From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V11 #121 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.pattygriffin.net/PattyInConcertDB.php * OR * go to http://www.atorecords.com * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V8 #___ gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. * Also, PLEASE do not quote an entire digest when you reply to the * list. Edit out anything you are not referring to. mad-mission-digest Wednesday, April 25 2007 Volume 11 : Number 121 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" mad-mission-digest V11 #119 [patrick@carrot] MM: 2 Tix for Patty in Ann Arbor Thursday... [themadtaper@aol.com] MM: respect and Boston [debora le may ] MM: show [jmphlbat@comcast.net] MM: more shows [jmphlbat@comcast.net] Re: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" ["Pintof, Geneen" ] MM: Re: "Not Bad for a Broad" [Steve Berry ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:43:39 -0400 (EDT) From: patrick@carrottoprecords.com Subject: Re: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" mad-mission-digest V11 #119 On Apr 24, 2007, at 6:13 PM, Eric wrote: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" [Eric Phelps ] I feel compelled to say that I'm dismayed by the preponderance of comments in reviews, concert summaries and even some of the postings on this list-serve about what Patty is WEARING, how "good she looks," how "up" she seemed, etc.... Let's give this artist her due without the pedantic notes about shoes, dresses, hot hairstyles and other irrelevant trappings. Hi All. Probably repeating, but hopefully in different words, what others have already written here. It's late and I've got extra energy to burn before bed. Lucky you. I think Eric's question is fair. Hell, it's a fan mailing list. Any on-topic question short of personal attack, except on Eric, is fair. That said, Eric, if you're talking about posts to this list, and you were at least partially, I think the criticism is off-base. Everybody I've come across here loves Patty for herself and for her music or they wouldn't bother subscribing, and those of us who've been fans a bitor in some other cases many bitslonger, recall Patty as possessing enormous talent but lacking in a certain je ne sais quoi while on stage. She seems to have grown not only as a performer but as a person. I think those go hand in hand. Like all of us, that growth comes from the inside out. Doesn't really seem to work the other way, I guess. I surmise that the Stage Patty now more directly mirrors the Personal Patty, and that they've both grown up and out together. It's a lot more fun to watch somebody else having fun and playing with confidence, whatever their talent level, than it is the other way around. As a friend once said to another friend after his staid, turgid set, "Jeff, if it's a chore for you to play, rest assured it's a chore for me to listen to." Even if we all hadn't watched Patty grow up in front of our eyes, if she had somehow arrived in our midst impossibly fully formed on all levels with no room for physical, emotional, creative, or spiritual growth or improvementPallas Athena with a guitar and the most kick ass songbook ever assembledher femaleness, her demeanor, and her appearance would all still merit mentioning and all without knocking her off of her Ionic pedestal base. Unless you belong to a fundamentalist religious sect, sculpting a likeness of Athena for display does not demean Athena. Nor does describing said sculpture of the goddess to someone unable to see it. I am remembering a Q&A with a singer/songwriter whose name is escaping me at the moment. He pointed out that being on stage is not a "normal" mode of existence. Everything on stage is an affectation. Wearing jeans and a flannel shirt or a t-shirt is an affectation. It sends overt and covert signals about what you want your audience to take from your performance, and what projection you expect back from them. Whoever the singer was, he said that given that reality, he preferred to dress up a little bit and acknowledge the specialness of the performance. (And JEEZ I wish I could remember who that was saying it.) Is that a punk rock or proletarian point of view? Not hardly. But Punk was an affectation, too. And acknowledging that doesn't make The Clash, their holier than thou of-the-people pose, bad teeth, scruffy attire, and hair wax any less cool and Godlike. In addition, I would argue that if the only thing PG had going for her was her outfit and sunny smile (where did that come from this year!? It's great!), then we'd be having a different conversation and I wouldn't be here. First, we'd be talking about somebody more like a teen pop sensation, like the train wreck that is Ms. Spears or Jessica Simpson, and not a superior singer/songwriter. (Half-hearted apologies to any fans present.) This tag applies to the false positive critique of a pop artist who's lacking much, if not all, creative talent, but who does a bang up job putting on a show and looks fabulous doing it. Obviously Patty's not in this arena. A second possibility, which I believe relates more directly to your point, is the "not bad for a (pretty) girl" line. "Not bad for a broad" directly implies that the talent level is substandard but that the performer's looks and/or inherent faults as a member of the female gender make the set palatable because you've got an attractive distraction. A sort of affirmative action plan for poor little female singer/songwriters comes to mind. And hooray! the retarded kid picked up the Red Crayola. Acknowledging that our favorite artist also happens to have wonderful taste in clothing no more demeans her than a guitar nerd pointing out that PG's Gibson six string is sweet. Actually, I don't know what brand guitar she plays as I've never managed to get close enough, but it's the broad point that's important (or rather the important broad that's the point), not her guitar brand, though the latent guitar nerd in me wouldn't mind knowing. Has anyone EVER asserted anything close to this on the list? I don't recall it. And if so, what the hell are you doing on this list? Don't you have better things to be doing? And even if some readers have transcended caring what others wear, or how they present themselves on stage, and for them it's all about the music and it could just as well come from a sack of wet mice under a cardboard box or a singing WB frog, many of us haven't. As Kara said, it's a Performance. There's a REASON she puts on the outfit for the show and I can virtually guarantee she's not sporting it on the 6 hour bus ride to Minneapolis. I picture her i sweat pants or cotton capris now that I think about it. For those of us blessed with the senses of sight and sound, the whole enchilada is part of the unNapsterable, rapturous delight of the live performance. It's the one thing that's universal about music, which it looks more and more like the only way outside of advertising that our favorite artists are going to survive. But I digress. Further. If you're going to describe Patty to somebody who has neither seen nor heard her, you're going to point out that this amazing voice with its mesmerizing range of notes, phrasing and styles comes from a tiny, red-headed female body that's usually appointed just so. Likewise, if you're going to describe the Mamas and the Papas, you can't do it without pointing out the vessel bearing Mama Cass's amazing pipes. Undeniable talents in wildly different forms. To my wife's chagrin, I love them both. Outside the Pattyland list: it's my belief and desire that a good live review must set the scene. The whole scene. Venue. Crowd size and energy level. Performer's proficiency, energy level and demeanor. Read any reviews of the Stooges latest tour? Can you find one that DOESN'T mention how hot Iggy looks and how his sculpted, shirtless body stalks the stage? It's part of the show. Ignoring it because you're afraid you'll demean the music by not ignoring it, or because you might offend someone who does feel you're demeaning the music by not ignoring it, or because you feel that some member of your audience isn't capable of holding more than one thought or level in her mind at a time, not only ignores a wide swath of outward reality but demeans the reading audience, along with the performer and that night's performance. All of that said, if a reviewer were so crass as to write up a show with the main theme being "Gollee, that purty girl sure did play good for a purty girl," or "I don't get the hype but I guess the show was OK for somebody who looks as good as she does," or the Texas favorite "She sings really well for a good lookin' female, bless her heart," well, they'd be way off base about Patty, and I reckon nearly any performer worth reviewing, though it's so unprofessional that I can't imagine who'd run such a piece. And I'd be right behind you with a lead pipe in hand to smack the holy hyperbole out of them for writing it. I guess my point, if I have one at this juncture and anybody's still with me, is that I haven't seen any reviews on list or off that have come across to me that waythat have felt just wrong on that level. I went back through many of the reviews on list for the past 6 weeks and I can't find anything even approaching that territory, either written by list members or posted from outside sources. Whether her appearance is written about straightforwardly, or somewhat more derisively for those of us petty enough to care, it's always in context as one element of an otherwise transcendent evening of musical performance for us, and seemingly also for the critics lucky enough to be assigned to cover her shows on this tour. I would say that mentioning it, beyond the most passing of comments, in the context of a straight album review would most likely cross boundaries of good taste, at least for me, with perhaps an exception for a piece that is also introducing a new artist in the context of the album review. So I guess to summarize, I agree with you in principle, but I don't believe that the principle applies in this case. And if I missed some reviews and I'm wrong, I'll back you 100% with said lead pipe or perhaps more appropriately with kinder, gentler, non-lethal rotten tomatoes. Nothing personal, Eric. You've stirred lurkers to rise up from the sedentary mire and write on both sides of the issue, and you've gotten my tired brain working. Though some, including you, may differ on the latter, all worthy goals in my book. Also, I don't remember seeing an answer to Jessica's question about the French song that PG's been singing lately. Oh my. No matter what she looks like in her new sack cloth and ashes, rope belt, pencil eraser earrings, and cardboard boxes for shoes, it is lovely. But the fact that she speaks and sings French, too, well.................... "J'irai la Voir un Jour"' I Will See Her One Day What looks at a glance to be a good translation is available at the link below: http://www.pattygriffin.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Song;action=display;num=1116175315 take care everybody and sorry for so many words, patrick - --------------- patrick monaghan carrot top records, inc./ctd, ltd./sakistore.net chi il us ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:00:18 -0400 From: themadtaper@aol.com Subject: MM: 2 Tix for Patty in Ann Arbor Thursday... Cant go ;-( Two tickets in the balc. ( i think 2nd row center) Michigan theatre. Face value. first person to reply get 'em. david ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:35:08 -0400 From: debora le may Subject: MM: respect and Boston Hi lurker Friday night at Boston. I wanted to write- but I didn't take notes on the set. although I did spend a wonderful time looking at Patty. How she moved. Her smile. Her outfit. I wore a bit of a costume myself, seventies knee high fringe boots, same in a fringe jacket. Black pants poofed above the knee. I like Patty - not as a fashion statement- but as a woman who has mostly dressed to her own drummer. And lived that way. And wrote that way. Patty is not cookie cutter, and she speaks to me with her words, and her presence in the world. Her costume shows who she chooses to let show. Friday she was understated and lovely in a black dress with nude fishnet styled panty hose. No panty line. And the last two encore numbers??? Transcendental. A night spent at the Omni-Parker House, (snuck my Maltese in) And a day in Boston , with my almost eighteen year old daughter , with my love- and an old friend I see once a year..........on a beautiful spring day at the common. Oh Patty- Heavenly Day. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 18:34:22 +0000 From: jmphlbat@comcast.net Subject: MM: show 8/18/2007 Charlottesville Pavillion, Charlottesville, VA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 18:50:55 +0000 From: jmphlbat@comcast.net Subject: MM: more shows 8/17/2007 Cary, NC Koha Booth Ampitheatre with John Prine http://www.boothamphitheatre.com/ pre-sale tickets through JohnPrine's website http://www.johnprine.net/tour.html 8/18/2007 Charlottesville Pavillion, Charlottesville, VA with John Prine Tickets on sale 5/4 at 10:00 AM http://www.charlottesvillepavilion.com/calendar/list/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:09:37 -0400 From: "Pintof, Geneen" Subject: Re: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" forget what she's wearing, what she looks like, etc... I'M ALWAYS amazed at how calm she is when she plays. when i listen to NO BAD NEWS i cannot do so without jumping around and flailing like a lunatic while singing and playing air guitar (nice visual, eh?). how is she always so focused and steady? she's so fabulous, i LUV her! geneen On Apr 24, 2007, at 7:12 PM, Rob Hanning wrote: > I was just thinking pretty much the same thing when I saw her last > month. I've only been going to shows since '02, but I've seen her 10 > times since then, & it's really evident this tour how much more > comfortable she is onstage than she was 5 years ago. To me, it seems > like glamming her image up & really having fun with it is indicative > of how much more she's enjoying herself now than she used to. She > smiles a LOT more onstage than she used to, talks to us more than she > used to, and just generally seems to be really coming into her own up > there. > > --------------------------------------------- > http://www.myspace.com/justfrag > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: FlamingRed74@aol.com > To: Mad-Mission@smoe.org > Subject: Re: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" > Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:49:46 EDT > > My personal feelings on this topic lead me to believe that most of the > listers at least remember Patty as a very shy performer who didn't > always dress up > & look comfortable on stage. Recently though, she's seemed so much > more > comfortable & has not been shy at all when interacting with her > crowds. > > To me, it's hard to believe when watching her that this is the same > performer that I saw for the first time nearly 11 years ago. I > remember going to > shows where Patty was opening, and fans of the headliners always > mentioned how > her voice was so fabulous, but she seemed painfully uncomfortable up > there. > For me though, it was just what I was used to and expected. > > > Dave > > _________________________________________________________________ > Dont quit your job  Take Classes Online and Earn your Degree in 1 > year. Start Today! > http://www.classesusa.com/clickcount.cfm? > id=866146&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classesusa.com%2Ffeaturedschools%2Fonli > nedegreesmp%2Fform-dyn1.html%3Fsplovr%3D866144 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:21:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Berry Subject: MM: Re: "Not Bad for a Broad" Good post and some food for thought. First off, if there are comments about Patty's appearance, or what she wore, I think that these stem more from the fact that Patty's fans respect her, admire her, identify with her, and are interested in all aspects of her artistry -- including how she presents herself in public. It is from love and respect that we mention these details, I think -- not to objectify her or to reduce her to a visual image. My comments apply to those who love her music -- not necessarily to mainstream press or the casual listener. By the way, I am a member of a Steve Earle discussion list, and there is much discussion about his appearance -- his weight (or lack of it) and his hair (or lack of it) etc. Again, it isn't because these are the most important aspects of his artistry -- I think it is because his performances and songwriting have allowed us to feel close to him. And that's true with Patty, too. We identify with her. -- Steve mad-mission-digest wrote: Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:25:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Phelps Subject: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" I feel compelled to say that I'm dismayed by the preponderance of comments in reviews, concert summaries and even some of the postings on this list-serve about what Patty is WEARING, how "good she looks," how "up" she seemed, etc. I have wondered to myself if they say similar things on fan sites for male singer/ songwriters... Does anyone really note (in a major national newspaper) how good JT or Dylan or others LOOKED??? Do people do this to David Wilcox (i.e. "Well, he played his new songs alright, but he sure had on a snappy vest!"). ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V11 #121 **********************************