From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #73 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, June 9 1999 Volume 01 : Number 073 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Jazz Snobs & The Ultimate Backup Band ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: E.T.'s Crest and Quest-ion ["Kakki" ] Re: Lyric Game ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Day in Garden correction [AUDRE60317@aol.com] J. Collins sings "Chelsea Morning" for Clintons [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: lyrically challenged ["P. Henry" ] Re: lyrically challenged ["P. Henry" ] Re: New Contest? ["Ken (Slarty)" ] Re: Master List [Phyliss Ward ] New contest [Bounced Message ] H.ELP ME.....need an anwer to a tough question!!!! [Bounced Message ] Re: The Boho Dance (long) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: The Boho Dance (long) [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: H.ELP ME.....need an anwer to a tough question!!!! [Mark Domyancich <] JONI UNDER THE COVERS [Martin Giles ] Today in Joni History - June 10 [Today in Joni History ] Re: JONI UNDER THE COVERS [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] RE: HELP ME--Tough Question [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: Strains of Joni Mitchell coming in through ... [Susan McNamara ] Re: Strains of Joni Mitchell coming in through ... [Bob.Muller@fluordanie] Songlynx Online Database ["Kakki" ] Re: Lyric Game [TreyCozy@aol.com] Re: Strains of Joni Mitchell coming in through ... [TerryM2442@aol.com] Joni Covers.. for the boys?? [TreyCozy@aol.com] Joni Apparel ["Russell George" ] Re: Day in Garden correction [LRFye@aol.com] Re: Springsteen/Ticket prices [catman ] Re: Joni Covers.. for the boys?? [Randy Remote ] Re: Master List [LRFye@aol.com] FTR Songbook SJC [Russell Bowden ] In Search of the Penii [Brian Gross ] RE: Strains of Joni Mitchell coming in through ... [patrick leader ] Re: The Boho Dance (long) [catman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 03:42:22 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Jazz Snobs & The Ultimate Backup Band Louis Lynch responded: Subject: RE: Thomas Ross, Joni and Jazz << It reminds me of a great conversation I had with my brother Craig after I sent him Joni's "Mingus" for a birthday present. He's a pro jazz guitarist, I'm an Irish harpist and classical pianist: Craig: It's nice Lou, but it's not REAL jazz. I mean, it's an interpretation of a jazz great, but it's not REAL jazz. >> I'm so happy that you were finally able to convince your brother that Joni is a *real* jazz musician, Louis! I can't convey the frustration I've encountered with friends seriously into jazz who dismiss Joni's as a wannabe (without resorting to profanity)! Gee Zeus, the pop world abandoned Joni for delving deeply into jazz. & Jazz snobs have poo-pooed her amazing compositions until very recently. Thank you, David Lamm, for such an impressive take! I can't imagine a finer backup band than Joni enjoyed on Shadows & Light. When she tours again it should definately be with Pat Metheny & Lyle Mays! Someone recently suggested that Elton John would do justice to Paprika Plains now that Joni no longer plays piano. Although I adore Elton this thought make me cry even more than the thought of Joni giving up playing piano. Not even Lyle could do justice to this song! I have no doubt that the JMDL played a major role in Joni's decision to tour last year. I base this opinion upon the songs she chose for PWWAM & the fact that she invited internet fans to the recording. I'm certain that Joni reads many of our posts & only hope that one day soon she joins in the conversation. In my dweems we fwy.... E.T. NP: First Circle, PMB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 09:45:08 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: The Boho Dance (long) On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 23:20:14 -0700 (PDT) davidmarine1@webtv.net (David Marine) wrote: > The lines that confuse me most are "And you were > in the parking lot/Subterranean by your own design." I've always seen this song as a reply to someone envious of her success. She saying a part of her wants/wanted to be bohemian but the category doesn't totally fit because she enjoys, has always enjoyed, the finer things in life, the cleaner's press in her jeans and "lace along the seams". She is the "lady in a Paris dress with runs in her nylons" from too much dancing. But she's also saying that she's not attached to any of it ("nothing is capsulized in me") - that she can take it or leave it - that fame and fortune just happened to her kind of like luxury coming "as a guest to take a slave" - whereas this other person is so stuck on being subterranean (underground, alternative, bohemian) - determinedly being an artist in noble poverty - that they couldn't change "even if good fortune allowed". And yet, in spite of being determinedly bohemian, this person is totally envious of Joni's success. I've always wondered who this person is. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 09:54:17 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: Joni's Dream Band On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:45:56 +0100 "Paul Castle" wrote: > Hearing (and really liking) Joni's Magdalene Laundries > recording with The Chieftains has got me thinking which > current band I would most like to hear her playing with live. > At the moment, at least, The Yellowjackets would probably > be my first choice, as long as I'm allowed one extra guest > player --Wayne Shorter, of course. Bob Dylan's band sure was good - Larry Campbell on guitar, Tony Garnier on bass, David Kemper on drums and Bucky Baxter on steel guitar and mandolin. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 04:08:41 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Master List Les shared: << As of today the JMDL is 585 strong, as follows: 439 members of 'joni-digest' (75.0%) 113 members of 'joni' (19.3%) 24 members of 'onlyjoni-digest' (4.1%) 9 members of 'onlyjoni' (1.5%) >> This is interesting info, Les. I'm shocked that only 5.1% of the JMDL are *onlyjoni.* & so as not to violate the NJC rule I must add: Today I played my CD compilation, The Crest Of Joni Mitchell, for my jock buddies into Bob Dylan & Carol King (even though they ridicule me for loving Joni). & they were REALLY impressed, requesting that I make them copies. But am I violating copyright laws if I do? So confused, E.T. NP: The Quest Of Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 01:01:17 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: E.T.'s Crest and Quest-ion Eric wrote: > Today I played my CD compilation, The Crest Of Joni Mitchell, for my > jock buddies into Bob Dylan & Carol King (even though they ridicule me for > loving Joni). & they were REALLY impressed, requesting that I make them > copies. > But am I violating copyright laws if I do? > So confused, > E.T. > NP: The Quest Of Joni Mitchell Only if you start bootlegging the CDs on eBay or elsewhere ;-D Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 22:58:58 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Lyric Game Mark wrote: >Someone posted this a long time ago, but for newbies, there is a Joni >lyric game you can play: > >http://www.thehub.com.au/~bchudso/jmgame.htm Finally got around to doing this, and it was fun! But why did I get 7 out of 10 on Level 1, 8 out of 10 on Level 2, and 10 out of 10 on Level 3! Strange.....maybe my brain responds more to obscurities than generalities! Quite likely, I suspect! It's ironic, because on Sunday night (Monday was a holiday) some friends and I were playing our usual "name a lyric and guess the song/artist" game while imbibing various different forms of alcohol, and I couldn't think of anything that they would know (this is very common). I could have done lots of Joni, but the chances of them knowing it was her, let alone knowing the song, were about the same as me discovering that I am Joni's second long-lost daughter, ie. zero (my mother swears she gave birth to me, and I believe her, much as I wanted to believe differently as a teenager). Funny thing was, I guessed most of my friend's lyrics. I even guessed correctly that "the moon and stars came out to play" was from the song "Zoom" - to my dying shame! God, the things that are in my head! Anyway, I've seen similar quizes on other lists - but usually much tougher than the one above. I wondered if there would be any interest if I decided to put together a quiz myself? I was thinking of about 50 lyrics - you guess the album/song, with a minimum of two songs from each album (excluding "Hits" and "Misses")? No tangible prizes, just the knowledge that you know more Joni lyrics than anyone else on the JMDL! I'd also put a time limit on the entries, so people can't study too hard! Anyone want to play? Helen NPIMH - Lots of Joni lyrics that I can't identify with a song - am I the best person for this job?! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 07:42:13 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey Eric howls: <> Eric, I'm a couple of days late in responding, but it's only because I've been thinking about TWTLIL...too bad my Mingus is in SC and I'm in NJ, but I can play it my head pretty good. While I wouldn't call it her most interesting, innovative song it might be the most haunting song she's done. The opening lyric about the TV news foreshadows "Three Great Stimulants" I think. And what do you make of "His grandpa loved an empire, his sister loved a thief"...sounds like she's saying how quickly his family tree has deteriorated. I assume the empire line means the grandpa was European, and Lindsey is now running through the hills of Hollywood...is this comparing European nobility and culture with American dark society? <> For me, to be honest, it was the critical drubbing it received as well as the timing. I would have been a college junior at the time, into more accessible music with limited dollars to spend, so when the choice was "Mingus" or "Some Girls", well, the Stones won. I didn't get back to Mingus until the late 80's. And, good as they may be, there are only 6 songs on the record, so it may be perceived by some as a poor "value". But I think her singing is definitely at its peak on "Sweet Sucker Dance" & "Dry Cleaner", the way she navigates those blue notes over a couple of octaves. And again, it's not very accessible...not even the average Joni fan can hum these melodies as compared to "Help Me", "Amelia", etc. (The exceptions would be the ones that made it to S&L) But don't get me wrong - I love it, I'm just trying to throw out some thoughts in response to your question. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 08:06:29 EDT From: AUDRE60317@aol.com Subject: Day in Garden correction The newspaper is saying it was just a rumor about 10 sceduled events. There will only be 3. Still no names. Keep saying those Joni prayers!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 08:30:00 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: J. Collins sings "Chelsea Morning" for Clintons Hello JMDL friends: This caught my eye in today's L.A. Times. Irks me a bit that the Siquomb one wasn't mentioned in the article, but maybe Judy gave her attribution for the song at the event. My best to one and all. - -Julius <> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 06:27:02 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: lyrically challenged wallyK wrote: >>i've been working on just like me, but the lyrics i hear differ from those posted by pat. can you help? where pat wrote "if he'd drop his defenses, you'd see through...", but i hear "he'll drop his defenses, you'll see through..." then the next stanza sounds different to me too: "i've seen him look hungered for someone to tell him you're doing just fine and the songs that he's sung they have loneliness woven between every line with no strings to hold him i guess he could call himself free yes he's free to be empty and lonely and wrong just like me" if there is someone out there that has the tape at hand, could you check out if i'm hearing right or if it's my english? thanks!!!>> wally, someone has told me the D tuning doesn't work so try open G... as for the lyric, all I can say is: although 33 yrs ago, that's the way she taught it to me... (you know... the usual way one person would teach another a song... she showed me the chords... played some of the more difficult changes through for me, *spoke the words* as I wrote them down...) and not only did I immediately work it into my setlist, but she heard me perform it several times after that as well! if the lyric is, in fact, different, (haven't checked it on the tape yet) my only guess is that it was one of those "pushed around my house, pushed around my land" kinda things. there has been recent onlist discussion of how Joni does this sometimes. the 2nd fret tapes were done after I'd already known Joni, and the song, for about a year. I don't recall her changing it that I heard but then maybe I just glossed over... I'm dead sure about: "if he'd drop his defenses, you'd see through..." that's the way she sang it when I heard her... but, the verse you hear works better... could be she changed it. I don't see a heck of a lot of difference with the rest you quoted... and hey! what about that good ol' first verse??? *S* I don't know anywhere you can find that! I also recall that on the tape something was different... a word... poetic license?? hey, I don't think anyone would gripe regardless of *which* version of BYT or BSN one might play, so, hey... whatever smokes yer shorts! pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 06:34:20 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: lyrically challenged wallyK wrote: >>i've been working on just like me, but the lyrics i hear differ from those posted by pat. can you help? where pat wrote "if he'd drop his defenses, you'd see through...", but i hear "he'll drop his defenses, you'll see through..." then the next stanza sounds different to me too: "i've seen him look hungered for someone to tell him you're doing just fine and the songs that he's sung they have loneliness woven between every line with no strings to hold him i guess he could call himself free yes he's free to be empty and lonely and wrong just like me" if there is someone out there that has the tape at hand, could you check out if i'm hearing right or if it's my english? thanks!!!>> wally, someone has told me the D tuning doesn't work so try open G... as for the lyric, all I can say is: although 33 yrs ago, that's the way she taught it to me... (you know... the usual way one person would teach another a song... she showed me the chords... played some of the more difficult changes through for me, *spoke the words* as I wrote them down...) and not only did I immediately work it into my setlist, but she heard me perform it several times after that as well! if the lyric is, in fact, different, (haven't checked it on the tape yet) my only guess is that it was one of those "pushed around my house, pushed around my land" kinda things. there has been recent onlist discussion of how Joni does this sometimes. the 2nd fret tapes were done after I'd already known Joni, and the song, for about a year. I don't recall her changing it that I heard but then maybe I just glossed over... I'm dead sure about: "if he'd drop his defenses, you'd see through..." that's the way she sang it when I heard her... but, the verse you hear works better... could be she changed it. I don't see a heck of a lot of difference with the rest you quoted... and hey! what about that good ol' first verse??? *S* I don't know anywhere you can find that! I also recall that on the tape something was different... a word... poetic license?? hey, I don't think anyone would gripe regardless of *which* version of BYT or BSN one might play, so, hey... whatever smokes yer shorts! pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 09:44:01 -0400 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: Re: New Contest? You have to remember that most of her cover art is self portraits and she always considered herself "one of the boys". CaTGirl627@aol.com wrote: > > >> > Are you guys trying to say that the above mentioned items are really that??? > catgirl...trying to see beyond the Cactus, duck and peacock...I need a better > imagination...that Herjira thing is way far fetched! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 07:40:45 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Master List As a minority member of the 'onlyjoni' list I pose the questions: What percentage of posts are JC and NJC? Why didn't Les' original post reach me? Was it considered NJC? Eric Taylor wrote: > Les shared: > > << As of today the JMDL is 585 strong, as follows: > > 439 members of 'joni-digest' (75.0%) > 113 members of 'joni' (19.3%) > 24 members of 'onlyjoni-digest' (4.1%) > 9 members of 'onlyjoni' (1.5%) >> > > This is interesting info, Les. > I'm shocked that only 5.1% of the JMDL are *onlyjoni.* > & so as not to violate the NJC rule I must add: > Today I played my CD compilation, The Crest Of Joni Mitchell, for my > jock buddies into Bob Dylan & Carol King (even though they ridicule me for > loving Joni). & they were REALLY impressed, requesting that I make them > copies. > But am I violating copyright laws if I do? > So confused, > E.T. > NP: The Quest Of Joni Mitchell - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 10:43:22 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: New contest From: tolstoy@freent.com Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 02:07:31 -0400 The most obvious inclusion of a penis has to be the self-named "Willy" on LOTC...! Deborah the hesitant ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 10:42:21 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: H.ELP ME.....need an anwer to a tough question!!!! From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 23:56:18 EDT Hi Gang, Ok cutting to the chase..... I won the high bid on the Joni Mitchell songbook from 1969 for $36.00. I think he is paying shipping. Anyway, he just wrote to me and told me that the first song is missing the first page which is *Both Sides Now*. I looked at my photocpied book ( yes, I photocopied the whole book years ago from a friend-she wouldn't part with her book either) I looked at the book I got and *Both sides now* are on one page front and back which means that it is completely missing from the book. He said to me that I could take off a *FAIR* price from the missing page ( but really missing song) What in your opinion in fair? I think the book loses alot of value not being complete but then I don't know. This is one of my first eBay bids. Should I tell him I will give him $30.00 or what? Please everyone respond to this. Especially the songbook collectors. I really don't know what to do but I want the book. the other one on eBay is already over $40.00 but that one looks in perfect shape! HELP!!! Catgirl...starting to pant and pace wildly...meow!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:07:50 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: The Boho Dance (long) After time and study I will respond at more length, but I want to get a couple of points out there now. My dear friend David Marine returned (yippee!!!) to write: <<>> I interpret "subterranean" as her wordplay on "underground," which is her own little dig at artists who intentionally marginalize themselves, and find virtue in the very act of their self-marginalization. Generally I see this song as less critic vs. artist than W. Village (or Chelsea ;-) ) vs. E. Village (metaphorically speaking). Which isn't to say the entire E. Village, but that element that in the eyes of Joni burrows underground for burrowing's sake rather than seeking honest artistic expression, then chiding Joni and other artists's, some accomplished and some not, commercial success as something negative in itself. Or even more accurately, chiding the commercial success as proof of the negative value of the work. I said I'll write later at more length; I promise to write with more clarity as well!! :-) - --Michael - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 13:14:31 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Master List Les, et al, I own a list and realize that only the owner has access through the listserv and the reasons for that. But there are so many times I need an address and can't get it until they post. If everyone agrees, rather than making it available at any time, forward it once to the list and we could save it for future reference? Just a suggestion. I know other lists do that from time to time. Jerry np: Back to the Garden (taping away!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:22:50 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: The Boho Dance (long) David, thank heavens you chose "Send" over "Delete"!! This article ("post" doesn't seem appropriate) is so meaty it's gonna take me awhile to absorb, dissect, and respond. Coincidentally, I heard DITS on WXPN this morning (and Circle Game last night). This station is really superb! Anyway, my first response... <> I don't understand your use of the word "cliched" here...when I think of a cliched lyric I think of phrases that get used over & over. As far as I know, this is an original lyric and an original concept (God vanishing up the chimney like Santa Claus). If anything, the only redundancy is to herself on C&S referring to "the Lord on Death Row"... Well, that's all for now - I just wanted you to know first & foremost how much I enjoyed the piece. I printed it out and will study it tonight in my hotel (while listening to WXPN) :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 18:54:55 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: The Boho Dance (long) Marion wrote (about the subterranean person in the parking lot) >I've always wondered who this person is. I suspect it's the same guy who's the "well kept secret of the underground" which must surely be her best put down line ever. She was obviously obsessed with contrasting clothing styles at the time because in the next tune Harry's House we get businessmen mixing formal and casual by wearing button downs. Philip NPIMH Subterranean Homesick Blues ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:13:25 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: H.ELP ME.....need an anwer to a tough question!!!! It's too bad that you can't retract your bid on eBay without somebody getting pissed. Did this guy say that BSN was missing before you bidded, or in its description when bidding was open? If it didn't I don't feel that you should have to honor your bid. I would tell him that since he didn't say it was missing BSN beforehand you shouldn't have to buy it. There is always a MOJM songbook floating around on eBay. You may want to wait until another one surfaces. Mark, who loves those songbooks! NP-Shadows and Light Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net http://home.revealed.net/Harpua http://jmdl.com/guitar/mark "This conformity factory is now closed!" -Homer Simpson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 19:49:54 +0100 From: Martin Giles Subject: JONI UNDER THE COVERS Greetings from a lurker! I've been a jmdler for only a month now, and admit I've spent the time just reading and enjoying. I get so little time on the computer, it's all I can do to keep up. I'm up to June 6th now and have enjoyed the postings about lurkers, agreeing with most reasons suggested. Also, I read with longing the report on the Joni Tribute concert by Angela via WallyK. What a great idea...sounded like a great evening. It occurred to me while reading - I wonder what is the worst cover of a Joni song ever? My candidate has to be Nazareth's destruction of 'This Flight tonight'. If there are a lot of suggestions, perhaps tape tree 11 could be the tree from hell! :-) Is this a topic worthy of discussion? One of the problems of being a newcomer is I don't know if something has already been 'talked out' even in the recent past. If anyone feels the urge to castigate me for my ignorance I do a pretty dangerous version of 'The last Time I Saw Richard' in a broken, flat baritone. I could send you a .wav file!! Martin. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 12:50:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - June 10 1997: Joni is inducted into the SONGWRITERS' HALL OF FAME. From Wally's bio: [Today] in New York City, Joni is to be honored with yet another award- The Songwriters Hall of Fame. At the organization's award dinner, Joni is being celebrated in the category of "international" songwriter, and will join Phil Spector, Harlan Howard, Ernesto Lecuona and Jimmie Kennedy as the 28th annual inductees. Due to Joni's near-completed work on her next album, she will most likely not be attending. - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:31:44 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: JONI UNDER THE COVERS <> Welcome Martin! <> Of course, like all the "bests" and "worsts", it's all subjective and opinion. Mine is that Roger McGuinn's "Dreamland" is the worst with Cassandra Wilson's "Black Crow" pecking at his heels... <> Martin, if YOU want to know, then it's automatically worthy of discussion...odds are it's been discussed but there's always a new influx of folks who bring their fresh opinions so don't EVER be afraid to come out with it - hopefully the thread we just had enforced that concept! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:35:17 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: RE: HELP ME--Tough Question If the description didn't indicate that BSN was missing from the book, I feel that you have the right to retract your bid if you so choose. I think that E-bay would back you up on this--I'm sure that E-bay wouldn't approve of someone knowingly misleading a bidder. As a collectors item, the value is greatly reduced, but if you still want the book, I would say that a "fair" price is what the two of you can agree upon. Personally, I feel that if you bid $36 thinking that the book was complete, then somewhere between $25 and $30 would be a reasonable price. Hope that this is helpful. Stephen Elliott ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:39:36 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Strains of Joni Mitchell coming in through ... John made my day by saying: ( ... was I glad to read this morning that >SueMac-with-the-Joni-hating-daughter has returned - Sue, you were my >secret hero in the early days of the list ...). and then he wrote this beautiful travelogue about Bohemia and strains of Joni and his Liesbeth (what a beautiful name. I see her with long blonde jonilocks and a peasant blouse. How can you not wear a peasant blouse in Bohemia!!) Thanks, John, for remembering the old days and remembering my stories about my daughter. A couple of weeks ago I was riding in the car with Kate (now 16 and driving) and Whipping Post came on (ALLMANS RULE) and I said, "Oh, Kate, turn it up, I love this song." She turned to me with a cold look in her dark blue eye and said, "Oh, mother, don't you think those guys are just a little too impressed with their own guitar playing. REALLY!" As my jaw hit the shift, I think I drooled slightly trying to maintain my composure. It took me about 4 hours to get my voice back and all I could say was, "too impressed with their guitar playing? The Allman Brothers?" Do you need any more proof that we're dealing with a generation gap here? Anyway, the soundtrack song for me this week is also from Hejira: SONG FOR SHARON - probably the hardest tuning to get sounding right. DACEGA - one slight flat or sharp string and it sounds AWFUL. For proof that this was an annoyance for Joni too in the PRE-VG8 days, there is a tape somewhere of the Save the Whales concert where it takes her about a full 2 or 3 minutes to get the tuning right and at one point she starts singing Stardust to get the strings in synch. Now for a real generation gap question, does anyone know what song I'm talking about? A big hit back in the 40s when Joni was growing up. Take care, Sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:53:28 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: JONI UNDER THE COVERS - - I wonder what is the worst cover of a >Joni song ever? My candidate has to be Nazareth's destruction of 'This >Flight tonight'. If there are a lot of suggestions, perhaps tape tree 11 >could be the tree from hell! :-) > >Is this a topic worthy of discussion? One of the problems of being a >newcomer is I don't know if something has already been 'talked out' even >in the recent past. If anyone feels the urge to castigate me for my >ignorance I do a pretty dangerous version of 'The last Time I Saw >Richard' in a broken, flat baritone. I could send you a .wav file!! > Ooooo Martin, your a funny fellow! I got a good laugh out of this one! Sorry I can't contribute a "worst cover" of a Joni song. I happen to be a Joni purest (all right I confess!). Tho I will say our own Bryan Thomas does a verrrrry good cover of "Little Green". I was lucky enough to hear a live version! I hope you also get to hear Marian, Michael Paz, Terry, Claudia and others do some Joni tunes. I like listening to them 'cause it feels like family :-) Having heard our Bryan (at Ashara's) and Sherelle (at Julie's) .... I think these two should get together and do some Joni tunes :-) Post often, Martin. Heather ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:56:29 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Strains of Joni Mitchell coming in through ... <> By Hoagy Carmichael, it was THE most recorded song before Paul's "Yesterday"...I love Willie Nelson's version on the album of the same name. I'll bet a buck it shows up on Joni's Standards project... Now, can anybody correctly come up with another Hoagy song that holds the record for the longest song title?? Bob, who also loves the Allmans... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:05:46 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Songlynx Online Database Since this may be of interest to the musicians, performers and songwriters on the list, in possibly Joni-connected ways, I have not marked it NJC. You can check it out at http://www.songlynx.com/frameset.html Kakki The Songlynx Database Songlynx is a comprehensive on-line music database through which music users will have the ability to search for a wide range of available songs and master recordings based upon a variety of criteria. This database system can be accessed via the Internet, and is continuing to be refined and expanded, both in its data resources and its functionality. The music searches which are available on the Songlynx system have been organized by song characteristics which are both objective and subjective in nature, each to varying degrees. The objective portions include categories which have been established through general standards and practices in the music industry (such as Pop, Country, R & B, etc.), keyword groups (based upon key words in the title), composers, artists, and chart hit information. See database detail for more information. Song characteristics which are more subjective in nature have been assigned based upon elements which contribute to the character of the composition, such as tempo, subject matter, and instrumentation. These category, keyword, and character searches are song-based, and each song assumes additional classifications based upon the master recordings with which it is associated. For example, a 1930's standard, such as "Georgia On My Mind," may be re-interpreted at a later time by an artist in the 60's, such as Ray Charles. A song such as this would therefore be assigned the classification of 1930's and 1960's hit title, as well as an R & B category and Soul characterization, based upon the Ray Charles interpretation. This particular title would also be assigned under the keyword group "Songs About Places"- another criteria by which a music user can search. The Music Database Songlynx provides music users a Research Tool that allows music users to search for music based on a variety of criteria, such as keywords, keyword groups, decades, genres, and chart hit information. The Online Clearance System Songlynx will also contain an integrated online clearance system called Medialynx through which music uses can gather copyright information, prepare accurate cue sheets, and request clearances for the use of music in their projects -- all with the push of a button. The clearance requests can be sent either to the publishers directly, or to any of the clearance companies they prefer who are "Songlynx- enabled." The Songwriter's Forum Soon to be added to Songlynx will be an on-line chat, where songwriters like Jimmy Webb, Stephen Schwartz and Stephen Bishop will be hosting live forums for visitors wherein the art and the business of songwriting can be discussed at length. Our goal is to expand this site to include a variety of methods through which songwriters can promote themselves and their music to producers and other music users on a worldwide basis. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 17:31:46 EDT From: TreyCozy@aol.com Subject: Re: Lyric Game In a message dated 6/9/99 4:05:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: << Anyone want to play? >> I would love to play. However, I was so disappointed in my score when I played the lyric game. I was the opposite of you!! I got all of them right on the the first level, then about 8 of the 10 on level 2, and a SHAMEFUL 3 out of 10 on level 3. (I can almost hear the collective gasps of the list!!! lol) I love these kind of things - especially when it comes to Joni. My friend Carrie (another Joni freak) and myself play the actually "singing game". It goes like this: You sing a couple of lines (or words) from a song and the other person has to pick up where you leave off. TOO FUN!! Does anyone on the list have the Yahoo Pager? It's free and you can talk online!! Anyone want to play? LOL Trey np - ".. and his eyes said me and his eyes said you.. and my eyes said....." :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 17:41:32 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Strains of Joni Mitchell coming in through ... In a message dated 6/9/99 3:43:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sem8@cornell.edu writes: << SONG FOR SHARON - probably the hardest tuning to get sounding right. DACEGA >> ..and a bitch to sing. Very frustrating. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 17:48:57 EDT From: TreyCozy@aol.com Subject: Joni Covers.. for the boys?? Hello all... I have a question for all you folks out there that enjoy covering Joni's music - specifically on the guitar - especially the men. See, I myself am male, and I find that it poses quite a problem in singing most of Joni's tunes. There are a few exceptions like "Little Green" can be done quite nicely (I've found) by eliminating the capo on 4. Or I've found "Hejira" is nice tuned one step higher with the capo added on the second fret. But so many of her songs require almost the entire use of the neck of the guitar. "Amelia" for example - if you try to use a capo, it's nearly impossible to maneuver around the chords. My question is: has anyone found a solution? Is it possible to buy certain strings that tune higher? I am not that educated when it comes to the engineering of the guitar. Are we males forever banished to singing Joni an octave down in boring bass tones? I want to be able to sing her stuff in that great place like she does -- y'know?? Any ideas? Marian? Sue? Terry? Gentlemen? Trey np - "Sire of Sorrow" - gee, wish it was in my key!! :( ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:45:05 +1000 From: "Russell George" Subject: Joni Apparel I noticed Marian mentioned in a recent post that she has a JM denim shirt and TTT t-shirts. She told me she got the denim shirt through the JM web site and that the t-shirts were sold at Joni's US concerts and there was some talk of them being sold through the web site as well. Unfortunately neither item appears to be available anywhere at the moment. Does anybody have any information on this elusive Joni memorabilia? Thanks, Russell Melbourne, Australia ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 18:53:49 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Day in Garden correction Audre wrote: > The newspaper is saying it was just a rumor about 10 sceduled events. There > will only be 3. Still no names. Keep saying those Joni prayers!!!! Maybe we can do more than just pray! I checked out the website for A Day In The Garden: http://www.dayinthegarden.com. There are links for July, August, and September, but so far the only event listed on the site is the following: Sunday, July 4 - Britney Spears There is also the requisite link, "About the Garden," which says, in part: "The 1998 Day in the Garden Music Festival, which was held on the 29th Anniversary of the original Woodstock Music Festival, was named after singer-songwriter Joni Mitchell's song "Woodstock", in which she sings "We've got to get ourselves back to the garden". That is exactly what 75,000 people did over the 3-day period of August 14, 15, and 16, 1998 in Bethel , New York." Additionally, there is a link to "Register" for a monthly t-shirt drawing. I did this and of course got a form requesting info about my level of education, age, income, etc. They also ask if you attended last year's event, and if so, what day(s) you attended. I went ahead and registered, not to get a t-shirt (I rarely win sweepstakes of any kind), but because I figure that the more info the promoters can gather on who attended last year, the better our chances are of getting a similar line-up this year. With that in mind, I also wrote to the promoters, and I urge you all to do so, too: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subj: Joni Mitchell at 30th Anniversary ADITG? To: diginfo@catskill.net I attended last year's A Day In The Garden festival, on Saturday, August 15th, for the sole purpose of seeing and hearing Joni Mitchell perform. She was fabulous, and the event will always be one of my most treasured memories. Any chance that Joni will perform this year, for the 30th Anniversary at Max Yasgur's farm? 585 people on the Joni Mitchell Discussion List (http://www.jmdl.com), as well as fans who visit Wally Breese's website at http://www.jonimitchell.com, and all of their friends would like to know! Peace, Lori Fye - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Love to you all, Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 00:03:19 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Springsteen/Ticket prices If I knew in advance that Carly was doing a concert, I would fly over to see her. That would cost a lot and not just money as I am petrified on planes. But I would do it to see her live. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 16:10:17 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni Covers.. for the boys?? I haven't found this to be much of a problem, since Joni's voice is pretty high anyway, so an octave down works pretty well. You certainly could retune the strings higher, as long as none of the strings are more than a step or a step and a half max above concert pitch. Any tighter and they will break. Or you could take up Mandolin or something. Or use the VG-8 and play it wherever is comfortable. RR TreyCozy@aol.com wrote: > Hello all... > > I have a question for all you folks out there that enjoy covering Joni's > music - specifically on the guitar - especially the men. See, I myself am > male, and I find that it poses quite a problem in singing most of Joni's > tunes. > > There are a few exceptions like "Little Green" can be done quite nicely (I've > found) by eliminating the capo on 4. Or I've found "Hejira" is nice tuned > one step higher with the capo added on the second fret. > > But so many of her songs require almost the entire use of the neck of the > guitar. "Amelia" for example - if you try to use a capo, it's nearly > impossible to maneuver around the chords. > > My question is: has anyone found a solution? Is it possible to buy certain > strings that tune higher? I am not that educated when it comes to the > engineering of the guitar. Are we males forever banished to singing Joni an > octave down in boring bass tones? I want to be able to sing her stuff in > that great place like she does -- y'know?? > > Any ideas? Marian? Sue? Terry? Gentlemen? > > Trey > np - "Sire of Sorrow" - gee, wish it was in my key!! :( ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 19:26:54 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Master List Jerry wrote, in part: > But there are so many times I need an > address and can't get it until they post. If everyone agrees, rather > than making it available at any time, forward it once to the list and we > could save it for future reference? This might be treading dangerous waters, and I don't think everyone will agree. The JMDL already has a feature for those who want their email addresses published, that being the Gallery. Probably the best thing to do, Jerry, is to begin adding everyone to your email program's address book. Lori, who purposely did not change this subject to NJC San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 16:40:10 PDT From: Russell Bowden Subject: FTR Songbook SJC Haven't posted for a while, but had to share that I just won a bidding war on a FTR Songbook. (I play piano) Being a JMDLer has been a great experience for me. Like someone posted a couple of days ago, I spent years thinking I was the only DIE-HARD Joni fan. She is my Goddess (SIMG) Not as good as SIQUOMB, bur it works for me. I never would have even checked out eBay, but for the info I gleaned from the other great listers. Also like to take the opportunity to praise Wally B. and Les for the amazing and wonderful work they do. C'mon everyone!! When I first saw your Joni list. I liked the JC most-ful Then someone started NJC And everyone went postal. (Sung to the tune of......well, you know!) Anyone, please finish this. Thanks Les for your guidance and patience. Love to all, Russ _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 17:03:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: In Search of the Penii Hi Gang, I'm in a quandry as to whether this thread is NJC or JC. Anyway, I pulled out my cd copy of Clouds and checked it out under the magnifying lamp, and sure enough, there's a penis in Joni's artwork. On the panel where the two naked human/butterflies (one of each gender) are poised over what looks like a 'heaven and earth' globe, there is a smaller globe at the top. In that smaller globe, there are three human figures. The one on the left is definitely seated, male, and naked, with an exposed penis resting on his left thigh. All right - who's next?? Brian np: Mingus, listening with a much different appreciation for this album than when it first came out. === "No paper thin walls No folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 20:05:41 -0400 From: patrick leader Subject: RE: Strains of Joni Mitchell coming in through ... i haven't had a chance to say hi and love to sue, who was such a great cyberfriend to me when i joined the list. i was wondering about joni songs about cats when she told me about 'good samaritan' an unrecorded song available on one of the tape trees. 'tape-trees', i said, 'what's that?' and a world opened up. i'm so glad to see you posting, sue. i have a wonderful text-illustration of the c&s cover, from sue-mac. sue whipped up the timewinds, scribing: >and at one point she starts singing Stardust to get the strings in synch. Now for a real generation gap question, does anyone know what song I'm talking about? A big hit back in the 40s when Joni was growing up. hoagy carmichael, of course. a great '40s and '50s ballad, and also the title song from willy nelson's fantastic '78 album of pop standards. patrick np - jm in tokyo, '83 - 'a case of you' sung in the 'refuge'-era voice. absolutely amazing... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 01:09:15 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni Covers.. for the boys?? Yes, I am ignorant abiut guitars, so am fascinated as to why men find it harder. At first i thought you meant eh key was too high till you mentioned aleways being at the bottom. So is it that you need long fingernails or what? If you respond, don't get technical as I know nothing about guitars! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 01:10:12 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: The Boho Dance (long) M.Russell@iaea.org wrote: > On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 23:20:14 -0700 (PDT) davidmarine1@webtv.net (David > Marine) wrote: > > > The lines that confuse me most are "And you were > > in the parking lot/Subterranean by your own design." And I read this as meaning he had designed an underground parking lot! > > ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #73 ***************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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