From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V8 #157 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.pattygriffin.net/PattyInConcertDB.php * OR * go to http://www.atorecords.com * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V8 #___ gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. * Also, PLEASE do not quote an entire digest when you reply to the * list. Edit out anything you are not referring to. mad-mission-digest Thursday, June 17 2004 Volume 08 : Number 157 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: Berger / Tucson 6-15-04 ["Donald Henn" ] MM: the 2 second gap rule [John Bernhard ] RE: MM: the 2 second gap rule ["Bonnie Lombard" ] MM: DAO vs TAO [John Bernhard ] MM: my bad [John Bernhard ] MM: RE: my bad ["Pipkin, Heather D." ] MM: RE: RE: my bad ["Pipkin, Heather D." ] MM: birchmere, birchmere, birchmere [sandra campagna ] MM: birchmere closed [sandra campagna ] MM: Birchmere CDs ["McGuire, John" ] RE: MM: Birchmere CDs ["Roy Larsen" ] MM: Patty's KCRW show ... [Dierk Schlie ] RE: MM: Birchmere CDs ["Gillian Reynolds" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 03:23:28 -0400 From: "Donald Henn" Subject: MM: Berger / Tucson 6-15-04 Stricken with the blahs this day , to the point that the concert barely lifted them. Also had two close calls in Santa Fe & Tucson. Both due to my own inattention. Have to blame all this on Patty. Those young girls always wear me down : ) The one in Tucson was as I was pulling out of the Berger in sight of Patty's bus. Headed for what I thought was the curb lane , but realized that it was the divider at the last second. Swerved around it into the path of an oncoming car. I saw it coming , & didn't know if they time to stop , but did know they had two lanes open to move around me. For some reason - drama ? - they slammed on the brakes , & screeched to a halt. A moment in time. Move on. Set list : Standing Love Throw a Line Chief Rain Blue Sky Icicles Kite song / piano / Doug Mother of God / piano / Doug Flaming Red / Doug Be Careful / solo Cold as it Gets / solo Long Ride Home / Michael L. Top of the World Useless Desires Go Now Perfect White Girls Truth # 2 Mil Besos When it Don't Come Easy Encore Let Him Fly / Doug Mary / w/ Eliza The smaller crowd was more enthusiastic than the Lensic one , & when they gave Patty a 2nd wave of applause after Rain , I figured all was well. Don't recall if I've mentioned the back-up vocals yet , but they've been very good thru the tour. I really like when ( like tonight ) there's a real deepness to the Standing vocals. doesn't happen every night , & I always wonder who's voice it is that's getting down there. Also like the low hum they provide on Don't Come Easy. Eliza Mentioned the " killer band " twice in 2 days , so I paid more attention to the instrumentation , & had to agree. Very tight when called for , but also very flowing. The newer songs especially , b/c I don't have previous versions to compare with. Still like older versions of Blue Sky & Mary. Lately Patty has been letting the audience know that the solos after the piano songs are being done on the spur of the moment , & they often call out requests. Patty was tickled when someone called out Sweet Loretta. She repeated it , & said " you have the wroong girl ! " . She went into Flaming Red , & seemed to thoroughly enjoy it. That bluesy opening was a master stroke on the level of MOG's new ending. Be Careful seemed a little uneven , But CAIG was riveting. No problem with being loose enough on Go now this night , but surprisingly LHF didn't reach the level of the Santa Fe version. Patty introed Eliza for Mary , saying that to show what kind of a person she ( Patty ) was , she didn't rehearse Mary with Eliza , but that they were buddies , & she was sure Eliza would figure it out. Don't know what Eliza figured out , but the harmony was uneven & didn't help the song. Eliza delivered her 3rd & last short set again , as she was done for the tour. Would still like to know why her sets were so short this time. She did a song called Separated the 1st night that was as good as anything I've heard from her , but didn't repeat it in the next two sets. Again , she doesn't come across nearly as well on CD as the live show. I've thought that it just might be her on stage persona that makes it all seem better , but I swear that the voice just isn't the same on the CDS. Maybe she's more inhibited in studio ? Wish I could recall the line from Separated , but I'll have to save it for another day. Ain't nothin' left at all In the end of being proud Patty Griffin " Long Ride Home " Don ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:36:08 -0400 From: John Bernhard Subject: MM: the 2 second gap rule As the taper for the Boston show, it pains me to hear glitched cds are now being distributed. Sloppy sloppy sloppy.....and so avoidable. Never record cds DAO. Its that simple. The gaps are also prominent on mp3 copies, another serious no-no. Please don't distribute these flawed recordings. Send them back up stream until you find the source of the problem and get a correct copy. I understand the majority of listers are not audiophiles, but this is really cd burning 101 type stuff. If I wanted 2 second gaps in my recording , I would have put them there myself. John B ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:40:12 -0400 From: "Bonnie Lombard" Subject: RE: MM: the 2 second gap rule John: you are dealing with people who have no idea what DAO means....and I know because I'm one of them. From: John Bernhard To: " " Subject: MM: the 2 second gap rule Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:36:08 -0400 As the taper for the Boston show, it pains me to hear glitched cds are now being distributed. Sloppy sloppy sloppy.....and so avoidable. Never record cds DAO. Its that simple. The gaps are also prominent on mp3 copies, another serious no-no. Please don't distribute these flawed recordings. Send them back up stream until you find the source of the problem and get a correct copy. I understand the majority of listers are not audiophiles, but this is really cd burning 101 type stuff. If I wanted 2 second gaps in my recording , I would have put them there myself. John B ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:43:47 -0400 From: John Bernhard Subject: MM: DAO vs TAO Ok....a little info on this issue First off I am not super savvy with computers and only had a stand alone burner audio style for the last three years but recently got a computer burner Most people have the computer burners When they get set up initially ( or everytime you use them ) you have an option to select recording mode DAO is disc at once and this copies the cds as is TAO is track at once and this inserts a gap ( gaps can be adjusted from .05 to 2.5 secs or so ) There is no reason to ever burn a music cd in TAO The resulting glitched copies with gaps are almost impossible to fix ( remove gaps ) and pollute the trading pool MP3's also by nature insert gaps ( at least I believe this true ) MP3's are a crappy data compressed inferior copy of the original and also should be avoided like the plague ( imho ) hope this helps your operating manual should cover this as well and help you navigate the issue with your particular burner John ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:46:12 -0400 From: John Bernhard Subject: MM: my bad I wrote earlier Never record cds DAO. Its that simple. I am clearly not checking my email before sending Should read never record TAO my humble apologies John B ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:02:06 -0700 From: "Pipkin, Heather D." Subject: MM: RE: my bad John...that still doesn't help me. :) What is TAO? Thanks, Heather ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:10:09 -0700 From: "Pipkin, Heather D." Subject: MM: RE: RE: my bad Oops, we must have been typing at the same time, thanks for the clarification!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:28:28 -0700 (PDT) From: sandra campagna Subject: MM: birchmere, birchmere, birchmere dear all, i have one more copy of birchmere to send out to whoever would like it. please email me with your address and it's yours!!! sandra Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:25:15 -0700 (PDT) From: sandra campagna Subject: MM: birchmere closed i'm copying for a couple more than planned...so this one is closed. it should resurface somewhere. thanks! Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:03:19 -0500 From: "McGuire, John" Subject: MM: Birchmere CDs First off, let me state that I am not exactly a music-trading snob or anything. I don't specify that everyone has to send me Taiyo-Yuden CDs or that everything has to include source info and coverart and whatever. But at the same time, I also attend about 75 shows and festivals each year, and I tape a good bunch of those that I attend. I also have a collection of live music shows on CD and DAT numbering into the hundreds, maybe even over a thousand (I am SOOOO far behind on updating my lists!!!) I received a copy of the recent Birchmere show yesterday (Thanks to the kind soul who sent it, and this same kind soul is held blameless, or at least mostly blameless, and as such, shall be nameless). I truly do appreciate whomever it is that originally taped the show and decided to try to share it with the rest of us. However... << Enter Rant Mode >> Discs were recorded Track at Once (TAO), sneaking 2 second gaps between the track splits. Maybe some of you folks like your live music shows with those cuts, but don't count me and/or any of my trading friends in on that. This could have happened anywhere along the line, when someone copies the discs without paying attention or perhaps knowing the correct way to do it. There are plenty of tutorials out there- and each CD burning software package is different. One of the best solutions is EAC- Exact Audio Copy, which is designed expressly for copying music CDs. And its Free! OK, so I could probably overlook the TAO problem, and I could take some time and fix it before I offer these CDs back to this list, or to any other list or friends of mine. But the CDs arent even listenable! Being an audience recording, the crowd noise is WAAAYYY loud, and the music (which is what we want to hear) is waaayy to low/soft. Either the person who recorded it didn't set the rec levels right, or the person who transferred this to CD in the first place should have normalized the levels before cutting it to CDs. Or both. Please please please don't flame me or bust my chops-- Id rather have a poor quality show than no show at all. But Im guessing there are probably 30-40 or so folks that have this show either in their hands or in the mail on the way. But for the hour or 2 it would have taken to make this a good show to trade... Now we have 40 bad copies out there!!!!! And I cant believe that nobody has mentioned this before! Perhaps this is what kind of sound quality you all are used to here.... And that's kinda sad.... Now just to soothe everyone, I will attempt to clean up my copy sometime in the next few days, and I will send out 10 copies to whoever already has this show and is supposed to be making more copies for people! Just please don't send out the copies you have!! << End Rant Mode >> And if somone REALLY has their panties in a bunch over the length or tone of my post, I will hook them up with a recent Ellis Paul show that I taped, transferred, and mastered. I just picked Ellis Paul 'just because', and because I have a copy of the CDs sitting here on my desk! Sorry if this steps on anyone's toes or anything.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 13:35:46 -0700 From: "Roy Larsen" Subject: RE: MM: Birchmere CDs John, I certainly understand, and support, the notion that one should do a bit-for-bit copy of any CD they receive and pass on, but I'm not sure I understand the reset of your thoughts. I don't tape shows, so I always thought that some are simply good and some are simply not as good from an audio quality point of view. Hence, the grading one sees on large trading boards. You said you'd rather have this Birchmere show than no show at all, but you seem to be saying that if you don't know how to tape a show or how to post-process it, don't bother putting it out to trade. I'm not trying to bust your chops. Really. I'm just trying to understand what irritated you about the person who originally recorded and shared this show with us. I too noted that the sound quality was disappointing, but wouldn't dream of fooling with it and passing it on in fear of violating the bit-for-bit copy rule and injecting my audio preferences.... Roy - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "McGuire, John" To: Subject: MM: Birchmere CDs Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:03:19 -0500 First off, let me state that I am not exactly a music-trading snob or anything. I don't specify that everyone has to send me Taiyo-Yuden CDs or that everything has to include source info and coverart and whatever. But at the same time, I also attend about 75 shows and festivals each year, and I tape a good bunch of those that I attend. I also have a collection of live music shows on CD and DAT numbering into the hundreds, maybe even over a thousand (I am SOOOO far behind on updating my lists!!!) I received a copy of the recent Birchmere show yesterday (Thanks to the kind soul who sent it, and this same kind soul is held blameless, or at least mostly blameless, and as such, shall be nameless). I truly do appreciate whomever it is that originally taped the show and decided to try to share it with the rest of us. However... << Enter Rant Mode >> Discs were recorded Track at Once (TAO), sneaking 2 second gaps between the track splits. Maybe some of you folks like your live music shows with those cuts, but don't count me and/or any of my trading friends in on that. This could have happened anywhere along the line, when someone copies the discs without paying attention or perhaps knowing the correct way to do it. There are plenty of tutorials out there- and each CD burning software package is different. One of the best solutions is EAC- Exact Audio Copy, which is designed expressly for copying music CDs. And its Free! OK, so I could probably overlook the TAO problem, and I could take some time and fix it before I offer these CDs back to this list, or to any other list or friends of mine. But the CDs arent even listenable! Being an audience recording, the crowd noise is WAAAYYY loud, and the music (which is what we want to hear) is waaayy to low/soft. Either the person who recorded it didn't set the rec levels right, or the person who transferred this to CD in the first place should have normalized the levels before cutting it to CDs. Or both. Please please please don't flame me or bust my chops-- Id rather have a poor quality show than no show at all. But Im guessing there are probably 30-40 or so folks that have this show either in their hands or in the mail on the way. But for the hour or 2 it would have taken to make this a good show to trade... Now we have 40 bad copies out there!!!!! And I cant believe that nobody has mentioned this before! Perhaps this is what kind of sound quality you all are used to here.... And that's kinda sad.... Now just to soothe everyone, I will attempt to clean up my copy sometime in the next few days, and I will send out 10 copies to whoever already has this show and is supposed to be making more copies for people! Just please don't send out the copies you have!! << End Rant Mode >> And if somone REALLY has their panties in a bunch over the length or tone of my post, I will hook them up with a recent Ellis Paul show that I taped, transferred, and mastered. I just picked Ellis Paul 'just because', and because I have a copy of the CDs sitting here on my desk! Sorry if this steps on anyone's toes or anything.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 23:16:33 +0200 From: Dierk Schlie Subject: MM: Patty's KCRW show ... Wow, that was a fine and atmospheric gig today ... you can download the KCRW stream for a short time from http://s89905130.onlinehome.us/public/patty/ (right-click and save ... but take care, it's almost 38 MBytes big ...) Enjoy it and play it loud :-) dierk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:18:31 -0500 From: "Gillian Reynolds" Subject: RE: MM: Birchmere CDs John, There are a wide variety of sound quality on the Patty boots floating around in the world. I definitely wouldn't say that we are 'used to' this type of sound quality. I, for one, simply appreciate when those boots surface that are of a high quality, and when they aren't quite as good, I am still glad to have a record of that particular performance. Not everyone has the knowledge and skills to fine-tune their recordings, or even set the audio levels correctly during recording. I know that if I bought a recorder and attempted to tape a show, I would just hit record and hope for the best. I would just like to say to the person that recorded Birchmere (I think I know who you are): thank you for putting out the effort to record the show and pass it along to other fans. I personally appreciate it and hope that you don't in any way start to feel bad about yourself or the recording because of John's post. Gillian - ---------- ~Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! ~~Live the life you've imagined. - -Thoreau >From: "McGuire, John" >To: >Subject: MM: Birchmere CDs >Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:03:19 -0500 > >First off, let me state that I am not exactly a music-trading snob or >anything. I don't specify that everyone has to send me Taiyo-Yuden CDs >or that everything has to include source info and coverart and whatever. >But at the same time, I also attend about 75 shows and festivals each >year, and I tape a good bunch of those that I attend. I also have a >collection of live music shows on CD and DAT numbering into the >hundreds, maybe even over a thousand (I am SOOOO far behind on updating >my lists!!!) > >I received a copy of the recent Birchmere show yesterday (Thanks to the >kind soul who sent it, and this same kind soul is held blameless, or at >least mostly blameless, and as such, shall be nameless). I truly do >appreciate whomever it is that originally taped the show and decided to >try to share it with the rest of us. However... > ><< Enter Rant Mode >> > >Discs were recorded Track at Once (TAO), sneaking 2 second gaps between >the track splits. Maybe some of you folks like your live music shows >with those cuts, but don't count me and/or any of my trading friends in >on that. This could have happened anywhere along the line, when someone >copies the discs without paying attention or perhaps knowing the correct >way to do it. There are plenty of tutorials out there- and each CD >burning software package is different. One of the best solutions is EAC- >Exact Audio Copy, which is designed expressly for copying music CDs. And >its Free! > >OK, so I could probably overlook the TAO problem, and I could take some >time and fix it before I offer these CDs back to this list, or to any >other list or friends of mine. But the CDs arent even listenable! Being >an audience recording, the crowd noise is WAAAYYY loud, and the music >(which is what we want to hear) is waaayy to low/soft. Either the person >who recorded it didn't set the rec levels right, or the person who >transferred this to CD in the first place should have normalized the >levels before cutting it to CDs. Or both. > >Please please please don't flame me or bust my chops-- Id rather have a >poor quality show than no show at all. But Im guessing there are >probably 30-40 or so folks that have this show either in their hands or >in the mail on the way. But for the hour or 2 it would have taken to >make this a good show to trade... Now we have 40 bad copies out >there!!!!! >And I cant believe that nobody has mentioned this before! Perhaps this >is what kind of sound quality you all are used to here.... And that's >kinda sad.... > >Now just to soothe everyone, I will attempt to clean up my copy sometime >in the next few days, and I will send out 10 copies to whoever already >has this show and is supposed to be making more copies for people! Just >please don't send out the copies you have!! > ><< End Rant Mode >> > >And if somone REALLY has their panties in a bunch over the length or >tone of my post, I will hook them up with a recent Ellis Paul show that >I taped, transferred, and mastered. I just picked Ellis Paul 'just >because', and because I have a copy of the CDs sitting here on my desk! > >Sorry if this steps on anyone's toes or anything.... _________________________________________________________________ Getting married? 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