From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V7 #39 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.pattygriffin.net/PattyInConcert.html * OR * go to http://www.atorecords.com * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V7 #___ gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. * Also, PLEASE do not quote an entire digest when you reply to the * list. Edit out anything you are not referring to. mad-mission-digest Friday, February 7 2003 Volume 07 : Number 039 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: Profit on a compilation... [diamondmask@juno.com] Re: MM: Monday Morning ["F&L Garvey" ] RE: MM: Monday Morning [Jim Murphy ] MM: NPC: Kasey Chambers extras!? ["Sarah Stanley" ] RE: MM: Monday Morning ["Roy Larsen" ] RE: MM: Monday Morning ["Sean and Rebecca" ] MM: my 2 cents [Kaycee973@aol.com] MM: BOOTLEG ["Janet C. Jordan M.D." ] MM: re: Monday Morning [Danalee7@aol.com] Re: MM: Evil Patty [Martin Brock ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 04:36:05 -0800 From: diamondmask@juno.com Subject: MM: Profit on a compilation... Lots of these are from radio station appearances, and albums where she sang back up. Shouldn't be charging money though. Bad, bad, bad! john in sumner wa ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:10:44 -0500 From: "F&L Garvey" Subject: Re: MM: Monday Morning How rude - believe me - I'd like the set, but $25.00? Come on - who's the idiot that did this? Thank God they didn't email me. (not like I could do anything) It should be traded - I bet we can download all those songs anyway. - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 1:24 AM Subject: re: MM: Monday Morning > "3 disc set of Patty Griffin non-LP tracks > all three for $25 total if you're interested" > > I don't even have this collection that someone put together, probably with > some of our list collections and boots I would say. Never ever pay for these > boots- we trade or many times give away for no money exchange whatsoever on > this list, a matter of honor even. How could anyone feel good about charging > $25 is beyond me. I'd like to see this person stopped. Not fair to Patty or > even the list members who have put collections of Rarities together as a > service to Patty's fans, a labor of love, for no profit ever with the goal of > spreading Patty's work among those who truly appreciate her. > Dana, ticked now in Berkeley ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 11:20:01 -0500 From: Jim Murphy Subject: RE: MM: Monday Morning The person who sent the original email out is a guy who records a lot of shows in the NYC area. He both sells and trades the shows. The problem is that if you trade with him, he will offer your show for sale soon thereafter. The 3 cd set was put together by him from shows he received in trade. He saw how many people want items like LFML and thought he could profit from it. Is there anything you can do about it, yes, do not buy or trade with him. When this item comes up on ebay, you notify ebay that it is a boot. That said, I have a question? Are we who trade for show we "just have to have" any better than someone who sells shows? We will say that it is criminal that Patty or another artist receives no money from these people who sell boots but it is alright for a "trader" to trade shows. Do we "profit" from our trades. I for one would say yes I do. If I record a show and then trade my show to 10 other fans for 10 other shows I don't have and really want, haven't I profited from my trade, you bet I did. Now I am in a better position to receive more show I want because my library is bigger due to my trades. Within time it is possible for me to have everything, then what will I do, upgrade for better quality shows. and it goes on and on and I feel that I made a profit from this. We say we are "trying to get the music out there" Do we know if the artist really wants the shows out there. Do we care about their feelings on boots or do we only care to have the shows. In discussions with members of Pattys inner circle, they say she does not really like shows to go out because she uses shows as a way to work thing out with new songs. Then again ATO records solicits copies of shows for Dave Mathews, David Gray and others to put up on their websites. I have sent copies of shows to members of ATO management, marketing group, etc. In a recent Washington Post interview, Patty said "she allows downloads from the internet" but doesn't say if it is recorded songs or boots she wants downloaded. Sorry guys, I have never seen the logic in all of this. I record show, I trade shows, I give away show, I have never sold a show, but I have purchased show, I have purchased show from the guy who sent the email, that is why I got one from him, my problem is that he sells show that people trade to him or gave him. When a collector or lover of an artist wants something that has it do with that artist, we do whatever we can to get what we want, be it recorded shows, tickets to show, autographs, cd's, paper/poster items. We all have this sickness in us. We all want to "profit" in some way Peace Murph - -----Original Message----- From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org [mailto:owner-mad-mission@smoe.org]On Behalf Of F&L Garvey Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:11 AM To: Danalee7@aol.com; jjerdoc@mchsi.com; mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: Re: MM: Monday Morning How rude - believe me - I'd like the set, but $25.00? Come on - who's the idiot that did this? Thank God they didn't email me. (not like I could do anything) It should be traded - I bet we can download all those songs anyway. - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 1:24 AM Subject: re: MM: Monday Morning > "3 disc set of Patty Griffin non-LP tracks > all three for $25 total if you're interested" > > I don't even have this collection that someone put together, probably with > some of our list collections and boots I would say. Never ever pay for these > boots- we trade or many times give away for no money exchange whatsoever on > this list, a matter of honor even. How could anyone feel good about charging > $25 is beyond me. I'd like to see this person stopped. Not fair to Patty or > even the list members who have put collections of Rarities together as a > service to Patty's fans, a labor of love, for no profit ever with the goal of > spreading Patty's work among those who truly appreciate her. > Dana, ticked now in Berkeley ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 14:32:34 -0500 From: "Sarah Stanley" Subject: MM: NPC: Kasey Chambers extras!? Hey there -- I'm SO upset! I've been crazy broke for so long and just got my tax refund and was about to go buy my Kasey tickets (just checked the other day and could still get 4 tickets!) and now it's sold out!!! ARGH. Does anyone have one or two extra tickets to her show at The Ark in Ann Arbor, MI on 2-23??? Please keep me in mind if anything becomes available! Thanks! Peace, Sarah ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ "Drank all I could swallow now the moon's gonna follow me home....." -- Patty Griffin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 21:33:11 +0000 From: "Roy Larsen" Subject: RE: MM: Monday Morning Murph, I had these very same thoughts and considered stating them on this forum but lacked the conviction of character to do so. Your essay has shamed me into at least publicly supporting your well stated thesis. You capture what I can only hope is everyone's ambivalence at trading boots. Roy P.S. Maaadkat, my B&P package for the Scottish Rite show is in the mail..... - ----Original Message Follows---- From: Jim Murphy To: "'F&L Garvey'" , Danalee7@aol.com, jjerdoc@mchsi.com, mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: RE: MM: Monday Morning Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 11:20:01 -0500 The person who sent the original email out is a guy who records a lot of shows in the NYC area. He both sells and trades the shows. The problem is that if you trade with him, he will offer your show for sale soon thereafter. The 3 cd set was put together by him from shows he received in trade. He saw how many people want items like LFML and thought he could profit from it. Is there anything you can do about it, yes, do not buy or trade with him. When this item comes up on ebay, you notify ebay that it is a boot. That said, I have a question? Are we who trade for show we "just have to have" any better than someone who sells shows? We will say that it is criminal that Patty or another artist receives no money from these people who sell boots but it is alright for a "trader" to trade shows. Do we "profit" from our trades. I for one would say yes I do. If I record a show and then trade my show to 10 other fans for 10 other shows I don't have and really want, haven't I profited from my trade, you bet I did. Now I am in a better position to receive more show I want because my library is bigger due to my trades. Within time it is possible for me to have everything, then what will I do, upgrade for better quality shows. and it goes on and on and I feel that I made a profit from this. We say we are "trying to get the music out there" Do we know if the artist really wants the shows out there. Do we care about their feelings on boots or do we only care to have the shows. In discussions with members of Pattys inner circle, they say she does not really like shows to go out because she uses shows as a way to work thing out with new songs. Then again ATO records solicits copies of shows for Dave Mathews, David Gray and others to put up on their websites. I have sent copies of shows to members of ATO management, marketing group, etc. In a recent Washington Post interview, Patty said "she allows downloads from the internet" but doesn't say if it is recorded songs or boots she wants downloaded. Sorry guys, I have never seen the logic in all of this. I record show, I trade shows, I give away show, I have never sold a show, but I have purchased show, I have purchased show from the guy who sent the email, that is why I got one from him, my problem is that he sells show that people trade to him or gave him. When a collector or lover of an artist wants something that has it do with that artist, we do whatever we can to get what we want, be it recorded shows, tickets to show, autographs, cd's, paper/poster items. We all have this sickness in us. We all want to "profit" in some way Peace Murph - -----Original Message----- From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org [mailto:owner-mad-mission@smoe.org]On Behalf Of F&L Garvey Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:11 AM To: Danalee7@aol.com; jjerdoc@mchsi.com; mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: Re: MM: Monday Morning How rude - believe me - I'd like the set, but $25.00? Come on - who's the idiot that did this? Thank God they didn't email me. (not like I could do anything) It should be traded - I bet we can download all those songs anyway. - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 1:24 AM Subject: re: MM: Monday Morning > "3 disc set of Patty Griffin non-LP tracks > all three for $25 total if you're interested" > > I don't even have this collection that someone put together, probably with > some of our list collections and boots I would say. Never ever pay for these > boots- we trade or many times give away for no money exchange whatsoever on > this list, a matter of honor even. How could anyone feel good about charging > $25 is beyond me. I'd like to see this person stopped. Not fair to Patty or > even the list members who have put collections of Rarities together as a > service to Patty's fans, a labor of love, for no profit ever with the goal of > spreading Patty's work among those who truly appreciate her. > Dana, ticked now in Berkeley _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 13:40:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Sean and Rebecca" Subject: RE: MM: Monday Morning Semantics, and meandering definitions of profit aside, I think it's pretty deplorable the charge money for a bootleg. I also think that if an artist is particular about taping, you should respect that artist's wishes, and not bootleg or trade the shows. Sean ________________________________________________ PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 17:24:08 EST From: Kaycee973@aol.com Subject: MM: my 2 cents i think that even though we all trade shows and have boots of almost every song (if not EVERY song patty has made).. from live recordings of shows or internet downloads or whatever..... if there was ever an album put out there that had any of these "non LP" songs on it, we would all buy it anyway.. even though we had the songs already... in total and complete support of our favorite girl, PATTY. i know i would. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 06:48:23 -0600 (Central Standard Time) From: "Janet C. Jordan M.D." Subject: MM: BOOTLEG OK.................as an ER doc I have learned (to much dismay) that all people might be created equal, but by the time they reach about 8 years old. .............they are not. There are givers & takers, thinkers & takers, workers& takers, altruistics & takers, artists & takers, admirers & takers, lovers and takers............ .....Patty appeals to the former, obviously. She will be fine because, after a decade, I have finally figured out that life is fair. She has the introspection and wisdom to understand that also. That's why she can write those LYRICS!!! :-) janet ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 20:43:30 EST From: Danalee7@aol.com Subject: MM: re: Monday Morning "If I record a show and then trade my show to 10 other fans for 10 other shows I don't have and really want, haven't I profited from my trade, you bet I did. Now I am in a better position to receive more show I want because my library is bigger due to my trades. Within time it is possible for me to have everything, then what will I do, upgrade for better quality shows. and it goes on and on and I feel that I made a profit from this." This is totally true about trading- I have given away and rec'd much in the past few years of trading boots. I did pay $29.95 for my very first boot from Music Machine. Jackson Browne Stays in Barcelona. I had no idea about the trading thing then and would never repeat that mistake again. Of course, that boot allowed me to trade for 3 others and on and on. I went from trading tapes to Cds now. I guess I draw the line at financial profit altho of course I have gained much in music. This hobby has actually cost me hundreds of dollars in tapes and Cd supplies as well as postage and mailers but I really love hearing these unrecorded songs and live shows which vary from the recorded studio Cds, which I also buy. I love sharing the music with others. So, I am also profitting, yes, but I feel in an altruistic way- Many times I give stuff to people without trading back. I hope and know actually that I have turned people into both Patty and Jackson fans and these same new fans have bought Cds, gone to concerts and passed by word of mouth Patty to friends of theirs, so I feel that Patty has gained, not lost by this- free advertising really. I know that Patty knows about all this and I hope that she doesn't mind too much. Yes, It is still not legal, and shades of gray may be hard to defend. Just don't give or take money for these boots- that is my position. Share, give, trade..... don't pay $. Pay $ for concerts and released Cds. Dana in Berkeley ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 20:10:17 -0800 (PST) From: Martin Brock Subject: Re: MM: Evil Patty I picked up a copy of "Signed First Edition" in Nashville. The concert was phenomenal and worth every penny, including the fifteen bucks for the video, but Patty lovers should steer clear of it. I was less outraged by her hit and run than embarassed for her. The video is painfully pretentious and sophomorically silly. I wouldn't enter it in an amateur contest much less feature it on a first-rate concert tour. Patty is soft-hearted and presumably is doing someone a favor by appearing in the video and distributing it, but it reeks of a friend trying to capitalize on her success. For Patty's devotees, the video's worth a few laughs, but anyone else could feel exploited by its sale at her concerts. Unless you're a collector of anything-associated-with-Patty, the video's not worth fifteen cents. - --- Don Henn wrote: > MMers , > > Gary must be banished from polite society. His > insidious force has reached out & drawn Patty > into his sphere of influence. I watched in horror > as a film showed our Patty brutally running down a > cyclist in her car , & stealing from him as he lay > injured. "Signed First Edition" , a 9 minute film > by Roy Taylor , starring Patty Griffin & scored > by Screen Door Music , that I picked up at the > Birchmere. $15 for a 9 minute film is a little > steep , but true artistes must be funded. I hope > this doesn't cast Patty & Roy as mercenaries. > Searched my E-mail for this quote , & found it > under the heading of "Mean Patty" , also said > in jest. Coincidence or Master Plan ? Hmmm.. > > Sister bluebird flying high above > Shine your wings forward to the sun > > Jon Anderson > > "Starship Trooper" > > Performed by Yes > > Don > > PS ; Still can't receive E-mail , & it may > take a few more days. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V7 #39 ********************************