, Though I won't know till the last minute if I can come (and I'm DYING to come, but have a complicated summer coming up), I could play the drums if no one else comes forward. I'm not great, but I can hold my own. Only problem would be lugging a kit on the plane. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 23:40:55 EDT From: GREYC1@aol.com Subject: problem? i'm wondering if there's a problem with the discussion list because i haven't received any email for 2 days now. does anyone know what's up? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 21:31:57 -0700 From: "Gene Mock" Subject: Re: problem? I think everybody must be partying. Oh well. back to the Blue LP. later gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, June 12, 1999 8:40 PM Subject: problem? > > i'm wondering if there's a problem with the discussion list because i > haven't > received any email for 2 days now. does anyone know what's up? > ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #78 ***************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?