From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #36 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, May 8 1999 Volume 01 : Number 036 TapeTree #8 is ready to roll. To sign up go to: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- Join the Joni Mitchell Internet Community Glossary project. Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- joni trivia ["P. Henry" ] Joni trivia question (try again) ["P. Henry" ] Re: Joni trivia question (try again) [Brian Gross ] Dancin' Clown [Medric Faulkner ] Re: Dancin' Clown [RMuRocks@aol.com] RE: Dancin' Clown [Brett Code ] Obscure little references ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Joni trivia question (try again) ["P. Henry" ] RE: Dancin' Clown [Don Rowe ] Re: remove from digest list [RELLIEA@aol.com] Today in Joni History - May 8 [Today in Joni History ] Re: Today in Joni History - May 8 [Don Rowe ] Re: Obscure little references [djp ] Re: Obscure little references [Randy Remote ] Re: Obscure little references [Don Rowe ] Jonatha is comin' to town... [RMuRocks@aol.com] Dancin' Clown and the Problem with Hejira [John.Mitchell@ascend.com] Re: Dancin' Clown ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: Dancin' Clown and the Problem with Hejira ["Mark or Travis" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 04:28:56 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: joni trivia there should be a prize but... I was looking at the glossary project link at the top of the page and this came to mind... anybody know who the 'Wizard of Is' refers to? pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 04:41:51 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Joni trivia question (try again) who does the "Wizard Of Is" refer to? Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 06:57:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: Joni trivia question (try again) - ---"Pat Henry" wrote: > who does the "Wizard Of Is" refer to? Could it be Werner Erhard, founder of est? Does anyone know if Joni did the est training? Take care, Brian, getting ready for a wonderful journey west np: DJRD here at my desk on a rainy Friday in NJ === "No paper thin walls No folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 10:34:08 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni trivia question (try again) In a message dated 5/7/99 9:16:08 AM Central Daylight Time, briangross@rocketmail.com writes: << "Pat Henry" wrote: > who does the "Wizard Of Is" refer to? >> Pat, do you have the lyrics? Maybe if you post them it'll trigger some clues. Of course, Brian's guess was a great one! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 03:37:31 +0300 From: j.pukkila@pp.inet.fi Subject: RE: (jc) central park > Special JMDL Sheebaland correspondent Patrick Leader filed this > report from the front lines: > > < Jane Siberry will join band leader Vernon Reid and fellow guest > vocalists Chaka Khan>> > > !!!!!! > > Chaka doing "Hejira" live? Is it a possibility?!? Most certainly. A couple of years ago there was a small newsbit about Chaka in Billboard (if I remember correctly), that she would be recording with Arty and one of the tracks either would be "Hejira" or that she had already recorded that (I can't remember). I expected to find that track on "Come 2 My House", but it's not there. Then I thought it would be a B-side on some of the singles, but so far I've seen no singles... - --jussi NP: Alanis - SFIJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 11:20:07 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Jazz in Central Park Does anyone know where advance tickets can be purchased? Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 09:08:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Dancin' Clown Why is it that this little ditty just grabs me and won't let go? Bob Muller's just one of many who're gonna disagree with me, but sorry guy, this is an incredibly fantastic little romp. Attempting to recast it would be akin to putting Joe Pesci in "The Big Chill" -- and that just ain't happening. Give me Billy Idol and Tom Petty any day. And hey, just because SIQUOMB doesn't mean those long blonde locks can't be let down once and a while. Long live "Twisted", "Blue Motel Room", "Smokin'", "Raised on Robbery", "Crazy Cries of Love", "Ray's Dad's Cadillac" and the much-maligned "Dancin' Clown." Sincerely, Larry Klein (alias Don Rowe) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 10:02:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Medric Faulkner Subject: Dancin' Clown Chalk Mark came along at a time when I was seriously ill after an exposure to Dursban pesticide. The entire album, Dancin' Clown in particular, lightened up my heavy load. Medric Faulkner _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 12:59:07 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Dancin' Clown Don/Larry gushes: << Why is it that this little ditty just grabs me and won't let go? Bob Muller's just one of many who're gonna disagree with me, but sorry guy, this is an incredibly fantastic little romp. >> Truth be told, Don, it's got a nice drivin' little beat and is not totally without its charm. When I first put CMIARS on tape, it wouldn't all fit on a 45 min. side so I deleted "The Tea-Leaf Prophecy". However, the more I listened to DC the more I didn't like it. Rockin' beat notwithstanding, the melody isn't much, there's nothing really interesting instrumentally (Steve Stevens COULD'VE done a lot more, I guess Joni reined him in, or maybe he was just there as a favor to Billy Idol). Then you have the lyrics...ho hum. A little snapshot really, characters you can't really identify with (Like Juan & Freddy in "No Apologies). <> Me too, Petty on any of his solo or Heartbreakers records and Idol singing "Rebel Yell...here they just seem like Joni trying to be trendy and the feel (to me) is a sense of awkwardness that even they sense they don't belong. <> Amen to all that, Bro!! And don't let my opinion stop you from groovin' and dancin', clown! :~D And who knows, maybe someday, I'll be able to hear it with your sense of enjoyment! Bob NP: Dancin' Clown (in your honor Dude) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 11:14:56 -0600 From: Brett Code Subject: RE: Dancin' Clown Don's got it right again. I, too, like a little fun with my Joni Mitchell. She can do it all, and we can dance. I LOVE Dancing Clown. Don, is it too early to add Lead Balloon to your list, or has it not been sufficiently maligned yet? And what about the ever-popular Chelsea Morning? Brett - ---------- From: Don Rowe[SMTP:dgrowe227@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 1999 10:08 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Dancin' Clown Why is it that this little ditty just grabs me and won't let go? Bob Muller's just one of many who're gonna disagree with me, but sorry guy, this is an incredibly fantastic little romp. Attempting to recast it would be akin to putting Joe Pesci in "The Big Chill" -- and that just ain't happening. Give me Billy Idol and Tom Petty any day. And hey, just because SIQUOMB doesn't mean those long blonde locks can't be let down once and a while. Long live "Twisted", "Blue Motel Room", "Smokin'", "Raised on Robbery", "Crazy Cries of Love", "Ray's Dad's Cadillac" and the much-maligned "Dancin' Clown." Sincerely, Larry Klein (alias Don Rowe) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 18:36:10 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Obscure little references Kakki wrote >Finding these little liftings from Haley and the Everly's has got me >intrigued as to what other obscure little references Joni has made in her >lyrics. How about this one - from Shakespeare. I remember I jumped when I heard this! Thought you might enjoy the whole passage. Julius Caesar Act 3, Scene 1 CASSIUS I could be well moved, if I were as you: If I could pray to move, prayers would move me: But I am constant as the northern star, Of whose true-fix'd and resting quality There is no fellow in the firmament. The skies are painted with unnumber'd sparks, They are all fire and every one doth shine, But there's but one in all doth hold his place: So in the world; 'tis furnish'd well with men, And men are flesh and blood, and apprehensive; Yet in the number I do know but one That unassailable holds on his rank, Unshaked of motion: and that I am he, Let me a little show it, even in this; That I was constant Cimber should be banish'd, And constant do remain to keep him so. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 11:13:24 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Joni trivia question (try again) Bob, wish I did! as I've mentioned a couple times in past posts, this was one of the songs Joni took the time to teach me but, since she used the chords and melody from L. Cohen's 'Suzanne' and I happened to have the Judy Collins 'In My Life' album at the time and was more interested in adding THAT song to my sets, I only learned the chords and ran with it... I'm not going to give the answer yet as I want to wait and see if anyone else has the answer... (perhaps our beloved historian, simon?) and no, it's not Werner Erhard... pat NP: For Free http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff.html - -- On Fri, 7 May 1999 10:34:08 RMuRocks wrote: >In a message dated 5/7/99 9:16:08 AM Central Daylight Time, >briangross@rocketmail.com writes: > ><< "Pat Henry" wrote: > > who does the "Wizard Of Is" refer to? >> > >Pat, do you have the lyrics? Maybe if you post them it'll trigger some clues. >Of course, Brian's guess was a great one! > >Bob > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 11:24:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: RE: Dancin' Clown Making even more joni-fun, Brett asks: > Don, is it too early to add Lead Balloon to your > list, or has it not been sufficiently maligned yet? > And what about the ever-popular Chelsea Morning? > Not a bit -- "Lead Balloon" has been more than sufficiently pooh-poohed! In fact, I can't believe I left it off to begin with ... ditto "Chelsea Morning" - -- and as long as we're lengthening the list -- I shouldn't neglect "Barandgrill", "Blond in the Bleachers" or "Underneath the Streetlight". Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 14:25:21 EDT From: RELLIEA@aol.com Subject: Re: remove from digest list ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 13:55:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - May 8 1996: Joni is honored in Sweden with the 1996 Polar Music Prize. Read all about it and see a photo at: http://www.jonimitchell.com/PolarPrize96.html - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 13:06:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Today in Joni History - May 8 > 1996: Joni is honored in Sweden with the 1996 Polar > Music Prize. And who said dropping Bergman's name in a song wouldn't get you somewhere someday? Well, whoever it was, this'll show 'em. Don Rowe ;-) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 16:36:29 -0400 From: djp Subject: Re: Obscure little references At 06:36 PM 5/7/99 +0100, "Paul Castle" wrote: >Kakki wrote >>Finding these little liftings from Haley and the Everly's has got me >>intrigued as to what other obscure little references Joni has made in her >>lyrics. > >How about this one - from Shakespeare. > But I am constant as the northern star, In which of willy the shake's plays is the simile "like a ruby in an Ethiope's ear" used? djp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 14:05:10 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Obscure little references djp wrote: > At 06:36 PM 5/7/99 +0100, "Paul Castle" wrote: > >Kakki wrote > >>Finding these little liftings from Haley and the Everly's has got me > >>intrigued as to what other obscure little references Joni has made in her > >>lyrics. > > > >How about this one - from Shakespeare. > > But I am constant as the northern star, > > In which of willy the shake's plays is the simile "like a ruby in an > Ethiope's ear" used? > > djp Two more trivie: Where did the "slings and arrows of a rageous romance?" line come from? And who dubbed Shakespeare "Willy The Shake" in the first place, and why did he say he was called that? RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 14:15:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Obscure little references > Two more trivie: > Where did the "slings and arrows of a rageous > romance?" line > come from? Hamlet -- "whether tis better to endure the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" I think is the original line. > And who dubbed Shakespeare "Willy The Shake" in the > first > place, and why did he say he was called that? > RR > No earthly idea, much as I'd love to give Joan the credit -- was it Elvis Costello? Hee hee, Bob Muller's gonna get paranoid if I keep picking on him like this ... Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 17:41:23 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Jonatha is comin' to town... Jeanne says: << It's cool to see so many Jonatha Brooke fans on the list. She's coming to the Detroit area soon--I can't wait!! >> And she's coming to Greenville SC to play my favorite little intimate club - I should be able to get an autograph and some conversation. Bonnie Raitt's also coming to town, playing a 2500 seat concert hall with acoustics to die for... Looks like I picked the wrong month to save money! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 16:10:46 -0700 From: John.Mitchell@ascend.com Subject: Dancin' Clown and the Problem with Hejira Don Rowe wrote: >Not a bit -- "Lead Balloon" has been more than >sufficiently pooh-poohed! In fact, I can't believe I >left it off to begin with ... ditto "Chelsea Morning" I guess I missed something here, but why would anyone poo-poo Chelsea Morning? The melody is very well constructed, and the poetry is extremely vivid (FWIW, I have an "incense owl" stashed away somewhere). In fact, Chelsea reminds me of what I DON'T like about Hejira. I have played Hejira about 15 times now and it still bores me. But I have finally figured out why: 1. Most of the melodies are poorly constructed and lack the ingenuity of Joni's better work. 2. The instrumentation on all the selections has a dreadful sameness and grows tiresome fast. It is too heavily weighted in one frequency range and lacks richness. 3. The songs are just too damn long! They take way too much time to make their point and drone on and on and on... "Amelia" is like water torture. Maybe someday this album will click, but I doubt it--there is no "there" there. THOSL, which I bought at the same time, has really grown on me, though. johnm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 12:13:39 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Dancin' Clown Don wrote (and I agree!): >And hey, just because SIQUOMB doesn't mean those long blonde >locks can't be let down once and a while. Long live >"Twisted", "Blue Motel Room", "Smokin'", "Raised on >Robbery", "Crazy Cries of Love", "Ray's Dad's >Cadillac" and the much-maligned "Dancin' Clown." and then: >Not a bit -- "Lead Balloon" has been more than >sufficiently pooh-poohed! In fact, I can't believe I >left it off to begin with ... ditto "Chelsea Morning" >-- and as long as we're lengthening the list -- I >shouldn't neglect "Barandgrill", "Blond in the >Bleachers" or "Underneath the Streetlight". Why is it that these songs come under so much malignment? Personally I love them all - Lead Balloon nearly won my vote as most favourite from TTT (one song I really don't like is Man From Mars - even less now I know it's about her cat!). I agree with Don. She should be allowed to kick back her heels and have some fun now and then. God if she didn't, she'd probably be committed somewhere for severe, irreversible depression by now! The impression I get from this list (and it's only my personal opinion, so keep cool!) is that for a performer to be taken seriously, they're only allowed to produce "serious" songs! Anything else is dismissed as irrelevant! Helen NP - Screaming children next door (still!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 18:11:00 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Dancin' Clown and the Problem with Hejira In fact, > Chelsea reminds me of what I DON'T like about Hejira. > > I have played Hejira about 15 times now and it still bores me. But I have > finally figured out why: > > 1. Most of the melodies are poorly constructed and lack the ingenuity of > Joni's better work. > 2. The instrumentation on all the selections has a dreadful sameness and > grows tiresome fast. It is too heavily weighted in one frequency range and > lacks richness. > 3. The songs are just too damn long! They take way too much time to make > their point and drone on and on and on... "Amelia" is like water torture. > > Maybe someday this album will click, but I doubt it--there is no "there" > there. THOSL, which I bought at the same time, has really grown on me, > though. > > johnm > Please let it be known that I did not put John up to this. I did not pay him or bribe him in anyway. And I *will* rise to 'Hejira's' defense. Listen to the lyrics very carefully, John. Yes there are a lot of them but they have some wonderful imagery and poetry in them. And the music isn't as repetitive & boring as you might initially think. It is very subtle and there's not a lot of variety. But what is there is very nice indeed. This record requires very careful listening to catch all it's nuances. I do agree that musically the record does not explore a very broad range. I still maintain that Joni has done things that are much more interesting. But I would never dismiss it as having nothing 'there'. I do think if you're interested in getting a good picture of the inner workings of Joni's heart & mind, you will find it distilled into the songs of 'Hejira'. She has matured since then but a lot of who she is and always will be is in that record, imo. Mark the heretic > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 22:26:39 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Dancin' Clown Helen said: << She should be allowed to kick back her heels and have some fun now and then. God if she didn't, she'd probably be committed somewhere for severe, irreversible depression by now! The impression I get from this list (and it's only my personal opinion, so keep cool!) is that for a performer to be taken seriously, they're only allowed to produce "serious" songs! Anything else is dismissed as irrelevant! >> No not at all, Helen! I LOVE it when Joni's having fun ala the end of BYT with her little giggle, "You're So Square", "Raised on Robbery", "Why Do Fools Fall In Love", "Rays Dad's Cadillac", "Talk To Me", even "Coyote" are all playful and great! And I don't think anybody here wants a totally serious pensive Joni ALL the time, we'd ALL be committed. But she does set a very high standard for herself, and when a song like DC goes absolutely nowhere lyrically, musically, instrumentally, vocally, it stands out like a cardinal in a coal pile! (Not a St. Louis Cardinal, Don...) ;~) Bob NP: Benny Carter "Sunday Afternoon" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 23:00:20 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Dancin' Clown In a message dated 5/7/1999 10:31:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, RMuRocks@aol.com writes: << But she does set a very high standard for herself, and when a song like DC goes absolutely nowhere lyrically, musically, instrumentally, vocally, it stands out like a cardinal in a coal pile! (Not a St. Louis Cardinal, Don...) ;~) >> I didn't care for that song too much until I saw the video. she looks gorgeous in it. She is in her kitchen dancing around with her cat ( I love cats) and she is having FUN! I also love Man form Mars. When I found out is was about her cat, I loved it even more. I lost a cat so I feel a bond towards that song. There are not many songs of hers I don't like. She makes good choices of what to put on an album. I wonder what some of her other songs are like. Geez, I wish she would just come out with a demo CD or tracks of the songs in different versions..that would be cool. I am greatful for the tape trees. They give me a whole new bunch of songs to listen to because of the different ways that she sings them...OH YEAH!!!! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 17:52:29 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Dancin' Clown Bob wrote: >I LOVE it when Joni's having fun and: >and when a song like DC goes absolutely nowhere >lyrically, musically, instrumentally, vocally, it stands out like a cardinal >in a coal pile! (Not a St. Louis Cardinal, Don...) ;~) You've just said that Dancing Clown has no lyrical, musical, instrumental or vocal validity - something I find astounding, especially from someone who's also just said he LOVES it when Joni's having fun! There's seems to me, to be a huge contradiction in what you've just said. Again (and I stress again, this is only my opinion!) but that's why I love songs like this - Joni's having "fun" with a song. A song doesn't have to be serious to have validity! Sorry to harp on about this, but I just fail to see any logic in your reasoning! Enlighten me! Gotta go, heading out for dinner. Helen ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #36 ***************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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