From: owner-music-issues-digest@smoe.org (music-issues-digest) To: music-issues-digest@smoe.org Subject: music-issues-digest V1 #5 Reply-To: music-issues@smoe.org Sender: owner-music-issues-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-music-issues-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk music-issues-digest Monday, September 7 1998 Volume 01 : Number 005 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Radio Stations and AAA: Why? [XfileGrrl@aol.com] Re: Radio Stations and AAA: Why? ["Adam D." ] Re: Radio Stations and AAA: Why? [patrickc@primenet.com (patrick &B-{>)] Re: Radio Stations and AAA: Why? [00jnweiser@bsuvc.bsu.edu] Re: Radio Stations and AAA: Why? [Joseph Zitt ] Re: Radio Stations and AAA: Why? ["Adam D." ] Re: Radio Stations and AAA: Why? [patrickc@primenet.com (patrick &B-{>)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 00:56:16 EDT From: XfileGrrl@aol.com Subject: Re: Radio Stations and AAA: Why? hey there. i'm emily, and i'm 15, well almost. ok so anyway, there is this really good radio station here in pittsburgh, called WYEP, 91.3, that plays *everything*. I mean everything, sttuff from Sarah to NIN, to Ani to Emmylou Harris to Keb'Mo. *Everything* so anyway, its a public radio station (NPR) and its publically funded. I actually might be getting a volunteering position there, i am *so* excited...Especially since almost everyone that works there is actually volunteering i think so I could move up the corporate ladder, and maybe someday have my own show or something. :) yay. so was that music isssues oriented or what? Ok so to answer some of jess's questions. I *really* hope that people dont' do anything to change these types of radio stations. I think i would go crazy if i just could listen to the local "play what's popular" stations. the music isn't real, the people aren't real. >-is this >what's popular because it's all that's available or is >this really what the public wants to hear? i have been wondering the same thing actually. about a lot of things that the public likes. Do they like it because they actually *like* it, or do they like it because it's being shoved in their faces by everyone? And is there actually popular music that people *like*, or does everyone just pretend to like it because everyone else is liking it? Emily :) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 23:41:01 -0700 From: "Adam D." Subject: Re: Radio Stations and AAA: Why? I know.... here he is again.... >I guess I'm wondering where/when these formats (like AAA) >were established and what their specific purpose is. Well, now, in responding to this I have to say that since I'm in Canada, I am actually envious of the fact that you have formats so tightly split up in the US. Because in Canada, everything is so regulated that it wasn't until there was massive public pressure to do so that the CRTC decided to bend a little (in 1997, mind you) and allow for a Modern Rock format, but only as a subset of AOR radio (Album-Oriented Rock, a 70's moniker for anything along the lines of Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, etc.) AAA resulted from artists like (whaddya know?) Sarah McLachlan, Paula Cole, Weezer and possibly the likes of Live. Why? These were artists that were considered too hard for regular pop radio. Yet they were also considered too lightweight for the modern rock or even straight rock stations. The format (to my knowledge anyway) was introduced sometime around 1993-95. I don't know exactly. I know the Billboard AAA tracking only started in 1995 which was when everyone suddenly started hearing Posession again in the US even though it had been a single already in 1994. >I >can't understand excluding a lot of *really good* music >that's being made today ("good" is subjective, I know) >for the purposes of playing songs like "Everybody" by >the Backstreet Boys, or the Mariah-Dion-LeAnn songs that >rotate heavily each day, or even the same old "popular" >songs from the early 90's that I've heard lately--is this >what's popular because it's all that's available or is >this really what the public wants to hear? For that I recommend some reading. :) Hit Men by Richard (I think) Danniken. Amazing piece of work. I'm also currently almost halfway through a book called "Off The Charts" by Bruce Haring which is also illuminating. And feel free to scream at me. I am by no means an expert. In fact if it weren't for the Internet I would never have been able to hear most of the AAA stations out there. Or modern rock. None of that stuff gets played up here. In Canada, radio is like listening to eight stations that are all playing the equivalent of MTV's hit list. Period. Any city in Canada, too. I will probably get some screams for that one but that's what I'm hearing anyway. COllege radio here would be great if they could be considered the same status as regular commercial radio, as far as audio quality and overall programming. But it's (in my opinion) too loose and the reception is only good for a few blocks. >I'm curious to hear opinions about the state of radio >today and if anything is or will be done to change the >formats that currently exist? And again I have to say: US is quite a bit further along than Canada at the moment in this regard. >Thanks for your thoughts, hope this makes sense:) And just lookit *me* go. :) Sorry folks. ad - -- /'''              adam@nettwerk.com                   Adam Drake c ..                                        Senior Web Developer     \           http://www.nettweb.com      Nettwerk Productions    - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 02:22:43 -0700 (MST) From: patrickc@primenet.com (patrick &B-{>) Subject: Re: Radio Stations and AAA: Why? At 11:07 PM 9/5/98 -0500, 00jnweiser@bsuvc.bsu.edu wrote: >I'm curious to hear opinions about the state of radio >today and if anything is or will be done to change the >formats that currently exist? > Unfortunately, the majority of the population, let's call it 90%, wants fluffy, easy to like on the first listen, ear candy. Therefore, the radio stations program for the widest possible audience (that is really not paying attention), while simultaneously garnering a SPECIFIC demographic. We had a popular station here in Phoenix that played music from a variety of genres (Ciani to Hendrix to Sting and Tangerine Dream and Led Zeppelin). Everyone listened...but nobody in PARTICULAR. When an advertiser has to spend their dollars efficiently...they look for their customers specifically. The radio station mentioned above had no easily defined demographic. It excluded no age or cultural groups. It had trouble getting advertisers and failed. I doubt that traditional radio will ever (with the exception of public radio) satisfy the wants of that 10% of the population looking for something that invites deeper attention for significant enjoyment. It is not what the majority wants. On a more encouraging note, internet radio stations will fill these niches nicely and create a whole new area in which programming "artists" can create. There will again be the enormous financial pressure to "sell out" and play Celine Dion to earn more from advertisers. However, the internet allows a much larger group access to this medium, increasing the likelyhood that the principles of at least a handful of programmers will remain intact. peace, love, and more ecstasy than you can bear, patrick &B-{> (who hasn't listened to radio for quite a few years) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 09:13:25 -0500 (EST) From: 00jnweiser@bsuvc.bsu.edu Subject: Re: Radio Stations and AAA: Why? Patrick writes: > I doubt that traditional radio will ever (with the exception of >public radio) satisfy the wants of that 10% of the population looking for >something that invites deeper attention for significant enjoyment. It is not >what the majority wants. Well we all know that just because the majority believes something, it doesn't always mean it's right ;) Don't make me get into specific details (I used to study Rhetoric, I know it's one of the fallacies :) I know what you mean, though, I just think it kinda blows. I mean, if they changed it up without telling people and put a little Jonatha Brooke or Radiohead or something similiar to what's already on the radio but of a little higher quality--do you think people would accept it or really notice the difference? I don't know. It's sad, I think. > On a more encouraging note, internet radio stations will fill these >niches nicely and create a whole new area in which programming "artists" can >create. There will again be the enormous financial pressure to "sell out" >and play Celine Dion to earn more from advertisers. However, the internet >allows a much larger group access to this medium, increasing the likelyhood >that the principles of at least a handful of programmers will remain intact. I think the Internet has done great things for a lot of artists. I wouldn't have been exposed to about half of the musicians I like without it and I think there's a sense of community and support for artists on the 'net that you probably won't find elsewhere. >patrick &B-{> (who hasn't listened to radio for quite a few years) Me either. I flip around when I'm in the car and don't have my CD player, but just to see what kind of crap is playing for ammo for my arguments ;) Or I listen to NPR. jessica n. weiser - http://adam.nettfriends.com/Jess "they'll be sorry when the star buries the girl, so help me vanish, help me get myself outta here" - e. gryner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 14:44:32 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Radio Stations and AAA: Why? 00jnweiser@bsuvc.bsu.edu wrote: > Well we all know that just because the majority believes something, > it doesn't always mean it's right ;) Don't make me get into specific > details (I used to study Rhetoric, I know it's one of the fallacies :) On the other hand, that the majority believes something doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong. > I think the Internet has done great things for a lot of artists. I > wouldn't have been exposed to about half of the musicians I like > without it and I think there's a sense of community and support for > artists on the 'net that you probably won't find elsewhere. Agreed. Much of the music that I buy I hear about first on mailing lists, from Cage to ecto to Zorn. > Me either. I flip around when I'm in the car and don't have my CD > player, but just to see what kind of crap is playing for ammo for > my arguments ;) Or I listen to NPR. While at home I tend to listen to less commercial music (lemme see, the stack sitting on my desk right now includes John Cage, Henry Cow, James Blood Ulmer, Asmus Tietchens, and Anonymous 3), I listen to rock radio in my car and like it a lot. Current faves include, hmm, songs by Creed, Aerosmith, Barenaked Ladies, Sarah McLachlan, Matchbox 20, and Temple of the Dog... few of which (except Sarah) I've seen discussed on the lists I hang out in online, and I wouldn't have heard except for the radio. I try to listen for useful stuff in whatever's playing (which, granted, may be a defense reaction brought on by my stepmother's continuous playing of dentist office music). Even though that the music that I make is very non-pop, I know that I've grabbed rhythmic ideas from Barenaked Ladies, lyrical structures from songs sung by Sheryl Crow, and ways of orchestrating from Smashing Pumpkins. There's still a lot of good stuff even among the most popular music, if you let yourself hear it. - -- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 13:08:26 -0700 From: "Adam D." Subject: Re: Radio Stations and AAA: Why? >> I think the Internet has done great things for a lot of artists. I >> wouldn't have been exposed to about half of the musicians I like >> without it and I think there's a sense of community and support for >> artists on the 'net that you probably won't find elsewhere. > >Agreed. Much of the music that I buy I hear about first on mailing >lists, from Cage to ecto to Zorn. I was so fortunate to have worked in or hung out in record stores throughout much of my life. I always go on word of mouth first. If I went with what the radio stations here played, my collection would probably be the most mundane thing in the universe. :/ Kinda cool that the internet has had that kind of effect in only, what, 6 years of mass usage? (possibly more but I'm talking since a lot of people joined it.) ad - -- /'''              adam@nettwerk.com                   Adam Drake c ..                                        Senior Web Developer     \           http://www.nettweb.com      Nettwerk Productions    - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 17:15:20 -0700 (MST) From: patrickc@primenet.com (patrick &B-{>) Subject: Re: Radio Stations and AAA: Why? At 09:13 AM 9/6/98 -0500, 00jnweiser@bsuvc.bsu.edu wrote: >Well we all know that just because the majority believes something, >it doesn't always mean it's right ;) Don't make me get into specific >details (I used to study Rhetoric, I know it's one of the fallacies :) > It depends on your perspective. i, of course, share yours, in that commercial radio, generally, does not appeal to me. If you take the perspective of business...appealing to the broadest possible audience is the safe bet for profit. For those whose sole guide is immediate profit...it is "right". This results in the radio we have today. Not exactly something that will hold the interest of people looking for a thought provoking experience. That can be found in record stores or through the online arena, and of course live! We just need a programming entrepreneur to target intelligent adults as it's demographic. It appears to be an untapped market from my experience ;) It seems preposterous to hold up television as an example, but it offers at least some intellectual programming (and corresponding advertisements). Radio could cater to this group and successfully garner advertisers looking to communicate with them. However they must choose radio over the more obvious and succesful print advertising which has traditionally been where to reach that demographic. Outside of college and public radio...the 10% looking for more will remain overlooked, i'm afraid. peace, love, and more ecstasy than you can bear, patrick &B-{> ------------------------------ End of music-issues-digest V1 #5 ********************************