From: owner-music-issues-digest@smoe.org (music-issues-digest) To: music-issues-digest@smoe.org Subject: music-issues-digest V1 #7 Reply-To: music-issues@smoe.org Sender: owner-music-issues-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-music-issues-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk music-issues-digest Wednesday, September 9 1998 Volume 01 : Number 007 Today's Subjects: ----------------- AAA? [Paul Schreiber ] Re: AAA? ["Adam D." ] Re: AAA? [jkurylo@direct.ca (jason kurylo)] Re: AAA? [00jnweiser@bsuvc.bsu.edu] Re: AAA? ["Adam D." ] Re: AAA? [XfileGrrl@aol.com] Re: AAA? ["Adam D." ] Re: AAA? [Joseph Zitt ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:16:24 -0400 From: Paul Schreiber Subject: AAA? Someone wanna tell me what AAA is? I've heard of Adult Contemporary (AC). Heck, if you're up to writing a radio station primer that'd be great. :) Paul shad 96c / 3A CS / mac activist / eda / fumbler fan of / montreal canadiens / jewel / sophie b. hawkins / sarah slean / / x-files / buffy / dawson's creek / bills / 49ers / t h i n k d i f f e r e n t. "Dreams last so long / even after you're gone." - --Jewel Kilcher and Steve Poltz, "You Were Meant For Me" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 00:46:30 -0700 From: "Adam D." Subject: Re: AAA? Paul Schreiber wrote: >Someone wanna tell me what AAA is? I've heard of Adult Contemporary (AC). > >Heck, if you're up to writing a radio station primer that'd be great. :) Yow. Too many formats to cover. Keeping in mind that these are 100% **only** American radio formats (with the possible exception of Modern Rock,) here we go: AAA stands for (I think) Adult Alternative. Period. Nothing for the third A. I could be wrong but it's all Billboard Monitor ever refers to it as. Stuff you'll hear on this format: Paula Cole, Matchbox 20, Live, Sarah McLachlan, Tori Amos, Elliot Smith, etc. Stuff you won't hear and why: Mariah Carey (she's considered AC or possibly Urban) Pearl Jam or Smashing Pumpkins (they are considered Modern Rock or just Rock.) Modern Rock, kinda described as above. Cutting edge hard rock. Also includes (unfortunately, since there is not yet a radio format for it) the likes of the Chemical Brothers or Underworld when they're in season but usually caters to the likes of the Foo Fighters crowd. Hard, aggressive but not Led Zeppelin. In Canada, some CAR (Contemporary Album-Oriented Radio - our version of AOR - - Album-Oriented Rock in the US) stations are beginning to also count as a "Modern Rock" station, since it's the only one that covers this genre. CAR us predominantly Led Zeppelin, Metallica, Big Sugar, Tea Party, etc. AC - Adult Contemporary. Whitney Houston, Kenny G., Michael Bolton, Mariah Carey. light light light. Nowadays leaning ever more towards R&B tinged artists. But also a safe haven for Barbara Streisand, et al. Urban - Just this side of rap-style black music. Introduced as a euphemism for "black" since that was considered a "racially shaky" term. Blackstreet, Bell Biv DeVoe, Boyz II Men, Puff Daddy, LL Cool J, KRS One, also Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey, Aaliyah, etc. Occasionally Urban and Rap cross the line. Then you have Top Forty (In Canada called CHR for Contemporary Hit Radio) which in Canada tends to be this mish mash of stuff. In Vancouver we have a station called Z95 that will play Boyz II Men, Aqua, Smashing Pumpkins, Our Lady Peace and Madonna all in a row. No station like that exists in the US thanx to "narrowcasting." US label types come to Canada and are completely confused by our radio stations. In the US if you hear a hard rock song (let's say Smashing Pumpkins) - you are listening to a hard rock station and will never hear the likes of Aqua on there. In the US Top 40 is Top 40. Ta da. That format only occasionally crosses over into AAA or Urban but rarely ever does it foray into Modern Rock. Confused yet? There's my (lengthy) blab. You can wake up now. :) ad - -- /'''              adam@nettwerk.com                   Adam Drake c ..                                        Senior Web Developer     \           http://www.nettweb.com      Nettwerk Productions    - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 03:05:39 -0700 From: jkurylo@direct.ca (jason kurylo) Subject: Re: AAA? Good day, all... Patrick has recommended this list as a good place to be. He's never steered me wrong before, so I thought I'd take a shot. My name is Jason Kurylo, and I'm a music columnist for a newspaper in North Vancouver, BC, Canada. Normally I'm not quick to jump into discussion in a mailing list, I like to sit back and watch for a while, but I'm rather piqued by this thread: Adam Drake was nice enough to give the lowdown on radio formats. in there he included: >Then you have Top Forty (In Canada called CHR for Contemporary Hit Radio) >which in Canada tends to be this mish mash of stuff. In Vancouver we have a >station called Z95 that will play Boyz II Men, Aqua, Smashing Pumpkins, Our >Lady Peace and Madonna all in a row. No station like that exists in the US >thanx to "narrowcasting." US label types come to Canada and are completely >confused by our radio stations. In the US if you hear a hard rock song >(let's say Smashing Pumpkins) - you are listening to a hard rock station >and will never hear the likes of Aqua on there. Please note, that this does by no means mean that Vancouver radio is *good*. In fact, Vancouver radio quite frankly bites the big one. We have CFOX, which is a testosterone haven, CFMI, a barely conscious oldies station, and the aforementioned Z95, which although they *will* throw in the occasional decent track, usually plays the same four top hit songs over and over. And just like anywhere else, the top four songs usually consist of four times crap. All the rest of Vancouver radio is throwaway easy listening or AM talk radio. (I'm not including the CBC or coop radio here, as I'm assuming this discussion is sticking to the format driven stations) I've been much more impressed with radio in towns like San Francisco (Alice, for example) and Boston (or, heck, even Bellingham, WA) than here. I have a question for Adam, actually, if you should know: Why is it that even *with* CRTC regulations governing Canadian content on radio, I cannot for the life of me find a radio station willing to play, say, Spirit of the West, The Odds or Blue Rodeo (to name three). Even the mighty Sarah McLachlan has only received airplay with her new, commercial sound. With powerhouse Canuck sellers like Neil Young and Bryan Adams not available under CRTC regs (they have a high percentage of American crew and techs, and also record a lot of their stuff out of country), you'd think Canadian radio would be jumping all over these bands and pushing them big time. (When was the last time Mystery Machine got radio play outside of an in studio interview, for example?) Thanks in advance... Cheers, Jason (voluntarily narrowtypecast at an early age) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 10:47:45 -0500 (EST) From: 00jnweiser@bsuvc.bsu.edu Subject: Re: AAA? Jason writes: > Good day, all... Patrick has recommended this list as >a good place to be. He's never steered me wrong before, so I thought I'd >take a shot. My name is Jason Kurylo, and I'm a music columnist for a Yay. Welcome Jason. :) Good to have ya here.:) >I've been much more impressed with radio in towns like San Francisco (Alice, >for example) and Boston (or, heck, even Bellingham, WA) than here. I was impressed with Alice while visiting SF. A Boston radio station (not sure which one) even asked for one of *my* CDs to play it--and they haven't even heard it yet. This could be good and bad, but I thought that was kind of cool of them to help artists like me (artists *better* than me!) get a little airtime and they're at least willing to play indie artists, etc. :) >The Odds or Blue Rodeo (to name three). Even the mighty Sarah McLachlan >has only received airplay with her new, commercial sound. With powerhouse >Canuck sellers like Neil Young and Bryan Adams not available under CRTC regs >(they have a high percentage of American crew and techs, and also record >a lot of their stuff out of country), you'd think Canadian radio would be >jumping Okay, I have a question for the Canadians (or Americans too, i guess). Why is it that an artist like, say, Amanda Marshall, who I believe is the definition of a corporate puppet (no offense to any AM fans among us!) has literally tons of airplay for her debut CD and at *every* single restaurant Adam and I ate at in Vancouver we heard one of her songs--this is someone who wrote 1 or 2 songs on that CD (oh, but, she's changing now--she co-wrote the new album with *gasp* Bryan Adams!! *falls over*) and played no instruments, compared to an artists like say, Sarah, who writes and plays and even does the album *artwork* and it takes her several years to get airplay beyond Canada (well, limited airplay, I guess elsewhere). So, my immediate conclusion about stuff like this (cause I'm cynical by nature ;) is that it's about one thing: $$$$$. Yes? I could think of many other bands/artists besides these two to use as an example, but they were the first two that came to mind. You could stick Natalie Imbruglia in the same spot as Amanda Marshall, cause she literally came from nowhere (she was an actress in Australia/ UK) and her song "Torn" rapidly climbed the charts and she is very overplayed here in the states. So, what's up with that? Is it the great work of the A&R people or her label, or about $? (Not that Natalie doesn't have a great voice, but. . .) jessica n. weiser - http://adam.nettfriends.com/Jess "they'll be sorry when the star buries the girl, so help me vanish, help me get myself outta here" - e. gryner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:29:34 -0700 From: "Adam D." Subject: Re: AAA? Hey there, >Please note, that this does by no means mean that Vancouver radio is *good*. >In fact, Vancouver radio quite frankly bites the big one. We had already mentioned this I think. ;) >I have a question for Adam, actually, if you should know: Why is it that >even *with* CRTC regulations governing Canadian content on radio, I cannot >for the life of me find a radio station willing to play, say, Spirit of the >West, >The Odds or Blue Rodeo (to name three). Simply because they will never compete (anymore) with the likes of Our Lady Peace, The Watchmen, The Tea Party or Amanda Marshall. Or Bryan Adams. Etc. Canadian radio is based on hit potential. And aparently mundanity (did I say that out loud?) Keeping in mind that the CRTC is staffed completely by 65 year olds. :/ > Even the mighty Sarah McLachlan >has only received airplay with her new, commercial sound. Actually there you are wrong. She has repeatedly with every album garnered major airplay. The first album got played to death in canada. Solace had not one but three singles each of which lasted a number of weeks on hit radio (CHR) I was working record retail at the time and I can assure you: huge airplay for her is not a new thing. It is much larger now but that is (of course) due to expanded US airplay which absolutely did not exist before Fumbling Towards Ecstasy came out. > With powerhouse >Canuck sellers like Neil Young and Bryan Adams not available under CRTC regs >(they have a high percentage of American crew and techs, and also record >a lot of their stuff out of country), Incorrect; Neil Youngs albums are *still* always at least half CanCon, meaning he *always* qualifies for SOCAN royalties as a CanCon artist 9as opposed to a US artist.) It's a moot point. And if you remember, three years ago, Bryan Adams went to court over the whole songwriters point within CanCon and actually altered it so that even if you only partially wrote a song (as he did with the last two albums) then it qualifies. As a result he was granted CanCon status. >you'd think Canadian radio would be >jumping >all over these bands and pushing them big time. (When was the last time >Mystery Machine got radio play outside of an in studio interview, for >example?) Radio simply doesn't jump on a band like Mystery Machine, unfortunately. They just don't. Now: on the other hand, if a US station started playing them and it suddenly started to take off, then you'd all of a sudden see all these Canadian stations jumping on it. That's really the only way that works up here. Doesn't mean that the CRTC has *anything* to do with what radio plays here. THey only do as far as *what quantity* of Canadian music you can play. If you think about it, the sheer numbers of artists don't allow for a band like Spirit Of The West to get a lot of airplay these days. (and personally, I don't really think they've had a hit-worthy album since "Save This House" but maybe that's just me.) Having said that, Canadian AC radio plays the crap out of their stuff. But since people of your (and my) age don't tend to listen too much to QMFM (Soft hits, three in a row, all day long) then we won't probably hear them too much. The problem gets dumber when you factor in things like MuchMusic (or MTV, same rules apply.) You have a song, let's say. And you want radio to be interested in it. So you zing them copies and ask for feedback. They ask you "Is Much (MTV) playing it?" "Heck no. We don't even have a video yet. Those are expensive things to make." "Well if Much takes an interest in it we might consider it." So you go ahead and spend around $40,000 on a modest video and zing it out to Much/MTV/etc. THey call you back. "Cool video, we really, really like it. But is radio doing anything with this?" "Uhhh... no. They wanted to know if you had an interest." "Well, tellya what. You get something happening at radio with this and I guarantee you we'll look into airing it." This is literally, no joke, the way it works. It's ludicrous. And it explains why you see and hear the same stuff all the time on radio or on TV. It's the way the market wants it to be. Here endeth (longest ever) blab. Someone else's turn now. ad - -- /''' adam@nettwerk.com Adam Drake c .. Senior Web Developer \ http://www.nettweb.com Nettwerk Productions - "If you take me to a concert, it'd better be great enough to make me forget that I want a cigarette, and I haven't seen anybody lately who can do that." -- Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:20:26 EDT From: XfileGrrl@aol.com Subject: Re: AAA? adam drake wrote: > >Then you have Top Forty (In Canada called CHR for Contemporary Hit Radio) > >which in Canada tends to be this mish mash of stuff. In Vancouver we have a > >station called Z95 that will play Boyz II Men, Aqua, Smashing Pumpkins, Our > >Lady Peace and Madonna all in a row. No station like that exists in the US > >thanx to "narrowcasting." US label types come to Canada and are completely > >confused by our radio stations. In the US if you hear a hard rock song > >(let's say Smashing Pumpkins) - you are listening to a hard rock station > >and will never hear the likes of Aqua on there. Actually, I'm gonna have to disagree with that. In Pittsburgh, there is aa very very popular staation called B94, thhat would play Boyz II Men, Aqua, Smashing Pumpkins, Our Lady Peace, and Madonna. I have heard that 1979 song by the Smashing Pumpkins, followed by Barbie Girl by Aqua, followed by Frozen by Madonnaa, followed by BAM by Sarah, then maybe throw in some Hanson or Spice Girls. Yes, those stations do exist. I'm pretty sure its one of those Top 40 stations, they claim to play "today's hit music". I haven't really listened in abouit...a year or so, I listen to the station where "the music matters", an NPR station, that wiill play Sarah, Grateful Dead, Keb'Mo, Heather Nova, then some hard rock song. They play *everything*. emily :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:51:04 -0800 From: "Adam D." Subject: Re: AAA? Re: my diatribe about mishmash "pop" formatting: >Actually, I'm gonna have to disagree with that. In Pittsburgh, there is aa >very very popular staation called B94, thhat would play Boyz II Men, Aqua, >Smashing Pumpkins, Our Lady Peace, and Madonna. I have heard that 1979 song by >the Smashing Pumpkins, followed by Barbie Girl by Aqua, followed by Frozen by >Madonnaa, followed by BAM by Sarah, then >maybe throw in some Hanson or Spice Girls. Yes, those stations do exist. Okay but my point being that in *most* cities where there is a wide selection of stations (L.A., NYC, Dalls, etc.) they will be a rarity. IN general radio stations like that are less likely to show up in the US rather than in Canada. This is merely from my experience. No right or wrong, it's just an example is all. ad - -- /''' adam@nettwerk.com Adam Drake c .. Senior Web Developer \ http://www.nettweb.com Nettwerk Productions - "If you take me to a concert, it'd better be great enough to make me forget that I want a cigarette, and I haven't seen anybody lately who can do that." -- Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 22:17:14 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: AAA? XfileGrrl@aol.com wrote: > Yes, those stations do exist. I'm > pretty sure its one of those Top 40 stations, they claim to play "today's hit > music". I haven't really listened in abouit...a year or so, I listen to the > station where "the music matters", an NPR station, that wiill play Sarah, > Grateful Dead, Keb'Mo, Heather Nova, then some hard rock song. They play > *everything*. Hmm... All straight ahead, common time, vocalist-guitar-bass-keyboards-drums (or some subset thereof) song forms.... A line-up like that fits well into a sort of Adult Contempory niche, a sound that, when I'm in a bad mood or tired of the station I tend to think of as "Music for Grownups" or "All Sting, All the Time". KERA in Dallas played that to death before they went to a mostly talk format, and KGSR did it, with a fairly bland consistency to it, in Austin. (Any way you look at it, the radio scene here in DC is pathetic.) When I hear a station with that constricted a selection, I'm soon flipping around looking for a wider variety. It's a rather rigidly constrained sense of what "*everything*" might be... - -- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| ------------------------------ End of music-issues-digest V1 #7 ********************************