From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V10 #83 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.pattygriffin.net/PattyInConcertDB.php * OR * go to http://www.atorecords.com * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V8 #___ gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. * Also, PLEASE do not quote an entire digest when you reply to the * list. Edit out anything you are not referring to. mad-mission-digest Tuesday, August 1 2006 Volume 10 : Number 083 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: MM: Best Living Songwriters [Susan ] Re: MM: Re: Re: Re: Best Living Songwriters [Susan ] Re: MM: Re: Re: Re: Best Living Songwriters [magwillman@comcast.net] MM: RE: Re: Best Living Songwriters ["Jacci Geiger" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 00:59:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Subject: Re: MM: Best Living Songwriters i heard that ! Lawrence Israelson wrote: Recognizing that this is primarily a list for die-hard fans of Patty Griffin and thus prone to less-than-objective statements (inhales deep breath), here goes... While I wouldn't go so far as to say that Patty is a better songwriter than luminaries like Dylan, Springsteen, Van Morrison and Neil Young (all of whom are extremely well-represented in my music collection), I would say without equivocation that she is absolutely, positively in the same "league." I was in my late thirties when LWG was released. I consider myself quite open-minded when it comes to music, but by that age I was also fairly certain that it was highly unlikely that anybody "new" could crack my personal Top 10 artists/albums/songs, etc. Patty Griffin's music took that assumption and utterly destroyed it. A few years back, Time magazine proclaimed Lucinda Williams something like "best songwriter." (I no longer remember the exact title or criteria.) I really, really like Lucinda Williams. I've seen her perform live, I own "Car Wheels" and "Essence," and I thoroughly enjoy loudly singing along to "Can't Let Go." In my humble opinion, however, Lucinda Williams is not in the same league as Patty Griffin. For me, what puts Patty in that highest echelon is her mastery of both lyric and melody. I would be the first to admit that many of my favorite lyricists (especially Dylan, Young, Elvis Costello and Graham Parker) often seem to treat melody as an afterthought, while I can think of many Patty songs that would be beautiful even if they were just poems or just instrumental guitar pieces. (Does that make sense?) To be honest, though, lyrics have always been "the thing" for me, and so many Patty lyrics simply astonish me with their beauty, their subtlety, and the way they express core truths about humanity: "You can't make somebody see/With the simple words you say/All their beauty from within/Sometimes they just look away" or "Forty years of things you say you wish you'd never said/How hard would it have been to say some kinder words instead?" or "I wish I'd have known you/I wish I'd have shown you/All of the things I/Was on the inside/But I'd pretend to be sleeping" of "It's a mad mission under difficult conditions/Not everybody makes it to the loving cup" Face it, with Patty Griffin I could go on and on. There is no doubt that our society has a short attention span, especially when it comes to matters of entertainment and pop culture. Oscars tend to go to movies released late in the year. "Best of" lists are routinely marred by too many "recent" entries. My teen-aged daughter can listen to Nirvana Unplugged or even 1000 Kisses and have no inkling that "Where Did You Sleep Last Night?" and "Tomorrow Night" were both written before her father was even born. Once in awhile, however, a talent so undeniable comes along that a relatively small "sample size" (in this case, only four studio albums) shouldn't automatically disqualify it from being mentioned as one of the all-time greats. I believe that Patty Griffin possesses that sort of exceptional talent. Peace, Larry I in LA <-----Original Message-----> From: Michael Tatlow Sent: 7/31/2006 10:33:14 AM To: o.hugues@wanadoo.fr;mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: Re: Re: Re: Best Living Songwriters Wow, Don't get me wrong, I love Patty's music, especially her live performances, however I sure she wouldn't even put herself in the same neighborhood as Neil Young and Bruce Springsteen. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "hugues" To: Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 11:32 AM Subject: MM: Re: Re: Best Living Songwriters >I guess it's hard to dissociate Patty's lyrics from her music and vocals > > great lyrics + great voice + great music = hard to beat > > I 'd put Patty Griffin above Neil Young and Bruce Springsteen... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Tatlow" > To: ; <> > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 3:32 PM > Subject: MM: Re: Best Living Songwriters > > >> While I love Patty's songwriting, this is a very generous ranking. . _______________________________________________________________ Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at http://www.mail2world.com Unlimited Email Storage  POP3  Calendar  SMS  Translator  Much More! Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 01:01:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Subject: Re: MM: Re: Re: Re: Best Living Songwriters I am not sure if people are measuring over inflated egos or songwriting talent. As I said to Hughues.. the comparison between men and womens talents and feelings are soo totally different. I am always blown away when I meet people (men) that dig Joni Mitchell and Patty Griffin for ex. All I can say is that I realte to these women because they communicate and make me feel something in my soul.....isnt that it ? Music ? Olivia Olson wrote: Well, Bruce and Neil are iconic classics- in that regard Patty doesn't measure up. But on songwriting merits alone, I wouldn't hesitate to put Patty amongst those giants. While I've always loved Neil Young, I was surprized to see him as the #2 songwriter. Personally, I think Patty (not to mention Joni Mitchell and Paul Simon) is better songwriter than he is. Just mho. Olivia Michael Tatlow wrote: Wow, Don't get me wrong, I love Patty's music, especially her live performances, however I sure she wouldn't even put herself in the same neighborhood as Neil Young and Bruce Springsteen. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "hugues" To: Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 11:32 AM Subject: MM: Re: Re: Best Living Songwriters >I guess it's hard to dissociate Patty's lyrics from her music and vocals > > great lyrics + great voice + great music = hard to beat > > I 'd put Patty Griffin above Neil Young and Bruce Springsteen... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Tatlow" > To: ; <> > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 3:32 PM > Subject: MM: Re: Best Living Songwriters > > >> While I love Patty's songwriting, this is a very generous ranking. - --------------------------------- Groups are talking. We4re listening. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups. - --------------------------------- Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 09:00:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Bouchie Subject: MM: Re: Re: Re: Best Living Songwriters The problem with ranking musicians and artists is that art then becomes competetive and objective. Art shouldn't be competetive or objective. Art is and should be subjective. I like lots of stuff other people don't like and they like lots of things I don't like. That doesn't make any of it better or worse than anthing else. It's all personal taste. Matt Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 10:19:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Berry Subject: MM: Re: Best Living Songwriters The best write-up in that issue of Paste was by Jon Langford about Van Morrison. Worth reading! About Patty, in my opinion, she belongs near the top of the list, and I think the Paste ranking is fair. It is true that she hasn't had as long a career as many of the other writers honored, but in her (relatively) short music career, she has performed music in quite a number of styles -- from the all-out rock of "Flaming Read" to the quiet and wistful style she has employed more recently. Her songs have been accepted and covered by some significant artists. In her songs, she expresses some profound emotions and ideas on a number of levels. She's had her share of career difficulties, too -- very much like artists who have been recording for many decades. She even has a great unreleased album which is the equal of her released albums. In summary, Patty has it all, and she's covered a lot of ground in her career so far. I look forward to what comes next. -- Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 17:23:20 +0000 From: magwillman@comcast.net Subject: Re: MM: Re: Re: Re: Best Living Songwriters well said matt! - -Maggie -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Matt Bouchie > The problem with ranking musicians and artists is that > art then becomes competetive and objective. Art > shouldn't be competetive or objective. Art is and > should be subjective. I like lots of stuff other > people don't like and they like lots of things I don't > like. That doesn't make any of it better or worse > than anthing else. It's all personal taste. > > Matt > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 12:04:31 -0600 From: "Jacci Geiger" Subject: MM: RE: Re: Best Living Songwriters We saw her in Boulder last week, and I couldn't agree more...she is amazing, beautiful and unbelievable understated and under estimated. She is a true artist, not really there to make a buck, but to make music that makes a difference, to us maybe, but to her. She played some of her new stuff that is suppose to come out at the beginning of next year....gorgeous! One inspired by Martin Luther King..."I climbed the mountain, because you asked me to", and one that had a great tune with words like "I drank as much as I could swallow and the moon followed me home"...great one!!! She meet us in the "alley" after the show, and as always, gracious and tiny. Took a picture with my 16 year old son who is possibly a bigger fan than I am. He is a student of guitar right now and appreciates her ability...she played with Doug, forgot the last name, but he too was amazing, he just followed her where ever she went musically and they were superb! I will always have Patty at the top of my list, always. She moves me and I am never tried of her sad ballads - -----Original Message----- From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org [mailto:owner-mad-mission@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Steve Berry Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 11:19 AM To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: Re: Best Living Songwriters The best write-up in that issue of Paste was by Jon Langford about Van Morrison. Worth reading! About Patty, in my opinion, she belongs near the top of the list, and I think the Paste ranking is fair. It is true that she hasn't had as long a career as many of the other writers honored, but in her (relatively) short music career, she has performed music in quite a number of styles -- from the all-out rock of "Flaming Read" to the quiet and wistful style she has employed more recently. Her songs have been accepted and covered by some significant artists. In her songs, she expresses some profound emotions and ideas on a number of levels. She's had her share of career difficulties, too -- very much like artists who have been recording for many decades. She even has a great unreleased album which is the equal of her released albums. In summary, Patty has it all, and she's covered a lot of ground in her career so far. I look forward to what comes next. -- Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 19:11:25 +0100 From: "Steve Mercer \(MDM\)" Subject: MM: Re: Re: Re: Re: Best Living Songwriters ok - peronal taste... But its nice to talk about the music we love and we all live and learn from each others opinions. For instance, until two weeks ago I didnt know Emm Gryner or Sonya Kitchell music (I do now and am glad of it-Thanks to those who pointed me in the direction). Also, I do agree with you on the subjective issue, but when the artist displays an obvious talent for clever writing(opinion again maybe) then it does throw it all in the air again, some are more capable than others? Patty combines all - good songs, wonderful vocals and beautiful melody (As Olivia says: SOUL) Up there with Neil Young/Bob Dylan etc.. Definately! Bye Steve M P.S. Yes Larry it does make sense. Really enjoyed reading your message - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Bouchie" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 5:00 PM Subject: MM: Re: Re: Re: Best Living Songwriters > The problem with ranking musicians and artists is that > art then becomes competetive and objective. Art > shouldn't be competetive or objective. Art is and > should be subjective. I like lots of stuff other > people don't like and they like lots of things I don't > like. That doesn't make any of it better or worse > than anthing else. It's all personal taste. > > Matt > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 15:55:59 -0400 From: freckledangel@aol.com Subject: MM: Best Living Songwriters Someone wrote: "Wow, don't get me wrong, I love Patty's music, especially her live performances, however I sure she wouldn't even put herself in the same neighborhood as Neil Young and Bruce Springsteen." Jack Hardy is one of the best living songwriters. Why wasn't he on this list? And I agree with the person who said Joni Mitchell and Paul Simon should be up there over Neil Young. Was Lucinda Williams on the list? She kicks ass. Glad Patty made it! She's a fine songwriter, and such a talented and humble lady. ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 12:49:07 -0700 From: "Lawrence Israelson" Subject: MM: 07/21 Boulder show My wife and I were at that show as well. I was in Denver on business and my wife was able to come out for the weekend (love those frequent flyer miles!). As you may recall from my "begging" e-mail that I sent about two weeks ago, the show was a sellout and I ended up paying scalpers' prices, but my only regret is that the extra money went to the guy with the tickets and not Patty and Doug Lancio. The venue seats about 850 and the crowd seemed really into it. :-) BTW, this show was sponsored by a radio station I had never heard of (and I spend about 90 days a year in Denver): KCUV 102.3 FM. This station gives the venerable KBCO-FM a run for its money, and I really hope it catches on. Besides having Patty music in regular rotation, I heard off-the-wall-but-cool stuff like Shivaree's "Goodnight Moon" and Tony Joe White's "Polk Salad Annie"--it was like they stole my iPod. Following is the set list with some random notes. Titles in quotation marks are newer songs that I'm just guessing at--feel free to chime in if you know the actual titles. Based on the strength of these unfamiliar songs, I cannot wait for the new album! Forgiveness "I Said To The Sky" - seemed to be about perseverance through hard times, asking a higher power for permission to give up and being told "it's not your turn to go" Love Throw A Line "Old Man's Daughter" - sorry but poor note-taking here; she mentions being an "old man's daughter" in one of the first few lines and then...damn, I've got nothin' else No Bad News - rocker with a message that I first heard in Seattle last August and couldn't wait to hear again; just as good if not better than I remembered Burgundy Shoes - on piano; something she said she wrote after being challenged to write a "happy" song; it may be based on a happy memory but it's still pretty wistful Making Pies Useless Desires - second time I've seen Patty fail to finish a song (at the John Anson Ford in LA a couple of years ago, her little dog [Lottie?] ran on stage while she was playing "Florida" and the crowd went crazy; Patty seemed puzzled by the sudden enthusiasm until the dog jumped on her leg, which pretty much stopped her cold); this time, she stopped once to re-tune her guitar and then stopped again (permanently) when she couldn't remember the line that starts with "Weekend Edition..." "Stand-Up Guy" - on the surface, about an old man who gets on a bus and doesn't know/care where he's going, but I suspect additional listenings would suggest another level of meaning Be Careful It Doesn't Matter Anymore - after which Patty gave a plug for Linda Ronstadt, but this song was originally written by Paul Anka for Buddy Holly "The Moon's Gonna Follow Me Home" - the other "new" song from Seattle that I couldn't wait to hear again, and it didn't disappoint; just lovely When It Don't Come Easy Long Ride Home I Went Up To The Mountain - aka "Peaceful Valley" or "The MLK Song," but this was the title she gave when introducing it in Boulder Tomorrow Night Moon River ENCORE Moses - first time I've seen her do this one live :-) "Up Or Down" - piano; had a Tom Waits vibe but I think it's one of Patty's new ones (please set me straight if I'm wrong) Let Him Fly Peace, Larry I in LA <-----Original Message-----> From: Jacci Geiger Sent: 8/1/2006 11:18:31 AM To: scberry@yahoo.com;mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: RE: Re: Best Living Songwriters We saw her in Boulder last week, and I couldn't agree more...she is amazing, beautiful and unbelievable understated and under estimated. She is a true artist, not really there to make a buck, but to make music that makes a difference, to us maybe, but to her. She played some of her new stuff that is suppose to come out at the beginning of next year....gorgeous! One inspired by Martin Luther King..."I climbed the mountain, because you asked me to", and one that had a great tune with words like "I drank as much as I could swallow and the moon followed me home"...great one!!! She meet us in the "alley" after the show, and as always, gracious and tiny. Took a picture with my 16 year old son who is possibly a bigger fan than I am. He is a student of guitar right now and appreciates her ability...she played with Doug, forgot the last name, but he too was amazing, he just followed her where ever she went musically and they were superb! I will always have Patty at the top of my list, always. She moves me and I am never tried of her sad ballads - -----Original Message----- From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org [mailto:owner-mad-mission@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Steve Berry Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 11:19 AM To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: Re: Best Living Songwriters The best write-up in that issue of Paste was by Jon Langford about Van Morrison. Worth reading! About Patty, in my opinion, she belongs near the top of the list, and I think the Paste ranking is fair. It is true that she hasn't had as long a career as many of the other writers honored, but in her (relatively) short music career, she has performed music in quite a number of styles -- from the all-out rock of "Flaming Read" to the quiet and wistful style she has employed more recently. Her songs have been accepted and covered by some significant artists. In her songs, she expresses some profound emotions and ideas on a number of levels. She's had her share of career difficulties, too -- very much like artists who have been recording for many decades. She even has a great unreleased album which is the equal of her released albums. In summary, Patty has it all, and she's covered a lot of ground in her career so far. I look forward to what comes next. - -- Steve .

_______________________________________________________________
Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at http://www.mail2world.com
Unlimited Email Storage – POP3 – Calendar – SMS – Translator – Much More! ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V10 #83 *********************************