From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V7 #273 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.pattygriffin.net/PattyInConcertDB.php * OR * go to http://www.atorecords.com * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V7 #___ gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. * Also, PLEASE do not quote an entire digest when you reply to the * list. Edit out anything you are not referring to. mad-mission-digest Saturday, October 25 2003 Volume 07 : Number 273 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: Re:Re: Patty-flavored Chicks DVD [Guajillo@aol.com] MM: Music Royalties And Carnegie Hall [PghPasta@aol.com] MM: It all goes into the soup ["kara Hetz" ] MM: more songwriter stuff [GoldcupTJ@aol.com] MM: Practice , baby , practice ["Don Henn" ] Re: MM: How Music Royalties Work ["Joey Eckstrom" ] Re: MM: Practice , baby , practice ["Janet C. Jordan M.D." writes: << When they did Let Him Fly, that's flattery. The song's on her cd, so if they cover it, people can still go and get Patty's cd to hear the original version. But that's not the case with the other two songs.>> In a way, it's even MORE flattering when artists like the Chicks record songs that the artist hasn't released yet. It means the Chicks really love these songs and are recording them for that very reason -- and not because they're already well-known songs that might help the band sell a few more records. And it means that when Patty does (if she ever does) release these songs then many more people will be familiar with them and probably more likely to buy the album they appear on. > < put her blood and sweat into them, and yet they are still unavailable > commercially. I think what it > then seems like to people hearing it from the Dixie Chicks, is that Patty > wrote a song FOR them. As if were just a lyricist. But that's not the case.>> > > Of course it isn't the case. But if the Chicks hadn't recorded Top or Truth, then NO ONE would have heard these songs, outside of the very tiny population of Patty fanatics like us. And that would've earned her exactly *zero* cents as opposed to the very hefty royalties she is now reaping. (Not to mention the many new fans she has won when Chicks fans see she is the author of said songs.) And even if people thought she wrote it solely for the Chicks -- so what? America's greatest songwriters -- Gershwin, Porter, Rodgers & Hart et al only wrote songs for others. A songwriter wants her songs to be heard -- that's the bottom line; and if they're heard via a phenomenally popular group so much the better. <> That's easy: because these two songs are now very very famous songs thanks to the Chicks. The recognition factor. It's the same reason why artists always sing their big hits at every concert -- because the tunes are well known and people want to hear them. Bottom line is: the more artists who record Patty Griffin songs the better -- whether she releases the songs first or maybe even never does. By having other artists record her work it means 1. more people will hear Patty's songs, 2. Patty will win new fans, 3. Patty gets more money, and 4. we get to hear songs we might not otherwise get to hear. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:28:46 EDT From: PghPasta@aol.com Subject: MM: Music Royalties And Carnegie Hall Roy - That was really well said. One more point of trivia from the Carnegie Hall Concert...two, actually...Patty and Emmylou were both wearing fishnet stockings. Also, my first row seats directly in front of the stage left microphone allowed me to witness this: when Julie Miller was on stage waiting with the others to sing back-ups , she looked overcome with emotion, like the thought of performing in Carnegie Hall was really just hitting her even though she had played there with Buddy at the 7pm show, or that the evening was coming to an end, or there was still some residual sadness from her concert earlier that evening and the story about her brother. Her eyes were welling up and she barely sang even though she was at the mic. Having never seen her before, she struck me as painfully shy...so was this maybe an accurate observation or is that typical Julie? Just curious. She seemed so sweet...I will buy one of her CDs and check her out but I'd be interested in others' observations. Thanks. Cathy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:54:32 -0700 From: "kara Hetz" Subject: MM: It all goes into the soup > < put her blood and sweat into them, and yet they are still unavailable > commercially. I think what it > then seems like to people hearing it from the Dixie Chicks, is that Patty > wrote a song FOR them. As if were just a lyricist. But that's not the case.>> > Just to put my 2 cents in . . . I really take issue with the statement, "just a lyricist." As an aspiring singer/songwriter and pushing 40 now, I don't have illusions about stardom, but the idea that something I wrote could become known in the hands of another artist greatly appeals to me and would be a dream, really. I know Patty is so much more--an amazing performer specifically, and we as fans want the world to know who she is. But she is getting that recognition, among her fans as well as her peers. She is making her name known through the beauty of her music and just because another band is making good too doesn't lessen the fact of her immense talent. But I'll bet you probably aren't aware that some of your favorite songs (other than Patty songs) were possibly written by someone other than those performing them. Let's be careful about diminishing the work of the writers out there who never became "stars." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:28:53 EDT From: GoldcupTJ@aol.com Subject: MM: more songwriter stuff As I understand it, a song is totally up for grabs without permission from the writer IF it has been recorded. If the song has not yet been recorded then permission from the writer must be obtained to record it. I know I've heard John Hiatt thank Bonnie Raitt nearly everytime HE sings his own song "Thing Called Love." I believe it was "Thanks Bonnie for keeping tires on the tour bus." I've also seen him thank BB King/Eric Clapton, Buddy Guy and others for recording Hiatt songs just before he sang his own song. And don't you just love it when the writer does a better version then the big hit version? Tim J. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:38:47 -0400 From: "Don Henn" Subject: MM: Practice , baby , practice MMers , Patty's been practicing for at least a decade , but her first 6-song tape is definitely worthy of Carnegie Hall. Recognition is what it takes , & Emmylou gave it to her as part of a special week for her after she was chosen as a curator for Carnegie Hall. Thank you Emmylou , but I'm waiting for the day when Patty plays the Big Hall b/c she is in great demand. Great to meet before the show with so many of Patty's biggest fans & supporters. Met John Higgins for the first time , & since his name was only mentioned once , in passing , I would like to give him due credit for doing what may be the most important work of all her fans ; cleaning up the sound & preserving her best unreleased music for posterity. This music will one day be clamored for by her fans & the profiteers. Would love to see Patty disable these profiteers by releasing all these songs as-is someday. She could easily pull together a CD as good or better than what's already been released from these songs.Set list : Goodbye The Long Ride Making Pies Top of the World Rain Chief Flaming Red / solo Icicles Falling / solo The Kite Song / solo Mad Mission Mil Besos Stolen Car Falling Down / w/Emmylou Truth # 2 / w/Emmylou & Buddy Mary / w/Emmylou , Buddy & Julie Miller Encore Tomorrow Night Sweet Lorraine First thing I noticed was that Patty's voice seemed a little thin when she opened up "Goodbye". I think it was partly b/c she was nervous , & partly b/c the main speakers were right over our heads but directed toward the back of the theater. Excellent version , though. Music & vocals continued to sound a little thin on occasion throughout the show. Patty's nervousness was attested to when she said that she had to change before she came out , due to sweating. "Top of the World" was definitely the highlight of the show , which sort of broke the mold for most of her shows. Don't recall any other show's highlight being before her solos. Doug made the most of his Carnegie Hall appearance by knocking out a great solo at the end of TOTW. She surprised by doing "Flaming Red" solo while Doug was there. Excellent , but I prefer the Patty & Doug version. Never heard "The Kite Song" before , but it looks like another is added to Patty's long list of great music. For those who haven't seen it on TDtT , the list for the new CD looks like this so far : ( I imagine it's subject to change , tho ) Top of the World Icicles Falling Useless Desires Letters From Home The Moon's Gonna' Follow Me Home Truth # 2 The Kite Song At one point during "Stolen Car" , Doug inadvertently left his volume too low. I thought it sounded great , but he quickly turned it up. Saw the set list before the start , & was hoping for a great version of "Falling Down. While I really appreciate the unwavering support that Emmy shows for Patty & her music , & I think that she is a great performer in her own right , she often manages to detract from Patty's performances by offering vocal "support" that competes with Patty's voice. Her vocals were definitely louder & stronger than Patty's. She did better on "Truth # 2 & "Mary" # 2 was again the highlight instrumentally. Didn't match the Ryman version , but like that , I loved the way the music swelled & faded between the vocals. Another surprise when "Tomorrow Night" was done with the full band. Liked the bass support , & for some reason , Doug's guitar part seemed a lot crisper than when he & Patty do the song. Closed out with a great rendition of "Sweet Lorraine" , & Patty's Carnegie Hall appearance is now history. Patty gave due deference to her Carnegie Hall appearance early on , when she mentioned the sweating , & after talking about the honor of being there , put her head down & slightly to her right , flashed that humble smile hers , & said " but I made it " I found that very gratifying , & hope that Patty's humility is as inbred as it appears to be , b/c she's going to continue to face a lot more pressure to become full of herself , as a lot of others have done. I have no doubt that if she does , her music will rapidly deteriorate. While some artists thrive on arrogance & diva-ness , I think a large part of Patty's great music is founded on that humility. One note that no one else mentioned ; Patty said that she tried out for "Arsenic & Old Lace" in school , & got the part of a corpse. Hmmm... dark... tragic... & morbid. Wonder if that was another one of Patty's musical influences : ) All the trouble went away And it wasn't Just a dream Patty Griffin "The Kite Song" Don ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:49:27 +0000 From: "Joey Eckstrom" Subject: Re: MM: How Music Royalties Work what if the songwriter isn't told, how would they find out? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy patented spam control and more. Get two months FREE! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:45:30 -0400 From: "Don Henn" Subject: MM: Re: Re: Patty-flavored Chicks DVD MMers , Never had a prob with the Chix. They give Patty at least as much credit as she gives to Bruce & Tom Waits. You can't go by what they do on TV , b/c they don't have the control they have in concert. I saw 3-4 shows when Patty was opening & they not only gave her credit , but had her perform with them. While I understand Lisa's point about doing TOTW , that Patty has TRIED to release , the Chix have helped Patty immeasurably in reaching that 10-20 % of the music audience that are captured by her music. Jesus Christ This God-damned rain Will someone put me On a train Tom Waits "Ruby's Arms" Performed most excellently by Patty Griffin Don ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:42:56 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) From: "Janet C. Jordan M.D." Subject: Re: MM: Practice , baby , practice WOW Don,=0D I've been waiting for your article. You put together the feeling for me, with near perfection! I too could sense that the first few songs while technically good, were a little stifled. But in Patty's usual form, she went on to perform a passionate concert, with all her heart and a voice t= hat Emmy Lou introduced so perfectly. =0D =0D I don't think we have to worry about Patty's humility. It's her nature.=20 The highlights for me were:=0D Meeting all of the Mad Missioners who came together like a group who had known each other forever...a reunion for people who had never met. ... a first step in a long journey that's halfway over.=0D Patty's SOLO of Flaming Red..riveting!=0D Patty's characterization in Mad Mission....so cute!=0D Doug Lancio's electric riff in Tomorrow Night.....=0D Getting my guitar autographed by Patty, Doug, Emmy Lou, and Steve Earle..= =2E.. =2Ejust by saying I was with Jenn Caputo. =0D Thanks Jenn!=0D What a great evening in NY!=0D janet=0D - -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Don Henn=0D Date: Saturday, October 25, 2003 05:37:34 PM=0D To: mad-mission=0D Subject: MM: Practice , baby , practice=0D =0D MMers ,=0D =0D Patty's been practicing for at least a decade ,=0D but her first 6-song tape is definitely worthy of=0D Carnegie Hall. Recognition is what it takes , &=0D Emmylou gave it to her as part of a special week=0D for her after she was chosen as a curator for=0D Carnegie Hall. Thank you Emmylou , but I'm=0D waiting for the day when Patty plays the Big Hall=0D b/c she is in great demand.=0D =0D =0D Great to meet before the show with so many of=0D Patty's biggest fans & supporters. Met John Higgins=0D for the first time , & since his name was only=0D mentioned once , in passing , I would like to give=0D him due credit for doing what may be the most=0D important work of all her fans ; cleaning up the sound=0D & preserving her best unreleased music for posterity.=0D This music will one day be clamored for by her fans=0D & the profiteers. Would love to see Patty disable=0D these profiteers by releasing all these songs as-is=0D someday. She could easily pull together a CD as=0D good or better than what's already been released=0D from these songs.Set list :=0D =0D Goodbye=0D The Long Ride=0D Making Pies=0D Top of the World=0D Rain=0D Chief=0D Flaming Red / solo=0D Icicles Falling / solo=0D The Kite Song / solo=0D Mad Mission=0D Mil Besos=0D Stolen Car=0D Falling Down / w/Emmylou=0D Truth # 2 / w/Emmylou & Buddy=0D Mary / w/Emmylou , Buddy & Julie Miller=0D =0D Encore=0D =0D Tomorrow Night=0D Sweet Lorraine=0D =0D First thing I noticed was that Patty's voice seemed=0D a little thin when she opened up "Goodbye". I think=0D it was partly b/c she was nervous , & partly b/c the=0D main speakers were right over our heads but directed=0D toward the back of the theater. Excellent version ,=0D though. Music & vocals continued to sound a little=0D thin on occasion throughout the show. Patty's=0D nervousness was attested to when she said that=0D she had to change before she came out , due to=0D sweating. "Top of the World" was definitely the=0D highlight of the show , which sort of broke the mold=0D for most of her shows. Don't recall any other show's=0D highlight being before her solos. Doug made the=0D most of his Carnegie Hall appearance by knocking=0D out a great solo at the end of TOTW. She surprised=0D by doing "Flaming Red" solo while Doug was there.=0D Excellent , but I prefer the Patty & Doug version.=0D Never heard "The Kite Song" before , but it looks=0D like another is added to Patty's long list of great=0D music. For those who haven't seen it on TDtT , the=0D list for the new CD looks like this so far : ( I imagine=0D it's subject to change , tho )=0D =0D Top of the World=0D Icicles Falling=0D Useless Desires=0D Letters From Home=0D The Moon's Gonna' Follow Me Home=0D Truth # 2=0D The Kite Song=0D =0D At one point during "Stolen Car" , Doug=0D inadvertently left his volume too low. I thought it=0D sounded great , but he quickly turned it up. Saw=0D the set list before the start , & was hoping for a=0D great version of "Falling Down. While I really=0D appreciate the unwavering support that Emmy=0D shows for Patty & her music , & I think that she=0D is a great performer in her own right , she often=0D manages to detract from Patty's performances by=0D offering vocal "support" that competes with Patty's=0D voice. Her vocals were definitely louder & stronger=0D than Patty's. She did better on "Truth # 2 & "Mary"=0D # 2 was again the highlight instrumentally. Didn't=0D match the Ryman version , but like that , I loved=0D the way the music swelled & faded between the=0D vocals. Another surprise when "Tomorrow Night"=0D was done with the full band. Liked the bass=0D support , & for some reason , Doug's guitar part=0D seemed a lot crisper than when he & Patty do=0D the song. Closed out with a great rendition of=0D "Sweet Lorraine" , & Patty's Carnegie Hall=0D appearance is now history. Patty gave due=0D deference to her Carnegie Hall appearance early=0D on , when she mentioned the sweating , & after=0D talking about the honor of being there , put her=0D head down & slightly to her right , flashed that=0D humble smile hers , & said " but I made it " I=0D found that very gratifying , & hope that Patty's=0D humility is as inbred as it appears to be , b/c=0D she's going to continue to face a lot more=0D pressure to become full of herself , as a lot of=0D others have done. I have no doubt that if she=0D does , her music will rapidly deteriorate. While=0D some artists thrive on arrogance & diva-ness ,=0D I think a large part of Patty's great music is=0D founded on that humility. One note that no one=0D else mentioned ; Patty said that she tried out=0D for "Arsenic & Old Lace" in school , & got the part=0D of a corpse. Hmmm... dark... tragic... & morbid.=0D Wonder if that was another one of Patty's musical=0D influences : )=0D =0D All the trouble went away=0D And it wasn't=0D Just a dream=0D =0D Patty Griffin=0D =0D "The Kite Song"=0D =0D Don=0D =2E [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif] ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V7 #273 *********************************