From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #19 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, April 22 1999 Volume 01 : Number 019 Join the Joni Mitchell Internet Community Glossary project. Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- more Joni guitar questions [CarltonCT@aol.com] PWWAM in UK? JM Live in UK? [Bounced Message ] RE: Re: VLJC colorado [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] Re: PWWAM in UK? JM Live in UK? ["Winfried Hühn" ] re: Colorado (vljc) [Catherine Turley ] Court and Spark .. dos pesos ["Don Rowe" ] Re: more Joni guitar questions [Mark Domyancich ] Re: "The Second Coming" vs. "Slouching.." [Debra Kaufman ] jaco [Bounced Message ] 12-strings and guns [Louis Lynch ] Re: Trouble Child - Crosby? [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: "The Second Coming" vs. "Slouching.." ["Winfried Hühn" ] Re: Colorado, the hard truth. [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Trouble Child - Crosby? [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Court and Spark [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: TTT songbook, clicking noises on Blue [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Joni's fingernails [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Re[4]: Court & Spark as a song cycle (Long & Twisted) [CaTGirl627@aol] Re: Colorado, the hard truth. [catman ] Re: Re[4]: Court & Spark as a song cycle (Long & Twisted) [RMuRocks@aol.c] Re: Joni & Jackson Browne (i'm Not To Blame) ["Mark or Travis" Subject: PWWAM in UK? JM Live in UK? From: "Iain Mackenzie" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:36:47 +0100 Does anyone know if PWWAM is available in the UK? Also, is there any chance of Joni ever peforming live in the UK? Thanks, Iain ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:45:39 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: Re: VLJC colorado Kakki wrote: <<>> Off the very tip-top of my head, it seems that most of the widely reported incidents of mass school violence over the past two years have been in economically comfortable, predominately white communities. Obviously this is still a little zygote of a thought at this point, but I wonder how much the soullessness of suburban American culture is to blame? No doubt there's plenty of violence in the inner-city among youth with the kinds of challenges we're used to talking about, but I don't remember ever hearing anything approaching the, well, mindlessness of any of these incidents in that type of environment. Is it possible that the suburbs help drive some people crazy? Is sheltering an even worse child-rearing strategy than I thought? These incidents really make you wonder. Hissing of summer lawns, indeed. - --Michael NP: Steely Dan, _Pretzel Logic_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:00:40 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: PWWAM in UK? JM Live in UK? > From: "Iain Mackenzie" > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:36:47 +0100 > > Does anyone know if PWWAM is available in the UK? > Also, is there any chance of Joni ever peforming live in the UK? > Thanks, > Iain First question: Yes it is! I bought my copy at the Virgin Megastore in Ipswitch (along with "Star Trek -- The Complete Borg Collection"). The price was 12.99. Second question: Let's all visit a Gypsy, pay 18 Euros and lite a candle for our Joni-luck! :-) Winfried, Goettingen, Germany ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:40:00 -0700 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - April 22 1974: Joni performs at the New Victoria Theater in London - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:36:16 -0700 From: Catherine Turley Subject: re: Colorado (vljc) After endlessly watching cable news reports from Colorado much of the night (was up with a sick child) and this morning's digest with related posts I wanted to weigh in with a couple of thoughts-- I agree with Winfreid and Marian on the problems of the gun culture in the US. But while it is a serious problem, I think blaming the gun culture doesn't really address the root problems and causes of this kind of violence. There have been school shootings elsewhere (in Australia, if I'm remembering correctly) and also a terrible incident recently in Scotland. Whether its school or work place or terrorist violence--IRA bombs in England or a machine gun attack in the Vienna airport several years ago--I don't know of any place that's immune. And even though school shootings are particularly shocking I see all those sorts of violence as connected evils. I also feel that blaming violence in movies and tv and music contributing to the these events media is valid also only in a limited way--there is a far greater sickness behind our problems--Bigger beasts abound, if I may quote Joni--"Indian chiefs with their old beliefs know /the balance is undone--crazy ions--/ you can feel it out in traffic; /everyone hates everyone!" I teach history courses at a large community college, and last night my students in my modern Western Civilization course wanted to talk about what had happened in Colorado. It was very uncomfortable to try to moderate such a discussion, since several of my student rather explicitly wanted me to provide perspective--help them make sense of the situation. I don't know who can. And it was eerie to try to segue from that discussion to the night's lecture about Nazi Germany and the road to WWII, since yesterday was Hitler's birthday, which may well have been why those boys chose that day to go on their rampage, since they were obsessed with Nazi Germany. We have these models of tremendous evil in action and belief abroad in our cultures, (like the Nazis and Stalin and what's happened in Rwanda recently and on and on) and we have collectively failed to address the implications of this, as civilizations, as smaller societies, as communities, as teachers, as parents--particularly as parents, as Kakki and Debra pointed out. I can't imagine letting your kids drift so. And sure it certainly is painful to be ostracized as an adolescent, but I am reminded of a book I read a couple years ago by the excellent child psychologist Alice Miller (who Colin brought up recently on the list), and one very interesting point she made was that children can usually bear and successfully emerge from terrible conditions of trauma and hardship and abuse, provided that they have some loving and sympathetic person, usually an adult, who is able to help them experience (rather than repress) their feelings and then provide comfort and perspective. But if that kind of guidance and support is missing then all kinds of pathology and deviance can develop. Most folks would sympathize with being treated badly by the athlete clique in school, but its not a capital offense, and seems as if there was no one providing perspective and guidance for those boys. I know those boys must have had some horrific lack in their lives to have allowed them do what they did. Didn't they have anyone in their lives to provide even minimal perspective and guidance? Well, I haven't meant to go on. I'm groggy and not saying what I want to very well, and more than anything feel sick sick sick about this. What has really personalized this for me is an unconfirmed report that three of the girls who were killed were Mormons. For the last six years I have volunteered in my local Mormon congregation working with young girls exactly the same age as those who lost their lives--I feel like I have some insight into what their lives might have been like, at least a little more than superficially. I can only imagine how devastating it would be to lose one of "my" girls like this, let alone two or three or fifteen. Oh, their families . . . Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:48:32 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Court and Spark .. dos pesos Never let it be said that we on the jmdl "shy away" from discussing *any* Joni album -- in fact, all the input and analysis of C&S has been a real treat. The great thing about Joni material is that even the light extemporania (my own view of C&S), "shows us a deeper meaning." This has been true from BYT through Crazy Cries, both of which Joni relentlessly refers to as "ditties." Well, if truth be told, "Help Me", "Twisted", "Raised on Robbery" and "Just Like This Train" could all be referred to (lovingly, mind you) as "ditties." That's one of C&S's charms -- the seemingly high-gloss, lightweight and light-hearted song that only much later reveals its more serious side. So not as emotional as FTR, nor breakthrough as HOSL, not a lryically poetic as 'Hejira', not as mystic as DJRD -- but still all-Joni. No wonder so many people bought C&S and still love it. Maybe we should think of it as "SIQUOMB for the Complete Klutz!" or "Chicken Soup for the Heart and Mind" ... thanks to all for a very entertaining read on this very entertaining album! Don Rowe _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:50:21 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: more Joni guitar questions Clark questions: >Can anyone tell us if Joni has always played a steel string on her albums? I think so. Putting a classical or nylon string guitar through an alternate tuning is pretty harsh. Nylon strings break a heck of a lot more than steel strings, in my opinion. >Has she ever played a 12 string? Are there other musicians who play 12 >strings with open tunings? The complexity of tunings for a 12 string both >intrigues and boggles the mind.... I remember reading some interview with David Crosby where she at one time took a 12 string and retuned it. I often wonder what an alternate tuning would sound like on one, though. >And lastly, will the callouses on my left hand ever stop hurting? I heard soap is a callous (sp?) killer. NPon my guitar-Song For Sharon (I can't seem to leave this tuning!) :-) Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net http://home.revealed.net/Harpua http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark "This conformity factory is now closed!" -Homer Simpson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:18:38 -0500 From: Debra Kaufman Subject: Re: "The Second Coming" vs. "Slouching.." Here are the words by Yeats: The Second Coming Turning and turning in widening gyre, The falcon cannot hear the falconer, Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere the ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. Surely some revelation is at hand; Surely the Second Coming is at hand; The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out When some vast image out of Spiritus Mundi Troubles my sight; somewhere in sands of the desert A shape with a lion body and the head of a man, A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun, Is moving its slow thighs, while about it Reel shadows of indignant desert birds, The darkness drops again; but now I know That twenty centuries of stony sleep Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle, And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, Slouches toward Bethlehem to be born? **************************************************************** "The end is nothing. The road is all." -- Willa Cather ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 05:11:40 +0300 From: j.pukkila@pp.inet.fi Subject: Re: Burning My First Joni CD > Tonight I am finally putting my CD-writer to the test by recording > one > song from every Joni CD - not an easy task because it's impossible to > pick a > favorite, among other things.... > What should I title it? > > E.T. Upstairs At Eric's ...? - --jp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:26:10 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Videos Eric Taylor wrote: > > S&L is an awesome video! I swear Joni pioneered music videos with this > one (two years before MTV existed). Well, I think music videos (even the MTV-sort, as opposed to concert documentaries) existed long before that. I saw a video for the Mamas and the Papas' "California Dreamin'." In it, they are standing in a big white room singing the song, surrounded by a lot of bathtubs. Suddenly, hippies rise up out of the bathtubs and begin to dance! (or wave their arms around a lot, anyway). This caused me to laugh for several days. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:29:58 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: jaco Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:14:20 -0400 From: "Jerry Notaro" Jaco is on the cover of Fender Frontline. Great color photo with the headline The World's Greatest Bass Player. Great story with some Joni content. I'll save it for someone who wants it. - -- Jerry np: Sex Kills ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:24:46 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: 12-strings and guns In response to recent posts about 12-strings: I learned to play guitar on a 12-string, and still today I find the 6-string difficult to chord. Naturally, as a Joni fanatic, I had to learn a few songs of hers. I tried the open D tuning for "You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio," and it sounded wonderful! Just wonderful! But then, gasp!, I had to retune the strings back up to play something else. I managed to put three open-D songs together at the end of a set (including the lovely "Wounded Bird" by Graham Nash) so I would only have to retune once on stage. That lasted a short while, though. 12-strings lose their intonation quickly when retuned (and they are hard enough to keep in standard tune). Also, the high G string has a horrible outlook on being retuned and snaps itself in protest. I could not imagine a performer who relies on alternate tunings, like Joni, using a 12-string, unless she had a row of 12-string guitars all set in different tunings. In response to the comment about New York rudeness and school shootings: As a transplanted New Yorker who now lives in the coldly Christian suburbs of central Pennsylvania (Amish and Lutherans and Baptists, oh my!), I sorely miss New York because it is genuinely more FRIENDLY than most suburban areas. People in the suburbs can be very cold to outsiders. Although in New York you might experience some upfront, non-sugar-coated aggressiveness, people in large cities are forced to interact with each other all the time. They learn to respect the fact that there ARE other people in the world. They walk among each other, instead of driving their suburbia-mobiles to the closest possible parking spot in a strip mall. I would rather drive the Brooklyn Queens Expressway for 24 hours straight than sit in a bottlenecked, stoplight-speckled shopping mall avenue for a half hour. I actually find New Yorkers to be much more relaxed and much more considerate in any crowded situation. They need to communicate more often, with more strangers, and they are faced with a higher degree of stimulation and aggravation in one workday than most suburbanites know in a month! Little wonder why more tragedies such as school shootings occur in "middle class" suburban areas. People in large metro areas have learned to keep the peace to survive. City people generally do not have an exaggerated sense of entitlement. City people don't have as much time to obsess with sick Hitlerian fantasies. City children are disciplined in a different way -- they are taught that they can't always be first, that they can't have everything they want, that other people live in this world too. It's tragic what happened in Colorada, but, let's face it, you have a bunch of unchecked troubled teenagers who lack parental or societal discipline, with nothing to lose and nothing to prove, living in a privileged area. Then we make guns of all sorts easy for them to acquire. On top of that, their primary source of media entertainment was probably violent fantasy video games and films. Judging from sales figures, violence outsells all other genres of entertainment in the male teen demographics. Perhaps we should require that every student memorize the lyrics to at least one complete Joni Mitchell album each school year. "Study war no more...They paved paradise...Sex kills..." Obviously what they are learning and hearing now isn't working. Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:56:38 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Trouble Child - Crosby? In a message dated 4/21/99 11:33:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, haw@ph.ed.ac.uk writes: << Crosby is a Leo - hence "Where is the lion in you to defy him?" >> Plus, he looks like the lion in the Wizard of Oz. Sorry..but..he does to me, anyway. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 00:00:21 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: "The Second Coming" vs. "Slouching.." Debra Kaufman wrote: > Turning and turning in widening gyre, > The falcon cannot hear the falconer, > Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; One comment on "widening gyre". As I have recently learned on my Ireland-Vacation (http://www.stud.uni-goettingen.de/~whuehn/Ireland.htm), this relates to Celtic symbolism. The spiral in particular was an important symbol for the ancient Celts. I quote from a book on Celtic design: "The art historian Paul Jacobsthal compares Celtic art to the bounded and classical style of the Greeks. 'To the Greeks,' he writes, 'a spiral is a spiral and a face is a face, and it is always clear where one ends and the other begins.' The Celts, on the other hand, 'see the faces *into* the spirals or tendrils.'" "W.B. Yeats, the great Irish poet who drew often on ancient Celtic themes, saw history as a spiral or gyre, in which events returned in later times, recognizable, yet altered. This element of constant change suggests the spiral, the "widening gyre" as Yeats called it, rather than the steady, eternal circle." For an example, visit http://www.celtic-art.com/celtic/art1.htm Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:32:09 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Trouble Child - Crosby? swear to god i was about to send a mesage about crosby being the trouble child in cas, mainly because he's a leo. h wright: you beat me to the punch. wallyk - -----Original Message----- De: Howard Wright Para: Joni@smoe.org Fecha: Miércoles 21 de Abril de 1999 09:51 Asunto: Trouble Child - Crosby? > > >In a message dated 4/20/1999 (AD) 4:07:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >dskARTS@concentric.net writes: > ><< I never thought this was about Joni. I picture her visiting ><< someone in a psychiatric hospital who's medicated and ><< maybe even in restraints. > >Marian wrote: > >>I always thought that Trouble Child was a song for a rebellious >>adolescent - maybe a message for Kilauren. > >I have always had a strong feeling that Trouble Child was written, at >least in part, about David Crosby. He ran in to all sorts of problems >during the 70s and 80s - I think he has had several periods where he was >confined to a psychiatric hospital. > >Crosby is a Leo - hence "Where is the lion in you to defy him?" > >The "Dragon shining with all values known" is most likely a drug >reference. Crosby certainly had more than his fair share of drug problems. > >There are also quite a few sea and sailing references ("breaking like the >waves at Malibu", "Only a river of changing fortunes looking for an >ocean"). Crosby was a keen sailor who had his own boat, so this could fit >him too. > >Howard > > > ******************************************************* > Howard.Wright@ed.ac.uk > > Well it's a cold bowl of chilli > When love lets you down > > Neil Young > ******************************************************** > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:57:20 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Colorado, the hard truth. I hate to drop some facts and reality into what seems to be a wistful and typical succession of arguments leading towards obvious conslusions such as gun control etc AND I will undoubtedly incur the wrath of the masses BUT is it ok to inject some not counter but alternative thoughts. Winifred is correct, stuff happens all over this planet. I dont believe any country is immune from violence. However I disagree with the conclusions to be drawn from Colorado. Lets consider gun control. Lets consider how it worked in Kosovo as well as how it would work in the US. Kosovo was a Russian colony. The first thing they did was eliminate all the guns from the population and make it a huge crime to have one. While we angst and weep over Colorado, on the next channell we see mass murder being committed against a defenseless population by a government. Does anyone seriously want to debate whether the Kosovars would vote FOR or AGAINST gun control if they could go back in time? This is why possession of guns was incorporated into the constitution, to protect the population from the government. remember now these people who wrote our constitution all came from European backgrounds and so they knew the history of tyrannical ruthless governments. While Colorado is certainly tragic Kosovo is 1000 times worse. Imagine if Kosovo happened here. You say impossible ? Where was the discussion when the government killed 86 people at Waco? Was that ok. It wasnt at kent State in the 60's. Songs were written about it. Of course it wasnt a liberal Democrat who ordered the killings at Kent State now was it. Waco was portrayed as a necessary government response to people having too many guns according to janet reno. Somehow as long as religious fanatics with guns get liquidated its ok. Think about that. We know that Kosovo is the government liquidating people who are muslims. Why this is not being portrayed as such is a mystery to me because it clearly is. Its a goverment killing people who have a religion they dont like. Back to gun control. The position of the "far right" is that every time they turn around the government is taking away more and more rights and now has resorted to killing civilians (Waco and Ruby Ridge). If we are to prevent future Colorados it wont be by passing stronger gun control laws, all we may do is turn America into another Kosovo. The real problem is (2) I start with the simple fact that far more POSTAL workers murder each other than students year after year. Somehow while the schools are studied and analyzed and laws are passed the Postal Service gets a free pass and it is one of the most secularized institutions in our entire society. Somehow there are things "tragic and out of control" in our schools but "lets raise the cost of stamps again because benefits have to go up." is all we hear about the postal service. No one EVER claims that the government as an employer needs outside control or oversight. Secondly there were more students killed in 1992 than in the last three years combined. Where was the outrage ? I dont know but one things for sure, the Brady Bill didnt work and neither did the other 20,000 new gun control ordinances and laws passed during the Clinton Administration. So it CANT POSSIBLY be laws that can prevent these occurrences. I believe that the root cause of this is the same thing that bleeding hearts have been claiming is the root cause for years and years. Environment. Not the environment (the home, neighborhood, etc) as they have termed it, but the environment the progressives created. The one in which religion is evil to have in the schools. Where no one can judge ethics, morals, and civility because everything is ok.The "environment" is the one in which the schools are prevented from ferreting out deviants or imposing discipline. Mutants are allowed to disrupt the entire school and win lawsuits if they are punished. The government and the academics have been on an all out crusade to outlaw the concepts of personal responsibility, individual rights, and the sanctity of life. There are no absolutes, no right and no wrong. In fact you are deserving of ridicule to claim there is. The most despicable movie imaginable is deemed untouchable because of artistic freedom. I could go on. the problem is that the environment these kids have grown up in is one in which if you feel you are a "victim" its ok to lash out with violence. I remember the sceen where the Howard University Law School cheered the OJ verdict. last but not least we have all been told a million times how virtually no behavior can be bad lest we be judgemental ie being "judgemental" is a worse crime than the behavior. The very same people who castigated and villified anyone who wanted Clinton impeached because he commited a felony (now proven by the judges contempt ruling) are the ones who believe that gun control is the solution. The environment created by the bleeding hearts is one in which every vice is a virtue and every virtue is a vice. How can we expect kids to not adopt the victimization alibi when so much of our media and pundits and movies and television support such a view. When a society has done so much to blur the lines between right and wrong how can we expect immature kids to believe it is wrong to do anything ? And if it IS wrong in most cases its ok for me now because I am a victim. It was no suprise to me to learn that these kids were just like the Ooftygoofties in Germany in the 1980's. Nihilistic youth who were into vampires and demon worship. I am not a religious fanatic but we have legally outlawed prayer in the schools, even moments of silence. Where we create a vacuum something will fill it say the laws of entropy. If we dont allow the good to fill the vacuum the evil will surely. The old saw "An idle mind is the Devils workshop" has just been played out on our national networks from Colorado. As you can see prayers can not be blamed for what happened in Colorado yesterday. But as sure as night follows day there will be a connection made to "religious fanatic extreemists" as the cause. Just as so many JMDL members are focusing on the guns and controlling them. That is the choice we face. Outlaw the only controlling mechanism of self directed moral judgements known to man or suffer the consequences. In Colorado we see the consequences.It isnt "grief counsellors" AFTER the killings, that is clearly needed, it is moral and ethical judgements BEFORE the killings. Last take on gun control. All the enlightened laws and rules they have in Europe didnt prevent Baader Meinhoff, the Red Brigades, and 34 bombs in Paris in 1984. Since the Oklahoma City Bomb was made with Fertilizer and Diesel Fuel do we ban those things while we are at it ? If we are consistent and not hypocritical we do because it isnt the people who do the crimes it is the instruments they use. Let the flames begin. marcel deste. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:50:30 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Trouble Child - Crosby? In a message dated 4/21/99 6:01:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, TerryM2442@aol.com writes: << In a message dated 4/21/99 11:33:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, haw@ph.ed.ac.uk writes: << Crosby is a Leo - hence "Where is the lion in you to defy him?" >> Plus, he looks like the lion in the Wizard of Oz. Sorry..but..he does to me, anyway. Terry >> So we can do a modern folk-rock version of the Wizard of Oz. Crosby as the Cowardly Lion; Nash as the Tin Man; Stills as the Scarecrow and Joni as Dorothy. Who would play the Wizard now that Jerry Garcia is gone? Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:53:26 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Court and Spark In a message dated 4/21/1999 2:59:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Zapuppy@webtv.net writes: << It would be a ridiculous shame if, since we're aware Man From Mars is written about Joni's missing cat, that suddenly only feline lovers would be touched by the song, no longer applying the greater message and application to relationship of the song, from not being able to see past the specifics of to whom it was written. Off the top of my head, Two Grey Rooms is another one that comes to mind. I assume most know it's a story written about a homosexual who takes a room along the path of which an old lover takes daily. When knowing the specifics of a story, I certainly hope the beauty of the story doesn't somehow then become tainted or disregarded because the actual background is known and no longer a speculated mystery. We could go on and on. Learning specifics may add >> I have always loved Two Grey Rooms. What ever meaning it is to her is just extra info. The song, for example Man from Mars....I never knew it was about a cat....now I know. Has it lost any meaning for me? Certainly not! Not because I have 7 cats and lost one or that my name is catgirl but because the song is just GREAT!! Knowing where she was going with the song just makes it interesting for me, nothing more. Catgirl....I call and call the silence is so full of sounds...... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:03:09 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: TTT songbook, clicking noises on Blue In a message dated 4/21/1999 5:35:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, haw@ph.ed.ac.uk writes: << Does anybody know if a songbook >came out for TTT? I called around but I don't think this has happened. The last I heard, the TTT songbook was due out in the shop on April 23rd, so not long to wait! Having said that, it has been delayed many many times already. I'm hoping that it really will be out soon! It will be in pretty much the same format as the last few songbooks - music arranged for vocal line and piano, with guitar chords above. The right tunings are included - only Man From Mars and Here's to You are arranged for standard tuning. >> I am very glad to hear this!!! YEA! I plan on getting it. Actually, already ordered it from a music store. they said they would request it and see if it would come it not guaranteeing me anything. So at the very least it could happen! The clicking noises do not sound like her nails, Kakki was saying that there are some noises that Joni felt leaving in to not make the album *perfect* Well, to bad because it is! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:05:30 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's fingernails In a message dated 4/21/1999 5:54:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, haw@ph.ed.ac.uk writes: << This is something I've realised with time ... I've been playing Joni stuff on the guitar for a long time, but it's only in the last 3 years or so that I realised that having decent length nails makes quite a big difference to the sound of the guitar. The sound you get from nail-on-string is quite a bit stronger and richer than the sound of flesh-on-string. The percussive "clicks" and slaps Joni throws in also work better with long nails. I would urge all Joni-guitarists to grow their nails a little! Howard >> Well I guess my nails will start to grow. It will take some getting used to but I will force my self to learn to fingerpick with my nails.. BTW, why don't they call it nailpicking? Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:08:12 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[4]: Court & Spark as a song cycle (Long & Twisted) In a message dated 4/21/1999 8:24:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: << And responds with: **NoWAY!!!! I love that song. It is one of the few I play off of the album.. It is so much fun!** To which I respond: Cat, my statement was in reference to FMIP as the weakest link in the SONG CYCLE concept of C&S, I didn't mean to infer that there's anything weak about the song itself...my comments were about the song SEQUENCING... Bob >> Ok Bob, Gotcha! I am sure there is not one songs of hers you do not like in the least...me neither! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 02:00:50 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Colorado, the hard truth. PS: the lack of love and the belief that people are not good enough as themselves, which contributes to people feeling that they are less than, is perpetuated even by those that would be horrified to thinkt hay they doit. It is subtle. Like the fact that people are praised and put on pedastools and lauded for what they DO and not for what they are. I have had many parents tell me how brilliant there child is-how many exams they passed, how much money they earn, that thay are a doctore, a lawyer, have a fancy car. I have yet to have a parent ell my they are proud of their child because they are kind or patient or some other quality of spirit. The pressure to get good grades to excel at sport, to be on the team, to get a good job, to get to college etc all feed the idea that we are not good enough, that we can just BE but we must DO. Completly ignoring the fact that our worth is in being and not in doing. We are human beings for a reason. If we weren't we'd be human doings and therefore not worth much because someone can always do better than you! Ecah of us, regardless of how we percieve oursleves and othjers, is inately worthy, imo, and each of has within us the wherewithal to be peaceful and loving beings. Giving conditonal love corrupts and we see the results everywhere. It has been said that if a baby is fed and watered and warmed but not touched or caressed or spoken to, loved, it will die. I guess that makes it important. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:02:45 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[4]: Court & Spark as a song cycle (Long & Twisted) In a message dated 4/21/99 7:11:43 PM Central Daylight Time, CaTGirl627@aol.com writes: << Ok Bob, Gotcha! I am sure there is not one songs of hers you do not like in the least...me neither! >> Now I didn't say that! :~) Dancin' Clown, Smokin', and The Tenth World could all disappear and I'd be the first to say "Good Riddance to Bad Rubbish"... Bob, sitting here thinking that the poor Only Joni folks probably think the list is pretty quiet lately.... NP: Erykah Badu, "certainly" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:14:19 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni & Jackson Browne (i'm Not To Blame) > there is no feud between Joni Mitchell and Jackson Browne. > > the feud is between Jackson Browne and the Truth. > the feud is between Jackson Browne's public persona and private behavior. > > Joni has *never* commented publically about Jackson Browne > and his connection (as inspiration) to the song "Not To Blame". > > however make no mistake about this, the song *is* Jackson. > > his own whiny, pathetic public complaints and denial only confirm > that *he himself* sees the connection I posted this awhile back and I think people may have thought I was joking but I wasn't. In the song 'Lucky Girl' from DED Joni lists the type of losers she's been involved with prior to meeting Klein and one of the lines goes 'cheaters, *woman-beaters* and Huck Finn shucksters hopping parking meters..' I wonder if this is a reference to Jackson Browne and if there was ever an incident where he threatened or was violent to Joni when they were involved with one another... Mark in Seattle, not above gossip (but I *will* sit on a secret where honor is at stake) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 00:15:24 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[3]: Court & Spark as a song cycle (Long & Twisted) In a message dated 4/21/1999 11:19:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: << Pat asked: <> I would say "belongs" is a little strong, it would certainly fit on HOSL as another empty unfulfilling suburban moment, but it fits just as nicely on C&S as a condemnation of a typical phony-baloney celebrity party. Besides, it it got bumped to HOSL, then Jungle Line gets bumped to DJRD, and then lots of folks are upset! :~) Bob >> Greetings, For me I personlly don't feel that PP belongs any place else but CAS. It is a very cool song but it does not have that jazzier feel I get when I hear Hissings. Just my view thats all! CAtgirl..NP:rocky mountain way-Joe Walsh ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 00:41:11 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Videos In a message dated 4/21/1999 4:28:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, David.Wright@oberlin.edu writes: << S&L is an awesome video! I swear Joni pioneered music videos with this > one (two years before MTV existed). Well, I think music videos (even the MTV-sort, as opposed to concert documentaries) existed long before that. I saw a video for the Mamas and the Papas' "California Dreamin'." In it, they are standing in a big white room singing the song, surrounded by a lot of bathtubs. Suddenly, hippies rise up out of the bathtubs and begin to dance! (or wave their arms around a lot, anyway). This caused me to laugh for several days. --David >> I do beleive the Beatles were one of the first video bands. Even in their movies they had *music videos* Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 00:58:51 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni & Jackson Browne (i'm Not To Blame) In a message dated 4/21/1999 9:21:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mark-n-travis@worldnet.att.net writes: << I posted this awhile back and I think people may have thought I was joking but I wasn't. In the song 'Lucky Girl' from DED Joni lists the type of losers she's been involved with prior to meeting Klein and one of the lines goes 'cheaters, *woman-beaters* and Huck Finn shucksters hopping parking meters..' I wonder if this is a reference to Jackson Browne and if there was ever an incident where he threatened or was violent to Joni when they were involved with one another... >> I wouldn't be surprised. Unless he went into therapy chances are he hurt women a long time befor and still does to this day. And to think I really wanted to marry him when I was young. I knew I had alot of growing up to do and had really horrible picks of men. Catgirl- NP:Carpet Crawlers-Genesis (back when they were GREAT!) ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #19 ***************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?