From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V6 #278 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.pattygriffin.net/PattyInConcert.html * OR * go to http://www.atorecords.com * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V6 #___ gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Tuesday, July 30 2002 Volume 06 : Number 278 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: MM: Re: In defense of FR [Venusstar1234@aol.com] MM: FR ["Guy S. Kaiser" ] Re: MM: In defense of FR [nblomgren ] Re: MM: FR [xenacrazy@att.net] MM: Re: in defense of FR ["Steve Ramirez" ] MM: Flaming Red Controvery [Jerry Skomer ] Re: MM: Flaming Red Controvery [Chris Negrin ] Re: MM: Flaming Red Controvery [xenacrazy@att.net] MM: RE: In defense of FR [amber bass-patterson ] RE: MM: In defense of FR ["Howes, Meghan" ] MM: RE: RE: In defense of FR ["Willms, Gregory J." ] MM: RE: Re: RE: RE: In defense of FR ["Willms, Gregory J." ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 15:37:09 EDT From: Venusstar1234@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: Re: In defense of FR One of my favorite things about being on this list is reading the varied perspectives of fans across the world. I value the diversity in opinion. Melody ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 15:35:30 -0400 From: "Guy S. Kaiser" Subject: MM: FR That's what I miss most with 1000kisses. It could use a Blue Sky. FR is every bit as good as LWG. But if you're stuck in the - 6 strings 1 voice ideal - that's fine too. You could put my name on FR, if you can only put out one CD you can hardly do better. - -guy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:44:14 -0500 From: nblomgren Subject: Re: MM: In defense of FR Me, too. The range of emotion on FR, not to mention vocal range, is astonishing. It was the first thing I heard of Patty's, with LWG shortly after -- as soon as I could get to the record store :) LWG has the bitterest song I've _ever_ heard -- You Never Get What You Want - -- and though there are a few technical flaws (it was a demo, after all), it was a revelation hearing these songs come from the same woman who did Flaming Red. I'm not as enthralled with 1000 Kisses. The lyrics, as usual, never cease to surprise, but there's not the same kind of energy. I've been playing it in the car, working on accepting it for what it is, rather than comparing it to SB/FR/LWG, but it just hasn't switched on that obsessive, must-listen-to-this-again feeling that the earlier albums have. At 02:25 PM 7/30/02, Dave Short wrote: > I disagree wholeheartedly. I enjoy all her albums, but FR is my > favorite Patty album (excepting live performances). The energy and > intensity of LWG is there, but unleashed in ELECTRIC (dylan at newport, > anyone?). The raucous FR smacks you in the face at the opening and holds > me rapt throughout. I couldn't live without the punch of "Tony" or the > tugging world-weariness of "Mary". I can't imagine that Patty is less > than extremely proud of that record, and I'm with her on that count. >Dave > "Willms, Gregory J." wrote: I agree with > some of what he says, but I think he's too blinded by LWG to >fully appreciate 1000 Kisses. I don't think it matters how you slice it, FR >is not worthy of having Patty's name on it. >Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:52:28 +0000 From: xenacrazy@att.net Subject: Re: MM: FR And considering how many songs she's written, and how few she's put on cd, I think she'd have to really like a song if it's on her albums. (but then again, the Evangeline made cd sucks besides her song ;) ) - -Lisa > That's what I miss most with 1000kisses. It could use a Blue Sky. FR is every > bit as good as LWG. But if you're stuck in the - 6 strings 1 voice ideal - > that's fine too. > > You could put my name on FR, if you can only put out one CD you can hardly do > better. > > -guy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:19:08 +0000 From: "Steve Ramirez" Subject: MM: Re: in defense of FR Have to agree, there's substance to FR. While not my favorite overall (I stick to LWG as my overall fave, as it just *invaded* me when I first listened to it), FR has um... MARY. How can you listen to that song and not get some kind of chill? Flaming Red itself is a good track, though I'm partial to the live, bluesy version, it still rocks. As does Wiggly Fingers. I also prefer Tony in the live version... but the album overall is a good one. Maybe not spectacular compared to 1000 Kisses, or Living With Ghosts... but it's still Patty, and it's songwriting that is at least two steps above what you'll hear on most radio stations. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 13:29:14 -0700 From: Jerry Skomer Subject: MM: Flaming Red Controvery Well, everyone is entitled to their musical tastes about Patty's music. It is a mystery to me why everyone isn't ga-ga (did I spell that correctly?) over Patty. But there you have it. As for Flaming Red, in the past Patty has always thought of herself as a *rocker* and as Dave Marsh said in his article "she convinced the hell out of a lot of us with her second album." I think Patty's genius is precisely because she has "range." She appeals to the folk crowd, she appeals to country listeners, she can hang with the rock and rollers. A lot of us, whose musical tastes are broad, like everything she does. But to say that FR shouldn't have Patty's name is less than open-minded. I find it hard to say that "Mary" or "Goodbye" wouldn't have been appropriate just as they are for either LWG (well maybe stripped down versions) or even 1000 Kisses. I and others have said this before: Patty purposely opens FR with the raunchy title track to wake up her audience to her range. You don't have to like it, but she knows EXACTLY what she is doing. And to say FR shouldn't have her name on it is pretty arrogant. Finally, the MM who likes Wiggly Fingers and Blue Sky understands the essence of that CD. Wiggly Fingers has some of the best lyrics Patty has ever written, in my humble opinion. And Blue Sky is a real artistic triumph. Patty starts off the song with hard-driving, screechy, male-oriented beat and guitar work. Her singing is pretty much drowned out by the *noise*, but the melody and lyrics are compelling and Patty's voice slowly but surely subdues the song's introduction. And by the end, her voice is soaring beautifully over everything, blending the male and female elements perfectly. It is a tour de force, a yin/yang balance that few artists are able to achieve. So there. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 13:37:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Negrin Subject: Re: MM: Flaming Red Controvery I'm with you 100%. i'm going to leave a copy of your entire email below just in case some wants to read it a second time ;) - --Chris Jerry Skomer wrote: Well, everyone is entitled to their musical tastes about Patty's music. It is a mystery to me why everyone isn't ga-ga (did I spell that correctly?) over Patty. But there you have it. As for Flaming Red, in the past Patty has always thought of herself as a *rocker* and as Dave Marsh said in his article "she convinced the hell out of a lot of us with her second album." I think Patty's genius is precisely because she has "range." She appeals to the folk crowd, she appeals to country listeners, she can hang with the rock and rollers. A lot of us, whose musical tastes are broad, like everything she does. But to say that FR shouldn't have Patty's name is less than open-minded. I find it hard to say that "Mary" or "Goodbye" wouldn't have been appropriate just as they are for either LWG (well maybe stripped down versions) or even 1000 Kisses. I and others have said this before: Patty purposely opens FR with the raunchy title track to wake up her audience to her range. You don't have to like it, but she knows EXACTLY what she is doing. And to say FR shouldn't have her name on it is pretty arrogant. Finally, the MM who likes Wiggly Fingers and Blue Sky understands the essence of that CD. Wiggly Fingers has some of the best lyrics Patty has ever written, in my humble opinion. And Blue Sky is a real artistic triumph. Patty starts off the song with hard-driving, screechy, male-oriented beat and guitar work. Her singing is pretty much drowned out by the *noise*, but the melody and lyrics are compelling and Patty's voice slowly but surely subdues the song's introduction. And by the end, her voice is soaring beautifully over everything, blending the male and female elements perfectly. It is a tour de force, a yin/yang balance that few artists are able to achieve. So there. Jerry Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:57:17 +0000 From: xenacrazy@att.net Subject: Re: MM: Flaming Red Controvery Well said! What makes her even more amazing is that she can sing any kind of song and it sounds great. She doesn't have to stick to one style, out of fear that she'd sound bad. She makes any song work. - -XC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 15:54:09 -0500 From: amber bass-patterson Subject: MM: RE: In defense of FR FR rocks. I can't get enough of it on road trips, cranked up with the windows down. My 3 yo loves it too. It's her favorite patty album and she'll tell anyone who asks! amber "Through Movement We Find Health" The Nia Technique "Willms, Gregory J." wrote: I agree with some of what he says, but I think he's too blinded by LWG to fully appreciate 1000 Kisses. I don't think it matters how you slice it, FR is not worthy of having Patty's name on it. Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 13:57:33 -0600 From: "Howes, Meghan" Subject: RE: MM: In defense of FR This is so interesting... I can't seem to stop listening to 1000 Kisses. There's something about the quality of the material on that album that often makes me catch my breath--I never tire of it--which for me is rare. LWG had the same appeal to me, but I don't recall having the same visceral response--close, though. I used to bake, the late night croissant shift, and listen to LWG over and over again. There I was in this small bakery in Montana, belting out Poor Man's House and Forgiveness and Time Will Do the Talking as flour flew everywhere and the smell of fresh croissants joined Patty's voice, wafting out into the Missoula late night air... Man, I love Patty Griffin. MSH - -----Original Message----- From: nblomgren [mailto:nblom@mindspring.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:44 PM To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: Re: MM: In defense of FR Me, too. The range of emotion on FR, not to mention vocal range, is astonishing. It was the first thing I heard of Patty's, with LWG shortly after -- as soon as I could get to the record store :) LWG has the bitterest song I've _ever_ heard -- You Never Get What You Want - -- and though there are a few technical flaws (it was a demo, after all), it was a revelation hearing these songs come from the same woman who did Flaming Red. I'm not as enthralled with 1000 Kisses. The lyrics, as usual, never cease to surprise, but there's not the same kind of energy. I've been playing it in the car, working on accepting it for what it is, rather than comparing it to SB/FR/LWG, but it just hasn't switched on that obsessive, must-listen-to-this-again feeling that the earlier albums have. At 02:25 PM 7/30/02, Dave Short wrote: > I disagree wholeheartedly. I enjoy all her albums, but FR is my > favorite Patty album (excepting live performances). The energy and > intensity of LWG is there, but unleashed in ELECTRIC (dylan at newport, > anyone?). The raucous FR smacks you in the face at the opening and holds > me rapt throughout. I couldn't live without the punch of "Tony" or the > tugging world-weariness of "Mary". I can't imagine that Patty is less > than extremely proud of that record, and I'm with her on that count. >Dave > "Willms, Gregory J." wrote: I agree with > some of what he says, but I think he's too blinded by LWG to >fully appreciate 1000 Kisses. I don't think it matters how you slice it, FR >is not worthy of having Patty's name on it. >Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 17:41:18 -0400 From: "Willms, Gregory J." Subject: MM: RE: RE: In defense of FR Incedentally, this is, in my opinion, the perfect rebuttal to my original post. I don't like the album, they do... and we're all still happy! FR rocks. I can't get enough of it on road trips, cranked up with the windows down. My 3 yo loves it too. It's her favorite patty album and she'll tell anyone who asks! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:49:49 -0700 (PDT) From: beccasean@peoplepc.com Subject: Re: MM: RE: RE: In defense of FR No worries Greg, I too have been the subject of disdain on the list becuase though I like the songs on FR, I much prefer them live. I can aount on one hand how many times I have reached for FR over LWG, 1000K, LFML, or one of the bootlegs. I can't help it. Sean On Tue, 30 July 2002, "Willms, Gregory J." wrote: > > Incedentally, this is, in my opinion, the perfect > rebuttal to my original > post. I don't like the album, they do... and we're all > still happy! ________________________________________________ PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:22:30 EDT From: Violetbuca@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: RE: tour compilation Hello everyone-I second everyone's request! I am also new to the list and would love a compilation or whatever is being distributed along the branches!! Peace.Nickie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:30:38 EDT From: Violetbuca@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: Flaming Red Controversy there are songs on each album that appeal to whatever mood i may be in at the time, Tony on FR is validating and amazing , LWG provides a perfect backdrop to daydreaming and inspiration, i haven't stpooed listening to 10,000 kisses for 2 weeks now, whether rain is letting me express, or making pies is giving me hope for old age...i guess my point is, each song on each album has some memory or feeling attatched to it for me, Patty has really been the soundtrack to alot of important events in my life, so it's hard to say which one is better, worse. Peace.nickie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:31:56 -0400 From: "Lisa Zwick" Subject: MM: Re: RE: RE: In defense of FR That's not the point, tho. You're entitled to like whatever music you want, but it's just harsh to say the cd doesn't deserve to have her name on it. Whether you like it or not. She put hard work into it, and if she's happy with it, then it deserves to have her name on it. - -Lisa - ------ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Willms, Gregory J." To: "'amber bass-patterson '" ; "''Dave Short' '" ; Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 5:41 PM Subject: MM: RE: RE: In defense of FR > Incedentally, this is, in my opinion, the perfect rebuttal to my original > post. I don't like the album, they do... and we're all still happy! > > > FR rocks. I can't get enough of it on road trips, cranked up with the > windows down. My 3 yo loves it too. It's her favorite patty album and > she'll tell anyone who asks! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:01:02 -0400 From: "Willms, Gregory J." Subject: MM: RE: Re: RE: RE: In defense of FR Harsh or not, it's an opinion, and if you can't handle it, then you can go fly a kite. Let me be me and I'll let you be you. I'm sick of this PC bullshit where everyone has to agree and be friends all the time. That's not the way things work and it's downright unnatural. What do you care if I make a harsh comment? I didn't say it about you, did I? People call me arrogant but I'm just voicing my opinion. If I were to post and say that I could record a better album... well, that would be arrogant. How's that for harsh? >That's not the point, tho. You're entitled to like whatever music you >want, >but it's just harsh to say the cd doesn't deserve to have her name on >it. >Whether you like it or not. She put hard work into it, and if she's >happy >with it, then it deserves to have her name on it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:13:29 -0400 From: "* Darcie *" Subject: MM: Re: In defense of FR And here I thought I was the only one who would pick Flaming Red over any of PG's other albums any day. It is a masterpiece. ~darc http://www.darcieminerband.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Short Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:36 PM To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: In defense of FR I disagree wholeheartedly. I enjoy all her albums, but FR is my favorite Patty album (excepting live performances). The energy and intensity of LWG is there, but unleashed in ELECTRIC (dylan at newport, anyone?). The raucous FR smacks you in the face at the opening and holds me rapt throughout. I couldn't live without the punch of "Tony" or the tugging world-weariness of "Mary". I can't imagine that Patty is less than extremely proud of that record, and I'm with her on that count. Dave "Willms, Gregory J." wrote: I agree with some of what he says, but I think he's too blinded by LWG to fully appreciate 1000 Kisses. I don't think it matters how you slice it, FR is not worthy of having Patty's name on it. Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live betterGet more from the Web. 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