From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V11 #119 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.pattygriffin.net/PattyInConcertDB.php * OR * go to http://www.atorecords.com * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V8 #___ gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. * Also, PLEASE do not quote an entire digest when you reply to the * list. Edit out anything you are not referring to. mad-mission-digest Tuesday, April 24 2007 Volume 11 : Number 119 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: MM: Drummer and bass player [FlamingRed74@aol.com] MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" [Eric Phelps ] MM: RE: "Not Bad for a Broad" ["Howes, Meghan" ] Re: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" [owner-mad-mission@smoe.org] Re: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" [kara hetz ] Re: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" [FlamingRed74@aol.com] RE: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" ["Roy Larsen" ] Re: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" P.S. [FlamingRed74@aol.com] RE: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" [Rachel Van Gorden ] Re: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" ["Rob Hanning" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:15:54 EDT From: FlamingRed74@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: Drummer and bass player Hi Tricia, Drummer is Michael Longoria (no relation to Eva, or so I've heard..) and bass player is the same one from the FR tour Frank Swart (sp?). I don't believe Frank played on the latest CD, not sure about Michael. Hope this helps. :-) Dave In a message dated 4/23/2007 9:58:06 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tricia_b@comcast.net writes: Hi all: Patty's drummer and bass player opened for her in SF at the Warfield and I can't remember their names. I can't find the liner notes for the cd right now. Can anyone help me out? Thanks, Tricia ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:25:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Phelps Subject: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" I feel compelled to say that I'm dismayed by the preponderance of comments in reviews, concert summaries and even some of the postings on this list-serve about what Patty is WEARING, how "good she looks," how "up" she seemed, etc. I have wondered to myself if they say similar things on fan sites for male singer/songwriters... Does anyone really note (in a major national newspaper) how good JT or Dylan or others LOOKED??? Do people do this to David Wilcox (i.e. "Well, he played his new songs alright, but he sure had on a snappy vest!"). Recently reading a Joni Mitchell biography, I see how much she got pegged as the "beautiful" songwriter. People (often the male industry leaders and critics) were kind of astonished that such a "blonde beauty" could actually PLAY the guitar, write meaningful and gorgeous lyrics. They were often noting how melancholy the work was and then adding comments such: "but she sure looks good." Is Patty being given the same treatment 30 years later? (Guess so). Though couched in compliments, I think it's actually rather un-subtle form of sexism. Patty Larkin has a song called "Not Bad For a Broad" about this redneck club owner dismissing her skills as a musician and songwriter. She wrote it in the early 80s, and (even with her success and La Guitara) the audiences are doing the same to her and other women. When I saw her at the Boston show I was thoroughly impressed with her talents, her depth and the WORK - old and new. I often closed my eyes to just take in the music without the distractions of appearances, lighting and other extraneous stuff. People on this list can agree that Patty is by far one of finer singer/songwriters of the past umpteen years. Let's give this artist her due without the pedantic notes about shoes, dresses, hot hairstyles and other irrelevant trappings. Your responses and comments are welcome - I think this is a topic worth discussion and I'm curious to know what people think (am I way off base here?) Eric West Newton, MA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:26:00 -0600 From: "Howes, Meghan" Subject: MM: RE: "Not Bad for a Broad" No, Eric, I don't think you're way off base, but I do recall many of the reviews mentioning what PG was wearing while also providing a caveat -- something along the lines of "if you're in to that sort of thing" or "for those who care about such things"... And perhaps your message is meant for those who DO care about such things. I'm not one of them, though Patty takes my breath every time I see her. I cannot BELIEVE (still) that I was a mere 10 feet from her in Boulder as she played "Burgundy Shoes". I thought my heart was going to drop out the bottom of my body. But this has NOTHING to do with the way Patty looks. It's all about the sounds that come out of her and the way she plays a guitar (like a locomotion on a world tour--steady, steady, smokin' then steady) not to mention her lyrical genius. Yes I think she's beautiful. She could be 350 lbs and still wreck me as soon as the first strains of Long Ride Home hit the air. I guess the point then is that, in this world, a brilliant 350 lb FEMALE musician, genius or not, doesn't sell records. Or, more aptly put, doesn't attract a label. We are, after all, a society that Sees more, Feels less. That's why everyone should listen to Patty. The feeling part would be unavoidable. Meghan Denver, CO >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org [mailto:owner-mad-mission@smoe.org] On >Behalf Of Eric Phelps >Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 9:25 AM >To: mad-mission@smoe.org >Subject: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" > > > >I feel compelled to say that I'm dismayed by the preponderance of >comments in reviews, concert summaries and even some of the postings on >this list-serve about what Patty is WEARING, how "good she looks," how >"up" she seemed, etc. I have wondered to myself if they say similar >things on fan sites for male singer/songwriters... Does anyone really >note (in a major national newspaper) how good JT or Dylan or others >LOOKED??? Do people do this to David Wilcox (i.e. "Well, he played his >new songs alright, but he sure had on a snappy vest!"). > > > >Recently reading a Joni Mitchell biography, I see how much she got >pegged as the "beautiful" songwriter. People (often the male industry >leaders and critics) were kind of astonished that such a "blonde beauty" >could actually PLAY the guitar, write meaningful and gorgeous lyrics. >They were often noting how melancholy the work was and then adding >comments such: "but she sure looks good." Is Patty being given the same >treatment 30 years later? (Guess so). Though couched in compliments, I >think it's actually rather un-subtle form of sexism. > > > >Patty Larkin has a song called "Not Bad For a Broad" about this redneck >club owner dismissing her skills as a musician and songwriter. She >wrote it in the early 80s, and (even with her success and La Guitara) >the audiences are doing the same to her and other women. > > > >When I saw her at the Boston show I was thoroughly impressed with her >talents, her depth and the WORK - old and new. I often closed my eyes >to just take in the music without the distractions of appearances, >lighting and other extraneous stuff. > > > >People on this list can agree that Patty is by far one of finer >singer/songwriters of the past umpteen years. Let's give this artist >her due without the pedantic notes about shoes, dresses, hot hairstyles >and other irrelevant trappings. > > > >Your responses and comments are welcome - I think this is a topic worth >discussion and I'm curious to know what people think (am I way off base >here?) > > > >Eric >West Newton, MA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:06:07 -0400 From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: Re: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" Eric, I don't think you're far off here or off base. I think, however, that while people on this list may comment on shoes etc., it's with love and affection due to the nature of the list. When "official" reviews go that route, it's a different thing. It is dismissive and condescending. As a professional musician, a classical pianist, I was told in my younger years that while I may be terrific as a pianist, I'll never go anywhere because, and I quote, "You're going to just go off, get married and have babies." You're from the Boston area. Did you read the Globe today (or yesterday) about the inequity *STILL* between men and women's salaries? Okay, sorry folks. i am a lurker but as you can tell, this subject is dear to my heart. I'll stop now. On a happier note, I was at the Boston concert on Friday night. In a word...magical. Truly. Carole - a former lurker....I guesss On Apr 24, 2007, at 11:25 AM, Eric Phelps wrote: > Your responses and comments are welcome - I think this is a topic > worth discussion and I'm curious to know what people think (am I > way off base here?) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 15:35:02 -0700 (PDT) From: kara hetz Subject: Re: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" Eric, I don't think you're off-base. And as a woman, I have the same frustrations sometimes, in many different situations. And as far as the reviewers go, what you said is probably true, to some extent. That said, I think that most of the people on this list already sing Patty's praises in regard to her amazing talent and phenomenal performances. She could be in a t-shirt and sweat pants with no make-up and her hair in knots for all I care. We're there for the music, no matter what. But part of seeing someone perform live is also the visual elements, and costume is part of that. Even reviewers are checking out the entire performance, including what the performer is wearing. I think you are right in saying that it's probable they don't focus in on those things as much with male performers. But I do! : ) I check out everything, 'cause, well, hell, I've got eyes! And as far as whether or not the artist is "up," I have to say that the energy level is definitely part of the quality of the performance. Bottom line for us Mad Missioners, we already know Patty is beautiful, from the inside out. I think people are just looking for other ways to compliment her. Kara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:49:46 EDT From: FlamingRed74@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" My personal feelings on this topic lead me to believe that most of the listers at least remember Patty as a very shy performer who didn't always dress up & look comfortable on stage. Recently though, she's seemed so much more comfortable & has not been shy at all when interacting with her crowds. Her "style" on stage, including what she wears seems so befitting of her, and she truly does look stunningly elegant, if not beautiful. Being that she is more comfortable up there, it's only fitting that all of this has come together and the "whole Patty" as a performer has flourished. To me, it's hard to believe when watching her that this is the same performer that I saw for the first time nearly 11 years ago. I remember going to shows where Patty was opening, and fans of the headliners always mentioned how her voice was so fabulous, but she seemed painfully uncomfortable up there. For me though, it was just what I was used to and expected. Point being, I don't think any long time fans are being sexist in saying how beautiful they thought Patty looked, and commenting on her clothes, etc. It's so delightful to have watched her become the artist that she is today. For the other reviewers, hey.. Patty IS a woman, and since women (IMO) are the beautiful sex.. I don't personally have any problem with them commenting on the appearance of women performers.. If they're tactful in the things they write. Dave In a message dated 4/24/2007 5:53:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ericlphelps@yahoo.com writes: I feel compelled to say that I'm dismayed by the preponderance of comments in reviews, concert summaries and even some of the postings on this list-serve about what Patty is WEARING, how "good she looks," how "up" she seemed, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 15:52:32 -0700 From: "Roy Larsen" Subject: RE: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" I would totally agree with you that looks are irrelevant when considering an artists work product, as in an album review. On the other hand, a performance is a visual, as well as auditory, experience. If it werent, the performer might as well do the whole show in silhouette. This is not to say that a performers perceived beauty, or lack thereof, is relevant, but descriptions of costumes and demeanor, along with sound system, sets, pyrotechnics, banter, etc., certainly are. Keep in mind that this is a fan board. As you point out, its a given that we think Pattys artistic and performance talents are exceptional. So, Pattys look and presence does apply for those of us who would like to vicariously visualize and share in the experience. I think such descriptions are absolutely fair and noteworthy for performance reviews on a fan site, no matter how gushy and adoring they are. :) Roy - ----Original Message Follows---- From: Eric Phelps To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:25:22 -0700 (PDT) I feel compelled to say that I'm dismayed by the preponderance of comments in reviews, concert summaries and even some of the postings on this list-serve about what Patty is WEARING, how "good she looks," how "up" she seemed, etc. I have wondered to myself if they say similar things on fan sites for male singer/songwriters... Does anyone really note (in a major national newspaper) how good JT or Dylan or others LOOKED??? Do people do this to David Wilcox (i.e. "Well, he played his new songs alright, but he sure had on a snappy vest!"). People on this list can agree that Patty is by far one of finer singer/songwriters of the past umpteen years. Let's give this artist her due without the pedantic notes about shoes, dresses, hot hairstyles and other irrelevant trappings. Your responses and comments are welcome - I think this is a topic worth discussion and I'm curious to know what people think (am I way off base here?) Eric West Newton, MA _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:59:28 EDT From: FlamingRed74@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" P.S. Lots of interesting opinions here already, and I do totally agree with the person who pointed out that MM-list reviews of course, are going to be more likely to point out appearance. Being that we are fans interacting, it is just natural that we'd be interested in such things. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:47:43 -0500 From: Rachel Van Gorden Subject: RE: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" Hi everyone. Gosh, I'm a little bit nervous b/c I am a "lurker" and have never addressed the entire group. "Type fingers...type!" :) Eric, I cannot tell you how glad I am to read your post. Thank you. My legs are too tired to stand on a soapbox tonight but I had to pop up just long enough to say that I wholeheartedly agree with what you wrote and was especially moved by the fact that it came from you, a man. All I can say is God help us....the women who do not look like Faith Hill and dare to chase a dream in the business that is music. Almost makes me cry. But it isn't gonna make me stop. God bless all of you. I love being a part of this group. rachel van gorden >Subject: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad"> To: mad-mission@smoe.org I feel compelled to >say that I'm dismayed by the preponderance of comments in reviews, concert >summaries and even some of the postings on this list-serve about what Patty is >WEARING, how "good she looks," how "up" she seemed, etc. I have wondered to >myself if they say similar things on fan sites for male singer/songwriters... >Does anyone really note (in a major national newspaper) how good JT or Dylan >or others LOOKED??? Do people do this to David Wilcox (i.e. "Well, he played >his new songs alright, but he sure had on a snappy vest!"). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:12:36 -0500 From: "Rob Hanning" Subject: Re: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" I was just thinking pretty much the same thing when I saw her last month. I've only been going to shows since '02, but I've seen her 10 times since then, & it's really evident this tour how much more comfortable she is onstage than she was 5 years ago. To me, it seems like glamming her image up & really having fun with it is indicative of how much more she's enjoying herself now than she used to. She smiles a LOT more onstage than she used to, talks to us more than she used to, and just generally seems to be really coming into her own up there. - --------------------------------------------- http://www.myspace.com/justfrag - ----Original Message Follows---- From: FlamingRed74@aol.com To: Mad-Mission@smoe.org Subject: Re: MM: "Not Bad for a Broad" Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:49:46 EDT My personal feelings on this topic lead me to believe that most of the listers at least remember Patty as a very shy performer who didn't always dress up & look comfortable on stage. Recently though, she's seemed so much more comfortable & has not been shy at all when interacting with her crowds. To me, it's hard to believe when watching her that this is the same performer that I saw for the first time nearly 11 years ago. I remember going to shows where Patty was opening, and fans of the headliners always mentioned how her voice was so fabulous, but she seemed painfully uncomfortable up there. For me though, it was just what I was used to and expected. Dave _________________________________________________________________ Dont quit your job  Take Classes Online and Earn your Degree in 1 year. Start Today! http://www.classesusa.com/clickcount.cfm?id=866146&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classesusa.com%2Ffeaturedschools%2Fonlinedegreesmp%2Fform-dyn1.html%3Fsplovr%3D866144 ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V11 #119 **********************************