From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V8 #36 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.pattygriffin.net/PattyInConcertDB.php * OR * go to http://www.atorecords.com * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V8 #___ gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. * Also, PLEASE do not quote an entire digest when you reply to the * list. Edit out anything you are not referring to. mad-mission-digest Thursday, February 26 2004 Volume 08 : Number 036 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: Re: Politics and Art ["Scott Zimmerman" ] RE: MM: Politics and Art ["Dave Doody" ] Re: MM: Politics and Art [Oldrancocas@aol.com] RE: MM: Politics and Art ["April Fritz" ] Re: MM: Politics and Art [Oldrancocas@aol.com] Re: MM: As Cold As It Gets ["Lisa Zwick" ] Re: MM: Politics and Art [FlamingRed74@aol.com] Re: MM: Politics and Art [FlamingRed74@aol.com] RE: MM: Politics and Art ["Roy Larsen" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:39:07 -0600 From: "Scott Zimmerman" Subject: MM: Re: Politics and Art Thanks April! Much respect! I think Patty, even in a song or album reviewed as politicised, will still, as always, aim her sights on intriguing and arousing awareness of human conditions and situations without a lot of the political polarity B.S. It looks as if the political issues will be debated, healthily I'm sure, since the lyrics to "As Cold As It Gets" have been interpreted in at least two directions so far! I can't wait to hear all of the new album, with no affiliation except the "Lovers of Patty Griffin Music" club. hehe :) ~Scott Original Message ----- From: "April Fritz" To: Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 7:51 PM Subject: MM: Politics and Art > I am so sad to hear that Patty's new album is political. I love Patty's > music and she has helped me get through many sad times. She was the first > person I was able to listen to after I lost my own record deal. For a year > afterward I couldn't even turn on the radio. One thing I love about her > music is that she makes it so personal that I find many universal truths in > her words and thus don't feel quite so alone. I'm not saying that artist > don't have a right to use their platform to speak their minds politically > it's just that for me politics is something that needs to be debated, to be > talked about. Listening to politics in music is like listening to a sermon > and if you don't agree with the premises there is nothing you can do but > turn the person off. Further, at least for me, it has the effect of > tainting the artists other work. I can't listen to them without thinking > about how much I disagree with their politics. This happened to me with > Kris Delmhorst. I refused to see her live show because I knew it would be > littered with attacks against what I believe in politically and > philosophically. I just wish with all my heart that these artists would > leave the politics aside so that we can enjoy their art and feel the human > connection with them. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org [mailto:owner-mad-mission@smoe.org] On > Behalf Of Becca Jarry > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 4:09 PM > To: mad-mission@smoe.org > Subject: MM: As cold as it gets > > I just read the review for Impossible Dream on the ATO records site and sure > > enough it does mention some political flavor to the album. No doubt Patty > is speaking her mind through the music and this song is meant for Bush. > Pretty cool. > Becca > > _________________________________________________________________ > Say good-bye to spam, viruses and pop-ups with MSN Premium -- free trial > offer! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200359ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:47:43 -0800 From: "Dave Doody" Subject: RE: MM: Politics and Art >From: "April Fritz" > >I am so sad to hear that Patty's new album is political. I love Patty's >music and she has helped me get through many sad times. >One thing I love about her music is that she makes it so personal that I >find many universal truths in her words and thus don't feel quite so alone. April, if you haven't already, you should go read the review of the album at the ATO site: http://www.atorecords.com/artists/pg/default.asp It doesn't sound to me like Patty's album is the kind of political that you might disagree with. Here's a quote from her: "There really has to be a time of awakening in our civilization," she says, "or we're gonna lose some things we take for granted. Most of all, we have to start paying attention to each other and the planet." I find it somewhat sad that a statement like this could be considered "political" and not simply "truth". The review goes on to point out the other influences on the album, including gospel music. I don't think it's going to be one big Bush-bashing CD, and the one song that's been sent around today has already had an alternative interpretation. >Listening to politics in music is like listening to a sermon and if you >don't agree with the premises there is nothing you can do but turn the >person off. I'm not sure that's necessarily true. You can learn an awful lot, at the very least gain more of an appreciation of where someone is coming from, if the message is stated in an eloquent fashion. I have little doubt that Patty will present a viewpoint that's interesting and thought-provoking, whether you or I (or even she...she often writes from other people's perspectives) agree with it. >Further, at least for me, it has the effect of tainting the artists other >work. I can't listen to them without thinking about how much I disagree >with their politics. I'm not sure how I'd respond to that situation if, say, Patty came out with a contrary stance on an issue that's really important to me. I might respond the way you did with Kris D. I hope I wouldn't, but I'm really not sure. What I do know is you owe it to yourself to at least hear the new CD before making a judgment about it. You were surely planning on doing so anyway, but I'd hate to think that someone would form too negative an opinion about something like this based on one person's review. Dave _________________________________________________________________ Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 21:49:03 EST From: Oldrancocas@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: Politics and Art April, how kind you are in your response to big mouthed, trouble starting, loud mouth yapping Becca. I on the other hand will once again sacrifice myself since Mike never does anything to stop this stuff until I get pissed off and tell someone to go f themselves. Becca take your BS interpretation of what Patty is singing about and shove it. Thanks you and goodbye once again I suppose. LOL! Jesus H Evil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:55:07 -0800 From: "April Fritz" Subject: RE: MM: Politics and Art Roy - if you cannot see the difference between the lyrics to "As Cold as it Gets" and "Tony" or "Poor Man's House" then there is sadly no possibility of "interesting discussion" (as you put it) with you. Perhaps you mis-spoke. If the song were about the "human condition" of war that would be one thing but it seems to me to be more of an attack on one individual. For the record, I am exposed to distasteful ideas and emotions on a daily basis. The silliness of Patty's lyric only saddens me. I think it is beneath her. Hopefully the whole album will not be this trite. - -----Original Message----- From: Roy Larsen [mailto:roy_larsen@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 6:37 PM To: april@aprilville.com; mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: RE: MM: Politics and Art I would suggest that the whole purpose of art is to evoke emotions. Those emotions could be associated with personal relationships, such as finding or losing love, as well as the human condition, such as poverty, war, and injustice. Poor Man's House, Shells, and Tony would be classic examples from Patty on the human condition. And of course, the problems, causes, and solutions to the human condition are by their nature political. It's true that you can't debate with a painting, or a song, or a sculpture, but art can certainly spur a lot of interesting discussion between open minded folks. I believe this is the reason good art exists. But I also feel that for one to appreciate Art as an expression, one must be willing to be exposed to ideas and emotions that are distasteful. I would hope that a few distasteful experiences with an artist would not invalidate his/her whole body of work if it brought much more pleasure and comfort than not. Roy - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "April Fritz" To: Subject: MM: Politics and Art Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:51:23 -0800 I am so sad to hear that Patty's new album is political. I love Patty's music and she has helped me get through many sad times. She was the first person I was able to listen to after I lost my own record deal. For a year afterward I couldn't even turn on the radio. One thing I love about her music is that she makes it so personal that I find many universal truths in her words and thus don't feel quite so alone. I'm not saying that artist don't have a right to use their platform to speak their minds politically it's just that for me politics is something that needs to be debated, to be talked about. Listening to politics in music is like listening to a sermon and if you don't agree with the premises there is nothing you can do but turn the person off. Further, at least for me, it has the effect of tainting the artists other work. I can't listen to them without thinking about how much I disagree with their politics. This happened to me with Kris Delmhorst. I refused to see her live show because I knew it would be littered with attacks against what I believe in politically and philosophically. I just wish with all my heart that these artists would leave the politics aside so that we can enjoy their art and feel the human connection with them. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org [mailto:owner-mad-mission@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Becca Jarry Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 4:09 PM To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: As cold as it gets I just read the review for Impossible Dream on the ATO records site and sure enough it does mention some political flavor to the album. No doubt Patty is speaking her mind through the music and this song is meant for Bush. Pretty cool. Becca _________________________________________________________________ Say good-bye to spam, viruses and pop-ups with MSN Premium -- free trial offer! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200359ave/direct/01/ _________________________________________________________________ Dream of owning a home? Find out how in the First-time Home Buying Guide. http://special.msn.com/home/firsthome.armx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:03:28 EST From: Oldrancocas@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: Politics and Art Well said April. Evil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:27:26 -0500 From: "Lisa Zwick" Subject: Re: MM: As Cold As It Gets Maybe I was sleeping, I dunno...but....did I miss something? How are you hearing these songs? - -Lisa - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 4:55 PM Subject: re: MM: As Cold As It Gets > I hadn't really thought about what the song meant but I totally think you're > right that it is about Bush. > The line, "I fight a war I may never see one" doesn't really make sense to me > but I think you've got the lyrics correct. > > I adore the very last line "I live only to see you live to regret everything > that you've done"... so chilling and malicious. > > The song that's been getting to me is 'don't come easy' > "you're out there walking down a highway/and all of the signs got blown away/ > sometimes you wonder if you're walking in the wrong direction" > > -Rachel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:00:18 EST From: FlamingRed74@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: Politics and Art This time around, I will refrain from any "pot-stirring". LOL! ;-) Dave (who will just sit here & listen to some beautiful Darcie songs instead) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:03:20 EST From: FlamingRed74@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: Politics and Art Ok.. so I DO have to delve into this briefly by saying, AMEN to everything that April said. Foremost, what I have cut & pasted below. Dave (who will REALLY go listen to Darcie now.. YAY!) In a message dated 02/26/2004 8:56:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, april@aprilville.com writes: I just wish with all my heart that these artists would leave the politics aside so that we can enjoy their art and feel the human connection with them. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:37:01 -0800 From: "Roy Larsen" Subject: RE: MM: Politics and Art "....there is sadly no possibility of "interesting discussion" (as you put it) with you". Sadly April, it appears not....... Peace (if that's not too political) Roy - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "April Fritz" To: "'Roy Larsen'" , Subject: RE: MM: Politics and Art Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:55:07 -0800 Roy - if you cannot see the difference between the lyrics to "As Cold as it Gets" and "Tony" or "Poor Man's House" then there is sadly no possibility of "interesting discussion" (as you put it) with you. Perhaps you mis-spoke. If the song were about the "human condition" of war that would be one thing but it seems to me to be more of an attack on one individual. For the record, I am exposed to distasteful ideas and emotions on a daily basis. The silliness of Patty's lyric only saddens me. I think it is beneath her. Hopefully the whole album will not be this trite. - -----Original Message----- From: Roy Larsen [mailto:roy_larsen@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 6:37 PM To: april@aprilville.com; mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: RE: MM: Politics and Art I would suggest that the whole purpose of art is to evoke emotions. Those emotions could be associated with personal relationships, such as finding or losing love, as well as the human condition, such as poverty, war, and injustice. Poor Man's House, Shells, and Tony would be classic examples from Patty on the human condition. And of course, the problems, causes, and solutions to the human condition are by their nature political. It's true that you can't debate with a painting, or a song, or a sculpture, but art can certainly spur a lot of interesting discussion between open minded folks. I believe this is the reason good art exists. But I also feel that for one to appreciate Art as an expression, one must be willing to be exposed to ideas and emotions that are distasteful. I would hope that a few distasteful experiences with an artist would not invalidate his/her whole body of work if it brought much more pleasure and comfort than not. Roy - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "April Fritz" To: Subject: MM: Politics and Art Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:51:23 -0800 I am so sad to hear that Patty's new album is political. I love Patty's music and she has helped me get through many sad times. She was the first person I was able to listen to after I lost my own record deal. For a year afterward I couldn't even turn on the radio. One thing I love about her music is that she makes it so personal that I find many universal truths in her words and thus don't feel quite so alone. I'm not saying that artist don't have a right to use their platform to speak their minds politically it's just that for me politics is something that needs to be debated, to be talked about. Listening to politics in music is like listening to a sermon and if you don't agree with the premises there is nothing you can do but turn the person off. Further, at least for me, it has the effect of tainting the artists other work. I can't listen to them without thinking about how much I disagree with their politics. This happened to me with Kris Delmhorst. I refused to see her live show because I knew it would be littered with attacks against what I believe in politically and philosophically. I just wish with all my heart that these artists would leave the politics aside so that we can enjoy their art and feel the human connection with them. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org [mailto:owner-mad-mission@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Becca Jarry Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 4:09 PM To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: As cold as it gets I just read the review for Impossible Dream on the ATO records site and sure enough it does mention some political flavor to the album. No doubt Patty is speaking her mind through the music and this song is meant for Bush. Pretty cool. Becca _________________________________________________________________ Say good-bye to spam, viruses and pop-ups with MSN Premium -- free trial offer! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200359ave/direct/01/ _________________________________________________________________ Dream of owning a home? Find out how in the First-time Home Buying Guide. http://special.msn.com/home/firsthome.armx _________________________________________________________________ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage  4 plans to choose from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V8 #36 ********************************