From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V6 #40 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.quackquack.net/pattyg * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com * then click "tour" and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V4 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Thursday, February 7 2002 Volume 06 : Number 040 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: Boots, Burns, and Compilations [diamondmask@juno.com] MM: RE: Boots, Burns, and Compilations ["alan.teather" ] MM: Patty live 2/6 [BClark2000@aol.com] MM: My Own $.02 On Five Different Threads [Richard Challen ] MM: Patty at Ryman #2 [BClark2000@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 04:46:39 -0800 From: diamondmask@juno.com Subject: MM: Boots, Burns, and Compilations I don't see anything wrong with making a compilation tape or disc for a friend. Burning an entire CD is one thing, but giving samples of the artists can only be good for the artist in the long run if your friend likes it. A huge part of Dave Matthews Band success is there early on attitude about recording at their shows. I have some wonderful DMB boots. I also own every CD they have put out. Same with Patty. Same with David Wilcox. Same with Jonatha Brooke. If you think the artist is making a fortune on their CD sales, they ain't! The record company makes the lions share, and since they put up all the money, perhaps they should. But remember that next time you're looking at a $18 CD in some store. Any artist who doesn't have their own website to sell their own CD's are missing the boat. Jonatha Brooke is a great example of doing it right. She gets the lion share. Leo Kottke comes right out and says it at his shows....buy the CD's, keep my label happy. Come to my shows to make me happy. He openly admits that most of his income is derived from his live shows, not his CD sales. That is why he tours as heavily as he does. With the internet and MP3, the artists have lost some control, if not all, of their music. So have the record labels. Their stance is almost laughable. The best thing they could do would be to reduce the cost of CD's to around $11. Even $10. The quality is better than MP3, you get all the artwork and stuff, and it's affordable. But at the current prices, the labels might as well be telling people to go to the internet and get the stuff for free. john in sumner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 13:49:08 -0000 From: "alan.teather" Subject: MM: RE: Boots, Burns, and Compilations If you think $18 is expensive try paying the equivalent of $27 like we do over here in the UK !!! I would love to be able to get albums for $10 or even $15. This would virtually double or triple my available money to purchase cd's and or make more money available for gigs. Mind you we have better beer over here! Peace to all, Ol'Rhinohide - -----Original Message----- From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org [mailto:owner-mad-mission@smoe.org]On Behalf Of diamondmask@juno.com Sent: 07 February 2002 12:47 To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: Boots, Burns, and Compilations I don't see anything wrong with making a compilation tape or disc for a friend. Burning an entire CD is one thing, but giving samples of the artists can only be good for the artist in the long run if your friend likes it. A huge part of Dave Matthews Band success is there early on attitude about recording at their shows. I have some wonderful DMB boots. I also own every CD they have put out. Same with Patty. Same with David Wilcox. Same with Jonatha Brooke. If you think the artist is making a fortune on their CD sales, they ain't! The record company makes the lions share, and since they put up all the money, perhaps they should. But remember that next time you're looking at a $18 CD in some store. Any artist who doesn't have their own website to sell their own CD's are missing the boat. Jonatha Brooke is a great example of doing it right. She gets the lion share. Leo Kottke comes right out and says it at his shows....buy the CD's, keep my label happy. Come to my shows to make me happy. He openly admits that most of his income is derived from his live shows, not his CD sales. That is why he tours as heavily as he does. With the internet and MP3, the artists have lost some control, if not all, of their music. So have the record labels. Their stance is almost laughable. The best thing they could do would be to reduce the cost of CD's to around $11. Even $10. The quality is better than MP3, you get all the artwork and stuff, and it's affordable. But at the current prices, the labels might as well be telling people to go to the internet and get the stuff for free. john in sumner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:04:24 EST From: DM13DM@aol.com Subject: MM: Re: Used CD's In a message dated 2/7/02 1:37:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, davelewis@hfx.eastlink.ca writes: << BTW... the other thing that is totally not cool is Columbia House. The artists don't make a single cent off the (essentially counterfeit) CD's that those music clubs sell. >> The artists make money on the CD's that you actually purchase at full price from these clubs. The 12 free CD's (or whatever) you receive are considered promotional copies and the artist is not compensated for them. It is a shame! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 12:03:34 -0500 From: "Luca, Joseph" Subject: MM: "1000 Kisses"--a peer's review Howdy- An outstanding singer/songwriter with whom I occasionally correspond has heard an advance copy of "1000 Kisses." I've promised to keep the artist's identity secret, but here are some snippets of his/her snapshot review: "...it is amazing...in my opinion better than the first 2...as magical as LWG but produced in such a way that the songs are so real...they creep into your body...I love it...she is the best...'making pies' (is) hands down the best song about dessert-snacks ever written...one of the best (tracks) is "tomorrow night" which sounds like it was written in the 30s...run out and get this asap...buy 2 - one for the car...." I'd say that's a pretty enthusiastic recommendation. I can't wait! Ciao, Joe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 18:36:18 -0500 From: "Stephen VanKerckhove" Subject: MM: racing in the street can anyone tell me what the lyrics are or tell me where I can find the lyrics to "Racing in the Street" off the Calvin College Show Patty did in April of 200. any help would be great. Thanks a ton, Steve, a lurckerGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 19:07:36 EST From: BClark2000@aol.com Subject: MM: Patty live 2/6 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 20:33:47 -0500 From: Richard Challen Subject: MM: My Own $.02 On Five Different Threads Hey all, Whew!! Don't wanna say nuthin' more about used CDs, but here's a few opinions on the other threads flying around: 1) "Most artists make all their money off touring." That's exactly right. A perfect example is Ben Harper, who sells out live shows in 3,000-seat venues despite never selling 1,000,000 with any album. But his fans are dedicated and his day *will* come. Same thing applies to Richard Thompson, who travels solo and plays small halls (usually 200-300 seats in the U.S.) but gets around $20 a ticket and doesn't split any profits with a band and road crew... so do the math. Patty is probably a good example of the latter situation. 2) "So why doesn't Patty tour more?" Good question. Wish I could've seen her more than once in all these years! I think it's 'cause a) she hasn't had a new album to promote since Flaming Red, b) she doesn't really like touring that much, and c) the songwriting revenue from her compositions keep her going. For the Dixie Chicks album alone, I think "Fly" sold 4 million or so? And Patty gets 1/12 of the songwriting royalties since she was sole songwriter of 1 of the album's 12 songs. So again, do the math... That's several hundred thousand right there, which can help out while your album stays in limbo. 3) "Ani DiFranco makes more..." Ani actually owns her own label, which is kinda like Patty owning A&M AND recording for them. So yeah, Ani can put out any music anytime she wants, and she gets nearly all the money back, but... She also has to pay for her own recording costs, promotional costs, and the salaries of everyone who works for her. Which is why the first few Ani records were recorded very inexpensively... She probably didn't have a lot of money on hand to spend! In that respect, she's just like a lot of other totally independent artists and bands, which brings up my next point... 4) "The Internet will hopefully level the playing field..." Yeah, maybe, but there will ALWAYS be a need for big labels with big radio/TV connections and the power that lots of money brings. For instance, how many of you have heard of my band, Backyard Green? Probably no one, right? Yet we have a website (www.backyardgreen.com) that's just like Patty's, or Ani's, or Limp Bizkit's, or whoever. But we have no radio airplay (save a scattered college station), no print media (save a few local blurbs in Charlotte, NC), and no national touring (because we have day jobs and we can't afford to right now). So finding us on the Web is like the proverbial needle in a haystack. But I guarantee, if MTV played our song ONCE on TRL while flashing our name in big letters the whole time, our website traffic (and CD sales) would increase dramatically!! Bottom line: The Web allows you access to a huge audience in theory, but not in reality. An artist selling their albums directly over the Web, rather than through a label, works best when the artist is well known and has built up a huge fanbase via the aforementioned major label (i.e. David Bowie, Pete Townshend). Prince has already used the idea of fans donating money to him in exchange for "perks" on his own website. (I think it's $9.95 a month and you supposedly get 'secret downloads, first crack at tickets, and after-show passes,' or something.) And yes, Patty could do the same, but I'm not even sure if she has amassed the fanbase to pull it off yet! Even if the production and release costs of her album were only $100,000 (pretty low by major-label standards), and if she raised the money by asking for $10 donations on her website, that's still 10,000 donations! A little bit bigger than this mailing list, I think... I guess my long-winded point is... For better or worse, Patty still needs a label to back her up and get her music out there where people can hear it. (And where her fans can see her!) Ideally, this label will be artist-friendly, dedicated, and willing to do whatever it takes to get her music across. I don't think A&M was the one for her... I think ATO will be a much better fit. We shall see. see ya, rICH Listen to Rich: Check out the official website of Backyard Green, featuring tour dates, lyrics, pictures, and sound clips from the new album: http://www.backyardgreen.com And be sure to check out Rich's solo website at: http://listen.to/rich.com http://www.geocities.com/richardchallen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 21:00:39 -0500 From: Richard Challen Subject: MM: Boots RE: > >> There's a "Patty Griffin, live and rare" cd for sale again on ebay. > Didn't ebay put a stop to selling these bootlegs? << > > Interesting . . . hmmm . . . in light of the liberal attitude here regarding used CDs, why should it be wrong to sell the boots on ebay? It's not taking any money out of Patty's pocket. The CD is not commercially available, so it's not like someone's NOT buying the "official" version. Someone's just sharing Patty's music, right? What's the difference between a "Not for resale" disc being sold at a record store and a bootleg being sold at auction? Without speaking for Patty, I don't think she's down with the boots at ALL. But that's for her and her lawyer to decide. Personally, I own a bunch of boots (the REAL ones that used to come from Italy, KTS and such) from artists where I also own all their albums AND their import singles AND compilations with their songs. 'Cause I'm obsessive like that. Recently, I also have a bunch of CD-R boots that I have never paid money for... I merely trade with others on the Net. Agree or disagree if you must, but here's the criteria that I (and eBay) hold to any "bootleg" auction: 1) If you contact the seller and determine this is a REAL bootleg (i.e. it was manufactured in a pressing plant by some overseas company who found a copyright loophole), then yes, this is basically a used CD. It's "grey area," and you can argue bootlegs for days, but the seller did, at one point, pay $25-30 for this CD and should be able to sell it on eBay and recoup some of the cost if he wants. 2) If the seller doesn't explicitly say this is NOT a CD-R, there's a 99.9% chance that IT'S A CD-R. Meaning he can keep burning copies for $.50 apiece and sell them on eBay for $20 apiece (basically turning himself into a one-man bootlegging company!) until he gets shut down. You can't go into a used CD store and find CD-Rs of albums being sold as "used CDs." If you do, call the RIAA and the owner of the store will be going to jail very quickly. So why should we allow anyone to sell CD-Rs on eBay? This isn't a "used CD" debate... This is a "vendor on a Manhattan street selling pirated CD-Rs for $5 before the cops show up" debate. And FYI, most of the original bootleg companies were prosecuted years back in an FBI sting. They lured them onto American soil with free Disneyland tickets (I'm not making this up!!) and then arrested them all on bootlegging charges. So yeah, making and distributing bootlegs for profit is pretty much always illegal anywhere in the U.S. Now, maybe this guy is selling his Patty boot from Italy?... - --rICH Listen to Rich: Check out the official website of Backyard Green, featuring tour dates, lyrics, pictures, and sound clips from the new album: http://www.backyardgreen.com And be sure to check out Rich's solo website at: http://listen.to/rich.com http://www.geocities.com/richardchallen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 21:42:54 EST From: BClark2000@aol.com Subject: MM: Patty at Ryman #2 Sorry about the earlier incomplete email. Hit the send button by mistake. Saw Patty last night at The Ryman, as opening act for Steve Earle. Benefit concert for a Tenn. group against capital punishment. Probably a 3/4 crowd there. Patty opened with Lancio on guitar and only played 7 songs. I'm fairly new to her stuff so don't know all song names: 1. Not sure of song name; one of first lines was "The way I fly"; other line "hands work the machinery"; never heard this song before. 2. Again, don't know song name, chorus was "Useless Desires" introduced by PG: "I've been real nervous about playing here so to continue that feeling we're going to do a new song". Awesome, clearly the best song she played. 3. Flaming Red: started with acoustic guitar, very bluesy, then Lancio switched to electric guitar. 4. "Falling Down" 5. "Top of the World" introduced by PG: I've made four albums and am 2 for 2 on getting them released. On April 9 I'm finally going to move ahead, 3 to 2. This is a song from one of the lost albums" 6. Steve Earle song Ellis Unit One : superb response from crowd. 7. Not sure: chorus was "Ten Million Miles"; a very short, poetically rhyming song. She seemed very shy, didn't talk much, nervous. She did not come back out to sing with Steve like she did with Emmylou last summer. I drove to Nashville from Atlanta just to see her and she was worth it. The song "Useless Desires" was just unbelievable. She was pumped up and into Flaming Red and it was cool to see her interpretation of it with just the two of them playing; it is not one of my favorite songs of hers but I really liked the live version. Top of the World is perhaps my favorite of hers and her voice was goosebump-inducing on it. Steve Earle played the entire Guitar Town album with most of the artists who were on the original studio version. He was fabulous, but has a real world-weariness about him, almost curmudgeonly. Patty certainly didn't disappoint this fan, just wished she'd played more. The Nashville Tennesseean review of the show is below. Bert Clark Earle goes home again to 'Guitar Town'By PETER COOPER Staff Writer In an electrifying, Wednesday night Ryman Auditorium concert that proved at once familiar and unique, grizzled contemporary country expatriate Steve Earle revisited the songs, arrangements and sequencing of his landmark 1986 Guitar Town album. ''That was a trip,'' Earle muttered after completing the 10-song Guitar Town set. Indeed, the show offered a half-hour excursion to a time when roots-rock and tough twang were heard in Nashville as fresh and commercially viable, not as edgily anachronistic. Much, of course, has changed since 1986: Earle will never be so desperate, so wired, so greasy, so hopeful, hungry or green again. Earle's voice was permanently roughened years ago by a policeman's billy club (really, no joke). And the stocky, bearded, bespectacled man in the Ryman spotlight bore scant resemblance to the younger, thinner man whose success with Guitar Town helped him to a place in a late 1980s Playgirl magazine list of the ''10 sexiest male country stars.'' But the songs remain direct windows to the era Earle calls country music's ''great credibility scare.'' And the songs haven't weathered a bit. Neither have the arrangements, with the exception of some period-piece synthesizer sounds that now seem to unnecessarily clutter ballads like Little Rock 'n' Roller. Wednesday, Guitar Town arranger/guitarist/associate producer Richard Bennett played his original parts with grit and soul, augmented by Mike McAdam's aggressive six-string attack (McAdam also played mandolin at the show). The two guitarists wove rhythms and melodies in and around each other's parts, building soundscapes that were driven home by pianist John Jarvis, padded by steel guitar man Gary Morse and under-girded by the rhythm section of drummer Harry Stinson and bass man Glenn Worf. Stinson's spot-perfect harmonies rode about Earle's well-sedimented but still-powerful voice. For his part, Earle sang with suitable urgency, and his enunciation was much improved from a slurry performance at last summer's River Stages festival. Even after the band left the stage, his solo-acoustic set (featuring more modern material) was full of power and no small measure of grace. The sorry lover's tale of Valentine's Day and the bracing Billy Austin were more than enough proof that Guitar Town is a well-aged gem but not a career-defining work. The only disappointing aspect of the concert was its attendance. Plenty of seats were empty at a show that should have been a slam-dunk sellout. Ticket proceeds will go to benefit The Park Center, a non-profit organization that assists adults with a history of mental illness. The Center is a favored charity of Universal South senior partner (and Guitar Town co-producer) Tony Brown, who planned the night's entertainment. In addition to performing an emotionally charged version of Earle's Ellis Unit One, opening act Patty Griffin played several other songs not contained on her two albums. Atop guitarist Doug Lancio's clouds of sound, Griffin sang in a voice thin, strong, pretty and gymnastic. Highlights of her set included the punkish acoustic thrust of Flaming Red and the unendingly melodic Top of the World. Peter Cooper writes about music for the Tennessean. He may be reached at 259-8220 or via e-mail at pcooper@tennessean.com. ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V6 #40 ********************************