From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #69 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Monday, June 7 1999 Volume 01 : Number 069 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Why Others Don't Post [Zapuppy@webtv.net (Rick & Penny Gibbons)] Re: So Far Away [M.Russell@iaea.org] A Case of You Question -- Stop the Presses [evian ] The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey ["Eric Taylor" ] james/joni and a case of you [evian ] Joni tunings and chord shapes [Howard Wright ] RE: The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey ["Wally Kairuz" ] Joni reference in Salman Rushdie's novel [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: Case Of You Question- Stop the Presses [Ginamu@aol.com] Devil's Interval [Kay_Ashley@ars.aon.com] Strains of Joni Mitchell coming in through ... [John van Tiel ] Today in Joni History - June 7 [Today in Joni History ] Re: A Case of You Question -- Stop the Presses [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: radio station LJC [TerryM2442@aol.com] Listening to my groceries ... [Don Rowe ] 'A Case Of You' ~ Joni's Introduction [simon@icu.com] Re: 'A Case Of You' ~ Joni's Introduction [Randy Remote ] Lyric Game [Mark Domyancich ] Joni Litho on eBay ["Kakki" ] Re: radio station LJC ["Ken (Slarty)" ] Re: Case Of You Question- Stop the Presses [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fl] Re: JMDL Digest V4 #246 [Michael E Hawthorne ] Re: Case Of You Question [Vince Lavieri ] RE:re: Case of you question - stop the presses ["Takats, Angela" ] Re: Joni Litho on eBay [Phyliss Ward ] Re: Case Of You Question [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Case Of You Question [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Confessions of a Non-Poster [Jenaya Dawe ] Re: Case Of You Question [TerryM2442@aol.com] re: strains of joni mitchell coming in thru... ["Takats, Angela" ] Re: Joni Litho on eBay ["Kakki" ] $52 later . . . [Lori ] Fw: Confessions of a Non-Poster ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 00:01:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Zapuppy@webtv.net (Rick & Penny Gibbons) Subject: Re: Why Others Don't Post Gina wrote: I wanted to respond to Penny's (Zapuppy) post entitled "Why Others Don't Post" earlier but I accidentally deleted it, twice! Thanks Penny, you're my JMDL guardian angel !! Geez and ah shucks, Gina, if I had known that was the type of post you were planning on putting on-list, I wouldn't have sent another copy for you to quote from. (only to lose, again! tech bonehead! ;-D) You're such a doll!! :-) This does give me an opportunity to add to my first thoughts though, and respond to others'. Marian, oh my, I love your posts! Like Vince, Colin, Kakki and the rest have said, your's are always "must reads". Terry, your Freudian alter ego posts are a riot! Isn't it amazing how many people are concerned with not being articulate enough to post...who would have thunk it? I enjoy everyone's posts, except those that are intentionally cutting, arrogant or petty about "correctness" (spelling, grammar, the occasionally missed NJC tag, etc.) There are really some wonderful hearts here that I'm so looking forward to getting to know better. I love the diversity here. As, I think it was Marian (?), said something of reminding her of school days. The JMDL reminds me a lot of those cherished school days. Sure I had my close girl friends and my boyfriends, but I loved wandering around in all the different little camps at school on a daily basis. I felt equally comfortable with all the groups and mixed it up regularly with the jocks, and the cheerleaders, the academics, teachers, "heads", church kids, artists, obedience, rebellion, goody-goody and the hellion, destroyers, preservers, peacemakers and shit disturbers. (isn't it amazing and so much fun, how we can all weave Joni into all these little things? ;-D) But it is just so wonderful to have that kind of diverse interaction available again. Maybe not face to face so much anymore, (that probably keeps some of us out of trouble, ha ha), but still at the tip of our fingers. This place is just such a blessing to me. Smiles Penny ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:13:53 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: So Far Away On Sun, 06 Jun 1999 09:15:19 -0700 Leslie Mixon wrote: > Well now, if we put two and two together, it's time > to create the Joni commune. We can all give up > our "...name on the door on the 33rd floor in the > air.." our mortgages, our car payments, etc. and > create a 365 day a year Joni content only Woodstock. What a nice fantasy! Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 01:36:53 -0600 From: evian Subject: A Case of You Question -- Stop the Presses > umm...is she talking about some graphic sex > here? > Terry, like MG's brother Leo, I too sometimes accidently, um... how shall I say this... have moments when a Spagetti-O doesn't seem to just be a Spagetti-O... and I just have to put your mind at ease and say that I have never even thought of "A Case of You" in THAT way, so I am sure it will be received in the way you intend it to be. By the way, please let us know how it goes, and how it works out with the piano! Evian, who just upgraded to netscape 4.6 from 4.05, and is cussing himself out for fixing what wasn't broke... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 03:43:50 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey Listening to all of Joni's albums thousands of times I must nominate TWTLIL as her most interesting, innovative song. The guitar work is simply amazing & the lyrics are even more awesome! "If you're smart or rich or lucky maybe you'll beat the laws of man / but the inner laws of spirit & the outer laws of nature / no man can...." is my personal gospel. I would really like to know what it is about the Mingus album that turned fans against Joni. To me it is her shining achievement. My God, Charlie Mingus - perhaps the greatest bassist of the 20th Century - honoring her with his final work & Weather Report as her backup band!? I've long felt that it will take several generations for the world to comprehend the magnitude of Joni Mitchell's genius. Paprika Plains is another example. This stupendous piece is probably what inspired Charles to entrust his last songs to Joni. When I read that she doesn't play the piano anymore I wept! My dweem is to witness Joni play PP & Down To You live. Headlining of course.... E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 01:44:05 -0600 From: evian Subject: james/joni and a case of you MG was listening to: > np: Joni/James concert: "A Case of You" > SAY WHAT??? Ok, who has been holding out..... James and Joni TOGETHER doing "A Case of You"? Fill me in, peoples!!! Evian, who is STILL mad as hell at this stupid netscape upgrade... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:14:17 +0100 (BST) From: Howard Wright Subject: Joni tunings and chord shapes From: "Takats, Angela" >I found the great website where there are all the detunings for joni >songs...and I have worked out several of them. But I was wondering >whether there is a site to describe where one puts ones fingers once the >guitar is detuned? Take a look at: http://www.jmdl.com/guitar There you'll find tunings and chord fingerings for many Joni songs. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 06:18:44 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey for the last couple of weeks, i've been exploring works that deal with the "beast within" with my students. we read "the debutante", a great story by leonora carrington, we're watcing "the innocents", a movie based on henry james' "the turn of the screw", and, of course, we listened to "the wolf that lives in lindsay". I must admit that la vierge [thanks chris!!!] helped me a lot with his insights into the song. to me this is one of joni's most obscure songs. it is such an amazing piece. the guitar has such an alien sound -- my students couldn't figure out that it was a guitar all the time. it is definitely scary, the kind of song that makes you turn on the lights when it comes on. in class, we spent a long time talking about the beast within each of us. the song triggered a lot of introspecton and very interesting conclusions. and it was very funny to see people sneaking out of other classrooms to find out what all that LOUD howling was about! wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 06:31:16 -0400 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: Re: radio station LJC This would be great for Wally's site if he could get them to play only Joni's stuff but they ask for a minimum of 25 artists. TerryM2442@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/6/99 6:14:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Slarty writes: > > << Just found a site where you can put together your own radio station. >> > > What a gem of a site! I'm listening to Crazy Cries right now! This is great, > Ken. > > Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:30:47 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Joni reference in Salman Rushdie's novel Found this on the Dylan list in reference to mention of Dylan and other modern musicians in Salman Rushdie's novel 'The Ground Beneath Her Feet': > "on p. 492, an embedded phrase, 'the hissing of > summer lawns' " posted by Chris Rollason . Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:54:17 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Case Of You Question- Stop the Presses In a message dated 6/6/99 11:13:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, TerryM2442@AOL.COM writes: > I attend a professional conference every year and always partake in the > talent show, offering up a song or two of Joni SNIP: HELP ME..umm...is she talking about some graphic sex here? I don't want to embarrass the hell out of myself in front of my colleagues. Terry, Who exactly will your audience be? Gina ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:13:08 -0400 From: Kay_Ashley@ars.aon.com Subject: Devil's Interval Interesting discussion about tritones. Regarding the use of it in "Sunny Sunday" -- the chord movement underneath "one little victory/that's all she needs" is a tritone substitution. That is, as someone else described, the tritone is in the movement of the tonic of each chord. This is a typical jazz device, which Joni apparently latched onto through intuition. Instead of moving directly from a dominant chord (in this case, based on G) to the tonic (in this case, based on C), an additional dominant chord is inserted: in this case, based on D flat. The reasoning behind this is, if I remember correctly, that a typical "resolving" chord progression in jazz is II--Flat II--I (chromatic motion) (in the key of C, this would be D, D flat, C). If you're in the key of C and playing a dominant chord which resolves directly to C -- usually a variant of a G7 chord -- and you want to extend the harmonic tension, inserting an additional dominant chord is an an effective way to do that. So, you treat the resolution of the G chord chromatically. So, if you were to resolve the G chord chromatically (thereby treating it as a II chord), then the Flat II chord is based on G Flat (or F sharp). But you want to insert a dominant chord -- so play a chord which is a dominant chord to the passing chord: D flat, which is the V chord in the key of G flat. Thus the term tritone substitution: instead of doing a simple V--I progression, you have played V (G) and then the V chord of the "flat II" (I put this in quotes because the II function of the G flat chord is only momentary) (D flat is the V chord of G flat). And G and D flat are a tritone away in the diatonic scale. JMDL Jazzers: comments? Corrections? Other interesting tritones (melodic tritones, not tritone substitutions): "Maria" by Leonard Berstein ("Ma-ri" is a tritone); and the bass line that opens the theme to "The Simpsons." Kay ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 15:12:30 +0200 From: John van Tiel Subject: Strains of Joni Mitchell coming in through ... Hello everybody, Although I've been a list member for several years now, my contributions have been restricted to off-list correspondence, being a tape tree branch and hours and hours and hours of reading and feeling at home in this community ( ... was I glad to read this morning that SueMac-with-the-Joni-hating-daughter has returned - Sue, you were my secret hero in the early days of the list ...). OK. I'm the one from Holland sitting in the corner listening. And enjoying the group discussions and threads (JC ánd NJC). Sometimes just as agitated as all other participants in the group fights, but always restraining myself not to start Kofe-Ananing. After 3 years I'd like to step out of lurkdom and share something with the group. Here goes. We, i.e. Liesbeth and I, just returned from one of the most mind-soothing holidays we had in years. We went to the Eagle Mountains in Bohemia (Czech Republic), rented a house there (one you can walk around, a real house) and just enjoyed the peace & quiet of the wonderful hillscapes, the sun, the absence of cars and a tourist industry (how long still?), the presence of trout streams and eagles circling high in the air. You cannot begin to imagine how healing the away-from-telephones life can be after an 'annus horibilis' full of funerals and tragic events. Especially Liesbeth suffered terrible and really tragic losses in the past 2 years. She needed a couple weeks of unwinding. We decided not to go to Prague or any other larger cities, and just enjoy the medieval market towns in Bohemia. I have this uncontollable urge to march into every bookstore and music store I come across ... and there are not many of them in little Bohemian towns. But in Hradek Kralove we pass a small bookshop/music shop hidden away in a corner of the old market square. There are no more than 200 to 300 titles in stock. But the first CD staring me in the face is Hejira, my desert island nr. 1 choice for the past 22 years. Hejira has always been so special to me, that I waited until it was released on CD before I decided to buy a CD player (1987?). No other music had the right to be first to be played on this wonderful invention. Seeing the familiar but still slightly magical cover photograph felt like coming home. When I left the shop, the old square was completely deserted. Just an old cathedral, beautifully restored facades, and arcades all around. I could almost hear the music in the air. Three days later. Liesbeth and I decide to visit another a 16th century town, Usti nad Orlice. Bohemia is full of fairy-tale towns of the kind where you expect to bump into a horse-drawn coach behind every corner.* We pass a small instrument shop, the kind I can never resist. Soft well-known sounds from the speakers in an otherwise very silent non-muzak country ... "This time. You went. Too far". Joni again ... The instruments in the shop were rather shitty, but I bought 4 sets of guitar strings nonetheless. Just to say thank you. Funny how great - in every sense of the word - the effect of Joni's music can be. For me personally it seems to be the soundtrack of the major events in my life. A Circle Game. We needed the peace of the holidays so much. And we got it. And once again ... there was Ms M. Just wanted to share this. Strains of Joni Mitchell coming in through the Bohemian woods. Are there people on the list who recognize this 'soundtrack' element? Do tell. John (The Big One from the Netherlands) *Usually they're Trabant cars, the only car that sounds like a coffee perculator - looks a bit like it too, come to think of it. NP: Quack quack quack quaaaaack. (Talk To Me, Don Juan' Reckless Daughter) «postscript» O yes, now that I am out of the lurkers' closet ... let me just say in public, Les, how much I appreciate and admire what you do and what you have achieved with this list. Why don't you reveal the date of your birthday, so we can 'shower you with gifts' from all over the world. Anyone else for this idea? And Wally ... the same goes for you. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 11:01:03 -0400 From: Linda Worster Subject: Re: Case Of You Question- Stop the Presses Janet Hess wrote: >I agree that drinking up "a case of you" can extend in all sorts of >directions. One night a few years back I found myself telling a friend that >I thought this was one of Joni's most spiritual songs. At the time, I >pointed to the tradition in Sufi poetry and mystical writings to refer to >intoxication with God and God's love as just that: intoxication. I can >drink a case of you and still be on my feet: Kabir, maybe? :) Rumi talks about this CONSTANTLY!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:09:34 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Clouds cover Ange wrote: >But I must say that my favourite album cover would have to be >Clouds....she's just beautiful, isn't she, and she does those self portraits >so well. I was sorting through some stuff over the weekend and came across my rolled up print of this cover. In '69 Reprise ran an ad (in Rolling Stone?) offering prints of the cover, without the words, for the asking, so I grabbed one. Anyone else have this? Mine is a little ratty on the corners - it was thumbtacked to various bedroom walls over the years. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 12:48:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - June 7 1978: Joni attends Bob Dylan concert at Universal Amphitheater in Los Angeles, with Don Alias. Future JMDLer Steve Dulson and his date, Lori Cheatham, approach Joni at intermission to show her Steve's pants, which are embroidered with "Ladies of the Canyon" geese. Joni thinks they are "nice". She was quite charming, but obviously wasn't really interested in extending the conversation... 1988: Joni is interviewed for the "Rock Arena" show in Australia - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:30:47 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: A Case of You Question -- Stop the Presses In a message dated 6/7/99 3:40:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, evian@sk.sympatico.ca writes: << and I just have to put your mind at ease and say that I have never even thought of "A Case of You" in THAT way, >> Thanks, Evian. Great responses to my quest for knowledge, but it's making me wonder if I have a Spagetti-O complex now! Maybe sometimes a song is just a song.. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:35:53 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: radio station LJC In a message dated 6/7/99 7:11:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, slarty@total.net writes: << This would be great for Wally's site if he could get them to play only Joni's stuff but they ask for a minimum of 25 artists. >> Do you know how many Joni songs are available on this program? Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:04:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Listening to my groceries ... It happened again! While checking out the leeks at my local grocery store, the joni-radar picks up an incoming song ... would you believe "Trouble Man" from the debut Kyle Eastwood? How cool is that! So I go find the wife, who's humming along, so I know it's not a free-form hallucination ... I think I'm gonna have to learn to shop one day at a time if they're going to be so cool! Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:45:21 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: 'A Case Of You' ~ Joni's Introduction TerryM2442@aol.com, writes asking ... >__________________________________________________________________________ >I've been dying to play A Case of You (on piano, yes it can work) but >need to know something. Do you lyric experts think that Joni's reference >to drinking a "case of you" goes beyond the surface of drinking up true >love? I mean, er, how do I say this...HELP ME..umm...is she talking about >some graphic sex here? I don't want to embarrass the hell out of myself >in front of my colleagues. > >Be gently now. Terry >__________________________________________________________________________ Terry, i guess you can find sexual innuendo in a 'A Case Of You' if you want, the same way some seem to want to see a penis on the cover of Hejira (where none exists) instead Joni's wrist. besides ... who actually drinks a case of THAT! here's how Joni introduced 'A Case Of You' during a concert at the Red Rocks Amphitheater (7-30-83): " We all know that song 'Hit Me With Your Best Shot', well this is kind of a song like that -- y'know it's like ah, it's got a slightly different approach, but it's the same idea. It's called 'Oh Darlin, I Could Drink A Case Of You And STILL Be On My Feet' " don't know if this helps or not. on another occasion Joni had this to say about her songs in general: " Well, you know, I think the danger is confusing art with the artist. The songs are really designed, and some are autobiographical and some are portraits. Even if they're sung in the first person, frequently they're portraits. So a lot is written from identification, much of this historically. But I think the point of the songs -- I object to a certain degree that the public is more facinated by the artist than the art form itself, and I think that the people who get the most out of my music see themselves in it. " JM, NPR Interview ~ 5-28-95 take care, - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 10:53:34 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: 'A Case Of You' ~ Joni's Introduction simon@icu.com wrote: > here's how Joni introduced 'A Case Of You' during a concert at the > Red Rocks Amphitheater (7-30-83): > > " We all know that song 'Hit Me With Your Best Shot', well this > is kind of a song like that -- y'know it's like ah, it's got a > slightly different approach, but it's the same idea. It's called > 'Oh Darlin, I Could Drink A Case Of You And STILL Be On My Feet' " ...I guess if it was 'still be on my knees'... RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:10:29 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: JTOTM (thanks David!) Kakki wrote: >I think she has always transcended jazz, even though jazz elements run >throughout a lot of her work. I think she has created her own genre in >music and it is not an easy one for others to replicate. David is to be >commended for his courage in taking on the project and executing it with >such style and excellence. > I remember my conversation with Brian Blade last year. He mentioned that it was truly a unique experience being able to play with Joni. I would think that it would be a unique experience for any jazz musician because of the transcending nature of Joni's music. What comes to mind right now is Blue Motel Room. Listen to Joni do the overlay background vocals in this one! Joni definitely has jazz in her veins. > >While some may see her life as being privileged and charmed, I do believe >she has sacrificed and suffered much to bring us her music. She could have >sold out years ago and rode along with what sold and was popular and had a >much easier time of it (at least on the surface). But she defied any >temptation to do that and stubbornly and courageously took the much more >lonely road of following her own heart and vision. > I, for one, am very happy that she didn't "sell out". I admire Joni very much for being true to herself. Heather ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:07:17 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Lyric Game Someone posted this a long time ago, but for newbies, there is a Joni lyric game you can play: http://www.thehub.com.au/~bchudso/jmgame.htm Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net http://home.revealed.net/Harpua http://jmdl.com/guitar/mark "This conformity factory is now closed!" -Homer Simpson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:38:46 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Joni Litho on eBay While checking eBay this morning I noticed that there is a signed Joni litho (no. 17 of 50) being offered with a starting bid price of $4,900.00 (eek). There is a photo scan of the litho and it is from a painting I've never seen before. It shows what looks like yellow wheat fields (paprika plains) and a grey, stormy sky of thunderheads. In the foreground there is something that looks like the tailight and back of a car. The overall painting is impressionistic but the images veer off into cubist style on the right side of it. The seller is also including the original canvas portfolio from Joni which has her name silk-screened on the cover. In dweems I buy..... Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 16:09:13 -0400 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: Re: radio station LJC I've only had the station since yesterday but so far I've heard music from only 2 albums. TTT and Hits. TerryM2442@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/7/99 7:11:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, slarty@total.net > writes: > > << This would be great for Wally's site if he could get them to play only > Joni's > stuff but they ask for a minimum of 25 artists. >> > > Do you know how many Joni songs are available on this program? > Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:27:31 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Case Of You Question- Stop the Presses Terry wanted to know: < Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V4 #246 Hello, I think my last post was listing five favorite albums. The reason I usually don't post is because I shied away after reading some heated discussions some months ago. Just the same, I've looked forward to reading the posts since late 1997. My favorite Joni albums are those from Miles of Ailes to Shadows and Light. My interest was piqued again with NRH to the present. I once described the excitement of listening to the albums from Joni's jazz period as they were being released. It's been great reading the posts about HOSL, Hejira, and DJRD. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 18:01:48 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Case Of You Question TerryM2442@aol.com wrote: > > > I've been dying to play A Case of You (on piano, yes it can work) but need to > know something. Do you lyric experts think that Joni's reference to drinking > a "case of you" goes beyond the surface of drinking up true love? I mean, er, > how do I say this...HELP ME..umm...is she talking about some graphic sex > here? I don't want to embarrass the hell out of myself in front of my > colleagues. > > Terry, The image works on many levels, but my first and continued impression is that it is a reference to beer, as in a case of, and still be on my feet. And on another level, isn't there an old poem/song that begins, 'Drink to me only, with thy eyes..." so it has that meaning too, of being deeply in love, of drinking in one's lover. Kind of sacramental in a way, as we gather to drink the wine. Any other ummm, shall we shall, Monica Lewinsky implications, if anyone raises that issue, follow Miss Manner's advice and look shocked, simply shocked, and be too speechless to respond. In reality though, I am sure that Joni had that implication in her mind too, a little word play with many meanings, but every time I listen to the song, which is one of my favorites, the sexual allusion is not the image that comes to my listener's mind. And even the sexual imagery here, on the level that it works, is really in the context of a deep love, so it is not dirty or gratuitous. I really wonder if any of your listeners will even not depending on how you phrase or emphasize the words coming off the phrase, "O Canada." So go sing it! (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 08:18:08 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: RE:re: Case of you question - stop the presses MG wrote: <> I haven't heard the joni/james version of this beautiful song......but I can imagine it would be very fine. I thought about Terry's question and must say that that thought had never crossed my mind. I agree with MG about the connection one feels when one is totally saturated in love for another......I say - ever touch a lover and the touch IS enough (no graphic sex needed)....all in the way they stroke your hair, touch your face, stare into your eyes. I'm lucky enough to have felt that overflowing "holy" love wine that I think Joni is describing. Was she actually writing about JamesTaylor in that song? Ange - thoughts... Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 18:29:42 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Strains of Joni Mitchell coming in through ... In a message dated 6/7/99 1:16:30PM, john.van.tiel@wxs.nl writes: << We decided not to go to Prague or any other larger cities, and just enjoy the medieval market towns in Bohemia. I have this uncontollable urge to march into every bookstore and music store I come across ... and there are not many of them in little Bohemian towns. But in Hradek Kralove we pass a small bookshop/music shop hidden away in a corner of the old market square. There are no more than 200 to 300 titles in stock. But the first CD staring me in the face is Hejira, my desert island nr. 1 choice for the past 22 years. Hejira has always been so special to me, that I waited until it was released on CD before I decided to buy a CD player (1987?). No other music had the right to be first to be played on this wonderful invention. Seeing the familiar but still slightly magical cover photograph felt like coming home. When I left the shop, the old square was completely deserted. Just an old cathedral, beautifully restored facades, and arcades all around. I could almost hear the music in the air. >> John, what a delightful story! Magical is truly the word. And I agree wholeheartedly, Hejira has been my favourite record for getting on for 15 years, and I discover new wonders in it every time I listen to it. The other evening, I was looking for a suitable quote to begin an essay I'd just written [quick recap for the uninitiated: I'm doing a postgraduate diploma in Psychosynthesis counselling, ie training to be a psychotherapist], the theme being my personal journey. Well, as Hejira is full of travel metaphors, I had a quick scan of the lyrics. I didn't find exactly what I was looking for, but I was struck, as I unfailingly am, by the sheer unadulterated brilliance of the lyrics. I've also determined to get out Mingus and give it a listen one of these days. Haven't listened to it for years. Thanks to whoever wrote about The Wolf that Lives in Lindsey" for whetting my appetite! Incidentally, the quote I ended up using was from Jane Siberry's "Oh My My". It's not ostensibly about travel, but the whole song, about which I've raved on this list many times, is a virtual spiritual journey set to music, semi-improvised, loose, organic, and - I'll come out and say it - a work of unparallelled genius. The lines below fitted in magically with what I wanted to say. "You will be born into a strange and desolate place. It will be called "the average home". The times will be restless and full of uncertainty. You will silently question this of your mother as you watch her move away. There will be no answer. You will begin the long process of shutting down. Your countenance will reflect less light and later when you look at pictures of yourself you will wonder." Now that I've finished the damn essay, I might start sending to the list again! Azeem in London NP Madredeus: "O Paraiso" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 19:24:21 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Case Of You Question In a message dated 6/7/99 5:56:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, revrvl@pathwaynet.com writes: << Terry, The image works on many levels, but my first and continued impression is that it is a reference to beer, as in a case of, and still be on my feet. >> Sorry, but it's wine, not beer. "You're in my blood like holy wine; so bitter and so sweet." Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 17:29:15 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: FREE JONI PAINTING From: "Hejira" Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:42:17 +0100 Really sorry about the subject line .I can't type and the following took ages SO I kind of lied about the free painting to grab your attention .HA HA SORRY. I was lucky enough to see Diary of a Decade, an exhibition of Joni's paintings in London about 10 years ago and the original of the litho that is now for sale on eBay was on show. Here is what the booklet that accompanied the exhibition said about it. THE ROAD TO UNCLE LYLES I 1984 ACRYLIC ON CANVAS12 X 60 INCHES The artist's use of multiple images to fragment and distort the picture space is again employed in two landscape paintings of her native Alberta entitled "The Road to Uncle Lyles" and "The Road to Uncle Lyles I" both painted in 1984. The flatness of the prairie landscape and the huge expanse of blue sky which forever hangs over this vast land is broken up into segments. In the smaller of the two paintings, the horizontal lines are continuously interrupted as if to break the dominance of the Prairie horizon as it might appear to us. The overall result is figurative although some of the 'passages' lean towards abstraction. Clearly recognisable images of wheat, sky and cloud identify the area but the calm of the landscape is interrupted, the images are spliced together with the picture and presented as distinct, individual elements which then make up the whole. We are still presented with a panoramic view made up of quotations from the artist's memory of a specific place and of a particular time. I hope you enjoy this little piece of info. Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 16:28:49 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Joni Litho on eBay Kakki wrote: > While checking eBay this morning I noticed that there is a signed Joni litho > (no. 17 of 50) being offered with a starting bid price of $4,900.00 (eek). Lucky Girl checking in. I saw this too and was quite suprised. The litho is being offered by the same guy I guy mine from (at a *much* lower price I might add). He told me from the beginning that he had a total of 8 pieces and he wanted to save one for himself. He gave me a choice of the only two he had left - - the one on eBay now and the one I took. He really seemed to like the one he kept better so I thought that was the end of that. He also told me he had quit his job and was going to make a living on eBay. I guess he decided he needs the dough more than the art ; - ) Anyway, I digress... The reason I was writing was to tell you how he got the lithos in the first place. He told me that in the 80's he was working for an interior designer who was doing some work for Joni. Kakki - help me here - what was her name? This must be the same one who is written about in the photo spread on Joni's house in Architechtural Digest. He also told me that the detailed painting on some of the doors in the house, which are in some published pictures, were done by Joni herself and that the decorator didn't like it and told her to stop painting the doors! Geez! It's her own house for godsakes! So this guy goes to Joni's house to deliver some fabric swatches for her to look at. He can't help but tell her how much he loves her music and all.. Apparently Joni is touched because she tells him to wait a minute, goes into a closet and pulls out a portfolio with 8 of her lithos, and gives them to him! And you thought I was lucky! What an incredibly generous woman she is to give those to him like that. There are so many sides to her! I believe all the pieces were different but all signed in pencil and numbered 17/50 with the exception of one pen and ink of the cover art from HOSL. This guy put two of them in cheap frames (the last two to sell) and them stored them all somewhere until recently when he started doing the eBay thing. The first one he offered there was what lead me to him. It was a baby/pregnancy/swimming piece that can also be found on Wally's site with other pictures from that era. I didn't see any of the others so I can only make an educated guess that they were also somewhere on the WTRF album cover. I particularly like her work from that period. - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 19:45:04 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Case Of You Question IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/7/99 5:56:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > revrvl@pathwaynet.com writes: > > << Terry, The image works on many levels, but my first and continued > impression is > that it is a reference to beer, as in a case of, and still be on my feet. >> > > Sorry, but it's wine, not beer. > "You're in my blood like holy wine; so bitter and so sweet." > > Paul I She is mixing her metaphors (and drink) maybe... granted the next lines are as quoted, but no Canadian I ever knew referred to wine as being in a case, but a case of Molsons or LaBlatts... that is what Canadians buy by the case! (the Rev) Vince (in a desperate attempt to make a save, listening to Canadian radio stations...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 19:45:46 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Case Of You Question In a message dated 6/7/99 7:39:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, revrvl@pathwaynet.com writes: << > Sorry, but it's wine, not beer. > "You're in my blood like holy wine; so bitter and so sweet." > > Paul I She is mixing her metaphors (and drink) maybe... granted the next lines are as quoted, but no Canadian I ever knew referred to wine as being in a case, but a case of Molsons or LaBlatts... that is what Canadians buy by the case! (the Rev) Vince (in a desperate attempt to make a save, listening to Canadian radio stations...) >> Nice try, Rev., but I ain't buyin' it. Wine is sold by the case, of course. And she was probably in California, not Canada, anyway. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:59:41 -0700 From: Jenaya Dawe Subject: Confessions of a Non-Poster OK, so I guess I do post occaisionally, but not nearly as often as the mood strikes. Today, I spent some time thinking about why that is. My first post was a question about Joni's possible opnions on abortion. i was listening to "How Do You Stop" and it was the line "How do you stop a baby being born?" that sparked my curiousity. While I realize that abortion is not necessarily the implication of the line, and I also realize that Joni didn't write that song, but I still thought it was a valid point/thread, as people who have given their children up for adoption, and adopted children, often have a wide variety of views on abortion. THAT was my point. However, every response to my post was basically "Duhhh... she's not talking about abortion." I immediately felt like an idiot and regretted posting. I went back to lurking, and only subscribed to the real-time feature when I started my new job, which allows me to spend plenty of time at my desk (though I can still barely keep up with the posts.) The other time I spoke up, about my experiences with outsiders in high school, generated a couple private replies that I felt were attacking and that made me uncomfortable. Again, I figured I should just keep my mouth shut. I certainly was not out to "prove anyone's point", or be an accessory to anyone's political agenda. I can think of two other times that my posts have been completely ignored, and lemme tell ya, it doesn't make a person want to ask a question or raise a point. I REALLY like being part of this list. I totally look forward to each and every post, I read them all (ok, so I skip the guitar technicalities), and I spend a good deal of time thinking about some of the more thought-provoking threads. Joni content, or not. Some of you I feel I almost know. I am eagerly looking forward to JoniFest (and some guitar lessons from Marian). However, I can't help but feel some amount of inferiority when posting. Sometimes I wish you guys would think of this list as more of a CONVERSATION. There are many things that are posted on here that one would never have the bad manners to say in person. Just as you would never completely ignore someone who was speaking to you. Unfortunately, the internet has done much to "casualize" discussions, to the point that common manners no longer apply. I personally think this is a goal that we as a group should to try hard to overcome. jen... not being terribly articulate, but doesn't really care...I'm goin' home!! Jenaya H. Dawe PlayNetwork Inc. http://www.playnetwork.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:09:14 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Case Of You Question In a message dated 6/7/99 5:54:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, revrvl@pathwaynet.com writes: << if anyone raises that issue, follow Miss Manner's advice and look shocked, simply shocked, and be too speechless to respond. >> Good advice, which I will certainly remember should anyone raise an eyebrow. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:12:00 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: re: strains of joni mitchell coming in thru... John wrote: <> I loved your description of the mountains and eagles and tiny old villages of your holiday....I could see everything in my mind and can imagine how Joni's music would fit those scenes beautifully. Her music really is the one and only sound track to my life...as I mentioned in the joni tribute concert review - every song takes me back to a special moment....even if it is just remembering the orange-ness of autumn leaves from my uni days, you know? It's makes me feel warm inside to think that her music can fit any landscape/moment from any part of the world - from the eagle mountains in the Netherlands, to the dry grassy fields of Bathurst (country town near Sydney, Australia)........oh I need a holiday! - preferrably to the Bohemian woods! Ange Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:19:19 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Strains of Joni Mitchell coming in through ... In a message dated 6/7/99 6:36:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AzeemAK@aol.com writes: > Now that I've finished the damn essay, I might start sending to the list > again! Glad you're back, Azeem. Joan Armatrading's playing in my area in August. Can't wait! Take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:26:41 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Re: strains of joni mitchell coming in thru... Ange wrote: << oh I need a holiday! >> I agree, Ange. You DO need and deserve a holiday. I hear the Boston area is very nice around the beginning of September.........especially the northerly part.......in particular a lovely little town about 30 miles north. I hear there will be some Joni lovers camped out for some sort of a Labor Day bash. I think you really should check it out. ;-) Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:35:37 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: FW: strains of joni mitchell coming in thru... Ashara wrote: > I agree, Ange. You DO need and deserve a holiday. I hear the Boston area > is > very nice around the beginning of September.........especially the > northerly > part.......in particular a lovely little town about 30 miles north. I hear > > there will be some Joni lovers camped out for some sort of a Labor Day > bash. > I think you really should check it out. > > I WIIIISH Ashara.....in my dreams! But I have promised myself that > sometime in the next few years I will definately get together my savings > and come over to the US and go to Canada...to see where "joni" began. It's > something I must do,and something to look forward to. In the meantime, i > will count on the list to vividly describe these jonifest moments (without > rubbing too much salt into my distant wounds) > > Ange > Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:36:10 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: joni genius Eric wrote: <> Well I hope one day everyone will "get it", because it would be a much better world if they did. :) ange ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 18:55:43 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni Litho on eBay Phyliss wrote: > > The reason I was writing was to tell you how he got the lithos in the first > place. He told me that in the 80's he was working for an interior designer who > was doing some work for Joni. Kakki - help me here - what was her name? This > must be the same one who is written about in the photo spread on Joni's house in > Architechtural Digest. Sally Sirkin Lewis and yes, she was the interior designer who did Joni's house for AD. > He also told me that the detailed painting on some of > the doors in the house, which are in some published pictures, were done by Joni > herself and that the decorator didn't like it and told her to stop painting the > doors! Geez! Wow, what little glimpses I've seen in photos of those painted doors I've loved! I had no idea Joni did all that work - it's quite a job. I can relate because I am also always fighting an urge to paint any surface in sight. Thanks also to Kevin for posting the painting description from the gallery exhibit. I looked at the litho again and feel like correcting my impression that it showed the back end of a car - I now think it may be part of a folding white canvas chair with wood trim. Kakki, putting the finishing touches on her "Case of You" handpainted wineglass for Jonifest ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 21:11:49 -0500 From: Lori Subject: $52 later . . . A few weeks ago I joined this list and cried for help to find another copy of the out-of-print Joni Mitchell Songbook - Complete Vol. #1. I'd lost my original. You sent me to EBay, where one waited for me...or for my $52. I felt guilty about spending so much I had my husband give it to me for my birthday. Today it arrived, and I'm a happy girl again. Lori Allen NP: Real Good For Free ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 19:12:53 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Fw: Confessions of a Non-Poster Jenaya, I've always enjoyed your posts very much and am amazed you received some snarky (I love that word and stole it from Evian) replies! When you get stuff like that, please try to ignore it and keep on posting. It is true that many of us do a lot of writing in our jobs and perhaps a professional type of style may seep over into our posts to the list. But I wish that would not intimidate anyone or put them off from posting! We can't help it that we are wordy and long-winded! ;-) Another thought I had about this thread - I've received a number of posts from lurkers who have never posted to the list and always been so interested and impressed with them. Some have some magnificent Joni and other personal stories to tell. I've always encouraged them to post but they don't seem to ever appear. Come out, come out - we want to listen! Kakki > ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #69 ***************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. 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