From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V9 #164 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.pattygriffin.net/PattyInConcertDB.php * OR * go to http://www.atorecords.com * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V8 #___ gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. * Also, PLEASE do not quote an entire digest when you reply to the * list. Edit out anything you are not referring to. mad-mission-digest Wednesday, September 7 2005 Volume 09 : Number 164 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: RE: song request issue ["Bruce Greenberg" ] MM: Re: RE: song request issue ["hugues" ] MM: RE: Re: RE: song request issue ["Bruce Greenberg" ] Re: MM: please take me off list.. ["Jessica Jones" ] Re: MM: song request issue ["hugues" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 23:04:45 -0700 From: "Bruce Greenberg" Subject: MM: RE: song request issue I believe it was Melissa Etheridge who mentioned that she had a book of 70 songs that she took on tour with her (this was a few years ago at least). So, it was amazing to hear that on his current tour, Bruce Springsteen has played 115 different songs... so far. Most artists probably only learn 30 or 40 for a tour. When I mentioned Jill Sobule in a previous post, Hughes wrote: "Well, artists like Jill Sobule or Amy Rigby and others often ask requests because they often don't know what to sing next!" I'm sure you didn't mean it as an insult, but that is the way it comes out. My feeling is that Jill's show is very much about audience participation. That is her "art" along with her songwriting. These days (she's playing Largo in L.A. Wednesday) she brings a laptop on stage with her and at least 3 or 4 times during the show has an audience member hold the laptop with her lyrics on it. There are other ways to do this of course. But, when you are holding her laptop and she's singing a beautiful love song like "Never My Love" and then leans over and says, "I want you to sing the rest of the song with me" and you're cheek to cheek with her at the microphone, well, it works for everyone. That isn't Patty by any stretch of the imagination; and that's great. I love knowing that Patty has prepared a performance for us and I would never think of yelling a song out during her performance. I am sad knowing that I will probably never hear "Every Little Bit" live again (it was the song that started my passion for her), but I have to respect her artistry. Bruce Greenberg - -----Original Message----- From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org [mailto:owner-mad-mission@smoe.org] On Behalf Of SteveD Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 3:32 PM To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: song request issue I think John McGuire answered this correctly (and he would know) but I'd just like to add that when you have a song bag with potentially 100+ songs, it is nearly impossible to have them all practiced up to the point where you can do them justice, just in case you get a request. Those of you who have performed regularly know this fact all too well. Also, Patty is the least likely artist to be rude. She is the sweetest, kindest artist I've even met. The original complainer smacks of a troll. We all should just be grateful that Patty is out there doing the quality work that she does. - -SteveD quote:"What the heck gives with Patty anyway? She rudely doesn't take requests." - --------------------------------- Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 09:22:24 +0200 From: "hugues" Subject: MM: Re: RE: song request issue > When I mentioned Jill Sobule in a previous post, Hughes wrote: "Well, > artists like Jill Sobule or Amy Rigby and others often ask requests > because they often don't know what to sing next!" I'm sure you didn't > mean it as an insult, but that is the way it comes out. My feeling is > that Jill's show is very much about audience participation. That is her > "art" along with her songwriting. These days (she's playing Largo in > L.A. Wednesday) she brings a laptop on stage with her and at least 3 or > 4 times during the show has an audience member hold the laptop with her > lyrics on it. There are other ways to do this of course. But, when you > are holding her laptop and she's singing a beautiful love song like > "Never My Love" and then leans over and says, "I want you to sing the > rest of the song with me" and you're cheek to cheek with her at the > microphone, well, it works for everyone. Yeah, I know all that, as I have the DVD where she does exactly all that - but it's a very different audience, way smaller (no more than fifty persons), often composed of close fans. I didn't find my observation insulting. I also have a DVD of Amy Rigby. Both ask their audience what they would like to listen to. Jill and Amy have a really interesting personality and that's what captivates me in the first place - they're so REAL and have not much to do with the show business. In some way, it's almost like listening to Old Timey, you know. That's what I like about it. I'm hating more and more the show business, and foolish, meaningless pyrotechnical stadium shows... I don't mind of Bruce Springsteen at all, for example. I really think we need close reality shows (of course I'm not thinking of stupid TV ones), and who knows, maybe there will be a hype one day about those kind of shows, if only the media empire could die. :o) Cheers Hugues ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 01:27:22 -0700 From: "Bruce Greenberg" Subject: MM: RE: Re: RE: song request issue I stopped going to stadium shows years ago. Only Springsteen can get me into an arena. In fact, if Patty were to get a bit bigger, I'd bypass her shows too. It isn't that arena shows are inherently bad. It is just that the arena crowds suck (which is a whole other thread). Bruce Greenberg - -----Original Message----- From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org [mailto:owner-mad-mission@smoe.org] On Behalf Of hugues Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 12:22 AM To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: Re: RE: song request issue > When I mentioned Jill Sobule in a previous post, Hughes wrote: "Well, > artists like Jill Sobule or Amy Rigby and others often ask requests > because they often don't know what to sing next!" I'm sure you didn't > mean it as an insult, but that is the way it comes out. My feeling is > that Jill's show is very much about audience participation. That is her > "art" along with her songwriting. These days (she's playing Largo in > L.A. Wednesday) she brings a laptop on stage with her and at least 3 or > 4 times during the show has an audience member hold the laptop with her > lyrics on it. There are other ways to do this of course. But, when you > are holding her laptop and she's singing a beautiful love song like > "Never My Love" and then leans over and says, "I want you to sing the > rest of the song with me" and you're cheek to cheek with her at the > microphone, well, it works for everyone. Yeah, I know all that, as I have the DVD where she does exactly all that - - but it's a very different audience, way smaller (no more than fifty persons), often composed of close fans. I didn't find my observation insulting. I also have a DVD of Amy Rigby. Both ask their audience what they would like to listen to. Jill and Amy have a really interesting personality and that's what captivates me in the first place - they're so REAL and have not much to do with the show business. In some way, it's almost like listening to Old Timey, you know. That's what I like about it. I'm hating more and more the show business, and foolish, meaningless pyrotechnical stadium shows... I don't mind of Bruce Springsteen at all, for example. I really think we need close reality shows (of course I'm not thinking of stupid TV ones), and who knows, maybe there will be a hype one day about those kind of shows, if only the media empire could die. :o) Cheers Hugues ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 03:55:02 -0700 (PDT) From: will Subject: MM: RE: song request issue <> Bruce doesn't need a book or even perfect memory, because he uses a teleprompter for the lyrics. No complaint from me though...I've seen him twice this tour and appreciated the varied set list. Jackson Browne on the other hand, does not use a teleprompter or a set list for his solo shows. I've seen him several times solo...in Toledo two years ago he played 30 songs, more than 20 of them were requested. He does stumble with the lyrics on the rarely played songs though. Will ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 08:11:35 -0700 From: "Jessica Jones" Subject: Re: MM: please take me off list.. Please take me off too. >>> 9/6/2005 5:53:09 PM >>> thank you ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 11:37:30 -0400 From: "Paul Russell" Subject: RE: MM: song request issue **********making up for evil gary a bit here while I'm sober and feeling prickish********** oh boo hoo! My name is Patty Griffin and I can't remember songs even though I've only released a half dozen albums (fewer actually)! Give me a break, genius. You two are retarded. What are you saying? That women can't remember songs but men can or something? Well, if a band that makes money playing songs for a living can't remember their own material, that's sort of being a hack performer. AC/DC plays songs from like 30 years ago and Scott isn't even playing with them anymore (yes, the songs are simple and usually the same chords, that's not my point). It's not like Patty is waiting tables or an air traffic controller during the day or something. She eats and breathes music now. Do you know how boring it can be driving from place to place? Plenty of time to say "you know what? Why don't I play "yadda yadda" tonight while y'all are re-tuning for "yadda part II?" I don't request songs (unless I know them and they are my friends). I don't really care otherwise. I'm pointing out my observations being on this list. However, you are just "covering" for a musician you don't even know? Oh yeah I know. "I've met her and she's really sweet." Jesus, that's exactly what people say about meeting former President Clinton (I kid you not, I've read two editorials with that exact wording about how sweet he is, one in 1995 at ASU and one in 1997 at BU). When's the last time you spoke with her on a telephone? She just calls you up and says "Oh hi Steve. Man, this tour is killing me. All these requests. What do they think I am? Oh I've got to call John McGuire next; he's on my speed dial." So you're telling me that if her name was Billy Joel or Elton John or Bruce Springsteen or Jackson Browne, then she'd have to know quite a few more songs, because they certainly have more songs under their belt. David Bowie had a special tour to retire old songs so he wouldn't have to play them anymore. Does Patty Griffin have that many songs? Maybe she should do a retire tour. Oh, these fans with their requests. Why don't they shut up already? Just give me your money to see me play, then leave. That's pretty rude to me. Yes, she rudely doesn't take requests. Saying things like: "I'm sorry, I would have to re-tune my guitar for that one and it would take up too much time from the regular set" or "I would need to practice that one a few times before I feel comfortable playing it again" or even "that song doesn't keep up with the mood for the rest of the set" are all nice responses to disruptive fans shouting out stupid requests. Simply plodding up to the mic and saying "I don't do requests" is rude. As you recall, I didn't say she should have every song she ever wrote memorized. I said she should have about two songs she knows her hardcore fans like on hand. Then if that song is requested, she could play it. And viola, she is playing a request without playing a request. I'm sorry, but she's still on my "doesn't like her fans" list: A) She knows her hardcore fans think her band is too loud and drown her out....and she does nothing B) She flat out refuses to take requests, even before a show C) Next she would need to actually spit on her fans to secure her place up at the top of the list. There's nothing wrong about not liking your fans. I like a few artists who don't like fans at all. The music is still great. Patty Griffin is no exception because she's an awesome singer/songwriter. I'm just pointing out what is obvious. Some fans on this list just don't see the forest from the trees. They surround themselves with the good and jump on anyone who says anything they perceive to be bad about Patty Griffin. I love Patty Griffin. There's nothing bad about not liking your fans, some musicians like fans and some musicians don't. Enraptured by her voice since 1997? Yes, I am. Going to her shows and not request something? Of course I go and won't request any songs. I'll be too drunk to even speak. Noticing that her actions are not as sweet and nice as everyone says? You bet. Maybe if she truly is as sweet and kind and caring as everyone says, then she'll work harder to improve customer service. Because when it boils down to the pot, fans are customers. Now, I'll go see how well wine actually keeps overnight and get drinking. Peace love and vegetable rights, Paul ************************************* * * You can stop masterbating vigorously, * by the way. * * -- Paul Russell (me!) * Long story, you don't want to know * ************************************* - ----Original Message Follows---- From: SteveD To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: song request issue Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 15:31:57 -0700 (PDT) I think John McGuire answered this correctly (and he would know) but I'd just like to add that when you have a song bag with potentially 100+ songs, it is nearly impossible to have them all practiced up to the point where you can do them justice, just in case you get a request. Those of you who have performed regularly know this fact all too well. Also, Patty is the least likely artist to be rude. She is the sweetest, kindest artist I've even met. The original complainer smacks of a troll. We all should just be grateful that Patty is out there doing the quality work that she does. - -SteveD quote:"What the heck gives with Patty anyway? She rudely doesn't take requests." - --------------------------------- Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 18:34:19 +0200 From: "hugues" Subject: Re: MM: song request issue Until then we seemed to discuss. Let's admire how the human kind can get annoyingly stupid. You have a stunning example below. That would work for an instructive documentary. Hugues - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Russell" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 5:37 PM Subject: RE: MM: song request issue > **********making up for evil gary a bit here while I'm sober and feeling > prickish********** > > oh boo hoo! > > My name is Patty Griffin and I can't remember songs even though I've only > released a half dozen albums (fewer actually)! > > Give me a break, genius. > > You two are retarded. What are you saying? That women can't remember songs > but men can or something? Well, if a band that makes money playing songs > for a living can't remember their own material, that's sort of being a hack > performer. AC/DC plays songs from like 30 years ago and Scott isn't even > playing with them anymore (yes, the songs are simple and usually the same > chords, that's not my point). It's not like Patty is waiting tables or an > air traffic controller during the day or something. She eats and breathes > music now. Do you know how boring it can be driving from place to place? > Plenty of time to say "you know what? Why don't I play "yadda yadda" tonight > while y'all are re-tuning for "yadda part II?" > > > I don't request songs (unless I know them and they are my friends). I don't > really care otherwise. I'm pointing out my observations being on this list. > However, you are just "covering" for a musician you don't even know? > > Oh yeah I know. "I've met her and she's really sweet." Jesus, that's > exactly what people say about meeting former President Clinton (I kid you > not, I've read two editorials with that exact wording about how sweet he is, > one in 1995 at ASU and one in 1997 at BU). When's the last time you spoke > with her on a telephone? She just calls you up and says "Oh hi Steve. Man, > this tour is killing me. All these requests. What do they think I am? Oh > I've got to call John McGuire next; he's on my speed dial." > > So you're telling me that if her name was Billy Joel or Elton John or Bruce > Springsteen or Jackson Browne, then she'd have to know quite a few more > songs, because they certainly have more songs under their belt. David Bowie > had a special tour to retire old songs so he wouldn't have to play them > anymore. Does Patty Griffin have that many songs? Maybe she should do a > retire tour. > > Oh, these fans with their requests. Why don't they shut up already? Just > give me your money to see me play, then leave. That's pretty rude to me. > Yes, she rudely doesn't take requests. Saying things like: > > "I'm sorry, I would have to re-tune my guitar for that one and it would take > up too much time from the regular set" or > > "I would need to practice that one a few times before I feel comfortable > playing it again" or even > > "that song doesn't keep up with the mood for the rest of the set" are all > nice responses to disruptive fans shouting out stupid requests. Simply > plodding up to the mic and saying "I don't do requests" is rude. > > As you recall, I didn't say she should have every song she ever wrote > memorized. I said she should have about two songs she knows her hardcore > fans like on hand. Then if that song is requested, she could play it. And > viola, she is playing a request without playing a request. > > I'm sorry, but she's still on my "doesn't like her fans" list: > A) She knows her hardcore fans think her band is too loud and drown her > out....and she does nothing > B) She flat out refuses to take requests, even before a show > C) Next she would need to actually spit on her fans to secure her place up > at the top of the list. > > There's nothing wrong about not liking your fans. I like a few artists who > don't like fans at all. The music is still great. Patty Griffin is no > exception because she's an awesome singer/songwriter. I'm just pointing out > what is obvious. Some fans on this list just don't see the forest from the > trees. They surround themselves with the good and jump on anyone who says > anything they perceive to be bad about Patty Griffin. I love Patty Griffin. > There's nothing bad about not liking your fans, some musicians like fans > and some musicians don't. > > Enraptured by her voice since 1997? Yes, I am. > > Going to her shows and not request something? Of course I go and won't > request any songs. I'll be too drunk to even speak. > > Noticing that her actions are not as sweet and nice as everyone says? You > bet. > > Maybe if she truly is as sweet and kind and caring as everyone says, then > she'll work harder to improve customer service. Because when it boils down > to the pot, fans are customers. > > Now, I'll go see how well wine actually keeps overnight and get drinking. > > Peace love and vegetable rights, > > Paul > > > > > > ************************************* > * > * You can stop masterbating vigorously, > * by the way. > * > * -- Paul Russell (me!) > * Long story, you don't want to know > * > ************************************* > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: SteveD > To: mad-mission@smoe.org > Subject: MM: song request issue > Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 15:31:57 -0700 (PDT) > > I think John McGuire answered this correctly (and he would know) but I'd > just like to add that when you have a song bag with potentially 100+ songs, > it is nearly impossible to have them all practiced up to the point where you > can do them justice, just in case you get a request. Those of you who have > performed regularly know this fact all too well. > > Also, Patty is the least likely artist to be rude. She is the sweetest, > kindest artist I've even met. The original complainer smacks of a troll. We > all should just be grateful that Patty is out there doing the quality work > that she does. > -SteveD > > quote:"What the heck gives with Patty anyway? She rudely doesn't take > requests." > > > > --------------------------------- > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V9 #164 *********************************