From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #65 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Friday, June 4 1999 Volume 01 : Number 065 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: intro/misunderstood lyrics [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: misunderstood lyrics ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: intro/misunderstood lyrics [M.Russell@iaea.org] Matala [Gertus@aol.com] Re: MOJO news [Deb Messling ] tape trees again [Deb Messling ] Re: that weird minor chord in joni's music [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: HOSL Demo Tape [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: intro/misunderstood lyrics [MGVal@aol.com] Re: misunderstood lyrics [Jerry Notaro ] Tape Tree 8 ["EUGENE LAZAR" ] Re: that weird minor chord in joni's music [Don Rowe ] Don't Interrupt ... misunderstood lyrics [simon@icu.com] MOJO Magazine & 70's Recordings by Joni Mitchell [simon@icu.com] Re: misunderstood lyrics [Heather Galli ] Tape trade [Bounced Message ] Mattala Crete & Carey Raditz [simon@icu.com] Re: HOSL Tape [Scott Price ] Joni/Carey/simon [Patrick Mead ] Re: Mattala Crete & Carey Raditz [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Mattala Crete & Carey Raditz [simon@icu.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #64 [Michelle Lempert ] Re: HOSL Demo Tape [Mark Domyancich ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #61 [Michelle Lempert ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #64 [Don Rowe ] devil's chord ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #64 [Michelle Lempert ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #61 [Michelle Lempert ] Re: Joni & Carey ["Kakki" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #64 [IVPAUL42@aol.com] RE: JMDL Digest V4 #240/ Album Covers [Doug Barrett ] Just Like Me [Susan McNamara ] Neil Young Tribute On Sunday! ["Peter Holmstedt" ] 1st Day in the Garden [AUDRE60317@aol.com] Re: devil's chord [Bolvangar@aol.com] Re: Mattala Crete & Carey Raditz [Ginamu@aol.com] RE: devil's chord ["Wally Kairuz" ] Fundraiser Update [Ashara@aol.com] Re: Don't Interrupt ... misunderstood lyrics ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: BSN from Alexander Memorial Colleseum ["Kakki" ] Re: BSN from Alexander Memorial Colleseum ["Mark or Travis" ] RE: Joni & Carey ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Don't Interrupt ... misunderstood lyrics [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: MOJO Magazine & 70's Recordings by Joni Mitchell ["Helen M. Adcock" <] Re: Joni & Carey ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: misunderstood lyrics ["Helen M. Adcock" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 03:18:53 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: intro/misunderstood lyrics In a message dated 6/3/99 2:31:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, TreyCozy@aol.com writes: << >> Does anyone know where or what the "sunset Pig" is?? Forgive me if this has already been discussed on the list! Trey np - 11o'clock news theme (yuck) >> A Sunset Pig would be a police officer on patrol on Sunset Boulevard in Hollywood, Cali-4-nigh-A. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 02:47:24 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: misunderstood lyrics Hearing it thousands of times no~one but Joni herself can tell me that she doesn't sing *STALE AWAY* instead of *SAIL AWAY* in Blue (live) on MOA! Do I need a hearing aid? E.T. NP: Fiction (DED) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:48:52 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: intro/misunderstood lyrics I've always understood the lyric as: "Your notch is liberation, doll!" I know of the terms anima and animus from Jungian psychology as referring, respectively, to the female and male aspects of the individual - i.e., all people having both principles to one degree or another. The song seems to deal with a relationship between a woman who is rebelling against an overbearing, patriarchal man who says things like "we [men] walked on the moon!" and "sex is your liberation, doll". Anima rising implies the female principle becoming stronger in the woman. She thinks of the millions of women burned as witches in Europe by church officials and feels anima as "a vengeful little goddess with an ancient crown to fight". The woman wants to leave, but is very attracted to the man in spite of his abusive behavior, and apparently doesn't leave ("It takes a heart like Mary's these days when your man gets weak"). So the sorrow continues. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 06:39:48 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Matala Kevin sent me a tape recently of a Joni concert from about 1971. Here's how she introduced "Carey":- << I went to Greece with a friend called Penelope. We were walking through Athens and people would shout out after us "Eh sheepi, sheepi Matala" which means hippy, hippy Matala - seek your own kind, there are lots of them there. So we showed up in Matala, me with creases down my trousers from the dry cleaners, which was kind of unhip. Penelope and I were sitting on the beach having a picnic. Penelope didn't like to eat her crusts and me, I don't like orange rinds so a pile of litter accumulated along with wrappers from Mickey Mouse chocolate bars which had trading cards inside. We picked up this pile of litter and followed the strains of the Beatles into the Delfini Restaurant and standing behind the counter was this great looking guy with a mane of red hair and a little gold heart in one ear and a gold loop in the other and a soiled grey turban on his head. I soaked the turban in a bidet in a pension in Athens and was evicted (later). This time we were strangers and I handed him this little pile of litter and said "what can we do with this?" With a really ferocious look he through it all over the floor of the Delfini restaurant - he was the cook there! So I liked him immediately - we became very good friends and I gave him 10 Mickey Mouse chocolate bars and I made him up this tune - Carey you're a mean old Daddy, but I like you.>> Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 06:48:08 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: MOJO news >And one more question, does anyone want to see and/or here about my Joni >autograph from a Woodstock party?? Yes, of course, we all want to hear! >I happened to pick up this Stuart "Dinky" Dawson person's book at a >Half-Price bookstore So who the hell is Stuart Dinky Dawson? >And a question, what's this tape tree thing and how does one join? A tape tree is a very efficient little mechanism invented for folks to share concert tapes and other musical rarities. It's people sharing music for the love of it, with no profit motive involved. When a new tape tree is created, people get a period of time to sign up, and then some magic elves create a hierarchy of people who record and share the tapes. The most recent tape tree is closed for signups, but if you beg very nicely, I bet one of the branch heads will make you a leaf on his or her tree. Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 06:51:44 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: tape trees again Patti, one more thing about tape trees: there is info about all the previous trees on the JMDL web site at http://www.jmdl.com/trading/ Tape Tree Three has a lot of unrecorded Joni from her coffeehouse days. It's a gem. I have copies of most of the trees and would be happy to copy a few for you, but you're better off if you can find someone with better audio equipment than me, actually. I used to be an enthusiastic sharer until I got scolded cause my equipment made crappy tapes. Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 08:16:45 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: that weird minor chord in joni's music Patrick said: <> Patrick, you're right and I think that both points can be brought out from the comment. btw I listened to a bunch of the tape trees last weekend but didn't catch this interview...(note to self: project idea: details of what's on which tape on trees...) <> That's funny because I always ENCOURAGE my Sunday School students to doubt, as long as doubt leads not to apathy but rather to the pursuit of truth...you know, all that "you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free" stuff... The "resolution" statement also reminded me of the Robert Klein bit where he says that people should all pass away with a harmonica in their mouths so when they breath their last it's a great resolving major chord! :~) <> And again, I heartily agree! The world is such a richer place for its diversity, for the Stravinskys, Mitchells, Gershwins, & Ellingtons. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 08:42:19 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: HOSL Demo Tape Kakki said: <> Just wishful thinking on my part, Kakki. (Although I HAVE heard from some of Simon's henchmen that there are rumblings of a TT#9) And I'm like you - the pure joy of hearing this Joni music takes precedence over protocol, IMO. Along those lines, I'm getting in the mail a copy of "Both Sides Now" that Joni sang in Atlanta. While I'd like to have to have the whole show, this was definitely the highlight. I remember that Paul was so excited that he used his cell phone to record part of it on his voice-mail at home! Anyway, it's not a whole tape worth obviously, but I'll be glad to share it with anybody who wants a copy - who knows, I may even have some surprises I can fill it out with...sharing music is such an ecstatic joy for me, it connects me to the world! <> Amen & Amen!! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 08:57:58 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: intro/misunderstood lyrics In a message dated 99-06-03 02:37:38 EDT, TreyCozy@aol.com writes: >Does anyone know where or what the "sunset Pig" is?? Forgive me if this has >already been discussed on the list! > > Hippie-speak. "Pigs" being the slang for police back in those olden days. She's thinking about California, so I'm guessing that the Sunset part is Sunset Blvd. in Hollywood. MG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 09:04:56 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: misunderstood lyrics You mean it's NOT "enema rising" ? Jerry ;o) np: HOSL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 08:29:45 -0400 From: "EUGENE LAZAR" Subject: Tape Tree 8 I know I missed the signing up of tape tree 8. Would someone please reply to me or suggest someone to contact. don in ft lauderdale ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 07:13:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: that weird minor chord in joni's music Patrick writes, on the subject of "profane" musical figures: > she reported that the church used to ban certain > chord progressions, > because the lack of resolution implied doubt, and > could cause the listener > to doubt their faith. This may be true, but the specific reference to the "Devil's chord", if I remember my music history correctly, is the augmented minor seventh -- the one that has that trademark "Arabic" sound. The strictures against the use of this chord in liturgical music go back to the time of the Crusades, which is where the chord was, in fact, first encountered by Western ears. Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 07:22:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: MOJO news pattihaskins@mindspring.com wrote: > > And one more question, does anyone want to see and/or here about my Joni > autograph from a Woodstock party?? Its hard to find people to share it with > that even remotely care as much as I and my poor husband has told me how > cool it is a million times and the cats, well, you know how cats are....... Welcome to the JMDL family, Patti And YES --- PLEASE tell us about the Woodstock party ! np: Wish you were here Brian === "No paper thin walls No folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:01:35 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Don't Interrupt ... misunderstood lyrics Susan McNamara writes ... >__________________________________________________________________________ > "Your notches liberation doll" is the correct lyric. > This is a song about a drunken brawl between two lovers. > The line before it reads: > > "A room full of glasses" > > and then he says to her ... > > "Your notches -- liberation doll" > > notches referring to the marks on a gunslinger's Colt 45 from all the men > he's killed. > >Translation: Don't tell me I'm drunk, bitch -- those empty glasses are > yours, not mine! And don't give me any of that women's lib > crap! > >Ahh, memories!! :-) > >>Re the "Don't interrupt..." lyric, I think it's conceivable that she >>PRONOUNCED what you heard, but in that event, it's still puzzling ... >>altho' no less puzzling than the words in the COMPLETE POEMS & LYRICS >>volume: "Your notches liberation doll." >> >>It's more than possible that this volume was not proofed visually by JM >>herself and indeed the book discreetly omits any reference to JM's having >>a role in its preparation. LAHM >__________________________________________________________________________ welcome back Sue. i'm glad you posted this information. however given the context, it's seems clear that *your* is actually *you're*. this IS of course, Joni's own explanation of the lyric (ie: gunslinger's notches). for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:01:21 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: MOJO Magazine & 70's Recordings by Joni Mitchell re: MOJO Magazine & 70's Live Recordings by Joni Mitchell despite what MOJO says, there's no reason to believe these recordings will ever be released. Stuart Dawson and Rykodisc *only* own the Tapes (ie: the actual reels). Kakki writes ... >__________________________________________________________________________ >Bob wondered: > >> This is truly exciting stuff, and Rykodisc will do a great job I'm sure. >> I don't know any better, but could there potentially be a problem since >> she's contracted to Reprise? > >I would guess that Rykodisc owns the rights to this material so it would >not involve Reprise. > >I am also salivating over the prospect of this material being released! > >Kakki >__________________________________________________________________________ sorry Kakki, physical ownership of the 'actual' recordings in no way carries with it any 'Legal' right to release the music on the recordings. Joni's contract is with Reprise. Legal Rights to release this music will have to be obtained from Reprise. Joni's approval will also be needed. that's why there was no Greatest Hits Compilation until she approved the "HITS & MISSES" project. in fact "MISSES" was her price for 'allowing' Reprise to release "HITS". during the 70's Joni Mitchell's recording contract was with Asylum Records. Asylum may well have 'legal' rights to any recordings from this period. this could also complicate the process. ultimately it's Joni's call, if she doesn't want these recordings released, they won't be -- they can't be. for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- >..............................Previous Post .............................. > >From: pattihaskins@mindspring.com >Subject: June MOJO Magazine, Joni 70s live recording pegged for release >Date: Tue. June 1, 1999 > >Patti here, long time Joni fan, new member of the list, been lurking and >enjoying...but just received the new MOJO mag in the mail and had to break >through my silence to quote the following article: > >HELLO, THIS IS JONI (headline): Lost Joni Mitchell '70s live recordings >pegged for release (subhead) A series of albums featuring previously >unreleased live recording by many major artists from the late '60s and '70s >is being launched in June with Shrine '69, a Fleetwood Mac set taped in >1969, with Joni Mitchell, The Byrds, Steely Dan, and The Kinks to follow. >The tapes, all high quality soundboard recordings from the archive of top >engineer Stuart "Dinky" Dawson, are being released by Rykodisc. > >"Everything is being authorized," Dinky tells MOJO. "I'm currently >negotiating with Walter and Donald for a Steely Dan concert recorded in >Seattle in 1974, one of the best live shows you'll ever hear. I've >presented Ryko with 300 tapes that'll keep them going for the next 10 >years. It's a treasure-trove. Mick (Fleetwood) did the sequencing on the >Mac set and he was like, "People have got to hear this!" > >The Joni shows date from a doomed mid-'70s Canadian tour. "Her life was in >turmoil," Dinky recalls. "She was going through personal stuff with her >boyfriend and legal things. They had to give back the money at one show >because Joni would only play one song-she didn't like the audience, poor >girl. But the Milwaukee show was real good in an off-the-wall way." Other >acts likely to feature in the series include the Mahavishnu Orchestra, Joan >Baez, Bonnie Raitt, Weather Report, Flying Burrito Brothers and Linda >Ronstadt. >****************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:06:46 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: misunderstood lyrics >You mean it's NOT "enema rising" ? > >Jerry ;o) > Now there's a "fleeting" thought! Ha! Heather ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 10:18:03 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Tape trade From: "Hejira" Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 11:08:23 +0100 Hi all I have a tape that some of you may be interested in. It is called Rock Master Class it was recorded in London around the time of Dog Eat Dog it has a long interview with Joni about her writing etc but best of all Joni sings songs from Dog Eat Dog kind of unplugged style at the piano or guitar and sounds fantastic very different from the album versions and I think better. I have sent copies to Simon and Les so these may turn up on a tape tree at some point but until then if someone will trade for a copy of the HOSL demo tape or other tapes I will be very happy.Also if some people want to get copies and circulate them that's fine to. Let me know Kevin. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:38:42 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Mattala Crete & Carey Raditz Patrick Mead writes ... >_________________________________________________________________________ >Ken and Frank, > >Though it may also be the name of a place in Egypt, the moon over >Mattala in the song is instead certainly a reference the moon shining >over the Mattala, Crete, along the south side of the island and on the >beautiful beaches of the Lybian Sea. Joni relates a number of anecdotes >>concerning her time with her red-haired lover Carey in concert recordings >from the early 1970's, and the area around Mattala and in particular the >Palace of Phaestos figure highly in those tales. > >best, Pat >_________________________________________________________________________ Pat, there's nothing in the lyrics to 'Carey' or any of Joni's concert anecdotes to indicate that she and Carey were ever lovers. while it's not up to me to lecture or be critical of others' posts, i do find some of the 'idle' speculation about Joni's relationships ... unfortunate. BTW: here's what Eric Anderson had to say about Carey: >__________________________________________________________________________ >I was looking out a hotel window on a rainy New York day, and it was very >evocative, suddenly it set a mood and an atmosphere, and i wrote a poem. >Enter Carey Raditz, one of Joni Mitchell's gypsy friends she knew from >Crete; she wrote "Cary, Get Out Your Cane" about him and he later became >my roommate. I first met him with Lee Clayton at a New York Earth Day >Be-In celebration but now he had just blown into town from Nepal. >I showed him the poem i'd just written, he studied it, smiled, stood up >and proclaimed to the room that it must be sung to music! I put my guitar >into open-E tuning and set to work. By dawn it was written into a song, >a personal spiritual anthem, but not heading up or down, just heading >further along. >__________________________________________________________________________ CAREY The wind is in from Africa Last night I couldn't sleep Oh, you know it sure is hard to leave here Carey, But it's really not my home My fingernails are filthy I've got beach tar on my feet And I miss my clean white linen and my fancy French cologne Oh Carey get out your cane And I'll put on some silver Oh you're a mean old Daddy, but I like you ... fine Come on down to the Mermaid Cafe and I will buy you a bottle of wine And we'll laugh and toast to nothing and smash our empty glasses down Let's have a round for these freaks and these soldiers A round for these friends of mine Let's have another round for the bright red devil Who keeps me in this tourist town Come on, Carey, get out your cane I'll put on some silver Oh you're a mean old Daddy, but I like you, I like you, I like you, I like you Maybe I'll go to Amsterdam Or maybe I'll go to Rome And rent me a grand piano and put some flowers 'round my room But let's not talk about fare-thee-wells now The night is a starry dome And they're playin' that scratchy rock and roll Beneath the Matalla Moon Come on, Carey, get out your cane And I'll put on some silver you're a mean old Daddy, but I like you The wind is in from Africa Last night I couldn't sleep Oh, you know it sure is hard to leave here But, it's really not my home Maybe it's been too long a time Since I was scramblin' down in the street Now they got me used to that clean white linen And that fancy French cologne Oh Carey, get out your cane I'll put on my finest silver go to the Mermaid Cafe Have fun tonight I said Oh, you're a mean old Daddy, but you're out of sight - ----------------------------------------------------------- for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 10:20:17 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: HOSL Tape Kakki wrote: >I've already received eleven requests for the HOSL tape >I ask those who will be receiving copies >to please share with other people and hopefully >it can work its way through the list. I'll make copies for the first five "real-time" JMDLers and the first five "digest" JMDLers who respond privately to me. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 10:21:12 -0700 From: Patrick Mead Subject: Joni/Carey/simon At 12:38 PM 6/3/99 -0800, simon wrote: >Pat, > >there's nothing in the lyrics to 'Carey' or any of Joni's concert anecdotes >to indicate that she and Carey were ever lovers. > >while it's not up to me to lecture or be critical of others' posts, >i do find some of the 'idle' speculation about Joni's relationships ... >unfortunate. To simon and all of the jmdl: If the conclusion I have drawn about the nature of the relation between Carey and Joni was inaccurate, I hereby apologize for any such "idle speculation." I do not have the time right now to re-listen to all of the many anecdotes in the 70-72 concerts that Joni tells about her days in Greece with Carey in search of a "smoking gun" remark about their relationship (which I think would be out of character for Joni anyway, how many lovers does she name onstage?), so I fully accept simon's assertion that that it was reckless of me to portray their relationship as anything but platonic, and I offer profuse aplogies to all who may now feel misled or offended by my assumption. I wonder how many others listen to Blue and assume there was a romantic relationship between Joni and Carey? Standing corrected, /Pat ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:55:26 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Mattala Crete & Carey Raditz In a message dated 6/3/99 12:39:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, simon@icu.com writes: << Pat, there's nothing in the lyrics to 'Carey' or any of Joni's concert anecdotes to indicate that she and Carey were ever lovers. while it's not up to me to lecture or be critical of others' posts, i do find some of the 'idle' speculation about Joni's relationships ... unfortunate. >> Simon, It seems obvious to me from Joni's choice of words that she and Carey were not lovers, but were "likers." Still, what else could one think was going on when she tells him to get out his cane? Do you really think she's talking about a walking stick? I surely don't. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:14:59 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Re: Mattala Crete & Carey Raditz Paul I writes: >__________________________________________________________________________ >simon, >It seems obvious to me from Joni's choice of words that she and Carey >were not lovers, but were "likers." > >Still, what else could one think was going on when she tells him to get >out his cane? Do you really think she's talking about a walking stick? >I surely don't. > >Paul I >__________________________________________________________________________ Paul, yes. as a matter of fact, she *is* referring to a cane (ie: walking stick). this is made clear in one of her 'Live Concert' introductions. for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:02:54 -0400 From: Michelle Lempert Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #64 re: sunset pig: for the longest time, I thought she said Sunset Beach! and I would like to know what a Rogue is. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:08:04 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: HOSL Demo Tape I can MP3 this song and upload it to my server. Let me know if anyone would like to hear it. At 8:42 AM -0400 6/3/99, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com wrote: >Along those lines, I'm getting in the mail a copy of "Both Sides Now" that >Joni sang in Atlanta. While I'd like to have to have the whole show, this >was definitely the highlight. I remember that Paul was so excited that he >used his cell phone to record part of it on his voice-mail at home! Anyway, >it's not a whole tape worth obviously, but I'll be glad to share it with >anybody who wants a copy - who knows, I may even have some surprises I can >fill it out with...sharing music is such an ecstatic joy for me, it >connects me to the world! NP-GMBABM Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net http://home.revealed.net/Harpua http://jmdl.com/guitar/mark "This conformity factory is now closed!" -Homer Simpson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:09:46 -0400 From: Michelle Lempert Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #61 One of my favorite things about Joni is the fact that no matter how many times I listen to some of her songs, they hit me hard every time, and often with a different emotion. Especially her songs from 'For the Roses'. I got the Joni Mitchell book that has all of her lyrics except for Taming the Tiger, and everytime I flip open the book and read the lyrics from a song i've heard a thousand times, I see something new in it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:12:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #64 > and I would like to know what a Rogue is. > Well, a rogue is an unsavory character ... a scoundrel ... or an intelligence agent working without the go-ahead of superior officers ... also a guitar manufacturer (primarily electric, I think, but I'll defer to the jmdl six-string oracles on this). Hope this helps. Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:24:04 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: devil's chord an easy way to recognize the devil's chord is to think of the chord that pianists played when the heroine was tied to the railroad in a silent movie. until wagner every composer used this chord to signify the entrance of the villain or the devil himself in an opera. i think the second chord in the introduction in "for the roses" is the devil's chord. also the chord that falls on "MORGAN" in the phrase "when morning comes to MORGANtown ...". if you're carole king's fans, listen to "beautiful" on the tapestry album: there are devil's chords galore there. wallyK Don explained: >if I remember my music history >correctly, is the augmented minor seventh -- >Don Rowe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:45:34 -0400 From: Michelle Lempert Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #64 oh, and in blue "I wanna be strong, I wanna laugh along", I thought it was "I wanna be strong, I wanna avalon" "When I think of your kisses my mind see-saws" thought it was "When I think of your kisses my mind sees stars!" Shellie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:48:44 -0400 From: Michelle Lempert Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #61 re matilla moon: I thought it was Map of the Moon! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:52:10 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni & Carey Pat wrote: > I wonder how many others listen to Blue and assume there was a romantic > relationship between Joni and Carey? I thought there was a romantic relationship, but I'd always figured that "Carey" was some kind of nickname for James Taylor and that it was about him. I was surprised to learn much later from the list that there really was/is a real-life Carey. Whether she "liked" him or "loved" him, it's clear she had a lot of FUN with him and he meant enough to her to write and record the song. Thought I read or heard something fairly recently that he is now in California. Wonder if he is on the list? ;-D Kakki NP: Refuge of the Roads ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:15:11 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #64 In a message dated 6/3/99 3:06:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lempertm@pilot.msu.edu writes: << re: sunset pig: for the longest time, I thought she said Sunset Beach! and I would like to know what a Rogue is. >> oh, come on now. Don't you own a dictionary? It's not a proper noun. From Merriam-Webster: Rogue: 1 : VAGRANT, TRAMP 2 : a dishonest or worthless person : SCOUNDREL 3 : a mischievous person : SCAMP Definitions 2 & 3 apply best to Joni's usage. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:27:25 -0500 From: Doug Barrett Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V4 #240/ Album Covers <> It protrudes from the road, which is strategically placed "inside" Joni. Perhaps this accounts for the "refuge of the roads." Doug ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:39:24 -0700 From: Patrick Mead Subject: Fwd: Re: Mattala Crete & Carey Raditz >> Still, what else could one think was going on when she tells him to get out >>his cane? Do you really think she's talking about a walking stick? I >>surely don't. Now, now, Paul. We mustn't think that way!!! Like a sinner who has found Jesus, I feel obligated to warn fellow list-ers of other waiting traps for idle speculation on this subject. Resist temptation and remain in the light!!! For example: the song "California" in which Joni sings of leaving the "redneck/red rogue" on a Grecian Isle to return home to California. We know that Carey was from North Carolina and that he had "flaming red hair and a flaming appetite for red wines" but there is NO EVIDENCE that he is the "red rogue" in the song. It could be someone else!!! Furthermore, some of you sloppy thinkers might hear that this person "did the goat dance very well, he gave me back my smile" and hear a possible double e'ntendre. Lift your minds from the gutter, there is NO EVIDENCE one was intended!!! And while she sings that this reddish person prepared good omelettes and stews, that she "might have stayed on with him" but instead returns to California "strung out on" the gentleman, there is NO EVIDENCE that Joni and Carey were ever more than friends!!! Nor should one ever assume that the third dulcimer song from the Mattala period, A Case of You, offers any indication that Joni and the wine-loving Carey were ever engaged in a physical relationship. Just because we are talking about a young Joni in the late sixties on the Greek Islands, and that she spoke affectionately of Carey for three years on stage, there is no basis to make such a leap. Voicing such any such conclusion is merely idle speculation!!! Next week I will debunk the common myth that one can conclude that anything of a sexual nature occurred between Joni and the subject of the song "Coyote" (wake up, there is no proof!). ;-) /Pat ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:45:57 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Just Like Me Today I updated my version of Just Like Me to the Rarities section of the JMDL Guitar Page. You can access it at this URL http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/rarities/ Any comments are eagerly welcome!! Take care, Sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:22:41 +0200 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Neil Young Tribute On Sunday! Open Mind Music, Innerstate Records & Inbetweens Records Presents : A Tribute To Neil Young Sunday June 6th 8:00 PM at the Justice League 628 Divisadero Street, San Francisco phone 415-440-0409 The following artists will be performing songs written by Neil Young : Sonya Hunter Matt Piucci of The Rain Parade Chris von Sneidern Steven Roback Map Of Wyoming Russ Tolman Pat Thomas Cole Marquis of The Snowmen Mushroom and others... with a special appearance by Billy Talbot of Crazy Horse performing a set of his own songs This night of Neil Young songs is in celebration of the release of the new Neil Young Tribute CD: This Notes For You Too! that features many of the artists listed above, as well as Neil Young songs performed by Lee Ranaldo of Sonic Youth, Richard Lloyd of Television, Steve Wynn, Bevis Frond, and many others. Available at : http://www.innerstate.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:56:07 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: BSN from Alexander Memorial Colleseum Hi everyone- It can be found at: http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/jm_bsn.mp3 Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net http://home.revealed.net/Harpua http://jmdl.com/guitar/mark "This conformity factory is now closed!" -Homer Simpson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 18:22:18 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Don't Interrupt ... misunderstood lyrics Regarding the "notches" lyric, I don't recall Joni ever discussing this song at all and I would be intrigued to hear her own words!!!! Is this from one of the articles on the JDML site, and if so, where? >however given the context, >it's seems clear that *your* is actually *you're*. >this IS of course, >Joni's own explanation of the lyric (ie: gunslinger's notches). > Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 18:30:31 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Mattala Crete & Carey Raditz Didn't Freud say that sometimes a walking stick is just a walking stick? I'm not sure that Joni is that heavily into double entendres in any case. Boom boom pachyderms excepted. >>Still, what else could one think was going on when she tells him to get >>out his cane? Do you really think she's talking about a walking stick? >>I surely don't. Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:22:09 EDT From: AUDRE60317@aol.com Subject: 1st Day in the Garden Britney Spears will headline July 4th Day in Garden. Who's she??? The newspaper says"17 yr. old whose "Baby , One More Time" debut recording went to the top of the Billboard sales charts in Jan.". No other annoncements for the future summer concerts atre being made at this time. Tix for 7/4 are $25.00.The concert will be followed by fireworks. There are plans for 10 events with a show on the 30th anniv. the week-end of Aug. 13 - 15. Keep you posted! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:51:53 EDT From: Bolvangar@aol.com Subject: Re: devil's chord Wally K. wrote: <<...the chord that pianists played when the heroine was tied to the railroad in a silent movie. ....also the chord that falls on "MORGAN" in the phrase "when morning comes to MORGANtown">> That's a fully-diminished seventh chord. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:40:33 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Mattala Crete & Carey Raditz In a message dated 6/3/99 6:31:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, messling@enter.net writes: > >>Still, what else could one think was going on when she tells him to get > >>out his cane? Do you really think she's talking about a walking stick? > >>I surely don't. I always thought she was talking about a walking stick because then she sings "and I'll put on my finest silver...", which always said to *me* that they were going out somewhere to have some fun. The song indeed *feels* to me more like a song of friendship than a romantic song. Take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 21:58:11 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: devil's chord David wrote: >That's a fully-diminished seventh chord>-- . wow, i think i can't tell the difference then. what i'm thinking of is a chord composed of tonic, minor third, diminished fifth [you're right! this is a diminished chord!], major seventh. how do you make devil's chord? wallyK > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 21:00:05 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Fundraiser Update So far, 29 people have contributed $956 to Wally's fundraiser, which represents roughly 5% of the JMDL population! We are on our way to 100% participation, but still have a ways to go. Remember the important thing is to **participate**. The amount isn't important. This fundraiser is about giving back to someone that has given tirelessly of his time and energy to developing the Joni Mitchell Home Page, and who now needs to spend his time and energy healing. Thank you to everyone that has given so generously, and thank you in advance to those that plan on sending a check. *******REMEMBER******* Everyone that contributes **any** amount to this fundraiser will be eligible for wonderful raffle prizes!!!! The raffle items are continuing to come in! Many thanks to "The Tinker's Own," who very generously donated a $40 Gift Certificate to Border's. Please send your checks and raffle items to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA 01983 Also, send any CD's and tapes you no longer want for a "Someone's trash is another person's gold" swap. Hugs, Ashara {who desperately hopes she is not sounding like a broken record} ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:25:44 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Don't Interrupt ... misunderstood lyrics > >Translation: Don't tell me I'm drunk, bitch -- those empty glasses are > > yours, not mine! And don't give me any of that women's lib > > crap! > > > > however given the context, > it's seems clear that *your* is actually *you're*. > > this IS of course, > Joni's own explanation of the lyric (ie: gunslinger's notches). Usually I am content to give Simon the last word but in this case I do not agree. Why else would the reference to notches be prefaced by the line A roomful of glasses unless the following line is in reference to those glasses? In other words: A roomful of glasses (subtext: You're shit-faced! What's all this about? Why have you downed so damn many glasses of wine?) He says, 'Your notches, liberation doll' (subtext: you can just count those glasses as more notches on your gun or bedpost. You & your emasculating independence & bullheadedness are what make me get shit-faced) And the bullheaded Taurean will never be convinced otherwise unless it comes from the mouth of Joni herself (and just maybe not even then....hey, it was a long time ago she wrote that song, right? maybe she forgot or sumthin?....) Mark in Seattle PS: What does anyone make of the reference to those glasses later in the song where 'a roomful' has become the specific number 'seventeen'? Since I was seventeen I've had no-one over me? Seventeen notches? Maybe it has no significance but then again.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:01:11 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Tape tree #3 If tape tree #3 is the one that has 'The London Bridge Song' on it (that everybody seems to love so much) then I am reasonably certain that I do not have Tape tree #3. If I send the required blanks & postage, would somebody be willing to dub this one for me? I would be eternally grateful. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:53:24 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: BSN from Alexander Memorial Colleseum > It can be found at: > > http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/jm_bsn.mp3 Thank you, Mark! This has finally spurred me to reload Real Player again after I junked it months ago during a computer crash! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:46:37 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: BSN from Alexander Memorial Colleseum > > It can be found at: > > > > http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/jm_bsn.mp3 > > Thank you, Mark! This has finally spurred me to reload Real Player again > after I junked it months ago during a computer crash! > > Kakki > And I also want to say thank you, Mark! This brought a tear to my eye. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 00:26:34 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Fundraiser Update >Ashara {who desperately hopes she is not sounding like a broken record} to me you sound like a guardian angel doing her job. only a brainless asshole could mind your reminders. wallyk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 00:40:11 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Joni & Carey i agree with kakki. why did i always think that carey was james taylor? i don't even know if james taylor was ever in greece. isn't there something in the fleischer book about it that might have given us the idea? wallyK np: i kissed a girl, jill sobule I'd always figured that >"Carey" was some kind of nickname for James Taylor and that it was about >him. I was surprised to learn much later from the list that there really >was/is a real-life Carey. >Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:39:08 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Don't Interrupt ... misunderstood lyrics Enough ENOUGH already! What Joni's really saying is: You're nachos- liver ate my doll. Sheesh, where's the Joni police when you need them. Terry In a message dated 6/3/99 9:27:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mark-n-travis@worldnet.att.net writes: << He says, 'Your notches, liberation doll' >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 18:08:07 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: MOJO Magazine & 70's Recordings by Joni Mitchell Simon wrote: >physical ownership of the 'actual' recordings in no way carries with it >any 'Legal' right to release the music on the recordings. Joni's contract >is with Reprise. Legal Rights to release this music will have to be >obtained from Reprise. Joni's approval will also be needed. that's >why there was no Greatest Hits Compilation until she approved the >"HITS & MISSES" project. in fact "MISSES" was her price for 'allowing' >Reprise to release "HITS". This has got me curious. I've spoken before about "The World of Joni Mitchell" - a "greatest hits" album that was released only in New Zealand in the early 70's. Would Joni have had to approve it, or did she not have as much control over things back then? Helen NP - Sam the cat - meowing very loudly, and biting my ankles to tell me it's dinner time! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 18:14:52 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Joni & Carey Wally K wrote: >i agree with kakki. why did i always think that carey was james taylor? i >don't even know if james taylor was ever in greece. isn't there something in >the fleischer book about it that might have given us the idea? >wallyK I've always assumed the same thing - probably for the last ten years or so - but I have no idea where the original thought came from. Maybe it's just because I knew she was involved with him around that time, and he plays guitar on the album? Helen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 18:19:57 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: misunderstood lyrics Eric wrote: >Hearing it thousands of times no~one but Joni herself can tell me that she >doesn't sing *STALE AWAY* instead of *SAIL AWAY* in Blue (live) on MOA! >Do I need a hearing aid? >E.T. >NP: Fiction (DED) I'm not Joni (what a ridiculous statement - I'm not even in the same country, state or city, let alone the ballpark!) but I've listened to my copy several times, and it sounds like "sail away" to me! Sorry! Helen ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #65 ***************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?