From: owner-navy-soup-digest@smoe.org (navy-soup-digest) To: navy-soup-digest@smoe.org Subject: navy-soup-digest V3 #90 Reply-To: navy-soup@smoe.org Sender: owner-navy-soup-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-navy-soup-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk navy-soup-digest Wednesday, May 24 2000 Volume 03 : Number 090 In This Digest: ----------------- Re: Live footage, religion, etc. ["Julian C. Dunn" ] thoughts about bootlegging ["Julian C. Dunn" ] Of recording and religion ["Chris C / iCE" ] Re: Of recording and religion ["James McGarry" ] Re: Live footage, religion, etc. ["James McGarry" ] Re: Live footage, religion, etc. [What? Management ] Re: thoughts about bootlegging [What? Management ] Re: Of recording and religion [What? Management ] Re: Live footage, religion, etc. [What? Management ] Re: Religion [What? Management ] Heather has time on her hands (was Re: Live footage, religion, etc.) [rtu] Re: Heather has time on her hands (was Re: Live footage, religion , etc.) [alicia_lightfoot@zdnet.com (ATTN! Alicia's new address is alicia_lightfoot@zdnet.co] RE: Heather has time on her hands (was Re: Live footage, religion , etc.) [rturingan@dico.c] Re: Religion ["Sophie" ] Re: Live footage, religion, etc. ["James McGarry" ] Re: Heather has time on her hands (was Re: Live footage, religion , etc.) ["James McGarry" ] Re: Live footage, religion, etc. ["James McGarry" ] Re: Heather has time on her hands (was Re: Live footage, religion, etc.) ["James McGarry" ] NEC/NSC: University of Western Ontario ["Justine L" ] Re: Heather has time on her hands (was Re: Live footage, religion, etc.) [What? Management Subject: Re: Live footage, religion, etc. On Tue, 23 May 2000, What? Management wrote: > It's funny to me that no one has touched on the fact that bootlegging is > *illegal*! At the risk of having myself excoriated here in a public forum, I would say that we tend to not think of bootlegging as illegal because it's become as commonplace as illegally duplicating CDs, or downloading MP3s. In an age where Napster has found its way into our common vocabulary, one tends to think that bootlegging is the least of many evils. - - Julian (who's secretly proud that he slipped the word 'excoriated' into an e-mail message :) ) [ Julian C. Dunn - jdunn@aquezada.com WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/ ] [ FuE exfe94 a+++ Ifte/slc lonca r- ps++ bs+ t++/*t C+++$/C! w+++ p7 LF+++ ] [N++/N! cd350 pr++ g+++ S-/S *x++ Fa+++/Fa$/Fa! m1 b+ fc+++/ E>+ rl-- *d s!] [ "and any love remaining, i can't share anymore - ] [ 'cause by the time it gets to you, it's a little war" - emm gryner ] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 00:35:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Julian C. Dunn" Subject: thoughts about bootlegging I guess I ought to have read -all- of my mail before firing off a reply. I just wanted to say that I'm mostly in agreement with Meredith's position. All technical and legal mumbo-jumbo aside, if the artist has given permission for the taping to occur, with the understanding that the end product isn't to be used or replicated commercially, then I think there really are no remaining issues with making that recording. The flipside of it is that if the artist decides that s/he will *not* allow recordings, then any recording made should be considered illegal. End of story. Just a few words about the religion thread, while I'm at it. I don't think Sophie was trying to censor anyone when she made that comment about preferring not to discuss religion on the list. In her defense, I have to say that two topics I was taught by my father not to discuss are politics, and religion -- they frequently, although not always, wind up inciting a flame war, and I think that is the sentiment she was trying to get across. I think it's unfair to read into one's specific religious beliefs based on making remarks of that sort. (For what it's worth, I hold the same opinion, and I'm Roman Catholic.) Anyway, so far we've avoided inducing a flame war, so let's all play nice and try and keep it that way. While I'm certainly not one to impose my personal taboos upon the topics of discussion here, everyone involved should simply be aware that you are playing with fire :-) - - Julian [ Julian C. Dunn - jdunn@aquezada.com WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/ ] [ FuE exfe94 a+++ Ifte/slc lonca r- ps++ bs+ t++/*t C+++$/C! w+++ p7 LF+++ ] [N++/N! cd350 pr++ g+++ S-/S *x++ Fa+++/Fa$/Fa! m1 b+ fc+++/ E>+ rl-- *d s!] [ "and any love remaining, i can't share anymore - ] [ 'cause by the time it gets to you, it's a little war" - emm gryner ] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 01:58:27 -0400 From: "Chris C / iCE" Subject: Of recording and religion It's been a while since the mailing list has exploded into this big hall of discussion and opinion-sharing. I'm definitely impressed. My opinion is that there are some artists that just can't be captured through a little microphone -- it's just too much of a personal experience that one must be encompassed with. My guess with Sarah is that she wants her performances to be more intimate than what a digital recording can provide. Like an art show or a display at the museum, you can't just take it home with you. There is a boot of the 020499 show floating about on the Internet and such -- but as beautiful as the quality of the music is, there's an essence of the _concert_ that's missing. Being a dedicated fan myself, I can't possibly let an audio recording replace the memory of an experience. I find it much more precious to remain something only remembered, and never refreshed. Chris adment.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 08:53:04 -0400 From: "James McGarry" Subject: Re: Of recording and religion - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris C / iCE" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 1:58 AM > of the _concert_ that's missing. Being a dedicated fan myself, I can't > possibly let an audio recording replace the memory of an experience. I find > it much more precious to remain something only remembered, and never > refreshed. And some people wonder why I've trekked to about 50 shows... through bad weather and on occasion when I was quite ill... I just needed to feel that music reverberate in my chest, again. You can't get the same thing with speakers. James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 09:13:09 -0400 From: "James McGarry" Subject: Re: Live footage, religion, etc. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julian C. Dunn" Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 12:04 AM > At the risk of having myself excoriated here in a public forum, I would > say that we tend to not think of bootlegging as illegal because it's > become as commonplace as illegally duplicating CDs, or downloading MP3s. > In an age where Napster has found its way into our common vocabulary, one > tends to think that bootlegging is the least of many evils. And then let me steer the discussion in one of my strange little tangents... ya know, actually I think I talked about this with Emm once. A long, long, long time ago, (though not so long for us Keltoi), people didn't own their songs, they were a gift from the gods. And musicians were revered as priests, they didn't accumulate 'wealth' per se, but their needs were met, food, lodging, clothing, so they could concentrate on improving our spiritual well-being. (Admittedly it wasn't wholly the panacea I'm purporting, since there was little protection from their patrons, etc. etc. - but his is a more enlightened age.) Now... I think it's going back to that, slowly and maybe not to the extent it once was, but, think, Napster, boots (and not the Fluevog kind ;-) ) and MP3 have took the middleman out of the distribution. Add in that good studio equipment is now about 1/10th the cost from 10 years ago and it's also taken a lot of the middlemen out of production. It's a whole different paradigm. So where does that leave the artists? The smart ones have set up a link, and a close link between their fans and themselves. e.g. BowieNet, Todd Rungren's site. People like Holly Palmer and Emm Gryner are putting us into their lives with their journals in a way that hasn't happened in a good 50 years, longer in more 'civilized' places. But the old paradigm still works for the majority of people. They play a song or two and don't _care_ about the artist. No I mean that _care_, I can recall a couple of list members driving the Sleanster to pick up her car that was towed while she was playing a gig. By and large we _care_ about these people who enrich the, for lack of a better term, spiritual side of us. Anyway, most 'fans' don't, they want a piece of their celebrity idol and then to go home and get back to their lives. So it comes back to this new technology can help an artist, certainly I've gotten e-mail from ppl who have found Sarah on Napster and then went to the site, and then bought the albums. It can also hurt them I'm sure there's even more who just DL a song or two or three and then nothing. We all just need to find a better way to get the music to the people and the money to the artist. When you think of how little an artist makes on a record deal, _maybe_ a dollar a CD (H.P.?), it makes you wonder, could they make more going it alone? Certainly some people like Courtney Love will say 'yes'. It's an interesting time in the music biz anyway. James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 12:29:54 -0400 From: What? Management Subject: Re: Live footage, religion, etc. Well hello there Meredith - How you been, girl?! My thumb is fully healed and happy again. Of course, I managed to break my toe on the weekend... It's hard to be this accident prone. This live taping thing has opened a can of worms and I'm digging the exchange of thoughts and ideas. I wanted to say that I completely understand the desire for "other" recordings. I would do many strange things for bootlegs of some of my faves that I won't be able to see live - Jeff Buckley, for example. Hell, anyone got a tape of James Stewart just talking?! :) >We never, ever >exchange money for copies - just fair trade. It's great that there's no money changing hands, but trading for equal value is still commerce. I'm not frowning on that, just making the point. >And we already own everything >that's available from the artists we tape. I don't doubt that's the case at all. Having the pleasure of getting to know some of you on Navy Soup, well, you're some of the most dedicated music fans I've ever met. It's inspiring. The idea of making a fortune based on your special collections would somehow go against your musicphile grain. There are *many* people out there, however, that would gladly take a free live recording and will never purchase something directly from the artist. ("Why spend $15 when I can have this good live recording with the same songs and more for free?") >>(You >>may also notice that the artists who are most vocal about allowing live >>tapings and the distribution of those bootlegs are all artists with alot of >>money... Always easy to be cool when you've got the bills covered!) > >Most of the artists we record (hell, most of the artists we go out to see) >are relatively obscure, playing to tiny rooms to double-digit audiences. >They are scraping along to cover the bills, and not always succeeding. What I meant by that are the financially bulging bands like Pearl Jam who make a public point of the fact that they don't care (actually like it) when people tape their shows, etc. Wasn't Metallica all up on bootlegs and the internet until 350,000+ copies of their new album were downloaded before it was even released? (Different than live taping, agreed, but it runs parallel with this issue.) >Just an alternate opinion. Love it! >If we ask an artist if it's ok to tape >and she says no, we don't. That's only common courtesy. Amen to that, sister. Best, Heather. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 12:30:01 -0400 From: What? Management Subject: Re: thoughts about bootlegging >if the artist has given >permission for the taping to occur, with the understanding that the end >product isn't to be used or replicated commercially, then I think there >really are no remaining issues with making that recording. The flipside of >it is that if the artist decides that s/he will *not* allow recordings, >then any recording made should be considered illegal. End of story. I completely agree. H. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 12:30:03 -0400 From: What? Management Subject: Re: Of recording and religion > My opinion is that there are some artists that just can't be captured >through a little microphone -- it's just too much of a personal experience >that one must be encompassed with. My guess with Sarah is that she wants her >performances to be more intimate than what a digital recording can provide. Yes!!! Well said, Chris... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 12:30:09 -0400 From: What? Management Subject: Re: Live footage, religion, etc. >When you think of how little an artist makes on a record deal, >_maybe_ a dollar a CD (H.P.?), Generally based on a % of the "Suggested Retail List Price" - between say, 10% to 14%, depending on the stature and sales of the artist. But there can be a number of "deductions" to be dealt with, and the artist must be recouped (recording costs, advances, etc.) before they see any of that. Songwriters will also make "mechanicals" from their songs (I think it's still $0.071 per song here in Canada), but some record companies try to get the artist to agree to a "three-quarter rate" (pay only 3/4 of that mechanical rate) on "controlled compositions" (songs written by the artist signed to their label), and they will limit the # of songs per record they'll pay mechanicals on. Sorry for all the posts! I'm just quite fascinated by what's happening in the business right now... It's been great getting to wrap my head around your thoughts... (You can imagine that most of the opinions I hear are from people in "the biz" and they're a bit different than yours.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 12:50:15 -0400 From: What? Management Subject: Re: Religion >When >someone writes lyrics that elude to spirituality as much as Sarah does, it >doesn't strike me that she would be adverse to her spiritual views as a >topic >of discussion. If she feels that way, I would certainly expect Heather to >tell us. Alright!!! I've become the Grand Poobah!! :) I wouldn't speak for Sarah about her religious views, it's just not my place (bootlegging, on the other hand, falls under the realm of my duties), but I agree that by making her songs that contain religious references available for public consumption would make this topic pretty wide open. Especially between friends. :) I think Sarah would be interested in the topic, not put off by it. H. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 13:18:35 -0400 From: rturingan@dico.com Subject: Heather has time on her hands (was Re: Live footage, religion, etc.) >Sorry for all the posts! >I'm just quite fascinated by what's happening in the business right now... >It's been great getting to wrap my head around your thoughts... (You can >imagine that most of the opinions I hear are from people in "the biz" and >they're a bit different than yours.) Rannie smiles at Heather... For a sec there I thought that you actually might be slacking from the job. A little too much time on your hands or something (just kidding) You know we all love you Heather and it is great to have your input here on a forum such as this. Oh now maybe you can answer a couple of questions I have..... When I was in Vancouver for two weeks at the end of April, I saw the new 30 hour famine compilation cd at the Virgin Megastore. I did note that Sarah Slean had a track on there (for the life of me, I can't remember which one) and noticed that Emm Gryner had a track on there. The strange thing is that I forget the actual title of the cd and I haven't been able to find it anywhere here in Toronto, nor could I find any info on it on the net. Maybe you can shed some light on this... I was gonna pick it up while I was in Vancouver, but by the time I had seen it, I had already spent a small fortune on cds and clothes during my visit. So I thought I would just get it in Toronto at my own convinence. Alas I can not find it here. Secondly, I was wondering what other artist you guys do management for.. I am sure you must be a wealth of information for this. Do you have any artist recommendations to share with this group. I am alway keen on checking out new and upcoming artists. Even older artists that I haven't been exposed to as of yet. I find that many of the mailing lists that I am on have offered a new world of music to me that I never would have discovered on my own. Thirdly.. when is Sarah playing in Toronto again.. ( oh ya harbourfront) but seriously. There doesn't seem to be many shows planned for her this summer. Is she taking time off? Hmm i think those are the only issues I have on the plate at the moment. I'm sure I could think up more but I should get back to work, or at least look like I am doing something important. Cheers Rannie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 13:20:24 -0400 From: alicia_lightfoot@zdnet.com (ATTN! Alicia's new address is alicia_lightfoot@zdnet.com) Subject: Re: Heather has time on her hands (was Re: Live footage, religion , etc.) - ------------ Previous Message from rturingan@dico.com on 05/24/2000 01:18:35 PM ---------- To: "What? Management" cc: navy-soup@smoe.org Subject: Heather has time on her hands (was Re: Live footage, religion, etc.) > >Sorry for all the posts! > >I'm just quite fascinated by what's happening in the business > right now... > >It's been great getting to wrap my head around your thoughts... (You can > >imagine that most of the opinions I hear are from people in "the biz" and > >they're a bit different than yours.) > > > Rannie smiles at Heather... > > For a sec there I thought that you actually might be slacking > from the job. A > little too much time on your hands or something (just kidding) > You know we all > love you Heather and it is great to have your input here on a > forum such as > this. > > Oh now maybe you can answer a couple of questions I have..... > > When I was in Vancouver for two weeks at the end of April, I saw > the new 30 hour > famine compilation cd at the Virgin Megastore. I did note that > Sarah Slean had a > track on there (for the life of me, I can't remember which one) > and noticed that > Emm Gryner had a track on there. The strange thing is that I > forget the actual > title of the cd and I haven't been able to find it anywhere here > in Toronto, nor > could I find any info on it on the net. Maybe you can shed some light on > this... I was gonna pick it up while I was in Vancouver, but by > the time I had > seen it, I had already spent a small fortune on cds and clothes > during my visit. > So I thought I would just get it in Toronto at my own convinence. > Alas I can not > find it here. > > Secondly, I was wondering what other artist you guys do > management for.. I am > sure you must be a wealth of information for this. Do you have any artist > recommendations to share with this group. I am alway keen on > checking out new > and upcoming artists. Even older artists that I haven't been > exposed to as of > yet. I find that many of the mailing lists that I am on have > offered a new > world of music to me that I never would have discovered on my own. > > Thirdly.. when is Sarah playing in Toronto again.. ( oh ya > harbourfront) but > seriously. There doesn't seem to be many shows planned for her > this summer. Is > she taking time off? > > Hmm i think those are the only issues I have on the plate at the > moment. I'm > sure I could think up more but I should get back to work, or at > least look like > I am doing something important. > > Cheers > Rannie > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 13:54:12 -0400 From: "Sophie" Subject: Re: Religion Hehehehe. Ok. *Now* we can discuss religion (if anyone wants to.) - ----- Original Message ----- From: What? Management To: Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 12:50 PM Subject: Re: Religion > >When > >someone writes lyrics that elude to spirituality as much as Sarah does, it > >doesn't strike me that she would be adverse to her spiritual views as a > >topic > >of discussion. If she feels that way, I would certainly expect Heather to > >tell us. > > Alright!!! I've become the Grand Poobah!! :) > > I wouldn't speak for Sarah about her religious views, it's just not my > place (bootlegging, on the other hand, falls under the realm of my duties), > but I agree that by making her songs that contain religious references > available for public consumption would make this topic pretty wide open. > Especially between friends. :) > > I think Sarah would be interested in the topic, not put off by it. > > H. > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 14:06:36 -0400 From: "James McGarry" Subject: Re: Live footage, religion, etc. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "What? Management" Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 12:30 PM > I said: > >When you think of how little an artist makes on a record deal, > >_maybe_ a dollar a CD (H.P.?), > > Generally based on a % of the "Suggested Retail List Price" - between say, > 10% to 14%, depending on the stature and sales of the artist. But there can > be a number of "deductions" to be dealt with, and the artist must be > recouped (recording costs, advances, etc.) before they see any of that. > > Songwriters will also make "mechanicals" from their songs (I think it's > still $0.071 per song here in Canada), but some record companies try to get > the artist to agree to a "three-quarter rate" (pay only 3/4 of that > mechanical rate) on "controlled compositions" (songs written by the artist > signed to their label), and they will limit the # of songs per record > they'll pay mechanicals on. So mabye a little better than I thought. Whoa. You might literally sell 100,000 albums and not see a penny or even still be in debt. I makes me rethink the value of the majors for anything but distribution and even then... Hmmm, let's run through a 10,000 selling album in Canada with a $5,000 advance. Let's say they got a good deal on a decent producer, and had their own studio...so got off with $20,000 in recording (I think this is quite modest) and maybe an advert budget of $5,000 for a total of $25,000 (loads of fudging I know). They're a new artist so get 10% SRLP, and 3/4 mech on 10 songs (even though there's 13 on the album) with controlled compositions so that's 0.071 x 10 x .75 = .5325/CD + 10% SRLP of say $14.99, so 1.499 + .5325 = 2.0315/CD * 10,000 = $20,315 So they've moved 10,000 units, nothing to sneeze at for a new artist and they are -$5,000 for 4-8 months work and might be another year or so before the album starts making money and they've paid back the advance. Assuming the accountants don't manage to write off every little cost onto the album. Hmmmm... am I too pessimistic in my calcs? > Sorry for all the posts! Heather, babe, I think the thanks should be the other way, tapping into your Biz!Brain is always tres cool! :-) > I'm just quite fascinated by what's happening in the business right now... > It's been great getting to wrap my head around your thoughts... (You can > imagine that most of the opinions I hear are from people in "the biz" and > they're a bit different than yours.) :-) And they'll have to learn this in the biz soon too. There is literally no way to protect against rapid copying and redistribution of works. Maybe some molecular encryption coming down the pipe, but eventually you have to get to a signal that hits human hears and anything that does that can be recorded. I've seen advance albums on Napster long before release dates and it will only get worse. The majors will have to find another way to make money, a new business paradigm or they'll go under eventually. They also have to figure that the net cuts their distrib costs, improves their demographics measurements, etc... it'll be a long time before the dust settles. :-) James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 14:10:24 -0400 From: "James McGarry" Subject: Re: Heather has time on her hands (was Re: Live footage, religion , etc.) - ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 1:44 PM > I think Chris meant to send this to the list as well... > ---------------------- Forwarded by Rannie Turingan/DICO on 05/24/2000 01:46 PM > --------------------------- > > And from recent recollection, it's been quite a while since she frequented > Kitchener/Waterloo like she did in 98, dammit. > > The Jane Bond might be too small -- well.. Living room concerts are small > too.. but I can guaranteedidly make a true fan or two. I think Jane Bond is pretty much the right size for Sarah in that area, she's a bit bigger draw in Guelph, I know only 20 minutes away. But that's due to two really good Hillside performances, the Stadust performance, the UC performance, the Carden St. Cafe... very well thought out... James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 14:20:08 -0400 From: What? Management Subject: Re: Heather has time on her hands (was Re: Live footage, religion, etc.) >Rannie smiles at Heather... I don't think I can handle the popularity! :) >For a sec there I thought that you actually might be slacking from the job. Me? Slacking? Every second I get... :) >it is great to have your input here on a forum such as this. Thanks to everyone for allowing me to be part of it. I've learned alot here. >When I was in Vancouver for two weeks at the end of April, I saw the new >30 hour >famine compilation cd at the Virgin Megastore. I believe it's called "Face The Music". I haven't actually seen a copy of it, but I do have an office copy coming from Sony. Maybe you could find it online at Sony-something-or-other? >Secondly, I was wondering what other artist you guys do management for.. I've got Sarah (5 years and counting! How she puts up with me I'll never know...), Tory Cassis (just started working with him in January - what a delight), and I'm helping out a wonderful multi-faceted artist named Spine (Todor Kobakov). He made an album in his bedroom a few years ago and Sarah sang on a couple of tracks, which is how I heard of him. He's putting a live show together, so hopefully you can all check him out! He's produced a track for Lenni Jabour and has done a remix for Damhnait Doyle. There are other artists that I could work with, I suppose, but being a company of 1 and having all these incredibly talented folks counting on me is enough pressure, thank you! (Tanisha - I sheepishly promise to get back to you about your stuff - I'm half petrified to love it - I'm just too busy to take anything else on!) >Do you have any artist >recommendations to share with this group. Ha! I get most of my recommendations from you guys! Sadly I just don't get to check out as much new music as I used to. I've tried to put shows together with most of the artists I love (this job has it's selfish perks!), so you're most likely familiar with the stuff I'm digging: Oh Susanna is working on a new album (I'm listening to demos right now - lovely), Sarah Harmer kicks some serious ass (in a nice way, of course), Danny Michel, love Feist, can't get that Starling single out of my head, Hawksley Workman ("I hate to break it to you baby but we're the last on earth" - sing it, man!), Veal has some great pop tunes, etc... etc... >Thirdly.. when is Sarah playing in Toronto again.. ( oh ya harbourfront) but >seriously. There doesn't seem to be many shows planned for her this summer. Is >she taking time off? Sarah's gearing up for the making of the "multinational debut", so she's been spending a bunch of time relaxing, writing, arranging, demoing, etc. Since before the release of "Universe" she has been a working machine, and she certainly deserves to take a little "Sarah Time". There will be some shows added here and there, but we're trying to keep things calm for awhile. Sorry - no plans for a NYC show, or a Kitchener/Waterloo show either. But you can help the process by getting in touch with venues in your area and telling them you want to see Sarah there! That way we're getting hassled by our agents because they can't stand turning shows down. >I should get back to work, or at least look like >I am doing something important. Me too! :) Cheers, Heather. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 14:10:58 -0400 From: "Roxanne D. Finch" Subject: Re: Live footage, religion, etc. >So mabye a little better than I thought. Whoa. You might literally sell >100,000 albums and not see a penny or even still be in debt. I makes me >rethink the value of the majors for anything but distribution and even >then... I'm a "Behind the Music" junkie. It's like a car accident when I come across it surfing channels...no matter who the group is I just can't look away. I've seen the Def Leppard one like six or seven times and I've never bought an album and normally turn the radio station when one of their songs are playing. *Anyway* the TLC "Behind the Music" shows you how they sold millions of records and still ended up however much in debt because of promotion costs, video, wardrobe, etc. Needless to say the whole concept of the "music industry" leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Luckily I normally listen to more independent artists and folkies and it may be my naviete showing but I think the companies that specialize in those types of music are probably a little more ethical than the biggies. But as always I could be wrong. Roxanne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 14:31:39 -0400 From: Adam Lynch Subject: Re: Live footage, religion, etc. And thus spoke Roxanne D. Finch: > > I'm a "Behind the Music" junkie. It's like a car accident when I come > across it surfing channels...no matter who the group is I just can't look > away. I've seen the Def Leppard one like six or seven times and I've never > bought an album and normally turn the radio station when one of their songs > are playing. > You too? I knew it was time for intervention when I actually felt like I cared how Rick "Superfreak" James was doing. ;-) - -- - --- AdamL. alynch@sprawl.net http://sprawl.net Any view of the universe that is not strange is false. -Neil Gaiman Perfection is what we achieve when we lower our standards. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 14:35:53 -0400 From: "James McGarry" Subject: Re: Live footage, religion, etc. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roxanne D. Finch" Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 2:10 PM > *Anyway* the TLC "Behind the Music" shows you how they sold millions of > records and still ended up however much in debt because of promotion costs, > video, wardrobe, etc. Needless to say the whole concept of the "music > industry" leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Luckily I normally listen to > more independent artists and folkies and it may be my naviete showing but I > think the companies that specialize in those types of music are probably a > little more ethical than the biggies. But as always I could be wrong. Depends, I think it was Ani who said something along the lines of getting a deal from an indie label that made her think if _these_ are the friendlies... ...having said that I live in Indie label luxury here, DROG, though it has a TO presence, still has Guelph roots, is very artist friendly. I have never heard a bad thing about them, but then again, they're musicians themselves... (and man, that Lew Melville plays a mean steel guitar.) For my money I'm more anxious to get the artist more of the pie than the labels... which goes back to some of the rules I laid down for CD buying and music a while back: Buy from the artist. If you have a choice between the store and the concert, it's usually cheaper a the gig (usually, damn you Sean Lennon!) and they artist gets more of the pie since they get the portion that the retail store normally gets too. (And if it's completely indie, they get even more...) Support indie music. You have to go to shows, you have to 'suffer' through some questionable performances, if you want a strong music scene. I had more, and SteveIto had some too... geez... I forget :-) James. James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 14:43:02 -0400 From: "James McGarry" Subject: Re: Heather has time on her hands (was Re: Live footage, religion, etc.) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "What? Management" Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 2:20 PM > >For a sec there I thought that you actually might be slacking from the job. > Me? Slacking? > Every second I get... :) Didn't you bring work to the cottage last year... ...you better slack off every chance you get ;-) I have a feeling it's gonna be a busy year... > >Secondly, I was wondering what other artist you guys do management for.. > I've got Sarah (5 years and counting! How she puts up with me I'll never > know...), Tory Cassis (just started working with him in January - what a > delight), and I'm helping out a wonderful multi-faceted artist named Spine > (Todor Kobakov). He made an album in his bedroom a few years ago and Sarah Mr. BlackberryVoice has a very nice album and Todor's is very cool. He needs to do more stuff :-) More! > sang on a couple of tracks, which is how I heard of him. He's putting a > live show together, so hopefully you can all check him out! He's produced a > track for Lenni Jabour and has done a remix for Damhnait Doyle. There are > other artists that I could work with, I suppose, but being a company of 1 You know,... if it was for you H.P. I'd quit here in a second ;-) Heh. > digging: Oh Susanna is working on a new album (I'm listening to demos right Suzie has a new video too, which y'all have to request so I can see it. It aired on CMT I think and Much at least once. We can't let Neko Case just show some cleavage (or other stuff) and hog all the press ;-) From what I hear the new stuff is good good good. > now - lovely), Sarah Harmer kicks some serious ass (in a nice way, of > course), Danny Michel, love Feist, can't get that Starling single out of my > head, Hawksley Workman ("I hate to break it to you baby but we're the last > on earth" - sing it, man!), Veal has some great pop tunes, etc... etc... Hawksley's album is fine, he's working with Tegan and Sara on some production as well... which will sound great if they don't tease him to death first. James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:56:45 -0700 From: Paul Schreiber Subject: RE: Heather has time on her hands (was Re: Live footage, religion , etc.) Rannie Turnigan wrote: >And from recent recollection, it's been quite a while since she frequented >Kitchener/Waterloo like she did in 98, dammit. > >The Jane Bond might be too small -- well.. Living room concerts are small >too.. but I can guaranteedidly make a true fan or two. Hmmm ... think Sarah could do a Fed Hall show? That's kinda big ... 500 people, maybe. She did the Circus Room, once. Paul shad 96c / 3B CS / mac activist / eda / fumbler fan of / jewel / sophie b. / sarah slean / steve poltz / emm gryner / / x-files / buffy / dawson's creek / habs / bills / 49ers / t h i n k d i f f e r e n t. "i'm so lucky i've got you to kick my ass" -- Tricia Concepcion, "Anything is Everything" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 15:00:59 -0400 From: "W. L. Estes" Subject: Re: Live footage, religion, etc. > rethink the value of the majors for anything but distribution and even > then... Well, as a person living in North CArolina who has a steadily growing Canadian music collection, I'd say that the 'net could be used more fittingly for distribution. Sure, if I wanted bubble-gum pop from artists barely deserving of that appellation, then the big record labels would be great. As it is, I don't even bother going to local record stores any more for ~95-99% of my music buying. They *won't* have what I want. But poking about here and there with a web browser and a mail client will turn up much better results. Thanks (you know who you are), - --Will ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 14:20:24 PDT From: "Justine L" Subject: NEC/NSC: University of Western Ontario Hey everyone.. Sorry for the double post, and I wonder how come most of my posts are not artist related.. anyway... I just got my offer of admissions into Western and am really considering going, it was my second choice. My first choice was Ryerson, but because of very heavy competition for my area of study I didn't make it. I am very disappointed, I wanted to live in Toronto and attend all the concerts. Anyway... I was just wondering if anyone on the list goes to Western, particularly in Media, Information and Technoculture (my program) and I'm interested in what you guys have to say about London and the school.. feel free to email me privately.. thanks!! (lusty_justy@hotmail.com) Justine ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 17:59:02 -0400 From: What? Management Subject: Re: Live footage, religion, etc. >Needless to say the whole concept of the "music >industry" leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Not all of us are bad... honest! >Luckily I normally listen to >more independent artists and folkies and it may be my naviete showing but I >think the companies that specialize in those types of music are probably a >little more ethical than the biggies. But as always I could be wrong. The expense of doing TLC-type music is far bigger than most "folkie" projects. Look at the videos! That "waterfall" video alone must have approached a million dollars. That's *outrageous*, but it's also expected. You can't put out an album in that vein of music and expect to sell any records if you don't show off some serious dough. And the producers they use are big names and cost a fortune to use (all recoupable by the artist), and then they also get "points" on the album, all subtracted from what the artist should get (ie. TLC may 12%, but the producer takes 4%, leaving TLC with 8%), which means they'll take even longer to recoup. Wasn't it Toni Braxton that went bankrupt? Sheesh. H. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 17:58:58 -0400 From: What? Management Subject: Re: Heather has time on her hands (was Re: Live footage, religion, etc.) >> >For a sec there I thought that you actually might be slacking from the >job. >> Me? Slacking? >> Every second I get... :) > >Didn't you bring work to the cottage last year... Well... Okay... So I did... But I like my job, so it all works out in the wash. >...you better slack off >every chance you get ;-) I have a feeling it's gonna be a busy year... I have a feeling that your feeling is correct. Bring it on!!! :) >Mr. BlackberryVoice has a very nice album and Todor's is very cool. He needs >to do more stuff :-) More! He's working on stuff this very moment. Guitar tracks. Hopefully there will be some new stuff for us all soon. We're also working on a website so those of you who have no idea who we're talking about can check it out. >You know,... if it was for you H.P. I'd quit here in a second ;-) Heh. And you know James, if I had two cents to rub together I'd hire you in a second! You don't happen to be independently wealthy, do you? :) >Suzie has a new video too, which y'all have to request so I can see it. It >aired on CMT I think and Much at least once. Excellent plug! All the more reason to hire you...! >Hawksley's album is fine, he's working with Tegan and Sara on some >production as well... which will sound great if they don't tease him to >death first. I've heard the Hawksley-produced T&S record and it's awesome. I just didn't want to say it because they just fired my management friends. Peace, Heather. ------------------------------ End of navy-soup-digest V3 #90 ******************************