From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #39 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, May 11 1999 Volume 01 : Number 039 TapeTree #8 is ready to roll. To sign up go to: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- Join the Joni Mitchell Internet Community Glossary project. Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: gracias ken [Gellerray@aol.com] Re: gracias ken ["Ken (Slarty)" ] Dancin' Clown (article excerpt) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Joni from a to b to c to d, etc..... [MGVal@aol.com] FWIW, Bijou Phillips/Doobies [Vince Lavieri ] Re: FWIW, Bijou Phillips/Doobies ["Kakki" ] Re: Joni from a to b to c to d, etc..... [Ginamu@aol.com] Today in Joni History - May 11 [Today in Joni History ] Joni Mitchell on VH-1 storytellers [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Cherokee Louise [michael paz ] Re: Cherokee Louise [Mark Domyancich ] Re: After The Goldrush ["John Low" ] New JMDL Digest Subcriber [Hyatt McClennen ] Back from the dead and ready to talk! (was:Re: Dancin' Clown (article excerpt)) [Gellerray] Hi to all and Joni questions.... [Bounced Message ] Storytellers [Zapuppy@webtv.net (Rick & Penny Gibbons)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 04:12:45 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: gracias ken In a message dated 99-05-10 03:28:34 EDT, you write: << This stuff is great and almost better and more detailed than what's been written in Joni's own two biographies! >> it's true. and not only more details, but clarity too. So many of the names and places I had heard before but the sequence is in much better order for me now. It's a great relief seeing how it all fits together, and knowing how and when joni got from a to b to c to d, etc... r ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 06:31:20 -0400 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: Re: gracias ken Very little strain on my fingers. I used a scanner so I could save my fingers for other things. Sorry there's no more, that's about all that was in the book about Joni. Ken katej wrote: > Thanks, Ken, for all the excerpts about Joni's earlier life. I've read > various articles, but this offered some new details and I appreciate the > strain on your itty bitty fingers. Got any more? I can't get enough.... > > Curious Kate ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:27:49 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Dancin' Clown (article excerpt) Since we were on the subject, here's an excerpt from a long CMIARS article that discusses it in some detail. Sorry to take the bandwidth for those who've already seen it - it helps me to APPRECIATE it more, but not necessarily like it any better... ROCK 'N' ROLL CHOIR BOYS Joni Mitchell called me up," says Tom Petty. "She said she l had a song about two street toughs and she wanted me to play one of them. I said, 'Hmm, that sounds interesting.' Then she told me Billy Idol was the other one. I said, 'That sounds very interesting.' There's a trio for ya! It was casting I just had to learn really specific bits. I think she read the words to me - it's a neat little story." The story was "Dancing Clown," Chalk Mark's most unusual track, recorded after the sessions moved home to Los Angeles in late '86. Mitchell sings the narrator's lines in a song about a bully called Rowdy Yates (Idol) picking on a victim named Jesse (Petty): Although Petty and Mitchell's voices entwine comfortably, Idol's rebel yell is as jarring in a Joni Mitchell song as a thug at a garden party. Which is the idea. "In terms of a Joni Mitchell record, it sounds quite funny," Billy Idol chuckles. "My voice sounds like a bully compared to hers! I was in L.A. to do the Grammies a year ago. A day or two later she phoned me up at the hotel and explained the idea and I went straight down and did it. It was wild, really, because no one had ever asked me to do anything! The best thing was, she used some of my backing vocals on there. No one's ever used my backing vocals before, either! I really just sang my bits. I put in a 'Hot damn!' somewhere and then I sort of did my Elvis Presley impersonation over the rest." Mitchell also sampled some of Billy's howls and shouts, and dropped them into the song's fade. No opportunity wasted. "It really was great to meet her, because I'd always liked things like Blue and The Hissing of Summer Lawns, all that sort of stuff," Idol continues. "I think she's great. The wildest thing was, her and her husband really used all the sort of disco tricks, all the studio tricks, used sampling and all that stuff. I suppose for some reason or another it didn't occur to me that everybody's doing the same thing. You still have that Laurel Canyon idea of her, even in spite of all those jazz albums and stuff. It made me realize, yeah, we're all doing the same things. She was really in command of the session. She knew exactly what she wanted, it was just a matter of getting it. I like people who know what they want to do, then you can both work at it." Idol and Petty both admit having to sweat to match Mitchell's precise timing and odd vocal rhythms. "She's a brilliant singer," Petty says. "And a very capable producer. I was impressed by her. She and her husband Larry really know their way around the studio. I was having trouble with one bit of phrasing, I kept coming in wrong. She stopped the track and I tried it once and said, 'Is that it?' She said, 'That's it we got it.' She taped me singing without the backing track and used that." Idol had a similar experience. "She had to help me to sing it really," he admits. "She has a really particular way of singing things. It was making me laugh to try to do it sometimes. But once we'd done what we set out to do it was really good fun." At that point Idol suggested they get his guitarist, Steve Stevens, in on the action. At one a.m. Stevens was recruited to add guitar to what became an eccentric track even by Joni Mitchell standards. "There's a very wide range of opinion on that song," says Larry Klein. "A lot of people love it - it's their favorite song on the record - and some people just hate it. I was just with Peter Gabriel. He loves the record, but hates 'Dancing Clown.' The people who can't quite get in on that song just need to think of it as a little play. It's like a short film." "I'm singing all over the track," Petty says, "but you wouldn't necessarily hear it - a lot of it's harmonies, and through the whole album she's gotten other voices to sound like her own, to blend together. It's a brilliant record." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:38:26 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Joni from a to b to c to d, etc..... In a message dated 99-05-10 05:21:49 EDT, Gellerray@aol.com writes: > It's a great relief seeing how it all fits together, and knowing >how and when joni got from a to b to c to d, etc... > > This was very interesting to me as well, but what sets off the most musing is the small section about her pregnancy and the first few weeks with her baby. It is surely hard enough to give birth and make the adoption decision directly before or after. But to take that baby home, realize that you just can't do it - that's has to be a real heart crusher. The Gold Rush said: "the decision haunted Joni for many years." There's one heck of an understatement! The clues in her songs are mostly just reminders to Kilauren that she's not forgotten, but the whole ordeal must have had an incredible impact on her relationship with others - men in particularly. At what point do you share this secret with a lover or is it always in some sealed off part of yourself? What are the words to tell someone with whom you are skin-to-soul-to-skin about being alone with this baby, feeding her, smelling her, struggling through post-partum, touching her and finally realizing that it's just not safe and you can't do it? And the aftermath! The aching breasts going back to normal, watching the stretch marks fade away, waiting for your period to get back into a groove. Thinking of this makes me think of that line in Jackson Browne's Joni song, "Fountain of Sorrow:" "...took your childish laughter by surprise. and at the moment that my camera happened to find you, there was just a trace of sorrow in your eyes." Did people take this as just another intriguing part of her? Some ethereal quality that set her apart? We know that right from square one, she was let down by Chuck Mitchell. She has said that one reason for marrying him was to be able to have her daughter, but then he declared that he couldn't raise someone else's child. I wonder about that impact on her future relationships: always a cloud hovering over things? Always an obstacle to trust? We talk about her musical influences but it's this emtional influence that, to me, provides the biggest impact on the course of her art and life. Thanks so much Ken for providing the "Gold Rush" sections. Musing in the morning, MG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:24:20 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: FWIW, Bijou Phillips/Doobies FWIW = For What Its Worth got this tidbit from a story about Bijou Phillips, daughter of Jon Phillips (Mamas and Pappas) who is 18 and releasing album "I'd Rather eat Glass." The story is at http://www.bergen.com:80/yourtime/bijou99905063.htm She was a late bloomer who didn't learn to play guitar until age 15 (her dad taught her) but who has been a quick study ever since. As for musical influences, "I listened to Rickie Lee Jones, the Jackson 5, and Van Morrison -- he was cool. And I liked Joni Mitchell and a lot of Hendrix and my dad's music and the Beatles. And a lot of Patsy Cline, Billie Holiday, and Ella Fitzgerald." Glad to see young musicians citing Joni as an influence. The story about Doobies song Minute by Minute sung by Joni on Doobies tribute: the story was deposted from that website, but a rapper (first name Silkh and I cannot remember his last name) got the Joni wanted to do, Taking It to the Streets. Joni and Billy Joel were both wanting to sing Minute by Minute but then Joel backed out to produce his own tribute album, so that is how Joni came to sing that one. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 12:15:09 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: FWIW, Bijou Phillips/Doobies Vince wrote: > got this tidbit from a story about Bijou Phillips, daughter of Jon > Phillips (Mamas and Pappas) who is 18 and releasing album "I'd Rather > eat Glass." The story is at > http://www.bergen.com:80/yourtime/bijou99905063.htm Bijou and her sister MacKenzie Phillips were sitting right next to Phyliss and I during Joni's taping at Warner Brothers. They were very friendly and helped squeeze some space for me to sit down. They reminded me of happy little girls watching Joni's performance - they were just awestruck to be there and were giggling and giddy in their excitement. It was cool to see their lack of jadedness considering that they have probably been around a lot of celebrities in their lives. As for Joni covering Minute by Minute, I can't think of a better song for her. This was always my very fave of the Doobies and I think it is absolutely perfect for her. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 15:30:38 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni from a to b to c to d, etc..... In a message dated 5/10/99 12:44:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MGVal@aol.com writes: > Thinking of this makes me > think of that line in Jackson Browne's Joni song, "Fountain of Sorrow:" > > "...took your childish laughter by surprise. > and at the moment that my camera happened to find you, > there was just a trace of sorrow in your eyes." I didn't realize that song was about Joni. I always assumed it was about Jackson Browne's wife who committed suicide. Gina NP: Caramel - Nine Objects Of Desire - Suzanne Vega ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:56:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - May 11 1995: (from Wally's bio): Joni was in Washington, D.C. and did a National Public Radio show where she talked and performed 3 songs; "Sunny Sunday," "Loves Cries" and "The Three Great Stimulants." This show was taped [today] but wasn't broadcast until the 28th. - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 16:24:24 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Joni Mitchell on VH-1 storytellers Hey folks, My friend works for TV Guide and told me that Joni has already made a show for VH-1 storytellers. Has anyone heard of this yet or am I bring the *news* to all of you?? He will let me know when it will be aired so I will keep you posted. Does anyone know when she did this or where she did this at? I can't wait to see it. You all know how she loves to tell stories! Catgirl...getting the VCR ready and buying some high quality tapes! wooooohooooo! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 20:49:31 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: Cherokee Louise Trey wrote: "Trey np - Cherokee Louise (LOVE this song, but isn't is a BITCH to play?)" Hi Trey I have been doing this one for a while now and I really love playing it. I don't find it as hard as say Black Crow and Cold Blue Steel. It has an easy groove going that I get into and it is easy to play and sing at the same time, but some of her songs really kill me trying to sing and play at the same time. Best Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 16:57:47 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Cherokee Louise Black Crow? Man, that's an easy one to play! I did a second version that works a bit better than the one Howard and I worked on. I'll have to show you and Marian how to play it in September! Mark NP-Edie Brickell & NB-Stwisted >At 8:49 PM +0000 5/3/99, michael paz wrote: >I have been doing this one for a while now and I really love playing it. >I don't find it as hard as say Black Crow and Cold Blue Steel. It has an >easy groove going that I get into and it is easy to play and sing at the >same time, but some of her songs really kill me trying to sing and play >at the same time. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 16:10:14 PDT From: "John Low" Subject: Re: After The Goldrush I would also like to thank Ken for the time and effort put into the serialisation of excerpts from 'After the Goldrush'. Very interesting indeed. Does anyone know if Joni made it into any of Leonard Cohen's work? John. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 20:07:36 -0500 From: Hyatt McClennen Subject: New JMDL Digest Subcriber Hi, everyone! My name is Debbe and I'm new to the list. I, like Tucker, have been a Joni fan since 1969. I was at the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa and bought Clouds (being urged to by a few friends there)and was hooked on her lyrical ability. ("That Song About the Midway" still stirs me after all of these years.) Since that time, I have bought everything she has done. Mingus must have been over my head, because I never liked it very much. My favorite, to date, is the album Hejira. I was going through a tough time when it was released, and I found a strange comfort in relating to the words that showed the hard time that she was going thorough - as well. I also loved the album - Blue. I've loved so many!! It has always been difficult to find publications on Joni. I have "Joni Mitchell- Her Life, Her Love, Her Music " by Leonore Fleisher - which I found newly released in 1976. It's all that I have found that has so many details about her early life and on. I grew up down the street from Wayne Perkins who plays guitar on one (maybe two) of her cuts. (He also recorded with the Stones and Steely Dan.) He said that Joni was so gifted and he was in awe of her talents and her as a person. I went went him and several others to Joni's concert in Tuscaloosa in 1974 or 1975 (I foget the exact yr) and he went backstage. Though he asked, I didn't go backstage - afraid she was being hounded by too many people. She seemed quite nervous and anxious to me at that concert - but, of course, I LOVED the show. I missed the 98 tour, because (with a young son - Hyatt - and all that goes with that , I was not aware that she WAS touring. I have really beat myself up over not knowing. I could have gone to nearby Atlanta. Sorry - I have rambled on so much, but I'm just so pleased to be a part of the group and to have the luxury of sharing other people's opinions/comments on this very gifted woman. Other than a few close friends and family members, hardly anyone I know has ever heard of her. Debbe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 01:28:00 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Back from the dead and ready to talk! (was:Re: Dancin' Clown (article excerpt)) In a message dated 99-05-10 09:16:33 EDT, you write: << Joni Mitchell called me up," says Tom Petty. "She said she l had a song about two street toughs and she wanted me to play one of them. I said, 'Hmm, that sounds interesting.' Then she told me Billy Idol was the other one. I said, 'That sounds very interesting.' There's a trio for ya! It was casting I just had to learn really specific bits. I think she read the words to me - it's a neat little story." >> ah yes, i remember that article--in Musician, no? And though i have to say I don't always love "Dancin Clown"--I love the idea of it, and the writing. And I adore the spirit--the adventure, the way it further reveals her incredibly diverse imagination at work--all that it reveals about JM as a creator, and a completely unique songwriter/thinker/pioneer! And while we're at it--let's here it for Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm. I love that sucker--I love it more than Night Ride Home (the album as a whole i mean). Night Ride Home, which seems to be everybody's baby as far as the latter period goes. However, I love Night Ride Home and here's what i love: "first half" title track (of course), Cherokee Louise (one of my favorite joni songs ever), and Come in from the Cold (how can you not?). But still, what i love perhaps the most about Night Ride Home are its three final tracks: The Only Joy in Town, "My" :-) Dad's Cadillac, and the ever beautiful, Two Grey Rooms. Ray's dad teaches math Zero, I'm a dunce I'm a decimal in his class Last night's kisses won't erase Zero, I just can't keep the numbers in their place To me that is as good as anything (o god i'd better take cover!) Joni ever wrote. And gives good backing to her own claim, now that i think of it, that some of her better work is in the later stages of her career. Not to mention Borderline, Sire of Sorrow, Harlem in Havana, etc. As does the much-maligned CMIARS--poor thing. I love you CMIARS! ray ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 23:11:44 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Hi to all and Joni questions.... From: "M. Jessica Rankin" Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 18:21:24 -0700 Hello all, I am a newbie to this 'chat' list...however, I am not new to Joni and my love for her songs, lyrics, etc. SHE MOVES ME! I just wanted to share with everyone that I have certainly enjoyed reading your messages, bio bits, info of dedication, etc. since I discovered the site. I have been listening to Joni (via my parents at first) since I was about 3 (approx 1969) and have amassed quite the collection over the years on my own now. I remember her ability to move me even at such a young age (and ever since), and I must say that she has been one of my major influences in my own singing career (definitely in the top 3 as far as influences go). I relate to her very, very deeply--and her to me (although I haven't had the pleasure of meeting her--YET, but she must!). It is indescribable.... how refreshing to find a group of sincerely dedicated fans such as myself. There are few (if any) JM fans in my circle of friends---and I feel I am a musical outcast no longer! : ) Whenever I perform a JM song and my buds happen to be in the audience, they will come up to me after and say "Wow, what a beautiful song" and "where'd ya find that one?", or "did you write that?" and I reply simply: "It's Joni. See what you've been missing?" (Their enlightenment seems to be only temporary....alas) Anyhow, so glad I found y'all. Does anyone know where I might find a group of interested performers in the Portland, OR area that would like to jam some Joni (and others)---or who might need a singer with a similar vocal range and an undying interest in music?? I write lyrics as well. Any help connecting with interested party(ies) is sincerely appreciated---for music is my only escape from reality, and since I am new to the area (from San Francisco) my escapes from said reality seem to few and far between lately. Thanks for being here! - --notjenifer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 23:27:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Zapuppy@webtv.net (Rick & Penny Gibbons) Subject: Storytellers Catgirl wrote: Hey folks, My friend works for TV Guide and told me that Joni has already made a show for VH-1 storytellers. Has anyone heard of this yet or am I bring the *news* to all of you?? He will let me know when it will be aired so I will keep you posted. Does anyone know when she did this or where she did this at? I can't wait to see it. You all know how she loves to tell stories! Catgirl...getting the VCR ready and buying some high quality tapes! wooooohooooo! I soooo hope the guy wasn't funnin" ya. But I couldn't see how Joni could possibly sneak in an audience attending taping, without a JMDLer finding out about it. (and ya know each of us would squeal like a pig with that kind of news!) Was there enough left off the PWWAM video that could be aired for a VH-1 storytellers? I do hope you're right though, Catgirl! I'd personally rather see Joni do a storytellers than go to the next concert, cuz even if my memory someday goes south, I'd still have the tape!!!!! Penny ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #39 ***************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?