From: les@jmdl.com (onlyjoni-digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyjoni-digest V1 #1 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyjoni-digest Thursday, April 8 1999 Volume 01 : Number 001 Joni the Joni Mitchell Internet Community Glossary project. Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- The Jungle Line (was Re: Faves/Least faves) [David Wright ] Re: needle exchange [Randy Remote ] Re[2]: Most/Least: TAMING THE TIGER [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: needle exchange ["Davina Greenstein" ] Re: The Video Has Arrived (JC) [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Re[2]: Most/Least: TAMING THE TIGER [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re:recordwashing [Randy Remote ] Dylan & Simon Tour Dates ["Peter Holmstedt" ] Re: The Jungle Line (was Re: Faves/Least faves) [David Wright ] [oJMDL]: Re: Jungle Line ["Travis Moser" ] [oJMDL]: Re: PWWAM video - questions/observations ["Travis Moser" ] [oJMDL]: Re: needle exchange ["Kakki" ] [oJMDL]: Re: PWWAM video - questions/observations ["Kakki" ] [oJMDL]: Re: XTC (With Added JC) [David Wright ] [oJMDL]: Re: The Jungle Line (was Re: Faves/Least faves) [Dflahm@aol.com] [oJMDL]: Re: Blue FTR Hejira/Joni interview ["Kakki" ] [oJMDL]: Re: Jungle Line [David Wright ] [oJMDL]: the Jungle Line [evian ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:22:22 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: The Jungle Line (was Re: Faves/Least faves) David Lahm wrote: > > Deb, I totally agree with you about "The Jungle Line"--it is so clear, so > fierce, so startlingly original. One of the first indications that her > innovations would go beyond lyric-writing and harmonies on into the total > setting of a mood, evoking a mood that you could call "confronting" > "threatening" "sinister"--the recognition of a new world out there she hadn't > seemed completely to bring into the music before. The easiest word for it > would be BLACK. My immediate thought is, and *why* is that? What strikes me is that the language of this post lays bare (perhaps inadvertently) the social constructs which affect how we hear, and how Joni created, The Jungle Line. As this post clearly states, American/European culture, including The Jungle Line, equates Africa/"BLACK"ness with "confronting," "threatening," and "sinister" -- otherness. This kind of symbolism is ingrained in our culture and reinforced in a lot of ways (remember also the prevalence of "white-good; dark/black-evil" metaphors in our texts -- e.g., Conrad's "Heart of Darkness"), and it's racist. I have a real problem with how Joni participates in, or plays into, this racist construction (as well as that problem with her appropriating field recordings I described recently; the two problems are not unrelated, I think). David Lahm is quite right: she surrounds those (appropriated) Burundi drums with a synthesizer line which practically begs to be heard as "sinister" and "weird." From certain lyrics, I'd like to think that on DJRD she was more aware of this cultural mechanism, and questions it. Any thoughts? > Pardon me if I have the order of albums mixed up... You don't. Take care, - --David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:39:22 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Most/Least: SHADOWS AND LIGHT Picking up where I left off... Shadows & Light 1. Amelia (7) Hejira (7) Pat's Solo (4) Shadows & Light (2) Coyote (2) Why Do Fools Fall In Love (2) Woodstock The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines Introduction (which I wouldn't have included but it got a vote) Furry Sings The Blues Black Crow Edith & The Kingpin Dreamland Nobody Picked: In France They Kiss on Main Street Goodbye Pork Pie Hat Don's Solo Free Man In Paris God Must Be A Boogie Man 2. God Must Be A Boogie Man (4) Don's Solo (4) Free Man in Paris (2) Edith & The Kingpin Furry Sings The Blues The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines Nobody Picked: The other ones ;~D ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:49:10 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Most/Least: NIGHT RIDE HOME Night Ride Home 1. Two Grey Rooms (12) Come In From the Cold (9) Slouching Toward Bethlehem (7) Cherokee Louise (6) Night Ride Home (6) Passion Play (When All The Slaves Are Free)(2) Nothing Can Be Done (2) The Only Joy In Town (2) Nobody, not even Wally K, picked: The Windfall (Everything For Nothing) Ray's Dad's Cadillac 2. The Windfall (Everything For Nothing) (11) Ray's Dad's Cadillac (6) Nothing Can Be Done (6) Two Grey Rooms (4) The Only Joy In Town ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:58:34 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Most/Least: TURBULENT INDIGO Turbulent Indigo 1. The Sire of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song) (6) Turbulent Indigo (6) Magdelene Laundries (6) How Do You Stop (4) Sunny Sanday (3) Borderline (2) Last Chance Lost (2) Sex Kills Nobody Picked: Not To Blame Yvette in English 2. Yvette in English (5) Sex Kills (5) Not To Blame (4) Last Chance Lost (4) The Sire of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song) (3) Sunny Sunday (2) Turbulent Indigo (2) How Do You Stop Borderline Nobody picked: Magdalene Laundries ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 22:16:26 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: The Jungle Line (was Re: Faves/Least faves) Very interesting point, David. I agree with both you and "the other David" on the "weird" mood evoked by that synthesizer line and the song in general, and this is probably one of the reasons why I don't like it. I think, given Joni's outspoken admiration for "black" music, calling her perspective "racist" is probably a bit too strong. Cultural differences between Europe and Africa are undeniable, and there definitely are differences in mentalities as well. They still exist, even if it needs to be pointed out that there has been a lot of overlapping and interaction going on and there is no such thing as a purely "white" or purley "black" culture anymore. These are dangerous myths. We all live in multicultural societies. Nevertheless, I don't think portraying something as alien is racist in itself. However, people are extremely quick to identify "alien" with "inferior" and that is the real birthplace of racism. Greetings to all, especially all those newbies on the list -- glad to have you here! Winfried David Wright wrote: > David Lahm wrote: > > > > Deb, I totally agree with you about "The Jungle Line"--it is so clear, so > > fierce, so startlingly original. One of the first indications that her > > innovations would go beyond lyric-writing and harmonies on into the total > > setting of a mood, evoking a mood that you could call "confronting" > > "threatening" "sinister"--the recognition of a new world out there she hadn't > > seemed completely to bring into the music before. The easiest word for it > > would be BLACK. > > My immediate thought is, and *why* is that? > What strikes me is that the language of this post lays bare > (perhaps inadvertently) the social constructs which affect how we hear, > and how Joni created, The Jungle Line. As this post clearly states, > American/European culture, including The Jungle Line, equates > Africa/"BLACK"ness with "confronting," "threatening," and "sinister" -- > otherness. This kind of symbolism is ingrained in our culture and > reinforced in a lot of ways (remember also the prevalence of "white-good; > dark/black-evil" metaphors in our texts -- e.g., Conrad's "Heart of > Darkness"), and it's racist. I have a real problem with how Joni > participates in, or plays into, this racist construction (as well as that > problem with her appropriating field recordings I described recently; the > two problems are not unrelated, I think). David Lahm is quite right: she > surrounds those (appropriated) Burundi drums with a synthesizer line which > practically begs to be heard as "sinister" and "weird." > From certain lyrics, I'd like to think that on DJRD she was more > aware of this cultural mechanism, and questions it. > Any thoughts? > > > Pardon me if I have the order of albums mixed up... > > You don't. > > Take care, > > --David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:13:40 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Most/Least: TAMING THE TIGER Taming The Tiger 1. Love Puts On A New Face (9) Harlem In Havana (9) Face Lift (4) Man From Mars (4) Lead Balloon (4) Taming The Tiger (3) Tiger Bones (3) Stay In Touch (3) My Best To You (2) No Apologies (2) The Crazy Cries Of Love All songs were picked... 2. Lead Balloon (13) No Apologies (6) Taming The Tiger (3) Man From Mars (2) Love Puts On A New Face (2) Face Lift (2) Nobody Picked: Harlem In Havana Tiger Bones Stay In Touch My Best To You The Crazy Cries Of Love And remember, these figures are for entertainment purposes only...as always, NO WAGERING!! (with a little tip of the hat to Dave Letterman) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 13:24:59 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Most/Least: TAMING THE TIGER > And remember, these figures are for entertainment purposes only...as > always, NO WAGERING!! (with a little tip of the hat to Dave Letterman) Thanks for the tip, Bob. I almost blew my whole paycheck on "Lead Balloon"..... And three cheers to you for tallying up the results!!! RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 13:36:29 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: needle exchange Kakki wrote: > Good luck in your needle search. I need a new one, too, if anyone > (Jim L.) has any good suggestions. > Needle exchange is a controversial issue these days. Just replace the whole cartridge on your turntable. There are 3 types. The ceramic cartridge is the crudest, and hopefully you are not using that, as it will ream your grooves. Probably you have a magnetic cartridge. There's the old kind, which you can identify because it's held on the arm with a couple of screws, then there's the newer "P-mount" kind that slips right on without screws. I think any reputable stereo store or chain should have them. A reasonably good one can be had for $25 or so. Radio Shack, too, maybe as a last resort. Also, J&R Music World has them. http://www.jandr.com you can call their customer service, have your make & model info for your turntable ready. Don't toss that vinyl! Thank goddess for CD's, but keep those old Sons records going too! Best, RR and happy birthday to Billie Holiday who just didn't seem like an Aries ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:40:00 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: Most/Least: TAMING THE TIGER Randy replies: <> "...and 18 bucks went up in smoke..." :~D <> No sweat, happy to do it - and there WERE some surprises I thought...I must confess though I'm glad I'm done posting the results!! ;~) Bob NP: The Doobie Brothers, "Eyes of Silver" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:00:44 -0700 From: "Davina Greenstein" Subject: Re: needle exchange Kakki wrote: > Good luck in your needle search. I need a new one, too, if anyone > (Jim L.) has any good suggestions. The Shack does carry them, Frys Electronics also carries a few, we actually picked up an Ortofon cartridge from a local dealer Kakki in the Valley that works out of his home. There's also quite a few DJ dealers that sell over the net too. What I need is a record washer to restore some of my old vinyl, does anyone have any leads on where I can find one? Davina ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:12:09 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: The Video Has Arrived (JC) In a message dated 4/7/99 1:48:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, KBarnicle@ENSR.com writes: > 's here, it's here! I just received my Painting with Words and Music Got mine on Monday while my kids were making a goofy home movie, so they got my husband and me watching it with a little commentary from my daughter about how her mom is a "Joni Mitchell nut"! We were stunned by the beauty of it all. What a band! What a class-act performance! I'm still in awe. Graham Nash's little appearance was charming. Graham Nash....still dashing after all these years...siiiiiiigh. Gina NP: news babble on npr ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:56:29 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Most/Least: TAMING THE TIGER In a message dated 4/7/99 4:44:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: << No sweat, happy to do it - and there WERE some surprises I thought...I must confess though I'm glad I'm done posting the results!! ;~) >> Bob, I'd like to thank you as well, for all the hard work put into this project. I must say, they were a lot of fun to read! Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 14:47:52 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re:recordwashing Davina Greenstein wrote: > What I need is a record washer to restore some of my old > vinyl, does anyone have any leads on where I can find one? The good old Discwasher D4+ system works well, is used by radio stations, costs about $20. The aforementioned J&R has it (or used to), also Bags Unlimited (716) 436-9006 caters to vinyphiles with protective sleeves, mailers, inner sleeves, etc. For the truly fanatical, there is the Nitty Gritty record cleaning machine, which will scrub and vaccuum your records. 5 models from $269 http://www.nittygrittyinc.com (909) 625-5525. If your records are really grungy, you can wash them your- self. I've done this with lots of records when I was DJing. In a clean bowl, add a few drops of liquid soap-not detergent- to some lukewarm-not hot!-water. For a scrubber, a new,CLEAN piece of fine grained foam rubber, velvet also works. Handling your records by the edge, scrub with the direction of the grooves, not across them. Try not to get too much soapy water on the label. Rinse thoroughly under the tap before the soap dries, again, lukewarm water, not hot!! Drip dry for a few minutes in the dishdrainer, finish drying with paper towel to avoid water spots. Never put your records in the dishwasher ;) Spin and enjoy. RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:33:47 +0200 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Dylan & Simon Tour Dates Here's the tour dates/venues for the Bob Dylan/Paul Simon tour. June 6, Colorado Springs, Colo., World Arena June 7, Denver, Colo., McNichols Arena June 9, Salt Lake City, Utah, Delta Center June 11, Vancouver, British Columbia, GM Place June 12, Portland, Ore., Rose Garden June 13, George, Wash., The Gorge June 16, Sacramento, Calif., Arco Arena June 18, Concord, Calif., Concord Pavillion June 19, Mountain View, Calif., Shoreline Amphitheatre June 20, Anaheim, Calif., Arrowhead Pond June 22, Los Angeles, Hollywood Bowl June 25, San Diego, Coors Amphitheatre June 26, Las Vegas, T.B.A. June 27, Phoenix, Ariz., Desert Sky Pavillion July 2, Minneapolis, Minn., Canterbury Downs July 3, Duluth, Minn., Bayside Park July 4, Milwaukee, Wis., Marcus Amphitheatre July 7, Detroit, Mich., Pine Knob July 9, Chicago, Ill., The World July 10, St. Louis, Mo., Riverport Amphitheatre July 11, Cincinnati, River Bend July 14, Raleigh, N.C., Walnut Creek July 16, Washington, D.C., Nissan Pavillion July 17, Philadelphia, E. Center July 18, Pittsburgh, Starlake Amphitheatre July 22-23, Mansfield, Mass., Tweeter PAC July 24, Hartford, Conn., Meadows Music Theatre July 27, New York, Madison Square Garden July 28, Holmdel, N.J., PNC Bank Center July 30-31, Wantagh, N.Y., Jones Beach Amphitheatre Tickets go on sale April 10. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 18:42:10 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: The Jungle Line (was Re: Faves/Least faves) Hi, Winfried, thanks for writing. > I think, given Joni's outspoken admiration for "black" music, calling her > perspective "racist" is probably a bit too strong. That's true. I don't mean that Joni had consciously "racist" intentions, just that I think it's appropriate to apply the term "racist" to works like The Jungle Line to mean that they reflect the racism of the society in which they were produced. (Yes, by this definition, a *lot* of things are racist, including a lot of things that I like. We live in a racist society.) > > Cultural differences between Europe and Africa are undeniable, and > there definitely are differences in mentalities as well. [snip] > > Nevertheless, I don't think portraying something as alien is racist in > itself. I agree that it's not racist to acknowledge or portray differences between cultures, but I also think "alien" can also imply this "Otherness" - -- which implies exclusion, marginalization, "us/them" oppositions -- recognizing the difference, but not the value or acceptable-ness of that difference; only its "weird," "sinister," "threatening" qualities. I think it also needs to be pointed out that a crucial element of racism is power. With the spread of capitalist American/European culture around the world, the American/European media controls the way other cultures are portrayed (and the perpetuation of stereotypes) not only in America and Europe but on an international scale in a way that other cultures in our multicultural society do not. Respectfully submitted - --David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:23:10 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Intro :) ...long but informative..... In a message dated 4/7/1999 2:49:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, M.Russell@iaea.org writes: << It is really very kind of you to share so much with the people on the list. I wonder if it would be easier for you to maybe try to get your stuff into one of the JMDL tape trees, though. Then the branch people could help with the recording and shipping, etc. I hope it all doesn't become a big burden to you. >> Could someone please share with me how I can send me Joni items to the Tape tree or CD , video tree, whatever......I want to share all my Joni items too since I know I will be making requests for all of the things I don't have...let me know and thanks! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:08:23 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: XTC (With Added JC) In a message dated 4/7/1999 1:19:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: << To me XTC's "Apple Venus Vol. 1" stands out in the 1999 musical landscape for several reasons: >> Well Bob, It looks like I will be buying the new XTC album. I heard it was good but you sealed it for me! Cat.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:18:50 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: The Video Has Arrived (JC) In a message dated 4/7/1999 5:25:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Ginamu@aol.com writes: << Got mine on Monday while my kids were making a goofy home movie, so they got my husband and me watching it with a little commentary from my daughter about how her mom is a "Joni Mitchell nut"! We were stunned by the beauty of it all. What a band! What a class-act performance! I'm still in awe. Graham Nash's little appearance was charming. Graham Nash....still dashing after all these years...siiiiiiigh. Gina >> I saw the concert on Pay-per -view on November 6,98 and had a Joni Mitchell party since her birthday was the folowing day! I made a copy of it and thought about recording the show on a tape to listen to ..The show was incredible! BTW, didn't anybody else pay to have it broadcasted? I was floored when I heard it was coming on. I had to rent the box from the cable company and everything but it was for a great cause! Loved all the comfy couches. Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:20:28 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: Re[2]: Most/Least: TAMING THE TIGER In a message dated 4/7/1999 5:30:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, TerryM2442@aol.com writes: << Bob, I'd like to thank you as well, for all the hard work put into this project. I must say, they were a lot of fun to read! Terry >> I agree too! Thanks Bob. I found it amazing thought that out of the over 600 people who are on this list less then 25 offered info...Come on people where are all of you? Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:15:38 -0700 From: "raymond" Subject: [oJMDL]: Hejira Can someone tell me the proper way to pronounce "Hejira"? Cathy NP - Tea for the Tillerman ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:48:32 -0700 From: "Travis Moser" Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: Jungle Line - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Deb Messling Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 10:31 AM Subject: Jungle Line > > Deb commented: > > < Line.">> > > Deb, > Speaking as someone who put it as a "least favorite", I'll clarify by saying > that I don't dislike it at all! I think it's just kind of a misfit on the album, > whether it's the Burundi drummers or the lyrical content or just the overall > sound of it, it stands apart from the other pop/jazz/airy songs dealing mostly > with the dark side of suburbia. Well Bob, I have to say I disagree. I think 'The Jungle Line' fits quite well into the overall concept of HOSL and if Joni ever recorded a 'concept' album, I think this is it. I wrote a post some time ago about the thread of primitivism lurking right underneath the surface of so-called civilized society that runs through this album. 'The Jungle Line' is the most blatant expression of this on the record. It insinuates itself 'through i-bars & girders through wires & pipes/the mathematic circuits of the modern nights' and later Edith hears it as 'the wires in walls are humming/some song, some mysterious song'. The song also deals with drugs which also snare the Kingpin's victims as 'he tilts their tired faces/gently to the spoon.' 'The Jungle Line' sets up the theme of something threatening that lies uncomfortably close to the surface in everyday life on any street in any town. I don't think there was any racist comment intended or any equating of the Burundi drummers with Primitivism or darkness or evil. I also don't think that 'threatening' or 'primitive' necessarily means 'bad'. The sound of those rumbling drums just happened to fit the mood & tone of the song. IThey help to give the song an exotic feel which is appropriate to the setting. Does exotic equate with racist? I'm not trying to be glib, I'm honestly asking the question. My take. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:01:26 -0700 From: "Travis Moser" Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: PWWAM video - questions/observations Bob wrote about Hejira: > It's been my favorite forever, way before she said it was hers, and I think > everyone else would say the same. Hold on there, Bob my friend. It's not everyone's favorite. I love Hejira and I will say that in terms of being beautifully crafted and certainly one of Joni's most integral works it ranks right up there with all the great classic pop albums (or whatever you want to call it). But I think some of her other records are much more interesting and more daring musically. I've always been one of the few on this list that doesn't cite Hejira as the crowning acheivement of Joni's career. Compared to say, Turbulent Indigo, I find it a little on the bland side. Heresy! Burn the Heretic! Mark in Seattle ps: Thanks Randy Remote for mentioning Billie's birthday. I was pretty sure it was today but hadn't looked it up yet. She would be 84 if she were alive today. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 21:40:41 -0500 From: "Jeffery W. Osborne" Subject: [oJMDL]: CD recorder info Greetings Friends, FredNow writes: < The hookup is as easy as running an RCA cable from your < source machine to the CD recorder, pop in a blank, and record -- if doing a < digital to digital transfer you don't have to set levels or anything. Fred, thanks for the good technical details on the SCMS code and such! It should be noted that if a stand-alone recorder has an analog input, it is subject to suffering from impedance mis-matches and susceptible to radio frequency noise interference through the hookup cable. An RCA cable does not transfer digital data, but analog. If the source and recorder are connected with an optical cable, or other digital means, then it would create a very good copy. With a CD recorder in your computer, you can extract audio to your hard drive digitally, which in theory does not vary at all from the original CD, << IF >> a CD is your original source. Then, because the CD-ROM recorder's input is also digital, you do not go through any analog cables OR circuitry, resulting in a real duplicate of the original! If your source is vinyl or cassette or videotape or live program audio, then either system is as good as the other with regard to audio quality. Wally Kairuz writes: < my computer cd recorder will add an < annoying 2-second pause between tracks when i'm trying to record opera < [opera cd's have tracks but no silence in between the tracks]. Catman was right about the Adaptec EZ-CD Creator software - it allows for setting tracks together with no 2 second spacing. I included some cuts from Danny Elfman's The Nightmare Before Christmas on my first DCD mix, and it has songs that blend into each other. Came out great! That software came bundled with both the Sony and Mitsumi drives I purchased. It has tools to create and print cool CD jewel case liners, too. I use Word-97 to make mine, though. Better graphics control. Best Buy sells a deluxe version of that same Adaptec software for about $50. Wally, you might search the software your using to see if there isn't a switch or option buried in a menu somewhere to let you avoid the gap. Hey, thanks Wally, for appointing Catgirl as the JMDL Mother Teresa - touching sentiment :-) I pay about $1.40 for Verbatim brand blank CDs at Sam's Club ($27.95 for 20 in jewel cases). I have found that the stupid, expensive re-writable CDs will only play back in the recorder it was made in (in audio mode). For computer data, re-writables can be read by any computer CD-ROM drive. Hi Alison! Eric - quit smoking! Bob, merci for the lists - good work. Debra, can I send you some flower pictures? Who here loves Brack? Here is a gift for you all: Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything. - - Plato Happy trails! Jeffo - - can't dance - ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 19:55:19 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: needle exchange Randy, Davina and Maurice, Thanks so much for the needle info. I've felt lost about this for awhile. Went to Radio Shack recently and they were not much help - said I had to order one and it costs over $100 as they gave me a look like I just emerged from a cave! Great advice on the Disc-washing, too! A couple months ago I unearthed my old Discwasher from the bottom of a long forgotten box of books. Bought it back in the 70s and I recall it was very expensive back then - around $20. Seems the price has not gone up! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 20:24:24 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: PWWAM video - questions/observations Mark wrote: >But I think some of her other records are much more interesting >and more daring musically. I've always been one of the few on this >list that doesn't cite Hejira as the crowning acheivement of Joni's >career. Compared to say, Turbulent Indigo, I find it a little on the >bland side. > >Heresy! Burn the Heretic! Twin of spirit and fellow heretically scourged one! It's funny how, although we all love Joni equally, the biggest "schism" I've noticed is between the Hejira fave and non-Hejira fave contingents. More specifically, it seems to ultimately boil down to a FTR vs. Hejira preference in the absolute fave category. I felt even more in the minority when Joni herself came out and declared Hejira her own favorite. Then again maybe she will change her mind one of these days ;-) There is overwhelming brilliance and beauty all through Hejira, but still.....it is bland to my personal heart & soul frequency compared to FTR and some of the others. I've tried to repent and change my ways but am hopelessly incorrigible on this one. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:58:20 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: PWWAM video - questions/observations Kakki wrote: >Twin of spirit and fellow heretically scourged one! It's funny how, >although we all love Joni equally, the biggest "schism" I've noticed is >between the Hejira fave and non-Hejira fave contingents. More specifically, >it seems to ultimately boil down to a FTR vs. Hejira preference in the >absolute fave category. I felt even more in the minority when Joni herself >came out and declared Hejira her own favorite. Then again maybe she will >change her mind one of these days ;-) There is overwhelming brilliance and >beauty all through Hejira, but still.....it is bland to my personal heart & >soul frequency compared to FTR and some of the others. I've tried to repent >and change my ways but am hopelessly incorrigible on this one. Don't forget Blue. That's been picked as a favourite many times (myself included) since I joined the list, and that's only a month or so! But I must say, I'm a little fickle, in that I have different favourites for different reasons. Blue is my favourite purely for the lyrics and emotions it conjures, simply due to the time in my life that I discovered it; Hejira is my favourite all-round - lyrically, musically, emotionally; Wild Things Run Fast has a special meaning, because it was my first Joni album, and I wore it out before finding another; Turbulent Indigo rates as well, I love the full sound of the guitar, and the lyrics blow me away; Court and Spark is my favourite "driving" album; etc., etc., etc.! So it's never an easy choice - and for same reasons, I found picking a most/least favourite song from each album, damn near impossible, and nearly gave up. Even now I look back at my choices and think - no, that's not the one I should have picked! And I honestly didn't know that Joni had said that Hejira was her favourite when I started this thread - must have been something in the way she sang them! Helen NP - Mamas and Papas - If You Can Believe Your Ears and Eyes ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 00:07:56 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: Hejira Cathy asked: <> I've heard Joni pronounce it: heh-JEER-a. E.T. NP: Ray of Light ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 00:19:34 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: XTC (With Added JC) Gina wrote: > > Sounds really nice but pretty much the same sort of good thing that > they've been putting out for some years now? Am I mistaken? Bob wrote: > > Gina, I had to smile at the last comment you made here...after all, > isn't what most of the uninformed out there say about our beloved Joni? ??? I thought the standard complaint about Joni was exactly the opposite -- she doesn't make melodic, folky albums like Blue and C&S anymore, doesn't sing "The Circle Game" and "Both Sides Now," -- won't paint a starry night again, or whatever it is. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 00:46:07 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: The Jungle Line (was Re: Faves/Least faves) David, I could see the possibility that Mitchell's moving to America and further up the ladder as a professional musician brought her rather quickly into contact with many more black people than she'd known earlier in her life. As someone who takes human interchange seriously, probably doesn't go in for small-talk, she might well have had some memorable--painful, thrilling, illuminating--conversations and relationships with black people (most likely men). In "The Jungle Line", I get the impression that what is black is painted as having considerably more vitality than what is white. When I used the word "sinister", I was using it to suggest STRANGENESS, ATTRACTIVE MYSTERY, better yet (Although unfortunately clinical-sounding) SOMETHING WHICH IS ANXIETY-PRODUCING rather than moral deficiency or evil. And I don't believe that JM was writing a tract. The song (like all her songs, like all songs) is first and foremost a work of the imagination. It seems so bold and confident that I was surprised at its being the Least Fave of so many posters. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 22:01:39 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: Blue FTR Hejira/Joni interview Helen wrote: >Don't forget Blue. That's been picked as a favourite many times (myself >included) since I joined the list, and that's only a month or so! Of course, I thought of Blue, too, right after I hit send! Argh. Guess I was thinking too much of the radical FTR underground here on the list with whom I've had private raves. They know who they are, but I'm not naming names! >So it's never an easy choice - and for same reasons, I found picking a >most/least favourite song from each album, damn near impossible, and nearly >gave up. Even now I look back at my choices and think - no, that's not the >one I should have picked! I have the same agony - to me it's like trying to choose between the 4 oz. and the 8 oz. Filet Mignon. >And I honestly didn't know that Joni had said that Hejira was her favourite >when I started this thread - must have been something in the way she sang >them! I believe she mentioned it at the taping and also in several of her interviews recently. Speaking of which, the uncut version of the interview just up on Wally's site is really revelatory. Is it just me, or does Joni seem to be becoming even more forthcoming than usual lately? Although she addresses old ground in several areas (record biz blues, artistic intergrity, etc.) she really seems to be laying it all out more passionately than ever. I get the feeling she is really intent on being better understood. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 01:58:38 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: [oJMDL]: Re: Jungle Line Mark, thanks for your truly thoughtful post and I enjoyed your remarks about HOSL as a concept album. Mark wrote: > > I don't think there was any racist comment intended or any equating of > the Burundi drummers with Primitivism or darkness or evil. I also > don't think that 'threatening' or 'primitive' necessarily means 'bad'. But you said above that The Jungle Line is the most blatant expression of the thread of primitivism running through HOSL. I agree with that interpretation, actually. My question is, why the equation in The Jungle Line (and elsewhere) of the Burundi drummers with "primitive" and "threatening," whether those things are bad or not (I think it's arguable), when the Burundi drummers are *not* primitive or threatening? (Threatening whom, and with what?) > They help to give the song an exotic feel which is > appropriate to the setting. Does exotic equate with racist? I'm not > trying to be glib, I'm honestly asking the question. Thanks for doing so! And I'll try to answer honestly (if maybe indirectly)....I think the thing is, "exotic" is almost always applied to non-Western (frequently Asian, in my experience) cultural products -- I doubt you would ever see "exotic" used to describe, say, a western classical music piece, even a very unusual one (unless of course it was influenced by Asian or other non-western music), or a painting by Van Gogh. Just like there are some (derogatory) adjectives that are sexist because they are usually only applied to women -- "bitchy," "catty," "hysterical" (in its "neurotic" meaning; from the same root as "hysterectomy"). This usage of "exotic" seems to me to imply that elements/products of our white culture *transcend* race and culture; "exotic" marks something that exists in the west only as a foreign ("other") element -- it does not transcend. "Exotic" has another bad connotation too; coincidentally, I was just sending a friend some lyrics from an album by Sami singer Mari Boine Persen. The Sami, as I mentioned the other day, are the native people of northern Scandanavia and suffered the same sort of oppression under white European rule as the native Americans and Australians -- systematic destruction of culture and language, forced assimilation, and prejudice. She writes powerful, scathing political lyrics (in Sami) rooted in her "rebellion against her own role as an inferior Lappish woman in the great Norwegian society." (She's also a great singer -- the album is _Gula Gula_.) One of her songs says: Your power has no color You are a white thief... [snip] We are exotic to be stolen for mere decoration (from "White Thief") Have to go now Heavy day of posting for me - --David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 00:01:26 -0600 From: evian Subject: [oJMDL]: the Jungle Line All this talk about "The Jungle Line" is really interesting. Maybe I have been missing the point all these years, but the reason that I thought that people maybe don't react positively to "The Jungle Line" is just because it marks such a departure for Joni. I didn't get into Joni until '88, and my first Joni albums were Blue, CMIARS, C&S, and Hejira. Then I got HOSL in '90, and I could tell that was a VAST change for her... it wasn't that I didn't like it... it was more that I was expecting another album that sounded like a prototype of Blue, or FTR, or C&S, or whatever. Then, when I heard "The Jungle Line", I thought "whoa baby, this marks an end of an era" in some way. Joni took a huge gamble I think by "branching out" or whatever you want to call it with HOSL instead of making C&S, Part Two. So anyway, I wasn't all that impressed with "The Jungle Line" for quite a while because it seemed to stick out like a sore thumb. Of course, now that I have seen the error of my ways, and am obsessed with the album, "The Jungle Line" is one of my fave tracks. Anyway, I just assumed people weren't all that receptive to it because of its startling "difference" from the rest of Joni's work up to that point. Evian ------------------------------ End of onlyjoni-digest V1 #1 **************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. 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