From: owner-navy-soup-digest@smoe.org (navy-soup-digest) To: navy-soup-digest@smoe.org Subject: navy-soup-digest V3 #92 Reply-To: navy-soup@smoe.org Sender: owner-navy-soup-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-navy-soup-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk navy-soup-digest Friday, May 26 2000 Volume 03 : Number 092 In This Digest: ----------------- IMPORTANT WORLD CAFE INFORMATION [time sensitive!] [Ian Mullins ] woah. ["roberto w" ] Sorry. ["Sophie" ] RE: Sorry. ["Julian C. Dunn" ] Industry Folk (Re: Live footage, religion, etc.) [rturingan@dico.com] Re: Face The Music CD Links [rturingan@dico.com] Re: OAC: Lenni Jabour (was: Heather's slacking off :) ) [What? Management] Re: Live footage, religion, etc. [What? Management ] Re: Industry Folk (Re: Live footage, religion, etc.) [What? Management Subject: IMPORTANT WORLD CAFE INFORMATION [time sensitive!] HI GUYS, it's Ian.. Sorry I haven't replied to any of the HUGE argum-..err.. DEBATES I seem to have started but I've been really busy.. so busy that I FORGOT (as some of you have, I see) that WORLD CAFE WAS AIRING! HOWEVER.. please go to this address for IMPORTANT INFORMATION ON THIS that I have posted on a forum.. (yes, my nick is spark there) http://www.atwebsites.com/forums/Forum23/HTML/003245.html#1 Thank you! ===== - - Ian Web author of Tori's Beauty ..and a Gun Exclusive Covers and Remixes, Live MP3s, and more! http://home.ican.net/~crashy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 00:16:11 -0600 From: Trav Leippi Subject: Face The Music CD Links Here are some links that I managed to dig online: http://www.absound.ca/music/search/ms-2.cgi?upc=074642406827&history=searchMedium%3DCD%26hitLow%3D0%26searchtype%3Dcontains%26searchby%3Dtitle%26searchfor%3Dface%2Bthe%2Bmusic%26page_limit%3D25 I think this might be the cd, don't quote me on it. goto hmv.ca type in face the music and it should be the last cd on the page in the lower right of the page released on 2000-04-25. or the best link http://www.chapters.ca/music/details/Default.asp?mscssid=D06U2F5X61SR2GXD00A3HC2N3MHV90W4&WSID=02057638760031B211D4876F00508B62B01D1225&UPC=074642406827 here's the track list. (from chapters.ca), They have the release date as :August 11, 2000. SO take heed before buying online. 1. Philosopher Kings - If I Ever Lose This Heaven 2. Shawn Mullins - What is Life 3. 54.40 - Ocean Pearl 4. Kula Shaker - Shower Your Love 5. Melanie Doane - Goliath 6. Just Felt Right - Dunk 7. Prozzak - Wild Thing 8. Len - Steal My Sunshine 9. Edwin - Hang Ten 10. Esthero - That Girl 11. Econoline Crush - Sparkle & Shine 12. Emm Gryner - Summerlong 13. Sarah Slean - I Know 14. Jars of Clay - Crazy Times 15. Jazmin - Don't Push Hope this helps all ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:44:00 PDT From: "roberto w" Subject: woah. i cant believe the volume of this list lately. i feel compelled to share my valuable insightful views with all of you. this will be a lengthy discourse on a. the difference between legal and illegal live recordings b. sharing those recordings with others c. bootlegging (something else altogether) d. how all of the above make sense thanks to copyright law. if this sounds really boring to you (it only started to fascinate me once i found myself in a disagreement and i was being ripped off) then just skip down to the end and read the little story about julian. that is the important part. bootlegging.. (selling unauthorized copies of published works) is illegal almost everywhere in the world except for places like italy and greece where the legal loopholes are so big the law becomes only an academic issue. making copies of published works such as computer software, audio titles etc is VERY LEGAL. you may legally make as many copies of windows98 as you like as long as all of them are for you alone and you only use one of those copies at any given time.. this is your license agreement. when you purchase intellectual property like this the only thing you actually gain ownership of is the media that it was delivered to you on. ie: compact disc. what you are really paying for is a license to use that material. often a copy of the agreement is included with purchase, stating specific terms such as only to be installed on one computer at a time, not to be used for public broadcast etc etc. often cds say on the case "not to be duplicated" (among other things).. not only wouldnt a record label take a regular joe shmoe to court over copies made for personal use because it would be a big waste of money, if they did they would surely lose. why should you pay $20 for a cd or $500 for software and then have to pay it again because a $1 cd got scratched? anyways that doesnt really affect anyones lives in a major way but i thought it was interesting. unauthorized live recordings are NOT bootlegs and not necessarily illegal. anything you do in someone's private property.. (tavern or home) is illegal if you do it against their wishes. to put it simply: if there is a sign on the wall that says "no recording", the instant you start recording you cease to be the venue's guest and become a trespasser. the host may ask you to stop or ask you to leave or even call the authorities if you refuse etc. they may not confiscate your recording equipment or your wedding ring or any other personal property you may have with you. (have you ever had to relinquish ownership of your car to the city because you parked under a no-parking sign?) they may however insist that any recordings already made be destroyed. so it isnt illegal to record any show unless you are told that the venue will not allow it. they may "not allow it" for any reason they like because it is their property and if you dont like their rules you can leave. typically the reasons are that the performer (who the venue has hired) does not wish it and as part of their business agreement, the venue will not record or allow others to record the performance) most larger venues have a standard policy that recording of any kind is not allowed (unless, of course,the performer wishes it to be allowed. this would then be part of their business agreement. dave mathews band for instance). most smaller venues have no such policies. one of my personal pet peeves is that many people do not differentiate between "home-made" live recordings (commonly referred to as bootlegs) and real bootlegs (fake copies of cds that you can buy in stores) i dont even know what people call those. so to be wordy.. live recordings are only illegal if they are made illegally. specifically, this means made against the wishes of the venue owner. whether the performer wishes or does not wish to allow recording of their shows, it is up to the performer to make sure that wishes of the venue coincide with their own. it is up to the venue operators to make their wishes known to their guests. distributing these recordings to others is another issue altogether. im not positive about this but im pretty sure that it is illegal to sell these recordings without the permission of the performer even if they had authorized the making of the recording. and heather is quite right. trading the recordings and even giving them away would fall under the same category as selling them. while you may have made the recording legally and have ownership over the original tapes, and quite legally make as many copies for yourself as you wish... as soon as you give one of those copies to someone else you are essentially PUBLISHING intellectual property NOT BELONGING TO YOU (whether you sell it for $0.00 or $x.xx) without the agreement of the owner of that intellectual property. this is the simplest example - i'll use the internet because i had a copyright disagreement with a client that i created a website for a couple years ago. i take a photograph of my dog. i own the publishing rights to this photo. whether i register it or not, the instant i create a photo or poem or novel or webpage, copyright laws protect my rights. i put this photo of my dog on my web site. i have given myself permission to publish the photo. julian surfs on by to my site and sees this magnificent snapshot of my stupid dog and downloads a copy of it to his computer. at this point julian hasnt broken any law. by publishing the photo in a freely accessible media i have granted julian permission to view it. this holds true if he sees it on my web page or on the copy made on his desktop or even if he prints a copy and puts it on his fridge. however the second that low-down dirty bastard puts that photo on HIS website or the cover of his latest book or even sends it as an attachment on an email to his mother, he has broken THE LAW!! because now he is PUBLISHING my work without my permission. i only gave MYSELF permission to let people see it for free. not julian or anyone else. doesnt matter if he is selling it or giving it away because he doesnt have my permission to republish the photo. and julian is smart enough to know better. look at this wisdom below: >say that two topics I was taught by my father not to discuss are >politics, >and religion too true! suitable discussion only among friends i think. as the (vulgar) saying goes.. "politics (and make no mistake, religions are political) are like farts. everyone else's stink" r. http://www.soundcheck.ca ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 05:50:10 -0400 From: "Sophie" Subject: Sorry. My ISP is fudged again and sending out emails at weird times. I don't know why. I sent that other email out at 6am yesterday, obviously today the point is moot. Please ignore it. It's weird cause I sent other emails after that that came through. : / I am dying for cable or DSL to get to my area so I can dump this lousy ISP and hook up high speed. Sorry about all that. Soph PS> I like the direction of this debate, I'm learning a lot about the music industry. For some reason, I thought artists were made if they only got one number 1 single. Kinda like writing a best-selling book and making $500K off of it. It's interesting to see how it really works. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 03:42:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Julian C. Dunn" Subject: RE: Sorry. On 25-May-2000 Sophie wrote: > My ISP is fudged again and sending out emails at weird times. I don't know > why. I sent that other email out at 6am yesterday, obviously today the point > is moot. Please ignore it. It's weird cause I sent other emails after that > that came through. : / It's not your ISP; your message bounced because it was too long and I had to redirect it manually. You can usually check if that's the case by searching for a header of the form: X-Authentication-Warning: network.dreaming.org: julian set sender to soph@mail.triton.net using -f or something like that. - - Julian [ Julian C. Dunn - jdunn@aquezada.com WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/ ] [ FuE exfe94 a+++ Ifte/slc lonca r- ps++ bs+ t++/*t C+++$/C! w+++ p7 LF+++ ] [N++/N! cd350 pr++ g+++ S-/S *x++ Fa+++/Fa$/Fa! m1 b+ fc+++/ E>+ rl-- *d s!] [ "and any love remaining, i can't share anymore - ] [ 'cause by the time it gets to you, it's a little war" - emm gryner ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 09:14:46 -0400 From: rturingan@dico.com Subject: Industry Folk (Re: Live footage, religion, etc.) I will have to agree with James. I have met a lot of industry folk over the past couple of years. Many of them are super nice. Joni Daniels and Michael Murphy who have worked with Emm Gryner are two of the best industry folk I know. Another great industry grrl is Karen Pacewho works for Nettwerk here in Toronto. I know Tab will agree one me on that one. Karen has worked with quite a few names in the industry, and althought she may seem a tad busy at times, she is a sweet heart when it comes down to it. Along with Karen, her colleagues at the Nettwerk Head Office are really cool people as well. I was over at their offices when I was on Vacation in Vancouver a month ago. And they were super friendly folk. The problem with the industry is that it is bigger than itself. (does that make sense?) There are so many good down to earth people who work in the industry, but they are all a small part of a bigger machine that they have little control over. Cheers Rannie > >Needless to say the whole concept of the "music > >industry" leaves a bad taste in my mouth. > Not all of us are bad... honest! I'll second that... Heather is one of the nicest people and most accomodating managers I've met, but there are hoards of good, nice, decent people in the music industry. William Tenn, Joni Daniels, Michael Murphy, Alex de Cartier, Jude Coombs, you might recognize these people from liner notes, but I've seen every single one of them at the same shows I go to and not once because they had to be there. They talk with the same fondness, reverence and wonder at these artists as you do. The weasels are the lawyers, the big agents, and those assistant vps and even then a lot of them are ok folk too. It's the paradigm under which they operate I find off putting, that music and musicians are a commodity, to be bought and sold like a steel girder. (I know I use the industry term 'product' a lot. i.e. Does this person have product? But it's my bizarre humour... honest.) Even at the major level there are a lot of good people sluggin' away in the trenches. :-) James. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 09:22:47 -0400 From: rturingan@dico.com Subject: Re: Face The Music CD Links Thanks Travis.... I was actually at HMV last night and found it tucked away in the back corner of the store.. found it mostly by accident... Cheers Rannie Here are some links that I managed to dig online: http://www.absound.ca/music/search/ms-2.cgi?upc=074642406827&history=searchMedium%3DCD%26hitLow%3D0%26searchtype%3Dcontains%26searchby%3Dtitle%26searchfor%3Dface%2Bthe%2Bmusic%26page_limit%3D25 I think this might be the cd, don't quote me on it. goto hmv.ca type in face the music and it should be the last cd on the page in the lower right of the page released on 2000-04-25. or the best link http://www.chapters.ca/music/details/Default.asp?mscssid=D06U2F5X61SR2GXD00A3HC2N3MHV90W4&WSID=02057638760031B211D4876F00508B62B01D1225&UPC=074642406827 here's the track list. (from chapters.ca), They have the release date as :August 11, 2000. SO take heed before buying online. 1. Philosopher Kings - If I Ever Lose This Heaven 2. Shawn Mullins - What is Life 3. 54.40 - Ocean Pearl 4. Kula Shaker - Shower Your Love 5. Melanie Doane - Goliath 6. Just Felt Right - Dunk 7. Prozzak - Wild Thing 8. Len - Steal My Sunshine 9. Edwin - Hang Ten 10. Esthero - That Girl 11. Econoline Crush - Sparkle & Shine 12. Emm Gryner - Summerlong 13. Sarah Slean - I Know 14. Jars of Clay - Crazy Times 15. Jazmin - Don't Push Hope this helps all ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 11:13:10 -0400 From: What? Management Subject: Re: OAC: Lenni Jabour (was: Heather's slacking off :) ) >Heather, you have any "inside info" as to what she's >up to? Nope, sorry, I don't. Other than writing and demoing, that is. I think she's being managed by Steve Hoffman (Tea Party?) right now, so hopefully things will start to move forward for her again. H. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 11:39:51 -0400 From: What? Management Subject: Re: Live footage, religion, etc. >I'll second that... Heather is one of the nicest people and most >accomodating managers I've met Oh stop it! You know I don't have any money, James... :) >Even >at the major level there are a lot of good people sluggin' away in the >trenches. :-) I like to believe that 99.9% of the folks in the business ended up here because we share a common passion for music. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 11:39:53 -0400 From: What? Management Subject: Re: Industry Folk (Re: Live footage, religion, etc.) >The problem with the industry is that it is bigger than itself. (does that >make >sense?) There are so many good down to earth people who work in the industry, >but they are all a small part of a bigger machine that they have little >control >over. I think that it's a "better" and "cleaner" industry than it was previously, believe it or not. The days of Tin Pan Alley (where writers slaved and slaved and handed over all their rights) are (relatively) over. Didn't the incredible Billie Holiday die with less than a dollar?! I do think that the majors ask for way too much for what they give, but the amount of money they spend and lose on "failed" artists makes it almost necessary. (I'm not defending, just stating a fact.) And big artists with big debts like Toni Braxton and TLC are still mostly responsible for what's being spent on their behalf. (An entourage of 20 people is not inexpensive to maintain!) And we can beat the crap out of the industry as much as we want, but the bottom line is that every artist is responsible for their own actions. No one holds a gun to someone's head and makes them sign on the dotted line. If an artist isn't sure it's a great deal, they should simply walk away. It's about education and a clear view of where they would like to be and how they're going to get there. H. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:00:43 PDT From: "Tab Siddiqui" Subject: Re: Heather has time on her hands (was Re: Live footage, religion, etc.) James wrote: >Suzie has a new video too, which y'all have to request so I can see Really? For which song? Would love to see that... >it. It aired on CMT I think and Much at least once. We can't let Neko >Case >just show some cleavage (or other stuff) and hog all the press ;-) I nearly had a heart attack over that recent eye Magazine shot. ;-P ;-) >Hawksley's album is fine, he's working with Tegan and Sara on some >production as well... which will sound great if they don't tease him to >death first. LOL, exactly. ;) Those two have got potential, and I think Hawksley's just enough of a character to help mold (or maybe exaberate? ) their more idiosyncratic leanings. Should be cool stuff... - - Tab :) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:12:22 PDT From: "Tab Siddiqui" Subject: Re: Heather has time on her hands (was Re: Live footage, religion, etc.) Heather wrote: >I believe it's called "Face The Music". I haven't actually seen a copy >of >it, but I do have an office copy coming from Sony. Maybe you could >find it >online at Sony-something-or-other? I heard it was supposed to come out earlier, but has been pushed back to August, as the Chapters Online blurb seems to confirm. >delight), and I'm helping out a wonderful multi-faceted artist named >Spine >(Todor Kobakov). He made an album in his bedroom a few years ago >and Sarah >sang on a couple of tracks, which is how I heard of him. >He's putting a >live show together, so hopefully you can all check him >out! Now this is very good news! I've been hoping for that for awhile now... :) I totally second James' plea for more Spine material! >He's produced a track for Lenni Jabour and has done a remix for >Damhnait >Doyle. There are Ack! Want. To. Hear. Both. Those. NOW! ;-) Okay, I think we must all be drinking the same water or something (and not that scary e. coli-infested stff, either ;-P), 'cause these recommendations are name-for-name what several of us on NS would cite right now. :-) >digging: Oh Susanna is working on a new album (I'm listening to demos > >right now - lovely), Can't wait! There's nothing quite like a dark, keening country ballad. >Sarah Harmer kicks some serious ass (in a nice way, of >course), In all kinds of ways. If you don't already have her new album, get yourself over to sarahharmer.com and order it *now*. :) >Danny Michel, Me 'n Andrea are gonna fight to the death over DM. Right, Andy? ;-) >love Feist, Go back and see what I said about Sarah Harmer, and then go on over to Feist's site to get the lovely "Monarch". When's she gonna record more stuff?! >can't get that Starling single out of my head, I'm completely perplexed as to why this song hasn't broken huge yet. I'm convinced that with enough airplay, it'll be *the* song of the summer - no one can resist that hooky chorus! Give it another couple weeks, and you'll be hearing the person next to you humming, "Try a little harder, don't deflate yet." ;-) >Hawksley Workman ("I hate to break it to you baby but we're the last >on earth" - sing it, man!), No, no, no - it's all about "no sissies for your love..." I *love* that song - there's yet another tune that deserves to be HUGE. >Veal has some great pop tunes, etc... etc... Some of you might know Veal as Luke Doucet's - Sarah McLachlan's old guitarist - new band... In severe Sarah withdrawal, anxiously awaiting that Harbourfront gig, - - Tab :) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 20:22:02 -0500 From: "James McGarry" Subject: Re: Heather has time on her hands (was Re: Live footage, religion, etc.) - ----- Original Message ----- From: Tab Siddiqui To: ; Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 7:00 PM Subject: Re: Heather has time on her hands (was Re: Live footage, religion, etc.) > James wrote: > > >Suzie has a new video too, which y'all have to request so I can see > > Really? For which song? Would love to see that... Tangled and Wild, which is pretty much her signature song these days... now, the 'wild' part I understand :-) the 'tangled' part, I'm not so sure. > >it. It aired on CMT I think and Much at least once. We can't let Neko >Case > >just show some cleavage (or other stuff) and hog all the press ;-) > > I nearly had a heart attack over that recent eye Magazine shot. ;-P ;-) It was the talk of every news room in the city ;-) She and Carolyn Mark get purdy crazy sometimes. Y'all take care, James. (Too much CMT or too many calls south of the Mason-Dixon, who can tell?) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 20:26:00 -0500 From: "James McGarry" Subject: Re: Heather has time on her hands (was Re: Live footage, religion, etc.) - ----- Original Message ----- From: Tab Siddiqui Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 7:12 PM > Some of you might know Veal as Luke Doucet's - Sarah McLachlan's old > guitarist - new band... And others might know them as Oh Suzie's back up band on occasion. They rawk. Veal did a RadioSonic about a year ago... way cool. I'm tempted to use some journalistic cheese and say, "veal never tasted so good..." James. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:36:31 PDT From: "Tab Siddiqui" Subject: Re: Heather has time on her hands (was Re: Live footage, religion, etc.) James wrote: >>>Suzie has a new video too, which y'all have to request so I can see >> >>Really? For which song? Would love to see that... > >Tangled and Wild, which is pretty much her signature song these >days... >now, the 'wild' part I understand :-) the 'tangled' part, I'm >not so sure. ;-)! My favorite Suzie song, too! We'd better start requesting that sucker! >>>it. It aired on CMT I think and Much at least once. We can't let Neko >>>Case just show some cleavage (or other stuff) and hog all the >>>press >>>;-) >> >>I nearly had a heart attack over that recent eye Magazine shot. ;-P ;-) > >It was the talk of every news room in the city ;-) She and Carolyn >Mark >get purdy crazy sometimes. So I hear. Anyone go to either of the T.O. Neko Case shows? I missed both but really wanted to go and heard they were smokin'. >Y'all take care, > >James. (Too much CMT or too many calls south of the Mason-Dixon, who >can >tell?) LOL! Tsk, James, you're not supposed to *admit* watching CMT! Geez! ;-P - - Tab :) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of navy-soup-digest V3 #92 ******************************