From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #2 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Friday, April 9 1999 Volume 01 : Number 002 Join the Joni Mitchell Internet Community Glossary project. Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- [oJMDL]: Jungle Line ["Tube" ] [oJMDL]: Re: Jungle Line [Dflahm@aol.com] [oJMDL]: Re: Re[2]: Most/Least: TAMING THE TIGER [MDESTE1@aol.com] [oJMDL]: Re[2]: XTC (With Added JC) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] [oJMDL]: Re[2]: Jungle Line [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] [oJMDL]: Re[2]: PWWAM video - questions/observations [Bob.Muller@fluordan] [oJMDL]: FCOL / France [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] [oJMDL]: XTC (no JC) ["Eric G. Postel" ] [oJMDL]: Re: Blue FTR Hejira/Joni interview [Jerry Notaro ] [oJMDL]: Re[2]: Blue FTR Hejira/Joni interview [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.co] [oJMDL]: Re: the Jungle Line [Les Irvin ] [oJMDL]: 2 things...SJC [Russell Bowden ] [oJMDL]: one of these things is not like the others . . .(was Jungle Line) [Bounced Message ] [oJMDL]: Re: 2 things...SJC ["Don Rowe" ] [oJMDL]: Hello there! [Volker.Reichl@t-online.de (Volker Reichl)] [oJMDL]: Re: Hello there! [Jerry Notaro ] [oJMDL]: [Fwd: JUDY COLLINS 60TH BIRTHDAY] [Suzanne Simpson ] [oJMDL]: Jungle Line [Randy Remote ] [oJMDL]: Re: Jungle Line [Randy Remote ] [oJMDL]: Re: Hello there! ["Winfried Hühn" ] [oJMDL]: HOSL on Quad vinyl? ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] [oJMDL]: Important JMDL Announcement (for real this time) [Les Irvin ] [oJMDL]: Re: Jungle Line ["Travis Moser" ] [oJMDL]: Who was Don Juan ? New Age ? ["Ben Mulvey" ] [oJMDL]: Re: Who was Don Juan ? New Age ? [Randy Remote ] [oJMDL]: Re: Pronunciation of Hejira ["Eric Taylor" ] [oJMDL]: Re: Pronunciation of Hejira ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:33:30 +0200 From: "Tube" Subject: [oJMDL]: Jungle Line I've mentioned this before but I'll mention it again as I'd love to have a quick discussion with anyone about it. I love the Jungle Line. It was the first HOSL song I ever heard, on Alan Freeman's Saturday Rock Show on British Radio One when it was first released in the 70's. I had a little Sanyo mono tape deck lined-in and running at the time so it recorded JL and I thus played this very hissy, wowy recording of the track many times over the following months, though it was almost another ten years before I heard the rest of the album! Anyway, in Scorsese's film 'New York, New York', when the De Niro character launches his solo career and opens his own jazz night-club, his band play in front of a painted backdrop which is a Rousseau-style jungle scene. I'm not sure which was made first, HOSL or NY,NY, but it seems possible that one could have influenced the other with regard to Scorsese's cinematic and Mitchell's musical rendering of the atmosphere of a jazz club. Or, they may have really been at some time, somewhere, an actual jazz club with Rousseauesqe jungle murals on the walls, which both Marty and Joni knew of or perhaps even visited at some time, and both used it to colour their treatments of the jazz-scene. Sure, Jungle Line is like no other track on the HOSL album, but for that matter it's unlike any track on any album, any time, so what the heck? :-) For me it seems to fit in well - I think that HOSL is a story told in flashbacks from the point of view of the bitter, disillusioned married woman trapped in Harry's House near the end of the album. Shadows and Light is a spiritual piece looking for wisdom and looking forward to some state which will allow her an escape or transcendance from her dead-end middle-class suburban life, but before that, everything looks backward from Harry's House. The album may also be a pastiche of the experiences of two different women, though I'm not sure. This is all IMO anyway, (it may be trash, ie, I'm not even a woman so how should I know, but after many hours over the years 'immersed' in the musical pool of HOSL, eyes closed and floating, that's the feeling I'm left with at the end of every listening) 'In France they etc etc' seems a flashback to the observations of the young college girl, who, like many American girls, has 'done' Europe, picking up University credits along the way. She's was impressed with Paris - "Ammoooooouuuuurrrrr Mama! Not cheap display!" After graduating she probably returned to Paris to dissappear into the steamy 50's jungle of Le Jazz Hot, or a recreation of it somewhere down deep inside New York Beat Village. For a club with a jungle scene on the walls, jungle music funnels from the cracks. Black faces suck and blow smoke and spit through weed and brass. Striped T shirts mingle with olive and rust rough-silk shifts and sweat against the Rousseau jungle walls and wires and pipes and potted palms. Any eye for detail could see a little lace between the seams but for the time being she will slum it with some artist who paints a palm-strewn path of apes and tigers through the vertical shadows of xyla-vibra-tigraphone and weeping sax. Poppy poison, poppy tourniquet. Horns like drinking tusks and stripes of ivory and ebony glimpsed through stripey gaps in white and blonde dancing bodies and oiled and shining flashing black blue brown skin and flailing pernod gold glistening unshaven underarm dripping dark pits of continental hair slither against and around and under and over her and away on grass like mouthpiece spit. Rousseau paints a jungle flower behind her ear. Is she in front of the painting, or merged into it? Does the painting fill her mind or does she step into it. Is the paint on her skin or on the walls? Is she painted green, painted black or painted tiger? Is the painter Rousseau or just a copier of Rousseau? It hardly matters, her experience of life in this phase is so intense, driven, dark and foreign force primeval. She wakes up one Chelsea morning ten streets uptown with a crashing headache. Good fortune allows so she gets the hell out of it, drinks a fresh orange on Fifth and goes home to mama. Reinvents herself in the school of southern charm, cos hey girls, when it comes right down to it a woman must have everything and she's got her eye on her oil-rich college beau and that ranch house on a hill after a fling with the Kingpin. Okay so I'm mixing it all up a bit with the Boho dance and other Joni stuff, but that's my take on The Jungle Line anyway. It makes perfect narrative sense to me in its place on the album. Dash it all, why doesn't someone make a movie of this album, it's crying out for a treatment! Until then, be content with making comparisons to Bogdanovitch's technicolour 80's follow-up to 'The Last Picture Show' (forget the name, but it's the one where Jeff and Cyb have grown up and everyone's now rich, fat, drunk, bored and middle-aged) Also, 'Plenty' which is the only film I like Meryl Streep in. Streep is the block of ice who only really functioned and 'lived' as a human being while she was a British undercover agent working with the resistance in France during WW2 Nazi occupation. After the war she gradually goes to pieces. Tremendous film, it'll break your heart. And yes, Desperately Seeking Susan, bored suburban housewife reaches out to grasp and recapture a younger life by intercepting Madonna's free spirit in Battery Park. A little trite and superficial but it has something. Enough, I've gone on too long already. Blessings, Tube. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:49:19 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: Jungle Line Lahm here. Moving along to "In France..." and your take on it: to me, it's not about going to France but about how rock 'n' roll was the most important symbol and mechanism for the adolescent needing to stretch wings and get independent of parents ("churches and schools...middle-class circumstances"). As is often the case, part of the text is chosen as a title or motto for the whole. Just as one song lends its title to the album, one line, a vivid image, lends it's poetry to the song as a title. I hear the teenage girl saying, exasperated, to her mother ("a woman...fading in a suburban room")--you know--"Mom, for heaven's sake, he only kissed me goodnight on the porch. In France, they kiss on MAIN STREET for cryin' out loud!!!" BTW, does anyone know who first used "for cryin' out loud" as an idiom for emphasis? Ciao for now LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:32:13 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: Re[2]: Most/Least: TAMING THE TIGER I decide that since I appeared to be so out of phase with the vast majority of the group I thought what Id do is take one of the songs that I like that everyone else seems to consider out of favor and repost my own "counter culture" critique. I mean if Jungle Line can get some profs then any joni song can certainly. md ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:56:34 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: [oJMDL]: Re[2]: XTC (With Added JC) Catgirl purrs: <> Please let me know what you think! It'll take about 3 listens to REALLY fall for all of it, and the first track is the most unaccessible so don't be put off by it - although who knows, it may turn out to be your fave! Bob NP: Doobie Bros "Clear As The Driven Snow" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:05:05 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: [oJMDL]: Re[2]: Jungle Line Mark says: <> Believe it or not Mark I thought about that brilliant post of yours when I commented on JL - and I think it makes total sense, but one has to really dig below the surface to make the connection you've clearly made...on the surface JL does stick out "like a sore thumb" (Evian's phrase)btw, I don't mean that as a negative comment about JL, besides, what a fantastic thread has developed...thanks for the disagreement! I'll admit I'm so drawn to Hejiranalysis (brand new word I just made up) that I don't devote enough time to the other work. It's posts like yours (and the others I've just read) that inspire me to do so. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:11:12 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: [oJMDL]: Re[2]: PWWAM video - questions/observations Mark admonishes: <> Mark, mea culpa, I should have (and what I MEANT) was "of those who call Hejira their favorite" - it sincerely doesn't cause me any ill will that others don't put it at the top of their Joni list, it'd be a rather dull JMDL if that were the case - thanks for making me clarify... <> No No!! Stop the burning!! :~D Bob, burning with optimism's flames... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:25:33 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: [oJMDL]: FCOL / France David queried: <> As far as I know, it was my Dad...:~D PS, great take on "France" - it amazes me how these songs affect us in such different ways... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:12:22 -0400 From: "Eric G. Postel" Subject: [oJMDL]: XTC (no JC) I also agree, its a really enjoyable interesting record Eric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 10:23:53 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: Blue FTR Hejira/Joni interview Kakki wrote: > Guess I > was thinking too much of the radical FTR underground here on the list with > whom I've had private raves. They know who they are, but I'm not naming > names! > Me, Me! It's always been my favorite. Never waver, Kakki. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:25:07 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: [oJMDL]: No XTC, all JC Gina wrote: > > Sounds really nice but pretty much the same sort of good thing that > they've been putting out for some years now? Am I mistaken? Bob wrote: > > Gina, I had to smile at the last comment you made here...after all, > isn't what most of the uninformed out there say about our beloved Joni? Then David wrote: <> And that certainly is a complaint among many, I suppose - I was thinking more of the casual fan, someone who likes her stuff but doesn't really take the plunge to buy and listen but is willing to acknowledge that she consistently puts out good stuff from what they can tell. I struck up a conversation at the Atlanta show with a couple sitting in front of me, they identified themselves as Joni fans and mentioned that the last record of hers they had bought was Court & Spark!?! Like Gina says, you can't be a huge fan of everyone, but being a Joni fan only entails a new purchase every 3 or 4 years! :~) Bob, who's still upset that he had to break down and buy a new pair of pants last week and kept thinking about the tunes he could've bought with the same $40... NP: Doobies, "Slat Key Soquel Rag" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:53:47 -0400 From: Jason Wood Subject: [oJMDL]: RE: JMDL Digest V4 #149 From: "Eric Taylor" <> I've heard Joni pronounce it: heh-JEER-a.>> I pronounce it in the best mangled Arabic I've learned from my old man; it comes out something like heh-zhrah . . . - - Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:20:37 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: [oJMDL]: Re[2]: Blue FTR Hejira/Joni interview Jerry proudly says: <> So to Jerry & Kakki I dedicate this little parody... The "Roses" & "Hejira" Should Be Friends (sung to the tune of "The Farmer & the Cowman should be friends" from 'Oklahoma' Oh, the Roses & Hejira should be friends, Yes, the Roses & Hejira should be friends, One guy gets a Black Crow thrill, another likes her Barangrill, But that's no reason why they can't be friends... (FTR fan): I'd like to say a word "For The Roses" It's always been my most pers'nal favorite, I like to play it over & over, and listen so I really can savor it... It's got a few more songs than Hejira, And not a single one of them a bummer, Hejira sounds to me so doggone dreary And doesn't even bother with a drummer... Oh, the Roses & Hejira should be friends, Yes, the Roses & Hejira should be friends One's a wild "Coyote", the other "Electricity", But that's no reason why they can't be friends (Hejira fan): I'd like to wax poetic 'bout Hejira, The road trips and Amelia and birds, The dreamy atmosphere that Joni's casting, And wow, just get a load of all those words! The images are all so boldly vivid, I see it, feel it, taste it, touch it, smell it, Even Joni picks it as her favorite, And didn't have to bare her butt to sell it... Oh, the Roses & Hejira should be friends, Yes, the Roses & Hejira should be friends, Let's agree, each girl & boy, We've got THEM ALL that we enjoy!! So there's the reason why we're all such friends!! (With apologies to Rodgers & Hammerstein of course...) Bob NP: Nothing...I had to remember the melody to this thing... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 09:39:05 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: the Jungle Line At 12:01 AM 4/8/99 , Evian wrote: >All this talk about "The Jungle Line" is really interesting. Maybe I >have been missing the point all these years, but the reason that I >thought that people maybe don't react positively to "The Jungle Line" is >just because it marks such a departure for Joni. Joniphiles - This whole "Jungle Line" thread is great and is just crying out to be compiled by someone! Any takers? Contact me privately if you are interested in doing so. Thanks, Les ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 08:49:38 -0700 From: Russell Bowden Subject: [oJMDL]: 2 things...SJC Hey Gang, 1. Since I have been on the JMDL for a few months now, I am wondering how many of you folks are in San Francisco or the Bay Area in general. I would like to meet some of you for verbal Joni discussion. (No long walks on the beach required.......though what a place to talk about JM!) If you're interested please message me at russbow@earthlink.net 2. I need some education concerning FTR. I love many of the songs and have listened to this one for years........but there's something about it that I JUST DON"T GET!!!! The overall concept (if there is one) escapes me totally. Electricity is perhaps my fave song, But I JUST DON'T GET IT!! Help!! Feeling stupid, Love, Russ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 09:23:02 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: [oJMDL]: one of these things is not like the others . . .(was Jungle Line) From: Jason Wood Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:48:04 -0400 Bob wrote: <> It seems that back when NRH came out, Entertainment Weekly said of it in their review something to the extent that it was her first album without a crazy darting song to match a crazy darting thought (surely a misquote, but the sentiment is correct). Exploring Joni's catalog since that point, I can see where they are both correct and incorrect. Invariably, it seems that each JM album has had a song that seems somewhat "out of place" at first, only to later become part of a larger fabric. The Jungle Line and its Burundi drums and moog laid the groundwork for much of her later explorations (and Paul Simon's, among others, if you were to ask Joni) and its "state of belonging" is best gained in hindsight. This of course goes hand-in-hand with the general rule of thumb that Joni's music is not readily accessible on first (or even fourteenth) listening, but rather grows on you. I tend to the like the experiments that don't seem to work (even if I still maintain that they still don't after repeated listenings, i.e. six months trying to appreciate Lead Balloon) if only as a clue into creative processes and generations. Anyone else for experimentations that seemed out of place on an album and fleshed themselves out more fully over time? Just a means of keeping evolution and mutation in check. . . Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:53:10 +0200 From: "Tube" Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: Jungle Line - -----Original Message----- From: Dflahm@aol.com To: ramnix@pronet.it Cc: joni@smoe.org Date: 08 April 1999 14:52 Subject: Re: Jungle Line >Lahm here. Moving along to "In France..." and your take on it: to me, it's >not about going to France but about how rock 'n' roll was the most important >symbol and mechanism for the adolescent needing to stretch wings and get >independent of parents ("churches and schools...middle-class circumstances"). >As is often the case, part of the text is chosen as a title or motto for the >whole. Just as one song lends its title to the album, one line, a vivid >image, lends it's poetry to the song as a title. I hear the teenage girl >saying, exasperated, to her mother ("a woman...fading in a suburban >room")--you know--"Mom, for heaven's sake, he only kissed me goodnight on the >porch. In France, they kiss on MAIN STREET for cryin' out loud!!!" >BTW, does anyone know who first used "for cryin' out loud" as an idiom for >emphasis? Ciao for now LAHM Yeah that's valid as well. Being an old bible-thumper I personally always take the literal, grammatical, historical line of hermeneutics before I get to the figurative interpretation ;-) Tube ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 09:56:24 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: 2 things...SJC Russ writes ... >2. I need some education concerning FTR. I love many of the songs and have >listened to this one for years........but there's something about it that I JUST >DON"T GET!!!! The overall concept (if there is one) escapes me totally. >Electricity is perhaps my fave song, But I JUST DON'T GET IT!! >Help!! >Feeling stupid First of all, there's no such thing as "feeling stupid" on the jmdl. I may not be the best lister to 'educate' you -- but I think I can address your confusion about the 'concept' issue. I cut my Joni baby teeth on this album, but mostly listening only to the piano numbers, which helped me break out of the shackles of classical training. Then came 'Hejira', which for me, hung together as a consistent conceptual effort like no other album I'd ever heard. To the extent that when I listened back to FTR, made it seem disjointed. It seemed Joni was bouncing back and forth between the guitar and piano as the basis of composing the songs. This may be a big part of the "lack of concept" you're experiencing. But more recently, I've really been concentrating on the lyrical and melodic sense of the songs on FTR, and have found that it does indeed hang together quite well. It is also an album full of "foundation work" that is echoed in later efforts. Joni, by her own admission, did her "heavy thinking" in her mid-thirties -- but all those themes are beginning to surface on FTR. "Let the Wind Carry Me", for me, is the first look at feelings that come to full fruition in "Song for Sharon", for example. Listen to it with these ears, and I think the fog may just begin to lift ... that is, unless I've managed to be totally obscure ... it wouldn't be the first time. Hope this helps, and good luck -- like all Joni albums, the joy is that time and tide only serve to deepen your understanding and appreciation of her artistry. Don Rowe _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 19:52:33 +0200 From: Volker.Reichl@t-online.de (Volker Reichl) Subject: [oJMDL]: Hello there! Hello everybody, after reading for some time in the JoniDigest I´d like to participate a bit closer. Just having received the TTT album I find it enthralling from the beginning, since the first listening. Some of Joni´s later records needed a bit more time to get acustomed to. Especially "My Best To You" hit my emotions. Maybe there´s some tendency to "kitsch" even in the musical arrangement, but Joni´s very personal manner makes it a pearl. Hearing the song I feel it as a kind of saying "goodbye". In a press-review of TTT someone said that Joni is very seriously ill. Can anybody tell me if that´s true? Excuse my lapses in English, please, cordially, Volker ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 14:03:59 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: Hello there! Volker Reichl wrote: > Especially "My Best To You" hit my emotions. Maybe there´s some tendency to > "kitsch" even in the musical arrangement, but Joni´s very personal manner makes > it a pearl. Hearing the song I feel it as a kind of saying "goodbye". > In a press-review of TTT someone said that Joni is very seriously ill. Can > anybody tell me if that´s true? Not true. In fact, she is in better health than she was 10 years ago. But she does suffer from post polio syndrome which causes some pain and discomfort. She had to cut her last promotional tour short because of exhaustion, but she is not "very seriously ill." > > > Excuse my lapses in English, please, No lapses at all. Your English is excellent. Jerry NP: TTT ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 13:12:06 -0500 From: Suzanne Simpson Subject: [oJMDL]: [Fwd: JUDY COLLINS 60TH BIRTHDAY] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------AC43930CE1F6EB66AB270C1E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --------------AC43930CE1F6EB66AB270C1E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from cnct.com (root@earth.cnct.com [165.254.118.23]) by pluto.corp.bcm.tmc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01686 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:54:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [207.111.66.107] (ts1-7.ny.cnct.com [207.111.66.107]) by cnct.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA09251; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:48:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: jcollins@cnct.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:38:59 -0500 To: rmpdepaul@aol.com From: Rocky Mountain Productions Subject: JUDY COLLINS 60TH BIRTHDAY Dear Friends, In honor of Judy's 60th birthday, Rocky Mountain Productions would like to ask our JUDYCOLLINS.COM friends to post on the FAN FORUM your favorite Judy Collins' moment, song, concert, etc. as a special gift to Ms. Collins. Take care, Jenny at Rocky Mountain Productions ______________________________________________________ Thank you for signing the Judy Collins guest book - you will be receiving updates on events, appearances and special offers. If this has been sent to you in error, please contact us and we will remove you from our guest book. - -------------------------The Voice of Liquid Silver---------------------------- - --------------AC43930CE1F6EB66AB270C1E-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 12:52:17 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: CD recorder info "Jeffery W. Osborne" wrote: > An RCA cable does not transfer digital data, but analog. The S/PDIF digital connection uses an RCA type cable. A regular one will work, but a special one made for digital frequencies is preferred. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 13:03:33 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: [oJMDL]: Jungle Line Gosh, all this analysis...I'm enjoying the thread, but my take on the song is that it is simply a great portrait of the jazz soaked opiated European art scene of the 30's, and doesn't really aspire to make statements about racism, etc...maybe I'm just too simple.... RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 13:04:32 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: Jungle Line Dflahm@aol.com wrote: > BTW, does anyone know who first used "for cryin' out loud" as an idiom for > emphasis? David, according to my "Dictionary of Phrase and Fable": "A colloquial exclamation of astonishment or annoyance current since the 1920s, probably a subconscious EUPHEMISM (their emph.)for a blasphemous utterance." But for crying out loud, who said it first? RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 23:18:59 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: Hello there! At last! I'm not the only Joni fan in Germany, after all -- Willkommen in Joniland, Volker! Winfried Volker Reichl schrieb: > Hello everybody, > > after reading for some time in the JoniDigest I´d like to participate a bit > closer. > > Just having received the TTT album I find it enthralling from the beginning, > since the first listening. Some of Joni´s later records needed a bit more time > to get acustomed to. > > Especially "My Best To You" hit my emotions. Maybe there´s some tendency to > "kitsch" even in the musical arrangement, but Joni´s very personal manner makes > it a pearl. Hearing the song I feel it as a kind of saying "goodbye". > In a press-review of TTT someone said that Joni is very seriously ill. Can > anybody tell me if that´s true? > > Excuse my lapses in English, please, > > cordially, > > Volker ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 18:53:43 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: [oJMDL]: 100%; Joni is Everywhere Verily I speak unto you, the downtrodden masses! Hark! Be of good cheer for this week, on the fabled frequencies of Public radio, heard throughout the land was the magically tunage that is "Man From Mars". - -- Read me or deleeeete me but don't try to shut me up, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 18:58:07 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: [oJMDL]: HOSL on Quad vinyl? A newsletter called Primyl Vinyl says that The Hissing Of Summer Lawns and Court and Spark were both released in quadrophonic versions in addition to the normal releases. I'm interested in a Japanese vinyl or quad copy of HOSL if anyone is selling...... - -- Read me or deleeeete me but don't try to shut me up, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 16:53:08 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: [oJMDL]: Important JMDL Announcement (for real this time) Joniphiles - Since the inception of the JMDL some 2 plus years ago, the most recurring argument amongst list members (besides the recurring/reoccurring debate) has been the "Joni Content/No Joni Content" issue. After months and months of trying to figure out how to resolve the issue, I'm pleased to announce a just-less-than-perfect solution. Thanks to the great people at Smoe, especially Jeff Wasilko, we now have an "onlyJoni" option to the JMDL. Jeff has been working with me for the past few days, helping me set up two additional options to the JMDL list that "filter out" all NJC. Now, you defectors from the petty NJC wars finally have an option. Mr. Dulson, this one's for you! Here's the disclaimer - the reason it is just an "almost" perfect solution. This is not another list - it's still the one and only JMDL. Nor is it a moderated list. Rather, it operates entirely without human intervention by a majordomo filter that rejects all JMDL posts with "NJC" in the subject line. So, rather than a moderator having to play "A Higher Power" and decide what is JC and what is NJC - this job falls to the author of each message. Obviously, the key to making this whole thing work is the discipline of each member to correctly label their posts if they contain NJC. I am going to begin issuing gentle, private reminders to those who forget to properly label their posts. Your help would be greatly appreciated in remembering the NJC tag, when applicable. I feel that the JMDL is becoming big enough where this type of an option is needed. It is a good solution for me as it keeps the JMDL "un-moderated" - which has always been my goal - yet at the same time offers a "less-noisy" solution for those who favor only Joni content. With everyone's cooperation, we can make this work and keep almost everyone satisfied. The onlyJoni list (the oJMDL?) has a live and a digest option. If you want to make the switch, here's how: First, unsubscribe from your current list option by sending one of these lines to : unsubscribe joni unsubscribe joni-digest Then, send one of these lines to the same address (it can be in the same message, just not the same line): subscribe onlyjoni subscribe onlyjoni-digest The posting address remains the same - regardless of which of the four formats of the JMDL that you are subscribed to. Contact me if you have any questions. More info is also available on the main JMDL page at http://www.jmdl.com/ Take care ... and remember the NJC label! Les ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:55:04 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: Hejira pronunciation In a message dated 4/8/99 10:58:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jawood@nber.org writes: > pronounce it in the best mangled Arabic I've learned from my old man; it > comes out something like heh-zhrah . . . > That's one legitimate way to pronounce it. I've always pronounced it hejiiiiiira and much as I try to pronounce it Joni's way, I can't. Gina NP: Endless Cycle, Lou Reed from New York PS. There's a ladybug stuck in my keyboard, between the a and the s and meandering up toward the w ... I wonder if this means something... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 19:09:13 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: [oJMDL]: Sequencing TTT May I suggest resequencing Taming The Tiger? If it's not blasephemy, I have a user-defined sequence for Taming the Tiger. Consider starting with Man From Mars and let it play through Led Balloon. "Lead Balloon" ends with that smeared, almost off pitch synth sound as we all know. When you put Harlem In Havana *after* Lead Balloon, the horrible distortion is right in step- it's rock and roll. I believe that this sequence is wonderful because I can finally enjoy "Harlem In Havana" again. - -- Read me or deleeeete me but don't try to shut me up, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:59:05 -0700 From: "Travis Moser" Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: Jungle Line > >Lahm here. Moving along to "In France..." and your take on it: to me, it's > >not about going to France but about how rock 'n' roll was the most > important > >symbol and mechanism for the adolescent needing to stretch wings and get > >independent of parents ("churches and schools...middle-class > circumstances"). Taking this one step further, maybe the Burundi drums are a reference back to the roots of one of the roots of rock-n-roll - the African influence on jazz, r&b and by extension on rock-n-roll. In this line of thinking the drums represent rebellion against the WASPish world Joni portrays just as rock-n-roll does in 'In France They Kiss on Main Street'. She could be using them as another musical metaphor for rejecting the status quo to pursue that Bohemian lifestyle that the artist has trapped himself in in 'The Boho Dance'. This lifestyle can lead down many different roads, both enriching & perilous. Ironically the woman behind the barbed-wire fence in the ranch house on a hill also finds darkness lurking underneath the surface of the sanitized, supposedly safe world that she has imprisoned herself in. I love HOSL! You can lose yourself in it & try to unravel its mystery and still there's more to be solved. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 19:11:28 PDT From: "Ben Mulvey" Subject: [oJMDL]: Who was Don Juan ? New Age ? Hi List Its been a while since I posted - sorry! Its nice to be writing a post to JMDL'ers again. JM still very much part of life. I've been in Oz for last couple of months, HOSL & Herjira, been 2 of the albums on the essential list, esp. Herjira, now think its my fav Joni, used to think it was BLUE. Question ? I came across a comment in a recent Joni interveiw on the JMDL site, that she looked forward to something like she did the latest Carlos Castenada book. I'm very into CC's books myself. If you haven't read them they feature the insights CC gained as an anthropology student, then initiate of a Native American shaman called Don Juan. I have 11 Joni albums, but "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter" not one of them - any chance its the same person ??? On a side note - I think there are a lot of interesting references to "New Age" topics in Jonis music. I.e The I Ching - "the hexagram of the heavans". Actually, as someone who is very interested in anything that falls under the "New Age" (that word can be a bit limiting) banner - I think Joni's music is suffused with that viewpoint. That last statement a bit of a crude generalisation - but would be interested to hear anyones elses thoughts on this. Thanks All Ben ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 19:53:33 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: Who was Don Juan ? New Age ? Ben Mulvey wrote: > > Question ? I came across a comment in a recent Joni interveiw on the > JMDL site, that she looked forward to something like she did the > latest Carlos Castenada book. > I have 11 Joni albums, but "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter" > not one of them - any chance its the same person ??? I don't know if Joni has made a statement to that effect, but I always interpreted it as "I'm the shaman's wild child"... the sorceress that likes to go to dance clubs.... Your collection is missing a major gem......something to look forward to. RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:47:23 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: Important JMDL Announcement (for real this time) Les, I love JC and NJC alike, but on behalf of the anti-NJC crowd thanks for your efforts in making this list the best one on the 'net! Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Wrong Side Of The Road" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:51:53 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: Hejira pronunciation In a message dated 4/8/99 6:05:12 PM Central Daylight Time, Ginamu@aol.com writes: << That's one legitimate way to pronounce it. I've always pronounced it hejiiiiiira and much as I try to pronounce it Joni's way, I can't. >> And the way I pronounced it until I heard Joni say "Heh-jeer-uh" was "Hi-air-uh", because that's the way I heard the DJ say it way back in '76 or so. Bless her heart, she was Jolie on WQDR in Raleigh NC, and she might have had some pronunciation challenges but she LOVED Joni, and to tell the truth probably was the one to first expose me to the "non-hit" stuff... Here's to you Jolie, wherever you are... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:02:14 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: the Jungle Line This is a wonderful discussion ... anyone fanatical enough to collect the entirety of this thread for later reference? Lori, already too busy and wishing she had more time ... San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:00:54 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: Who was Don Juan ? New Age ? In a message dated 4/8/99 9:14:09 PM Central Daylight Time, benjhk@hotmail.com writes: << I have 11 Joni albums, but "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter" not one of them - any chance its the same person ??? Actually, as someone who is very interested in anything that falls under the "New Age" (that word can be a bit limiting) banner - I think Joni's music is suffused with that viewpoint. That last statement a bit of a crude generalisation - but would be interested to hear anyones elses thoughts on this. >> Ben, my thoughts are that DJRD is probably the most "New Age" of Joni's records, from the cosmic symphony "Parika Plains" to the cross-cultural "Tenth World" to the atmospheric guitar intro to "Cotton Ave.", not to mention all the symbolic word imagery that abounds in the set. Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to beg, borrow, steal, or buy it ASAP!! As far as Don Juan's identity, wasn't he supposedly some kind of great historical lover? I'm thinking of the lyric in Carly Simon's "Cowtown" where the character's Mom says: "What kind of romance Could make my baby leave France? Donald must be some kind of Don Juan" Bob, winning pitcher tonight in softball...had my softball mojo working... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:40:23 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: PWWAM video - questions/observations In a message dated 4/8/1999 12:04:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: << But I must say, I'm a little fickle, in that I have different favourites for different reasons. Blue is my favourite purely for the lyrics and emotions it conjures, simply due to the time in my life that I discovered it; Hejira is my favourite all-round - lyrically, musically, emotionally; Wild Things Run Fast has a special meaning, because it was my first Joni album, and I wore it out before finding another; Turbulent Indigo rates as well, I love the full sound of the guitar, and the lyrics blow me away; Court and Spark is my favourite "driving" album; etc., etc., etc.! >> AMEN SISTER! I couldn't agree with you more. I love all of her albums in different ways. Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 22:45:02 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: For The Roses Russell wrote: >2. I need some education concerning FTR. I love many of the songs and have >listened to this one for years........but there's something about it that I JUST >DON"T GET!!!! The overall concept (if there is one) escapes me totally. >Electricity is perhaps my fave song, But I JUST DON'T GET IT!! >Help!! It's difficult to articulate all the many reasons why FTR is my most ecstatic fave but I feel challenged to give it a try. Disclaimer: These are only my personal feelings and interpretation regarding this work and I don't purport to speak for anyone else! I started out with Joni from the beginning and anticipated each new album like a rare jewel, always eagerly looking forward to her next creation. I considered all the early albums mostly as personal stories of her own ongoing life, experiences and growth. When "Blue" came out, I had no idea that she was suffering an emotional crisis or "nervous breakdown" (as she recounted later in several interviews) but I did hear reports on the radio that she was in very bad shape and that people were very worried about her. At that time, her upset was attributed to breaking up with James Taylor and there was also some blame cast on Carly Simon for "stealing" James away and putting Joni in a less than flattering light in her popular song "No Secrets". So I also worried and wondered about Joni and did not hear any more news on her for almost a year. Then I was so relieved to hear that she had released a new album "For The Roses" and I rushed to buy it. Every single song knocked me out on the first listen. Not only was each one gorgeous melodically but each set of lyrics seemed to address and confront so many life issues which she (and many of the rest of us) was struggling with: disparities and inequities in the American Dream - "Banquet"; problems with a lover (James) - Cold Blue Steel; struggle with love, self confidence and self-esteem - "Lesson in Survival" ; time-old conflicts with one's mother - "Let the Wind Carry Me"; second-thoughts, burn-out, and cynicism toward one's career (record biz) and fame -"For The Roses"; longing and difficulty in letting go of a love - "See You Sometime"; "Electricity"; "You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio"; womanizing lovers - "Blonde in The Bleachers" and "Woman of Heart and Mind" (which also makes an allusion to the long-lost child). The closing song, "Judgement of the Moon and Stars" touches on all these issues and she ends in fighting spirit, "shaking her fists at lightning now" and deciding (and also exhorting the listener) to "spread your light like blazes all across the sky" and "strike every chord that you feel." It's like she fell into the deep, dark tunnel but ultimately emerged triumphantly into the light. I thought the whole album was this most amazing tale of confronting and processing one's heartaches and demons and finding some resolution and she expressed the experience through the vehicle of this beautiful creation. One should also consider that this was not the ordinary or typical kind of album made by a female artist back in 1972, either. I can't think of many others from that time who put right out there such personal issues in an entire album. Laura Nyro is the only one I can recall offhand. So it was definitely a mold breaker in many ways at the time. In interviews, Joni has talked about this period. After "Blue", she was going to quit the record biz and she ran off to British Columbia to escape everything and started building her little cottage up there. She talks about her dark period of breakdown and depression there. She said that she would swim in the ocean everyday and one day as she emerged from the water, the "cloud" suddenly lifted and she knew she was going to be alright. So everytime I play this album it reminds me of her triumphant return and victory and it is just as compelling as the first time I experienced it. I was just so glad she made it back and brought us this gorgeous music as an eternal bonus. Kakki the Rosarian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 02:23:23 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: Pronunciation of Hejira Cathy asked: <> I offered: <> Jason clarified: <> That's what I've always thought! "Hejira" is pronounced phonetically in English. Joni just put that Canadian twist on it.... Okay. I am an Hejira lover and just want to scream: "Get a hearing aid!" when people call it "bland." The word that comes to my mind is "hypnotic." I think that anyone who doesn't absolutely ADORE this album has never really been high or else never listened to it on a good stereo. I'd also like to comment on The Jungle Line. When I first heard it back in 75, it was my favorite song Joni had ever done. I remember blasting it all the time and really think that it contributed to my growing appreciation for World Beat music. The brave critics panned her for it back then but who can argue now that Joni didn't break the ground for the best of what we hear today? And I still think the Shadows & Light video inspired MTV.... E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 00:37:44 -0600 From: evian Subject: [oJMDL]: HOSL (JC) Okay.... I am coming out of the Joni closet and I am going to say.... I prefer HOSL to Hejira!!! HOSL really annoyed me the first few years I had it, and then, after really listening to it, I find it pure genius! I love love love Hejira, and I seem to identify with it more and more as I grow older, and it is a much more.. hmm.. what word am I looking for.... personal album for me, but HOSL is just pure genius and ballsy to me! There is something about how it departs from everything else she has done, while at the same time builds on it, that really catches me. As well, why "The Boho Dance" wasn't a single, I will never know. Anyway, just another late night ramble, since we have been talking about the Hejira and FTR debate. Evian np: Yaz -- Upstairs at Erics ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 23:45:56 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: Pronunciation of Hejira Eric wrote: > Okay. I am an Hejira lover and just want to scream: "Get a hearing >aid!" when people call it "bland." The word that comes to my mind is >"hypnotic." I think that anyone who doesn't absolutely ADORE this album has >never really been high or else never listened to it on a good stereo. Eric, I acknowledge and appreciate you as even more of a total, rabid Joni loyalist than myself, but calm down ;-) "Bland"may not have been the best choice of words but it can have many meanings, not always derogatory! I prefer one of my dictionary's definitions - "pleasantly smooth in manner, suave, mild and soothing, not sharp, harsh." Hejira is just a tad too smooth for me personally (excepting Black Crow). Think I just prefer it when Joni's jars and mixes up the elements a little more. And why does one have to be "really high" to truly enjoy Joni!? Geez, I think she alone is the best drug there is and doesn't need any "enhancement" to make the experience better ;-D Kakki ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #2 **************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?