From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V6 #280 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.pattygriffin.net/PattyInConcert.html * OR * go to http://www.atorecords.com * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V6 #___ gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Wednesday, July 31 2002 Volume 06 : Number 280 Today's Subjects: ----------------- FW: MM: In defense of FR ["Matthew Smith" ] MM: Stirring the pot of common sense ["Tremmel, Matt" ] MM: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: RE: In defense of FR [amber bass-patterson ] Re: MM: RE: Re: RE: Re: In defense of FR [FlamingRed74@aol.com] MM: SPC: download question ["Rob Hanning" ] MM: Re: mad-mission-digest V6 #279 [DLMSRM@aol.com] [none] ["Mike Gorecki" ] Re: MM: In defense of FR ["Lori Garvey" ] RE: MM: In defense of FR ["Willms, Gregory J." ] MM: FW Lori's favourite Male voice conundrum ["Matthew Smith" Subject: FW: MM: In defense of FR I agree (shock, horror) partly. I heard LWG first and it remains my favourite album by anyone; It rpoves that you don't need an 8 piece supergroup and 10kw of amplification to kick but! FR was simply LWG in glorius technicolour. I have to agree with the War against silence review of 1000 kisses. If only the reviewer had heard her live or some of the bootleg stuff. PG needn't have used the three tracks he suggested shouldn't be there, she has a large pile of much better songs than were found on some of 1000 kisses. You never get what you wan't and Forgiveness are my two favourite tracks, the former having more sheer grunt than Limp Bizkit, Papa Roach and Marylin Manson put together and multiplied to the power of their collective IQs (or shoes sizes, does not make much difference!). EM What technical Flaws? It's one of the best, cleanest, best produced records i've heard. No double tracking, chorusing, fading, or out of place slide guitars, clarinets, accordions. Just the singer, the instruments and a couple of microphones - -----Original Message----- From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org [mailto:owner-mad-mission@smoe.org]On Behalf Of nblomgren Sent: 30 July 2002 20:44 To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: Re: MM: In defense of FR Me, too. The range of emotion on FR, not to mention vocal range, is astonishing. It was the first thing I heard of Patty's, with LWG shortly after -- as soon as I could get to the record store :) LWG has the bitterest song I've _ever_ heard -- You Never Get What You Want - -- and though there are a few technical flaws (it was a demo, after all), it was a revelation hearing these songs come from the same woman who did Flaming Red. I'm not as enthralled with 1000 Kisses. The lyrics, as usual, never cease to surprise, but there's not the same kind of energy. I've been playing it in the car, working on accepting it for what it is, rather than comparing it to SB/FR/LWG, but it just hasn't switched on that obsessive, must-listen-to-this-again feeling that the earlier albums have. Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:14:56 -0400 From: "Tremmel, Matt" Subject: MM: Stirring the pot of common sense Hi Mad Mad Missionaries, Got to say I love all the eloquent dialogue going on about Patty's records. I still can't get my hands on a copy of Silver bell, but thought I'd chime in about the albums I've heard. I came to know Patty via Martina McBride's cover of Goodbye. I was so blown away by the song I had to hear the original (which ironically turned out to be more of a country feel). At the same time, I asked my friends to compile their best of the 90s top twenty. Several people placed one of her first two records on their list. I got Flaming Red to listen to. Liked some songs, didn't care for others. Then got Living With Ghosts and was shocked at the Nebraskian treatment and the bareness of the songs relative to FR. The naked shoulders head shot of Patty is perfect for that album. The second album should have had her on fire or with a big mo-hair sweater (hee hee). I listen to FR more and like the fleshed out versions of her songs quite a bit. The stark lyrics on LWG allow me to only listen to it when I'm emotionally capable. Sometimes I have to skip Poor Man's House and Lorraine because I want to start bawling. For some reason 1000 kisses is a little sweeter than bitter to me and I'm thoroughly enjoying it as well. The best part about Patty is her songs are so good they can move you whether a acoustic guitar or backed by a full raucous band. To the Dixie Chicks covering Patty comments, I think it's great that someone as popular and who are pushing million or records (more $$$ for Patty) are exposing different people to her music. Every cover I've ever heard of Patty's work pales in comparison to the original. But I'm grateful that my wife's cd of Martina had Patty's Goodbye on it. There are people who secretly want an artist to stay unknown. I used to want that for some of the bands I listened to in high school (early 80s - U2 and look what happened - haha). But I wouldn't care if Madonna or Britney covered Patty and sold a million singles or records. It's only one song. If that gave her a comfortable living and afforded her the ability to put out whatever she wanted and whenever. Great. Patty's integrity will continue to drive her to create or release quality songs and records regardless of who covers her, how the general public hears her music, or if any major label wakes up and does her justice. Do I have gripes? Yes. Should there be more records? Should the Mil Besos record be longer? Should Patty be inducted into the hall of fame someday? The answer is Of course, of course, of course. Whoops! CRASH! I slipped on a bar of soap stepping off my soap box. ow. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:39:35 -0400 From: "Guy S. Kaiser" Subject: Re: MM: review Hi David, now see what you started, lol most critics are a waste of time but this one did have some good points. Maybe it all depends on which CD you heard first LWG or FR. LWG is a high standard to hold someone to, aren't most artist's first CD usually their best just because they've had those songs for years. Other than Patty it's Michelle Malone, Danielle Howle, & Kristen Hall who I'll make an effort to see live. And I listen to a whole range of junk from country blues to post modern noise, but mostly avoiding the corporate stuff. guy - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Tumbarello" To: "Guy S. Kaiser" Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 8:37 PM Subject: Re: MM: review > Guy, > This is just to you, not the list. > > You are right. I was using a cliche to state that > the CD, in GM's opinion was 3 songs too long, but he > didn't say that. He did not like the artistry of the > last 3 songs and thought that placing them at the end > invites one to stop the CD player after song 7. > > I would have to agree that 1000 Kisses is, on the > whole, uninspired. I am a Flaming Red fan first, then > a LWG fan, then 1000 Kisses would come in some place > after Emm Gryner's Public or Joan Jones' Starlight > Criminal and a slew of other female pop artists I > like. > > How about you? What kind of music are you into > right now? > > DT > > > > --- "Guy S. Kaiser" wrote: > > Actually he's not saying the CD is three songs too > > long, just that the last > > three wreck the preceding songs, the ones actually > > written by Patty. I agree > > with this assessment of 1000 kisses, it's way too > > short, and has too much > > emphasis on the weakest songs. > > > > But he's totally blinded by LWG to appreciate FR. > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:36:43 -0500 From: amber bass-patterson Subject: MM: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: RE: In defense of FR darcie wrote, > I assume anyone thats here enjoys everything Patty releases not exactly. i can't stand 'sorry and sad' and always skip it. ugh, what was she thinking? amber "Through Movement We Find Health" The Nia Technique ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:35:42 -0400 From: "Aimee ..." Subject: MM: Re: Flaming Red... Just thought I'd jump in w/ my thoughts... I found Patty through Flaming Red, while working for a large book/music chain (or, a "collection of fine stores" as we liked to say). I got the disc as a promo from one of the buyers, and fell in love w/ Patty's voice/passion. I quickly bought Living w/ Ghosts, and was shocked at the difference in style. I sold the heck out of both discs to my customers, depending on what style they were after, and quite often someone who bought one of the discs would come back for the other, despite my warnings that "if you liked the rockin' Patty, you will be suprised at the folk Patty" and vice versa- both good, just different. Personally, if I had to pick 5 CDs to listen to for the next 10 years, Flaming Red would be one of them. (as well as Antonin Dvorak's Symphony No 9 Op 95, 'From the New World', Duncan Sheik's "Humming", Shawn Colvin's "Fat City", and Indigo Girls "Swamp Ophelia".) I just like the collection of songs on it better than the songs on her other albums. Which isn't to say I don't like the songs on LWG or 1000 Kisses, I just like the group of songs on FR best as a whole. I will say that after seeing Patty live, I had an all new respect for her more acoustic album(s), and have listened to them a little more. In fact, "Time Will do the Talking" has replaced "Blue Sky" as my current favorite Patty song. And after hearing Mil Besos, I would love to hear Patty cover some Jazz Standards. (my heart skips a beat at the mere thought!!) I think the wonderful/amazing thing about Patty is that she *is* so versatile. To each their own...I'll take my Patty however I can get it. - -Aimee _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 10:35:36 EDT From: FlamingRed74@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: RE: Re: RE: Re: In defense of FR darcie wrote, > I assume anyone thats here enjoys everything Patty releases> Amber replies with: >not exactly. i can't stand 'sorry and sad' and always skip it. >ugh, what was she thinking?> Now.. I find this quite amusing because one of my VERY favorite Darcie songs is entitled "What Was I Thinking" .. LOL To chime in on the LWG vs. FR thing. This has been discussed many times before. I love both CDs. Both are filled with great songs. My first Patty experience was seeing her solo with just her & her guitar, & I bought LWG the very next day. It wasn't until 2 years later (& Many more Patty shows) that I heard FR. It was obvious to me that Patty wanted to rock.. I just didn't know that she could take it to the limits like with Wiggley Fingers, Flaming Red, etc.. Even though I KNEW she could do that though, I definitely got used to the sound of LWG, and her older live shows. I probably listen to both LWG & FR equally, when I'm not listening to a live show (which is rare), but if I had to pick one as her BEST CD, it would be LWG. Just the sparseness, & the songs on that CD are what I always think of when I think of Patty Griffin. The memories of seeing her singing those songs so passionately, with just 1 guitar & breaking multiple strings on it is what I think about.. It could just be a personal sentimental thing, but I have to go with LWG. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:23:38 -0500 From: "Rob Hanning" Subject: MM: SPC: download question I'd kinda like to hear the Chicks' covers of TOTW & Truth #2 before I decide to buy their album, and I know some have posted that they have downloaded it already. Can anyone tell me what site I need to go to for the new Chicks stuff? Any help would be appreciated. 3 Patty shows for me in the next week or so! Rackin' up the mileage on the old Escort. Later...Rob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:10:18 EDT From: DLMSRM@aol.com Subject: MM: Re: mad-mission-digest V6 #279 I personally feel that each album is like a child, each one is unique to themselves but you love them all equally. I love to listen to all of Patty's CD's depending on my mood defines which CD I want to listen to at that time. Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree. Diane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:20:56 -0400 From: "Mike Gorecki" Subject: [none] part of a note written after reading glenns review ."..poor patty. I envy her talent, I don't envy the world she has to live in order to share it with us." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:47:14 -0400 From: "Lori Garvey" Subject: Re: MM: In defense of FR I guess it depends on what you heard first maybe, because I heard Flaming Red first, then got Living with Ghosts, and thought, what is this?? Then eventually I loved it. It also may be because when I see myself performing any of her music, it would be anything from FR, ex:Blue Sky, etc etc etc. I'm a rock'n roll girl anyway. So I guess we are entitled to our own opinions. Patty Griffin - best female voice around!! (You guys don't want to know who my favorite male is, no one would read my email ever again.) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Smith" To: "Mad-Mission" Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 7:08 AM Subject: FW: MM: In defense of FR > I agree (shock, horror) partly. I heard LWG first and it remains my > favourite album by anyone; It rpoves that you don't need an 8 piece > supergroup and 10kw of amplification to kick but! FR was simply LWG in > glorius technicolour. > I have to agree with the War against silence review of 1000 kisses. If only > the reviewer had heard her live or some of the bootleg stuff. PG needn't > have used the three tracks he suggested shouldn't be there, she has a large > pile of much better songs than were found on some of 1000 kisses. > You never get what you wan't and Forgiveness are my two favourite tracks, > the former having more sheer grunt than Limp Bizkit, Papa Roach and Marylin > Manson put together and multiplied to the power of their collective IQs (or > shoes sizes, does not make much difference!). > > EM > What technical Flaws? It's one of the best, cleanest, best produced records > i've heard. No double tracking, chorusing, fading, or out of place slide > guitars, clarinets, accordions. Just the singer, the instruments and a > couple of microphones > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org [mailto:owner-mad-mission@smoe.org]On > Behalf Of nblomgren > Sent: 30 July 2002 20:44 > To: mad-mission@smoe.org > Subject: Re: MM: In defense of FR > > > Me, too. The range of emotion on FR, not to mention vocal range, is > astonishing. It was the first thing I heard of Patty's, with LWG shortly > after -- as soon as I could get to the record store :) > > LWG has the bitterest song I've _ever_ heard -- You Never Get What You Want > -- and though there are a few technical flaws (it was a demo, after all), > it was a revelation hearing these songs come from the same woman who did > Flaming Red. > > I'm not as enthralled with 1000 Kisses. The lyrics, as usual, never cease > to surprise, but there's not the same kind of energy. I've been playing it > in the car, working on accepting it for what it is, rather than comparing > it to SB/FR/LWG, but it just hasn't switched on that obsessive, > must-listen-to-this-again feeling that the earlier albums have. > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:46:45 -0400 From: "Willms, Gregory J." Subject: RE: MM: In defense of FR Gerardo? >Patty Griffin - best female voice around!! >(You guys don't want to know who my favorite male is, no one would read my >email ever again.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:59:25 +0100 From: "Matthew Smith" Subject: MM: FW Lori's favourite Male voice conundrum Neil Diamond? Barry Manilow? - -----Original Message----- From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org [mailto:owner-mad-mission@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Willms, Gregory J. Sent: 31 July 2002 17:47 To: 'Lori Garvey'; 'Mad-Mission' Subject: RE: MM: In defense of FR Gerardo? >Patty Griffin - best female voice around!! >(You guys don't want to know who my favorite male is, no one would read my >email ever again.) Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:54:10 -0400 From: Dome93@aol.com Subject: MM: Glenn MacDonald's response to me Hi All, I wrote a letter to Glenn regarding his review and he responded to me today. I've included the last paragraph here for you because it includes links to his previous reviews of Patty's albums. Elizabeth Anyway, thanks for writing. I'm glad Patty has supporters who are willing to stick up for her against perceived attacks. I know you're thinking of me as the enemy right now, but I think of myself as a passionate Patty Griffin fan who is unwilling to settle for her not living up to her potential. So we may disagree about what that potential is, but it's not because I don't care. I don't know if anybody on the mailing list posted the links to my reviews of LWG and FR, but if not, here they are: Flaming Red: http://www.furia.com/twas/twas0183.html#entry1 Living With Ghosts: http://www.furia.com/twas/twas0079.html#entry1 glenn ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V6 #280 *********************************