From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #33 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, May 5 1999 Volume 01 : Number 033 TapeTree #8 is ready to roll. To sign up go to: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- Join the Joni Mitchell Internet Community Glossary project. Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Open Letter [evian ] 5 recent purchases [M.Russell@iaea.org] RE: Re: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) ["Eric Taylor" ] more from murray [katej ] Re: Re[MD]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Today in Joni History - May 5 [Today in Joni History ] Just a reminder... [Les Irvin ] Re: Artist (s) of the Decade / Joni Trivia [philipf@tinet.ie] enduring influence & topic: artistic greatness [Kleronom] Re: JMDL Digest V4 #200 [Kleronomos@aol.com] Re: joni this summer? [Drewdix@aol.com] RE: joni this summer? [patrick leader ] (jc) central park [patrick leader ] Re: (jc) central park ["Kakki" ] Re: enduring influence & topic: artistic greatness ["Hel] That all-important subject line... [Les Irvin ] Re: new e-mail address/how could I live w/o y'all?! [Bounced Message Subject: Open Letter > I had been wondering just how long it would take for the only-Joni list to > be compromised by people who just couldn't restrain themselves and keep > their NJC posts off the only-Joni list. > This post seems to be tinged with "you are all trying to stomp onto the JC only list".... However, it is most likely that we merely forget to tag posts with NJC. Yes, I know, there shouldn't be any excuse for this since we have been reminded to always put the tag in posts, but when a big thread of current events is occurring, such as the Colorado and War threads, and posting is quite heavy, and digests seem to arrive 2 at a time, it is an honest mistake to forget to mark the JC/NJC. As well, it is still hard to determine whether or not something is JC or NJC -- if we make a slight mention of Joni, such as in the influencial artists of the '90's, should this be posted to the JC list? If we mention that in the last five cds we have purchases that one of them was Joni, does that constitute Joni content, even though the rest of the thread doesn't mention Joni? I for one will try to be more careful to keep the njc on njc. However, I will post this one to both lists. Thank you for your polite request Deb. Your post is more effective than singling out one person for forgetting the NJC tag and reprimanding him/her on-list, rather than privately, with a snarky retort, which certainly has occurred in the past, and still seems to occur. However, if we slip up (which we certainly will), JC'ers -- be patient and remind us again -- privately and politely -- and we will try to be more careful. Evian np: "Faith" -- the Cure (not JC, but still darn good). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 09:36:10 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: 5 recent purchases Bruce Cockburn - Bruce Cockburn Night Vision - Bruce Cockburn XO - Elliott Smith Plumb - Jonatha Brooke When I Was A Boy - Jane Siberry Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 04:03:39 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: RE: Re: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) Trey wrote: <<>> Michael responded: <> No doubt Madonna. *The Artist Formally Known As Prince* needs an attitude adjustment! Yes, When Doves Cry was a definative 80's tune. So was the movie Purple Rain. But Madonna blows Prince away with Vogue & Evita. & Ray Of Light approaches Joni's finest. Meanwhile, *The Artist Formally Known As Prince* thinks he can get away with regurgitating past recordings.... U2 is definately my choice for the band of the 80's (seriously listen to Achtung Baby & call me in the morning). My choice for the band of the 90's is unquestionably the Dave Matthews Band. *Lie In Our Graves* & *Repunzel* restore my faith in Rock & Roll.... E.T. NP: U2, SALOME' remix ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 11:30:20 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Most inappropriate Joni song of the day That was so weird -- I had just listened to "Let the Wind Carry Me" (FTR) for the 50,000th time since I bought FTR last month and thought about this beautiful image at the end of the song, when they aired the first pictures of Oklahoma City/Kansas. Any JMDLer living out there? Hope you are all O.K., along with your families, friends and communities. Take care. Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 10:12:08 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) Mark sez: << Blondie didn't come til the end of the decade but they sure shook things up and helped rejuvenate rock when it was becoming stagnant. And they did it with wit and style.>> I liked Blondie OK but all they really did was "Parallel Lines" and "Eat to the Beat" - they were more "jumpers on the bandwagon" than they were innovators, using punk/new wave, then releasing "Rapture" when that genre became the fad of the day...I don't see them as leaders but rather as followers. The only exception to that is that "Eat to the Beat" was the first full-length album video, so they were pioneers of a kind after all. And the 70's were an incredibly rich decade - it may even be a good idea to split it up into a couple time segments, or genres. > > > 80's: Solo - k d lang > > > Band - Talking Heads or The Pretenders k d's first record sounded like rock-a-billy meets kick-butt punk. Shadowlands & Absolute Torch & Twang established her as one of the great singers of the century. David Byrne & Talking Heads were pushing the envelope and mixing all kinds of things up in the 80's. Remain in Light is an amazing hybrid of musical genres and Stop Making Sense is one of the great all time rock movies. Chrissie and the Pretenders put intelligence and heart into hard-edged rock and took it to another level.>>> Great picks all! Add to Talking Heads credit their incredibly creative videos (they were all visual artists first, after all), and Byrne's integration of South American sounds into the mix, as well as their side projects.(Tom Tom Club, etc) > > 90's: Solo - Lucinda Williams > > Band - REM Lucinda is a force to be reckoned with who defies categorization. REM are one of the great rock groups of all time and some of their 90's work is innovative & classic. Automatic for the People alone qualies them for the top prize.>> Or "Out of Time"...and their approach to touring where EVERY show is a unique entity, not a pre-programmed event but rather a separate artistic statement. Also their work with charities and causes and also helping other small bands out, and I'm sure I'm leaving out some stuff... And I love Lucinda but two records in a decade just ain't enough to qualify - as great as they are! All just my opinion of course... Bob NP: Elton John, "Razor Face" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 13:00:17 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: 5 Recent Purchases Hello All Jazz Fest is over and we made it thru unscathed. A wonderful time was had by all and there was two weeks of great music. I topped off my fest seeing Govt Mule and the Meters Sunday night and then Govt Mule again at Tower Records yesterday for an in store (for which I helped with the production + made board and room recordings to dat), Warren and his wife Stephanie, and Matt and Woody have become good friends and we had a good time talking about their new record coming in Sept. They have a new song called Bad Little Doggie that we (Louisiana JukeBox) may have a chance at shooting the video for them. Here are my five latest purchases: Jazz Takes On Joni Mitchell-David Lahm Live With A Little Help From Our Friends-Govt Mule CPR American Garage-Pat Metheny (had to get it on CD) The Chieftains Best wishes, Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 10:58:29 -0600 From: katej Subject: more from murray "The show itself was macabre. The arena acoustics were about what you'd expect--terrible!... When Joni got up to play, she was, of course, solo. There was a fair amount of din in the area from the people who were there just to be there. A common characteristic all audiences exhibit when they are served something up for free is that they tend not to pay any respect to what they are seeing. Maybe the mind makes the connection that if it didn't cost anything, it isn't worth anything. There was a hard core of tough Quebecois girls in the arena who were not impressed by her at all--to the point where several of them could be heard quite plainly yelling 'Fuck you, English blonde bitch!' It was a tough and seemingly ungrateful crowd. And, of course, the first stages of the James Bay project went ahead... It was with a bit of coke-inspired courage mixed with good scotch that I decided to call Joni in her room that night, after the concert was over. She was by herself when I called and said to come on up and hang out. For awhile, it was talk, talk, talk, and being a bit coked, I was fairly intense, I suppose. I did a sketch of her, which I still have in a book of loose creative stuff. It's a drawing of her with my old mailman's peaked cap perched on her head at a jaunty angle. At some point, I just blurted out 'Joni, I think I'm in love with you!' She looked at me for a short while. Not much was written on her face. 'Is it hanging you up?' she asked. I had a male acquaintance once who described something that had happened to him when he was being prepped for a hernia operation. A nurse had come in with the equipment for shaving the area where the operation was to take place. Try as he might to suppress the hydraulic reaction, when she began the process, he got a hard-on. She matter-of-factly gave the swelling appendage a light slap and rinsed him off with cold water, effectively putting an end to the incident. The way Joni asked her simple question had precisely the same effect on me. There was no mistaking it was the end of the issue. 'Nope!' I answered. I then went back downstairs to my room and wrote a desperate song about death and resurrection called 'Revelation.' It was a pretty good song actually." --Murray McLauchlan, Getting Out of Here Alive ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 13:59:17 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[MD]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) Bands of the Decades: Most Influential and best music. 50's Bill Haley and the Comets Everly Brothers Elvis Little Richard Jerry Lee Lewis [60's] Special mention...All the permutations of John Mayal and the Bluesbreakers Beatles Stones Jeff Beck's Yardbirds Jimi Hendrix Experience The Who [70's] Led Zepplin CSN&Y Pink Floyd James Brown Fleetwood mac [80's] Bruuuuce Bowie U-2 Michael Jackson The Police Special heartbeat...Annie Lennox [90's] Almost nothing of note except for those too young to have seen the real deals.Eerily reminiscent of the last music wasteland period in the early 50's when former Mousketeers and people like Pat Boone were stealing the songs from the original black artists and making millions while John Lee Hooker couldnt get a gig. Note people are actually holding Womens Music Festivals and celebrating Jewell and Tracy Chapman and not even inviting Joni Mitchell. When the Rolling Stones are touring and have an album in the Top Ten on Billboard and their drummer is 60 years old. Special note: in 3 years Chuck Berry will be entitled to receive Social Security. Sorry but the 90's suck. Last but not least an anecdote in support. Not too long ago I was a chaperone at a high school graduation dance. Except no one was dancing. these are kids that are 16-17-18. For the first hour after dinner no one is dancing. Much posturing, much laughter, some making out on the side BUT no dancing. Jewell, Morisette, Sheryl Crowe, Smashing Pumpkins, Rem, Hootie, head bangers, Hip Hop, several other modern popular rock bands. No dancing. So I stroll over to the DJ and I asked if he had any of that "old stuff". He looked up from his board and beamed. "You think this would work ?" It was that inimitable 16 year old Steevie Winwood doing "Gimme Some Lovin". "Lets try" said I. The experiment was to see whether or how long it would take for the kids to begin dancing. .By the time the bass had done its fourth lick roll the entire floor was hopping with kids who probably had no idea who the Spencer Davis Group was. The kids wanted him to play "that song" again. I looked into his bag of tricks and found Bob Seeger doing "That old Rock and Roll". The DJ took it from there and the kids danced to 30 to 50 year old songs the rest of the night. I even went out to my car just to get Raised on Robbery. One kid came all the way over to say "This new stuff is better to dance to". I rest my case. Marcel Deste. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 12:54:00 -0700 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - May 5 1979: Today, Joni, Jane Fonda, Jackson Browne, Graham Nash, John Hall, Dan Fogelberg, John Sebastian and others appear in Washington DC at a "No-Nukes" rally. A few days later, the LA Times published a review of the event, saying "At an impromptu press conference following the afternoon program of music and speeches on the Capitol steps, four of the musicians—Jackson Browne, Joni Mitchell, Graham Nash and John Hall—fielded questions about their involvement in the antinuclear movement. Deftly, but politely, they turned each question into an opportunity to respond with facts, figures and observations about the nuclear issue. Self-aggrandizement was not on the agenda." Read the full article at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/latimes790508.htm Also, pictures and a review by Harry Hennessy can be found at: http://www.jonimitchell.com/NoNukes79.html - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 14:54:51 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Just a reminder... Joniphiles - So far, the onlyJoni options to the list seem to be working pretty good. I appreciate all those who are using the NJC tag in their subject lines when applicable. Please continue to double-check your subject lines before you send - especially when replying to another post, as this seems to be where most of the non-compliance originates from. The onlyJoni subscribers and I thank you! Les ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 22:12:02 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Artist (s) of the Decade / Joni Trivia Kraftwerk should be on this list of influencers. As well as inspiring early hip hop they were forerunners of today's electronic music. Now the JC trivia. Which Bill Haley tune does Joni quote from ? Philip NP Basement Jaxx - Red Alert ><<<[70's] >Led Zepplin >CSN&Y >Pink Floyd >James Brown >Fleetwood mac>>> > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 21:31:07 EDT From: Kleronomos@aol.com Subject: enduring influence & topic: artistic greatness mwyarbro@zzapp.org { Michael } wrote: << What he {James Brown} and Dylan did for music was so different it's almost impossible to evaluate them against each other.>> Good point! I could NOT choose between Joni and Dylan for "Artist of the 60's" OR for that matter, the 70's. I haven't heard Jimi Hendrix's name in this context, but surely he had some serious impact in his short career. Gibran wrote "They dip their pens in my heart, and think they are inspired." Musicians reflect the music that had an impact on them, and use one another's work as a springboard to express themselves in THEIR art. Led Zeppelin's work was heavily influenced by (some would say "they ripped off") such blues greats as Howlin' Wolf, but their sound was awesome. They had made it their own, and then some. Such is music, sculpture, science, and philosophy. But there is a distinction with artists like Dylan and Joni, IMHO, who are so original that if you look behind them, you cannot trace the influence. Artists of that calibre are rare, and when you start handing out awards, you have to have a category. Innovators make up their own categories. Whether an artist is a creative writer, or simply a creative interpreter of someone else's stuff, the "prize" is the enduring value it gives listeners. If artists receive the recognition of awards, that's nice too, but I've always felt that folks like Joni and Bob were shooting for the prize that really matters, our hearts. topic for discussion: what comprises greatness in an artist? I submit that what makes an artist great is the fact that they communicate transparently. Joni Mitchell does that. Her heart is out there. She has a following (and a discussion list) because she can make you feel what she's feeling, or she so perfectly expresses what we have felt, or are feeling. What do you think? np: silence (hum of computer fan) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 21:52:52 EDT From: Kleronomos@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V4 #200 So I am writing to ask, politely, that everyone consider carefully whether deb thornton wrote: <> thanks, deb. The Joni-only list should be just that. To be fair, I would say that some people feel that they would like to discuss other topics, and feel a kinship with other Joni Mitchell admirerers. That valid to me. But to ignore the guidelines by not putting NJC in the subject line (I thought it had to be the FIRST thing in the subject line to be rejected from the Joni-only list) is definately inconsiderate. I noticed you got at least one apology. Let's see if they are repentant enough to remember in the future! I think it's so cool for our hosts to provide us with two lists to choose from! It would be nice if people remembered to play by the rules, so it works as it was intended. np: ".... comeonnow, you've got to try....if you're feeling contempt, then tell it....." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 22:18:43 EDT From: Drewdix@aol.com Subject: Re: joni this summer? In a message dated 5/4/99 4:29:34 AM, kakkib@att.net writes: <> Part of the rumor is that Joni's appearance this summer is pending Kilauren's due date, supposed to be around that time. I will get more info. Hope it's true, but let's consider it all rumor until one of us checks into the list with more. - --DD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 22:55:21 -0400 From: patrick leader Subject: RE: joni this summer? kakki enthused, nay, one would have to say bubbled: WOW - this is all new news! I can't wait to hear more. What is "Summerstage"? just as rumors go, this one sounds good. summerstage is the name of a series of free live performances in central park every summer, mostly in july. dance companies, mid-range popular performers, lots of worldmusic. nusrat played it a couple of years before he died. last year, one of the coolest sounding bills was dar williams and toshi reagon, which i missed. one of the best summerstage events i've seen was a blues afternoon with ruth brown etc. summerstage is also the name of the temporary space, a stage and bleachers set up in rumsey playfield near 72nd street. summerstage also presents about two or three ticketed benefit concerts a summer, and i bet this one would be, even if joni didn't show. annie lennox' live in central park concert, a few years back, was a summerstage benefit. still, the weak link in this rumour is kilauren being 7 months pregnant. hard to imagine this list of obsessives would have missed that. patrick jfp - sinead - never get old ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 23:05:29 -0400 From: patrick leader Subject: (jc) central park and on jane siberry's website NEW YORK CITY July 1st Central Park JONI MITCHELL TRIBUTE Joni's Jazz: A benefit for the Central Park SummerStage outdoor concert series. In a special concert to honor the music of Joni Mitchell, Jane Siberry will join band leader Vernon Reid and fellow guest vocalists Chaka Khan, Joy Askew, Holly Cole, Eric Anderson, John Kelly, Duncan Sheik, PM Dawn, and Jon Hendricks with Annie Ross, among others. The song list will include pieces from 'Court and Spark' through 'Mingus.' Proceeds will support the Central Park SummerStage series, which enters its 14th year in 1999. Jane will be doing one or two songs. Tickets: A limited number of tickets will be available for donation only. Details coming soon on how to obtain tickets. PLEASE NOTE: Unless otherwise specified, tickets for performances are NOT sold through SHEEBA. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 20:28:40 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: (jc) central park Thank you Patrick! Ashara dear, can we possibly move Jonifest up to 4th of July weekend ;-D Kakki, so many concerts and parties to attend, so little time AHHHHH! > NEW YORK CITY > July 1st > Central Park > JONI MITCHELL TRIBUTE > Joni's Jazz: A benefit for the Central Park SummerStage outdoor concert > series. > In a special concert to honor the music of Joni Mitchell, ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 15:51:16 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: enduring influence & topic: artistic greatness >topic for discussion: what comprises greatness in an artist? I submit that >what makes an artist great is the fact that they communicate transparently. >Joni Mitchell does that. Her heart is out there. She has a following (and a >discussion list) because she can make you feel what she's feeling, or she so >perfectly expresses what we have felt, or are feeling. What do you think? I've always thought a "great artist" is someone who puts the heart and soul into their music. I always think of Joni in terms of her comments at the Isle of Wight festival "we've got our lives wrapped up in it (the music)", which sums things up quite well. Another example is the CSN box-set. For nearly every song, they've described the circumstances of how it got written, and most of them were in direct response to something that happened to them that day. For example, Neil Young seeing the copy of Life magazine with the Kent State photos, and sitting down in silence, then picking up a guitar and 20 minutes later, there was "Ohio". Recorded the next day, and released within the week! Or Graham Nask breaking up with Joni, and writing "Simple Man" the next day, and performing it for the first time that evening, with Joni in the audience! I've been on this band-wagon before (someone stop me!) but it's the reason I'll always prefer singer-songwriters to those that "cover" songs (and I stress the word "prefer" - I don't want to start that argument again)! Anyway, I better stop before my keyboard gets me in trouble! Helen NP - still Jonatha Brooke - 10c wings (and still just as good!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 23:43:02 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: That all-important subject line... At 5/4/99 07:52 PM , Kleronomos@aol.com wrote: >But to ignore the guidelines by not putting NJC in the subject >line (I thought it had to be the FIRST thing in the subject line to be >rejected from the Joni-only list) is definately inconsiderate. Actually... it can be anywhere in the subject line. ANY occurence of those three letters in a row will ban the post from the onlyJoni options. >I think it's so cool for our hosts to provide us with two lists to choose >from! It would be nice if people remembered to play by the rules, so it >works as it was intended. Thanks and thanks... I couldn't have said it better myself! Les NP - Jim Hall and Pat Metheny ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 23:58:03 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: new e-mail address/how could I live w/o y'all?! From: "Deborah Finora" Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 00:47:08 -0400 This is only my second post; my first one, some of you may remember, was a somewhat cynical one, decrying the use of the digest as a soapbox for diatribes on what it meant to be pc. I received some very nice mail from other listers, encouraging me not to give up the list, and to keep the faith, giving me helpful advice on how to avoid incurring the wrath of other subscribers who have spilled their lives over the waves like ink in a diary , how to sift through the NJC mail and how to list mine (should I decide to try again) as such, which I totally misinterpreted..duh. It was not long after that that the subject of therapy caught my eye, and as I have been in therapy for a number of years, I really latched onto that subject. I started thinking, "Hmm, maybe they've got a point with all these motley conversations...". Then, Kosovo became a leading conversation starter and I was grateful for the many varied opinions and the idea, that if the joni-digest could represent a microcosm, there could be dialogue among even the most opposite viewpoints. And then, the sorrow of Littleton, and I wept with all of you, wondering amid frightening confusion and some sort of weird, misplaced guilt, that we may have desensitized ourselves to the reality of what America has become. And now, Oklahoma City, with a new disaster--no, not new, just different...and it's not that I've forgotten Joni (no, never that!), but you provide so much more than "hey, it's Hejira or nothing!" or "no, it's Blue!" or "nothing can beat C&S!"...the old address is gone, so is the opinion that global/national/"irrelevant topics" have no business among the subjects discussed. I wanted to get my e-mail address re-submitted so I would miss no more diatribes, hissy-fits, arguments, sincere outpourings, jokes (loved the Zsa Zsa Gabor reference--was it Wally?), updates, and oh yes, more news about um, Joni! Isn't she great?! Now, remind me, what does "np" mean? It took me a few days, to realize what "IMO" and "IMHO" meant! This is the hardest part to me--translating all the little codes and references; I'm still so new at this... But since I have nothing more to add right now other than "Thank you all for sharing your insights, anecdotes, and lives!", I'll leave with the hope that, tomorrow, there will be another volume for me to peruse and enjoy! Thanks again! Deborah Finora (Is it possible to get the issues that were bumped? I miss them! And, besides, I want to know what you guys were talking about!!) ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #33 ***************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?