From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V9 #162 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.pattygriffin.net/PattyInConcertDB.php * OR * go to http://www.atorecords.com * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V8 #___ gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. * Also, PLEASE do not quote an entire digest when you reply to the * list. Edit out anything you are not referring to. mad-mission-digest Tuesday, September 6 2005 Volume 09 : Number 162 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: Patty does what she wants to do ["hugues" ] MM: Patty / requests ["hugues" ] Re: MM: Please, again, no politics on this list [Oldrancocas@aol.com] RE: MM: giving to charity ["Paul Russell" ] Re: MM: Please, again, no politics on this list ["Dennis Flynn" ] MM: No politics, slow MM list, pattygriffin.net etc etc ["Connell, Michae] MM: NPC Mark Erelli mp3 ["Becca Jarry" ] Re: MM: Patty does what she wants to do ["hugues" ] Re: MM: No politics, slow MM list, pattygriffin.net etc etc [jmphlbat@com] RE: MM: Patty does what she wants to do ["Paul Russell" Subject: MM: Patty does what she wants to do > What the heck gives with Patty anyway? She rudely doesn't take requests. > And she plays with a band that usually plays "too loud" for a lot on this > list. And she knows about this, and she and the band don't seem to care. > > Thank goodness she went on that duet tour a while ago or she would have been > toward the top of my list of "artists who do not care about their fans" > list. > > For someone as talented and wonderful singer as she is, she doesn't seem to > like her fans very much, or at least us hardcore fans here on the list. And > it's surprising how many don't even think twice about it. I hear all the > time "well it was kind of loud" or "well they were drowning out Patty again" > or "of course she had to tell these two dumb fans that she doesn't do > requests." I'm quite amazed to read this. Not about how Patty acts, but how "fans" react. I mean, an artist doesn't have to do requests. You don't even understand why? Just listen to what she has to offer. She probably sings what she feels about to sing. She's not an answering machine. Patty sings with soul. Other artists can do requests with soul? Fine. Apparently Patty can't. I don't see why she would have to deal with some modern fanship rules or habits. She may not see the musical world that way. And it may be why she's like she is. If she was different than she actually is, she may not record the songs she does. She couldn't be that special. Ever thought about that? ;o) Hugues ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:31:16 +0200 From: "hugues" Subject: MM: Patty / requests > But I when I made > a pre-request for her show in L.A. (which was just a few weeks away) she > was very upfront about not playing the song I wanted. Not everyone can > be a Shawn Colvin or Jill Sobule (who always play requests during their > shows). > > Bruce Well, artists like Jill Sobule or Amy Rigby and others often ask requests because they often don't know what to sing next!... They sing with soul, though. They know how to sing the songs they wrote with the right feelings. The difference with Patty may be that Patty adds an important performing dimension to the songs she wrote. Jill Sobule or Amy Rigby are songwriters first, and offer their songs the way they can, with their personal charm and wit. Patty isn't only a songwriter, she's also a performer of a higher range. That said, Patty could remind herself that the great Billie Holiday did requests... but we live in modern times with better human rights as well! I said "better", not "perfect"............(censored!) Hugues ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 07:07:36 EDT From: Oldrancocas@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: Please, again, no politics on this list Mike to the rescue as always. That is as soon as someone takes the side he does not agree with. How about saying "stop" when the politics being tossed about here are what you think as well for a change. I've watched this pattern for years now. Warm regards, Gary ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 08:53:35 -0400 From: "Paul Russell" Subject: RE: MM: giving to charity Well said. I like the "make up your own mind" part. There's a multitude of organizations helping out with the Katrina effort. I want people to be aware of that, especially our MMers. And I'll have you know there are usually a few pagan organizations wanting to help out, but usually get turned down by authorities because they don't want to take the "ungodly" money. How absurd. Peace love and vegetable rights, Paul ************************************* * * You can stop masterbating vigorously, * by the way. * * -- Paul Russell (me!) * Long story, you don't want to know * ************************************* - ----Original Message Follows---- From: sharon G To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: giving to charity Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 23:34:06 -0400 I personally do not recommend the salvation army. They may do good works but if you WORK for them as a lay person, they ask you to sign a statement stating what you do with your TIME, your religious practice, your sexual orientation etc. They are not federally funded and can ask... oh yeah except for that little law suit here in NYC that they violated employees civil rights... I recommend that you search http://www.networkforgood.org/topics/animal_environ/hurricanes/ And make up your own mind... Sharon G ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 13:03:20 +0000 From: "Dennis Flynn" Subject: Re: MM: Please, again, no politics on this list Gary, Mike was directing this at me, too. In fact, I think it was a couple of my posts that didn't make it to the list. So you shouldn't take this as a personal affront to your position. I'm not sure even I know where Mike stands politically and it doesn't really matter. If it's verboten on the list, it's verboten. You and I can take our rants and yawns off-line. The funny part is, I'm the one that got his hand slapped for "preaching" when a couple of people decided to preach to us about what they think WE should be doing/not doing. Somehow, THAT political commentary made it through. And if people are so thin-skinned to drop off of a list because of legitimate responses to such posts, then that is THEIR problem. Politics aside, Patty Griffin is the best damned female singer-songwriter I have ever heard. Dennis Pennsauken, NJ >From: Oldrancocas@aol.com >To: mikec@smoe.org, mad-mission@smoe.org >Subject: Re: MM: Please, again, no politics on this list >Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 07:07:36 EDT > >Mike to the rescue as always. That is as soon as someone takes the side he >does not agree with. How about saying "stop" when the politics being >tossed >about here are what you think as well for a change. I've watched this >pattern >for years now. >Warm regards, >Gary ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 13:04:23 +0000 From: "Dennis Flynn" Subject: RE: MM: Re: Please, again, no politics on this list Yes, you SHOULD have. Dennis Pennsauken, NJ >From: "Don Henn" >To: "mad-mission" >Subject: MM: Re: Please, again, no politics on this list >Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 01:14:30 -0400 > >Sorry , Mike. I should have known better. > >Don ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:06:35 -0500 From: "McGuire, John" Subject: MM: Taking requests rant (sorry) First off, let me qualify this a bit-- I am the tour manager, webmaster, and all around "get 'r done" guy for a fairly well known acoustic duo of singer/songwriters, Lowen and Navarro. They have been playing together for almost 20 years, and in that span of time, have recorded 9 CDs and played almost 1500 shows. If you figure that each album has 10 songs, that's 90 songs right there.... Throw in a few favorite covers that have made an appearance at a show here and there, and you have over 100. About 2 years ago, we played a show, in TX I believe, and after 2 full sets, 2 looooong encores, and almost 3 hours of music... A guy walks up to Eric Lowen after the show and complains that they didn't play his favorite song or whatever!! There is simple math involved here-- an average show by any artist is going to be what? 25 songs, tops? With someone new on the scene, no problem- they might even be struggling to put together enough material for a full show. But once you have 3-4 CDs of material, there is going to be a few songs that never see the light of day. Or the light of the stage-- whatever... But there is something else involved here as well-- sometimes, performers just DON'T LIKE TO PLAY CERTAIN SONGS! Maybe the song defines a certain time in their life, or an event or whatever, and they don't want to revisit that... Or maybe, as my dearly departed friend Jim Ellison was so fond of doing, the song was about a girl, and she is no longer in the picture. Another musician friend of mine has a song that all his fans LOVE, and everyone loves to request it. But its long, slow, and quiet piano piece, and doesn't fit into a mostly 'rock' show, and the sad truth of it is this-- he starts to play it, the hardcore fans are all silently enraptured, but the other 75% of the crowd starts talking, louder and louder, until the he gets so fed up with it that he just quits playing. Sure, its immature and a bit moody.... But when people don't appreciate your gift, sometimes that happens. And last but not least.... Musicians are a finicky and moody lot!!! Maybe they need the safety and security of the setlist sometimes.... Eric Lowen has ALS, and sadly, there are some songs that he just isnt able to play on the guitar anymore without severely changing the tune, or worse-- totally flubbing it! Or maybe, just maybe, they don't want to take requests because...well.... Maybe they just don't like you... (it's a joke!!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:55:25 -0400 From: "Connell, Michael P (US SSA)" Subject: MM: No politics, slow MM list, pattygriffin.net etc etc > The funny part is, I'm the one that got his hand slapped for "preaching" > when a couple of people decided to preach to us about what they think WE > should be doing/not doing. Somehow, THAT political commentary made it > through. Actually, the ones that didn't get through were NOT due to any "political" filters installed (there are none such installed). They were innocent bystanders of a filter designed to keep user-administrative requests hitting the list (i.e. posts that should be sent to majordomo @ smoe rather than mad-mission @ smoe.). These filters are not perfect and the innocent ones typically get sent on the moment I see them after getting home and checking email. Plus, my "no political discussion" post was not directed at anyone at all in particular. I just saw what was going on, didn't notice who was posting, was extremely busy updating a website I was behind on and fired off a quick "please stop it". By the way, wow! Almost a month went by with zero posts on this list. A new record...probably hammered the old record. :-( Have the discussion boards at pg.net been slow too? Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 10:45:42 -0400 From: "Becca Jarry" Subject: MM: NPC Mark Erelli mp3 For those who like to sample new music, or just new to you music, give this a try. I just saw Mark at a very small and intimate venue, and he just blew me away. Made such an impression, I signed onto his email list. Glad I did, cause i got to hear this really great song. http://www.markerelli.com/MarkErelli_GodLovesEveryone.mp3 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 17:11:05 +0200 From: "hugues" Subject: Re: MM: Patty does what she wants to do > Again, I'm sure she knows this, but until this duet > tour came out, you would think she wasn't even listening to her fans.....and > I'm not so sure she was actually listening to her fans. I don't know well Patty's personality... From what I could judge from the DVD, she's still amazed to have fans. She doesn't seem to keep in touch with them. She has her own, complex personality. Her own world. She keeps it secret. She's shy. She's many things, she's like she is. We're touched by her art, right? Doesn't it belong to us to understand her better? Isn't it enough to love her as she is? How could we dare to complain about her refusal to do requests? Snotty she's not, but us! How I feel it anyway. :o) Hugues ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 15:19:49 +0000 From: jmphlbat@comcast.net Subject: Re: MM: No politics, slow MM list, pattygriffin.net etc etc Since the end of the tour, things have been alittle slow on the trading side and concert reviews but overall things have been quite busy. We have add a whole bunch of new stuff which has seen a dramatic increase in the number of hits we are getting. New threads on The Bands equipment Patty Griffin Art Flashback ( a look at reviews from past shows) Who am I ( started last week and getting 200 hits a day) Get your gig out (a new thread on how to make it in music today) and a few others. We also have just completed revamping the discography section and now show over 140 cd's that contain Patty's music The In Concert Section has also been redone and now you can move between a concert date, pictures from the show, reviews and discussion of the show all from one page We have also added 2 new moderators to our team. Very shortly the .com site will also see a new face and we are now working on the the official Patty Griffin myspace site. So are things slow at www.pattygriffin.net Not at all Hope all is well Mike Murph - -------------- Original message -------------- > > The funny part is, I'm the one that got his hand slapped for > "preaching" > > when a couple of people decided to preach to us about what they think > WE > > should be doing/not doing. Somehow, THAT political commentary made it > > through. > > Actually, the ones that didn't get through were NOT due to any > "political" filters installed (there are none such installed). They were > innocent bystanders of a filter designed to keep user-administrative > requests hitting the list (i.e. posts that should be sent to majordomo @ > smoe rather than mad-mission @ smoe.). These filters are not perfect and > the innocent ones typically get sent on the moment I see them after > getting home and checking email. > > Plus, my "no political discussion" post was not directed at anyone at > all in particular. I just saw what was going on, didn't notice who was > posting, was extremely busy updating a website I was behind on and fired > off a quick "please stop it". > > By the way, wow! Almost a month went by with zero posts on this list. A > new record...probably hammered the old record. :-( > > Have the discussion boards at pg.net been slow too? > > Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 10:32:47 -0400 From: "Paul Russell" Subject: RE: MM: Patty does what she wants to do Hugues, First of all, I want to say how cool it is that this MM list is so International. Patty Griffin is truly amazing, and I'm glad her energy is spreading. My job requires me to email people all over the world, and I'm always amazed at the proficiency of English in foreign countries. I personally know a bit of German, but certainly not enough to write many thoughts out like many MMers from other countries can do on this list. Now on to me and my comments. I'm not saying that she should be a human jukebox. I've got CDs, I don't need to throw quarters up on stage and flip through which song I want to hear. hmmm, maybe a human Beatbox, but she would need to take some lessons from the Fat Boys before trying her hand (or actually it would be mouth) at beatboxing. I mean, here's something. Patty sits down and says "hmmm, why don't I play two requests at each show?" Or even "why don't I play two songs not on my setlist, but make the audience think that they requested it and I played their request?" Or have two songs not on the playlist to possibly play; then play it if it's requested, and don't play it if it's not requested. Or at least tell Bruce that she'll think about playing the request when she's meeting him at the pre-show. I have a few friends that are musicians. And they would give their right arms to play every request, and they would give their left arms to be left alone by the corrupt and greedy recording industry. One friend in particular has burned many bridges purposefully so he doesn't get bothered by any sort of record deals with the recording industry. Most of his songs he's lived himself. He has a huge fan base across the US, and he'll do requests. Oh, and he likes to drink Guinness. God he's awesome! Unless Patty's name is David Bowie with over 3 billion songs to his name, then I don't understand exactly why she doesn't take requests (again I'm talking one or two, not the whole show). I can completely understand why she won't sing certain songs anymore. She may feel she can't sing some songs the way she would want to, or one song was a part of her life that's over, etc. But with only a handful of albums under her belt, she's being a bit snotty saying "I don't do requests." I also want to make something clear. I don't usually request songs from any artist...by choice. I don't think that shouting out requests should be part of a show. However, what is one or two requests? Even DJs will play one request an hour and they get like hundreds of screaming teenagers calling in. Most of the time it's the Top 40 radio stations and the requests will be played anyway within an hour, but they usually will pull one or two songs from an archive during a shift if they feel like it. I have requested songs before at shows, but not usually. Like one of my friends has a song called "Punk Rocker in an Afterschool Special Show"...I'll request this song because it's one of my favorites and he doesn't have it recorded on any of his CDs. If he doesn't play it and plays someone else's request instead, I don't think he's a jerk. He's taking requests (I think he usually does about 5 or 6 but that's him). He doesn't stand up to the microphone and say "I don't do requests." I was disappointed that Blondie didn't do "Atomic" when I saw them, but then again I didn't stand up in the stadium shouting it out, so big deal. Oh man, does Deb STILL look hot!! Speaking of hot, what gives with this Armstrong character scoring in on MY Girl??? Sheryl Crow likes ME! Oh wait, I'm sorry Dave. I took Laetitia Casta, you have Sheryl. What's with Lance getting engaged to your girl?? I'm afraid I lost my thought. Oh, but ... crap. What was I saying? Oh, but I've also been to soulful christian gatherings and even they will play requests. I'm not sure about those hardcore Christian revival thingies because all that seems to be pre-planned for your hypnosis and people in wheelchairs walking and people fainting. But for normal outings a request or two is not unheard of. Maybe Patty does not like her older material. Well, she should say that to her fans, instead of saying "I've told you guys before, I don't play requests." If she can't play something only ten years old, then she needs to have a good reason. If her soul isn't there for it anymore, then she needs to let us know that. David Bowie had 20+ years of songs under his belt before he told everyone he would no longer play the old songs that older fans wanted to hear. There's only so much you can keep playing, but I would expect Patty's threshold to be a bit bigger than it seems to be. I like Patty Griffin solo and Patty Griffin with band. I don't mind that she gets drowned out and that the music is loud. But I'm just observing that many on this group have pointed out they prefer to hear her voice more, or more solo stuff. Again, I'm sure she knows this, but until this duet tour came out, you would think she wasn't even listening to her fans.....and I'm not so sure she was actually listening to her fans. She might have been talking with one of her musical counterparts in conversation, and in passing they mention "hey Patty, you should do a solo tour again, or a duet tour perhaps. I want you to sing backup on my next album, and that would be good practice for you before I start recording in the studio." Well, that's it from me right now. Back to your regularly scheduled programs...without me. peace love and vegetable rights, Paul ************************************* * * You can stop masterbating vigorously, * by the way. * * -- Paul Russell (me!) * Long story, you don't want to know * ************************************* - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "hugues" To: Subject: MM: Patty does what she wants to do Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:18:49 +0200 > What the heck gives with Patty anyway? She rudely doesn't take requests. > And she plays with a band that usually plays "too loud" for a lot on this > list. And she knows about this, and she and the band don't seem to care. > > Thank goodness she went on that duet tour a while ago or she would have been > toward the top of my list of "artists who do not care about their fans" > list. > > For someone as talented and wonderful singer as she is, she doesn't seem to > like her fans very much, or at least us hardcore fans here on the list. And > it's surprising how many don't even think twice about it. I hear all the > time "well it was kind of loud" or "well they were drowning out Patty again" > or "of course she had to tell these two dumb fans that she doesn't do > requests." I'm quite amazed to read this. Not about how Patty acts, but how "fans" react. I mean, an artist doesn't have to do requests. You don't even understand why? Just listen to what she has to offer. She probably sings what she feels about to sing. She's not an answering machine. Patty sings with soul. Other artists can do requests with soul? Fine. Apparently Patty can't. I don't see why she would have to deal with some modern fanship rules or habits. She may not see the musical world that way. And it may be why she's like she is. If she was different than she actually is, she may not record the songs she does. She couldn't be that special. Ever thought about that? ;o) Hugues ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V9 #162 *********************************