From: owner-navy-soup-digest@smoe.org (navy-soup-digest) To: navy-soup-digest@smoe.org Subject: navy-soup-digest V2 #57 Reply-To: navy-soup@smoe.org Sender: owner-navy-soup-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-navy-soup-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk navy-soup-digest Friday, May 7 1999 Volume 02 : Number 057 In This Digest: ----------------- Sarah's Rochester Interview (Again) [Adam Lynch ] Re: Sarah's Interview in Rochester is up [lvermeer@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (L] John the 23rd [Juhulia@aol.com] Re: John the 23rd [James McGarry ] Re: John the 23rd [Paul Schreiber ] Re: John the 23rd [James McGarry ] Lyrics to "John the 23rd" [what@ican.net (What? Management)] Shell/Ogoni stuff [Paul Schreiber ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 09:24:35 -0400 From: Adam Lynch Subject: Sarah's Rochester Interview (Again) Due to popular request, I've converted the interview to streaming RealAudio G2 format. Now there's no reason not to go get it. ;-) Its optimized for 28.8 and above modems, and will also sound great with dual-channel ISDN (or a cable modem). Take a looksie at http://sprawl.net/~alynch . Sorry to beat this into the ground... - -- - --- AdamL. alynch@sprawl.net http://sprawl.net Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. -Robert Heinlein, 'Logic of Empire' Given the choice, control, development, services and support Red Hat Linux offers users, the question isn't whether Linux is the best choice for the enterprise - it's how can legacy proprietary operating systems survive in an open source world? -Robert Young, CEO, Red Hat ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 14:34:58 -0600 From: lvermeer@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (Leslie Vermeer) Subject: Re: Sarah's Interview in Rochester is up >Hello all- > > I just finished encoding Sarah's interview into MP3 format. Its up at >http://sprawl.net/~alynch . Thanks for putting this up! Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 16:50:59 EDT From: Juhulia@aol.com Subject: John the 23rd I fell totally in love with this song when I discovered it (the day after I bought the CD when I finally got around to reading the fine print.... hah.). Anyway, I think I have an idea of what it's about, but I can't hear some of the words, so I don't know if I'm right or not. Does anyone either have the lyrics, or know what it's about? I would really appreciate it if someone could tell me. Thanks!! :) Julia ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 17:41:01 -0400 (EDT) From: James McGarry Subject: Re: John the 23rd On Thu, 6 May 1999 Juhulia@aol.com wrote: > I fell totally in love with this song when I discovered it (the day after I > bought the CD when I finally got around to reading the fine print.... hah.). > Anyway, I think I have an idea of what it's about, but I can't hear some of > the words, so I don't know if I'm right or not. Does anyone either have the > lyrics, or know what it's about? I would really appreciate it if someone > could tell me. Thanks!! :) Its about Pope John the 23rd. Particularly about how it was he who had the priest turn around, facing the congregation during the mass. I'm guessing this is part of what came out of Vatican II, though I haven't read those documents in quite a while. I think I have a copy a home. You can see who we're talking about here: http://www.endar.it/UK/esempio5.html There is a selection from Pope John the 23rd's selected letters (mainly from Vatican II) here: http://www.ugkc.lviv.ua/CDHN/papal.html There's a biography and some more selected writings here: http://www.knight.org/advent/Popes/ppjo23.htm James. P.S. If anyone is particularly interested I'll try to dig up the reference, but its mighty dry reading! ========================================================================== James McGarry | jmcgarry@UoGuelph.CA - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- An artist should be fit for the best society and keep out of it. - - John Ruskin ========================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 14:40:15 -0700 From: Paul Schreiber Subject: Re: John the 23rd Julia wrote: >Anyway, I think I have an idea of what it's about, but I can't hear some of >the words, so I don't know if I'm right or not. Does anyone either have the >lyrics, or know what it's about? Well, it's about a pope. :-) It's (of course) not about the song, but about the pope himself. I found this: http://listserv.american.edu/catholic/church/papal/john.xxiii/john.xxiii.in fo.html - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- Pope John XXIII (born 25 November, 1881; died 3 June, 1963) was pope from 1958 to 1963. His name was Angelo Giuseppe Roncalli. He was born in Sotto il Monte (near Bergamo), he studied in Bergamo and in Rome, and he was ordained a priest in Rome in 1904. He began his long career in the Vatican diplomatic corps when he was appointed (1925), with the title of archbishop, to be the apostolic visitor to Bulgaria. Later he was named apostolic delegate to Turkey and Greece in 1935. Between 1944 and 1953 he served as nuncio to France. He was also Vatican observer at UNESCO (1946-53). In 1953 he was made a cardinal and named patriarch of Venice. When he was elected pope, Roncalli seemed to be a compromise candidate because of his advanced years. Although he served as pope for five years he accomplished a lot, including the calling of the Second Vatican Council. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- The lyrics, are, of course available from: http://www.sarahslean.com/sslyr1a.htm - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- John XXIII Inside the heart Of freezing boys Searching for the answer In a shiny dime Who beg for sleep And peace of mind Why must the aging page Decide? Me and John 23rd have Tasted these sour words and I Just can't shake this belief that it's not a Test of devotion or something you read. (Background Vocals in Chorus) My weary heart Is looking, restless Not for a pardon But just one promise >From the dawn of time They taught her why Not to ask those questions And to never cry A plate of stars Could never take the place Of the boy who swore to catch me As I run through the rye I know it's been quite a long time since I Sang a hymn without guilt in my eyes But I believe he truly wouldn't care 'cuz if you Really tried he'd save a place for you there. All the fate that one can deserve it's Enough to wonder why you punish your girls Sure he's facing you now and not the wall but wasn't that Better than facing nothing at all. Copyright 1998 Sarah Slean - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- Paul shad 96c / 3A CS / mac activist / eda / fumbler fan of / jewel / sophie b. / sarah slean / steve poltz / emm gryner / / x-files / buffy / dawson's creek / habs / bills / 49ers / t h i n k d i f f e r e n t. "Oh I'll be 21 and old without a clue" -- Emm Gryner, "July" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 18:06:32 -0400 (EDT) From: James McGarry Subject: Re: John the 23rd On Thu, 6 May 1999, James McGarry wrote: > Its about Pope John the 23rd. Particularly about how it was he who had the I'm going to be gauche and reply to my own message. I've never really talked with Sarah about this, since I guess I like to form my own opinions about the songs... ...so I was never very clear on whether John the 23rd (the song) had a postive or negative spin about the Pope. He saw much of Europe at war, and fairly close at hand too. His duties as Apostolic Delegate placed him in Turkey during the war and just after in France as Papal Nuncio there. No matter how the song paints him (and I'm using the word paints intentionally, for those unfamiliar with my particular view of Sarah's body of work) there are awfully (and I mean that in the correct usage!) inspiring passages in his June 29, 1959 Encyclical: Ad Petri Cathedram (On Truth, Unity and Peace); in part an anti-war tract. (you can read the whole thing here: http://listserv.american.edu/catholic/church/papal/john.xxiii/j23petri.txt) Just to encourage my lateral thinging today, he includes a quote from Cicero (but not the one I'm using). James. ========================================================================== James McGarry | jmcgarry@UoGuelph.CA - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "If the truth were self-evident, eloquence would be unnecessary." - Cicero ========================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 18:26:51 -0400 From: what@ican.net (What? Management) Subject: Lyrics to "John the 23rd" Hi all... For you because I love the intellect on this list! Heather. John the 23rd Inside the heart of freezing boys Searching for the answer in a shiny dime Who beg for sleep and peace of mind Why must the aging page decide Me and John the 23rd have tasted these sour words and I Just can't shake this belief that it's not a Test of devotion or something you read From the dawn of time they taught her why Not to ask those questions and to never cry A plate of stars could never take the place Of the boy who swore to catch me when I run through the rye I know it's been quite a long time since I Sang a hymn without guilt in my eyes But I believe He truly wouldn't care 'cause if you Really tried He'd save a place for you there ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 17:42:32 -0700 From: Paul Schreiber Subject: Shell/Ogoni stuff If you've heard Sarah talking about her song "Ogoni Star," you may find this interesting. Paul ========================================================================= http://imprint.uwaterloo.ca/issues/050799/2Forum/Letters_to_the_Editor/lett ers02.shtml What have I done?! To the Editor, Everyday, I do something that's bad for the environment. I drive my car. I throw away plastic spoons. I use four squares of toilet paper instead of two. And the list goes on. Of all the things that I've done though, nothing quite measures up to my latest mistake. At about this time last year, I applied for the Shell Recruitment scholarship that is available to engineering students at UW. The problem was this-I got it. All $2,000 of it. I accepted it without a second thought- knowing in the back of my mind that Shell had been accused of gross environmental damage in Nigeria. I also knew about the horrible reputation that the company had developed as a result of staying silent when human rights activist Ken Saro-Wiwa was executed. The more I thought about the issue, the more it bothered me. Here I was, a self-purported "envirionmentalist" accepting money from a corporation that has indiscriminately polluted in the waterways of poorer countries, and left formerly fertile agricultural areas entirely uninhabitable. My conscience was shouting 'hypocrite,' but my skimpy student budget was fighting back hard. That same week, Imprint reported that the Senate of the University of Victoria had voted 25-17 to turn down an offer to establish a $2,000 Shell scholarship. Senators were concerned with human rights and environmental abuses practised by Shell Oil, specifically in Nigeria. At this point, I decided to revisit my decision. It occurred to me for the first time that I could choose to reject the scholarship. Not being one to jump to conclusions (especially when money is at stake), I wanted to be able to justify whatever decision I would eventually make. I called up a Shell representative to ask for more information. I probed websites on the issue. I spoke to Amnesty International. I read the Shell information package. I provoked discussions with friends to get at the issue from all angles. I watched a BBC / Greenpeace documentary on the issue. Through this process, Shell acknowledged that it had irreparably damaged the Nigerian environment. The company has stated that it has restructured its processes to reduce environmental damage and that it has also made attempts to rectify the mistakes of the past. However, Owens Wiwa, a spokesperson for the Movement for the Survival of the Ogoni People (MOSOP-Canada) and a relative of Ken Saro-Wiwa, continues to express his concern at Shell's continuing corporate negligence. Shell insists that its new corporate vision emphasizing environmental and social responsibility is genuine. The Ogoni people think that it's a slick PR job. Short of going to Nigeria and verifying both sides of the story, I didn't know what else to do. I realized that a rejection of the money could potentially have negative implications for other corporations wanting to set up scholarships at UW. I also knew that I wouldn't be able to accept the money in good conscience after learning all that I had about the issue. I gave the money back. So now, I am a broke fourth year student, scraping my way through school. All I am asking you to do now is to think about how this university handles scholarships, and for that matter, any other corporate or community funds. At UW, the Senate is the body that makes these decisions. Are Senators aware of where this money originates? Does this university accept offers indiscriminately? By accepting these funds, is this institution indirectly condoning their practices? If we students don't speak up, who will? I gave up $2,000 to make a point. I hope you decide to do something about it. - --by Name withheld by request ========================================================================= shad 96c / 3A CS / mac activist / eda / fumbler fan of / jewel / sophie b. / sarah slean / steve poltz / emm gryner / / x-files / buffy / dawson's creek / habs / bills / 49ers / t h i n k d i f f e r e n t. "Speak your mind 'cause this life's going fast" -- Emm Gryner, "Julia" ------------------------------ End of navy-soup-digest V2 #57 ******************************