From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V8 #60 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.pattygriffin.net/PattyInConcertDB.php * OR * go to http://www.atorecords.com * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V8 #___ gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. * Also, PLEASE do not quote an entire digest when you reply to the * list. Edit out anything you are not referring to. mad-mission-digest Tuesday, March 16 2004 Volume 08 : Number 060 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: FW: American artists generally play in America ["Matthew Smith" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:00:58 -0000 From: "Matthew Smith" Subject: MM: FW: American artists generally play in America If an artist only toured overseas when they had sold enough albums then hardly anyone would ever play outside their own country. Unless you are the latest accountant designed teenybopper act then you have to tour to build up a fanbase, so they go out and buy your albums. It's this, "the rest of the world is much less important" attititude that really annoys me. Do you get a comedy series called "The League of Gentlemen" over there? You would fit right into Royston Vasey. EM - -----Original Message----- Behalf Of Scott Antall I am always surprised by the surprise from some non-North American fans that artists like Patty play in North American more often than elsewhere. If I were a fan of a German or Australian act, I would expect to see that artist less often than in the native country or continent (if ever!!) If Patty were big enough to go anywhere in the world, I am sure she would. She is working her hardest to build a career in her home country first. So, just calm down and get over it! Scott Antall http://www.scottantall.com/ scott@scottantall.com 412-414-5121 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:25:03 +0000 From: jmphlbat@comcast.net Subject: MM: Last Call for Drive and Happy Birthday First a big Happy Birthday to Patty. Today is her 40th Birthday. Best Wishes to her. And since it is her Birthday, then today is the last day of the Birthday Drive. There is still time to make your donation. Just go to www.vvaf.org and click on the Patty button. Some of the gifts are Tickets and a meet and greet with Patty Advanced copy of "Impossible Dream" Advanced Copy of "Love Throws a Line" A pg.net mailbox 100's of other great prizes and gifts. thanks Murph ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:41:54 -0600 From: "Willms, Gregory" Subject: MM: RE: FW: American artists generally play in America The reason why most smaller artists don't tour across oceans is simple... money. People like the Rolling Stones and Pearl Jam and U2 have tons of fans all over the world; they can pack stadiums anywhere they go. The expense of a world tour can be justified. Someone like Patty, however, will typically have more localized fans... especially when that person's music has a culturally traditional sound. Patty's music is very rootsy/American/western (Mil Besos aside) and I'm not surprised that she doesn't have a huge fan base outside of N. America. It's simply too expensive to arrange a world (or even European) tour for her when she's only playing small clubs and would most likely not even sell them out. Her fan base just isn't dense enough outside of N. America. At the risk of sounding ethnocentric, a successful tour in the U.S. is the pinnacle for most artists/bands. That's the top of the ladder. You'll never hear anyone say, "I've conquered the U.S., now if I can only conquer Finland..." You DO hear of people having local success and then wanting to come here, however. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not, but the U.S. is the center of pop culture and there's a lot of money to be made here... which is why the focus is always here. Very rarely does an American artist fail here and succeed overseas. David Hasselhoff comes to mind, but I'm not even going to get started on that. The point is that the almighty dollar is running the show, not you or I or Patty. I'm sure she'd love to play every country in the world. FYI - I have nothing at all against any other countries or their artists. I've been in the same position you're in with artists/bands many times. I've been trying to see Tom McRae over here for years and I know that he never tours here because I'm probably his sole fan stateside. Jamiroquai is another one that refused to come here until about 6 years after they were HUGE in the U.K. And that comment about the rest of the world being less important is completely loaded and goes beyond the scope of Patty's tour schedule. It's also very pretentious. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org [mailto:owner-mad-mission@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Smith Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:01 AM To: Mad-Mission Subject: MM: FW: American artists generally play in America If an artist only toured overseas when they had sold enough albums then hardly anyone would ever play outside their own country. Unless you are the latest accountant designed teenybopper act then you have to tour to build up a fanbase, so they go out and buy your albums. It's this, "the rest of the world is much less important" attititude that really annoys me. Do you get a comedy series called "The League of Gentlemen" over there? You would fit right into Royston Vasey. EM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:25:10 -0000 From: "Matthew Smith" Subject: MM: FW: FW: American artists generally play in America Gregory Your attitude has proved my point for me, thankyou. You seem to think that your country IS the world and that everywhere else is minor and secondary to success there. A big fuss is made of the oscars, about how many people watch it, when it's audience is in fact dwarfed by those who watch the Bollywood equivalent, worldwide (email me if you want an explanation of Bollywood) You are not the centre of the world. EM - -----Original Message----- From: Willms, Gregory [mailto:Greg.Willms@qwest.com] At the risk of sounding ethnocentric, a successful tour in the U.S. is the pinnacle for most artists/bands. That's the top of the ladder. You'll never hear anyone say, "I've conquered the U.S., now if I can only conquer Finland..." You DO hear of people having local success and then wanting to come here, however. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not, but the U.S. is the center of pop culture and there's a lot of money to be made here... which is why the focus is always here. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:06:58 -0600 From: "Willms, Gregory" Subject: MM: RE: FW: FW: American artists generally play in America Like I said, I don't believe we're the center of the world and that everything is less important, I'm simply stating facts. People come here to become rich and famous, end of story. Who gives a sh*t about the Oscars or Bollywood? What bearing does that have on overseas touring? I was simply stating that there isn't enough money to be made by smaller artists overseas to justify the expense of a tour there. And per the examples I mentioned, it goes both ways. I'm not sure what you're even arguing any more. Maybe Patty won't tour in Europe because she doesn't want to be stereotyped and insulted by someone who knows no more about Americans than what he/she sees in the movies and on TV. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org [mailto:owner-mad-mission@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Smith Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:25 PM To: Mad-Mission Subject: MM: FW: FW: American artists generally play in America Gregory Your attitude has proved my point for me, thankyou. You seem to think that your country IS the world and that everywhere else is minor and secondary to success there. A big fuss is made of the oscars, about how many people watch it, when it's audience is in fact dwarfed by those who watch the Bollywood equivalent, worldwide (email me if you want an explanation of Bollywood) You are not the centre of the world. EM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:23:18 -0500 From: "Connell, Michael P" Subject: MM: RE: FW: American artists generally play in America - -----Original Message----- > Behalf Of Scott Antall > I am always surprised by the surprise from some non-North American fans that > artists like Patty play in North American more often than elsewhere. If I > were a fan of a German or Australian act, I would expect to see that artist > less often than in the native country or continent (if ever!!) I can't help but recall that on another smoe.org-list I run that someone from Australia lamented that the lists' topic artist "hardly ever comes to Australia and when she does, plays few gigs". I had no choice but to point out that on all three of her previous album tours she not only hit Australia, but that on her most previous tour, which had finished a few months before, she had 13 Australia shows, a half-handful of shows in "nearby" New Zealand and a grand total of 18 shows in the USA and Canada. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:27:39 -0000 From: "Matthew Smith" Subject: MM: RE: FW: FW: American artists generally play in America Dont make presumptions about my experiences of Americans. I don't base my argument on how american come across in movies or on tv, it is based on recent personal experience, thankyou very much. Oscars versus Bollywood has a bearing on your attitude, and therefore your reason for her lack of overseas touring. You do come across as though your country is only one worth touring. "a successful tour in the U.S. is the pinnacle for most artists/bands" How come Mary Gauthier manages it? She has much smaller profile both sides of the Atlantic, and I've seen her twice in London. EM - -----Original Message----- From: Willms, Gregory [mailto:Greg.Willms@qwest.com] Sent: 16 March 2004 18:07 To: Matthew Smith; Mad-Mission Subject: RE: FW: FW: American artists generally play in America Like I said, I don't believe we're the center of the world and that everything is less important, I'm simply stating facts. People come here to become rich and famous, end of story. Who gives a sh*t about the Oscars or Bollywood? What bearing does that have on overseas touring? I was simply stating that there isn't enough money to be made by smaller artists overseas to justify the expense of a tour there. And per the examples I mentioned, it goes both ways. I'm not sure what you're even arguing any more. Maybe Patty won't tour in Europe because she doesn't want to be stereotyped and insulted by someone who knows no more about Americans than what he/she sees in the movies and on TV. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org [mailto:owner-mad-mission@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Smith Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:25 PM To: Mad-Mission Subject: MM: FW: FW: American artists generally play in America Gregory Your attitude has proved my point for me, thankyou. You seem to think that your country IS the world and that everywhere else is minor and secondary to success there. A big fuss is made of the oscars, about how many people watch it, when it's audience is in fact dwarfed by those who watch the Bollywood equivalent, worldwide (email me if you want an explanation of Bollywood) You are not the centre of the world. EM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:30:59 -0500 From: "Sarah =^..^=" Subject: RE: MM: RE: FW: American artists generally play in America Another example is Radiohead. Sure, they tour here now but there was a time you could only see them in Europe. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You're gonna dance to jah music, dance, We're gonna dance to jah music, dance, Forget your troubles and dance, Forget your sorrows and dance, Forget your sickness and dance, Forget your weakness and dance. . ." -- Bob Marley >From: "Willms, Gregory" >> >FYI - I have nothing at all against any other countries or their >artists. I've been in the same position you're in with artists/bands >many times. I've been trying to see Tom McRae over here for years and I >know that he never tours here because I'm probably his sole fan >stateside. Jamiroquai is another one that refused to come here until >about 6 years after they were HUGE in the U.K. And that comment about >the rest of the world being less important is completely loaded and goes >beyond the scope of Patty's tour schedule. It's also very pretentious. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:51:00 +0100 From: "hugues" Subject: MM: Re: FW: FW: American artists generally play in America > I'm not sure if this is a good > thing or not, but the U.S. is the center of pop culture to me, the US isn't the center of pop culture, and it is a good thing :o) Hugues ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:55:33 -0600 From: "Willms, Gregory" Subject: MM: RE: Re: FW: FW: American artists generally play in America "to me, the US isn't the center of pop culture" What is? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:01:44 +0100 From: "hugues" Subject: MM: Re: RE: FW: FW: American artists generally play in America > People come > here to become rich and famous, end of story. *some* people. I know a great artist who's willing to live in Europe, as a matter of example, and she doesn't give a shit of making money - end of story. > Maybe Patty won't tour > in Europe because she doesn't want to be stereotyped and insulted by > someone who knows no more about Americans than what he/she sees in the > movies and on TV. Patty's certainly too humble to ever feel insulted by ignorant Europeans... Hugues ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:05:19 +0100 From: "hugues" Subject: MM: Re: RE: FW: FW: American artists generally play in America > How come Mary Gauthier manages it? She has much smaller profile both sides > of the Atlantic, and I've seen her twice in London. and she's GREAT! :o) Hugues ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:08:25 +0100 From: "hugues" Subject: MM: Re: Re: FW: FW: American artists generally play in America "to me, the US isn't the center of pop culture" What is? none, of course - why do you want to state a center of pop culture - did you ever hear of the word "pluricultural" (that word exists in Europe :o) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:13:37 -0600 From: "Willms, Gregory" Subject: MM: RE: Re: RE: FW: FW: American artists generally play in America >*some* people. I know a great artist who's willing to live in Europe, as a >matter of example, and she doesn't give a shit of making money - end of >story. Of course, *some* people. There are plenty of artists who don't care about money or fame, but it's likely that those artists don't have a group of suits behind them who DO care. >...ignorant Europeans... Your word, not mine. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:05:44 -0500 From: "Jim Murphy" Subject: MM: Patty's Fans Say Happy Birthday in a Big Way All of us at "Time Does the Talking" and at the VVAF would like to say thank you to everyone who took the time to make a donation to the VVAF's "Campaign for a Landmine Free World" and also to those who placed bids in the guitar auction. The 2nd, Patty Griffin Birthday Fund Drive has ended. And while it will be a few days until we get all the money in for the guitars, we are proud to announce that the Birthday Fund Drive raised $7001.00 that's right $7001.00 Because of the generosity of Patty's record company, ATO and her Manager, at Vector Management, everyone who made a donation will receive a thank you gift. The Top 10 gift winners will be announced as soon as we get permission to post their names. Again, thank you to everyone. Happy Birthday Patty Holly, Jen and Murph ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:26:51 -0500 From: "Jim Murphy" Subject: MM: Guitar Auction I have been contacted by one of the under bidders in the guitar auction who told me that someone is emailing bidders and saying that the winning bidder cannot pay for their guitar and he is holding the guitar and offering the guitars for resale. Please be advised that we have received payment for all of the guitars, but 3. The 3 who have not paid had made arrangements with me at the end of the auction. No one has the guitars but me. Do not send any money to anyone asking for it in my name or for any other reason. Again, all of the guitars have been paid for. All of the books have been paid for. If you need any information about this, only speak to me, no one else, as no one else was associated with the guitar auction. I have no partners or anyone else helping me with this project. Thank you Jim Murphy (Murph) www.pattygriffin.net ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V8 #60 ********************************