From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V5 #204 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.quackquack.net/pattyg * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com * then click "tour" and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V4 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Thursday, August 16 2001 Volume 05 : Number 204 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: MM: To what degree are the songs lost? [Mooodeee@aol.com] MM: The whining on this list ["donhenn" ] MM: jonatha brooke/bruce cockburn [Kerry ] Re: MM: Jonatha Brooke [BLUEHEN@webtv.net] [none] ["Aimee ..." ] MM: Re: MM Re :Douglas J Hitzel ["donhenn" ] MM: Re: reply from patty's label [Kristen ] MM: tics [Bernie Filipski ] MM: Re: To what degree are the songs lost? ["Laura Taylor" ] MM: Patty doing Jonatha [diamondmask@juno.com] MM: Patty doing Jonatha [diamondmask@juno.com] Re: MM: jonatha brooke/bruce cockburn ["Randall Stevens" > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:37:03 -0400 From: "donhenn" Subject: MM: The whining on this list MMers & Timothy , Gee , Timothy , it seems to me that if Jenna was whining about the record companies, you were whining just as hard about her , & "all of us" , who act as though Patty and the rest of the world is owed some sort of career. So I guess you're right ! May I whine a bit now ? I always like phrases like "honestly people , ...". Thanks for letting us in on it. That's almost as good as "everyone knows , ......." Venting your criticisms toward a corporation is not nearly as deleterious to our society as doing the same towards individuals when they have not offended you personally. Actually , I believe (rather than "everyone knows" or "honestly people") that corporations should be vigorously criticized for the kind of bottom line mentality that makes non-capitalist undemocratic systems look attractive to so many people. As far as "nobody benefits from these kinds of interactions with label people" ; hopefully , it benefits those companies who realize that alienating many potential customers , by treating talented artists like "properties" , is not good for their long-term profit picture. If I see a CD , or anything else that is a marginal purchase , the name Interscope/Universal will make my decision for me. It is my hope that current Interscope /Universal decision makers will someday join those at Xerox , who gave away a great deal of the major advances in PCs to Apple , & those at IBM who focused on hardware b/c "that's where the money is" , & made Bill Gates the richest man in the world. I don't know who those people were at Xerox & IBM , but I'm sure that their peers in the field do. Must have walked ten million miles Think before you criticize Ten million miles Patty Griffin "Ten Million Miles" Don "Sometimes the whining on this list is unbelievable." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:02:12 -0400 From: Kerry Subject: MM: jonatha brooke/bruce cockburn > speaking of jonatha brooke... i saw her on conan o'brien not too long ago > and she was unbelievable. i've been meaning to get one of her cds, but i > don't know which to start with. i'm tempted to get the live album because i > couldn't believe how good she was live. but then i've heard that ten cent > wings is her favorite (closest to her heart, she said). any suggestions? > > scott > If you like what you heard on Conan, then get her new album. It's her densest, sonically speaking. Most of Jonatha's fans agree that 10 Cent Wings and Plumb are her best - both great, great albums - 'though she really has yet to make a weak one. Her live album is acoustic, mostly solo, so if you're tempted to get the live one based on her appearance with a band on Conan, be prepared for a contrast akin to picking up Living With Ghosts after falling for Flaming Red. In the sometimes-everything's-a-circle department...Jonatha Brooke is good friends with Bruce Cockburn, and it has just been announced that Patty will be adding backing vocals to a new song he's recording for inclusion on an upcoming best of release... Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:07:38 -0400 (EDT) From: BLUEHEN@webtv.net Subject: Re: MM: Jonatha Brooke There is a song on "Plumb" that is so stunning, if that were the only song she ever wrote, she would be my favorite artist........it's called "Inconsolable" a must hear! ~Patty Blee~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:32:04 -0400 From: "Aimee ..." Subject: [none] MMers- Now that Don and I have made nice... a question. This coming new release from Patty... We know that Doug Lancio is helping to produce. And we know its going to be called something like 10000 kisses? (is my memory close at all??) Do you think she'll release it on her own? Perhaps the recent spate of touring is to get some $$$ to record and produce said album? Will she back it with a big rowdy full band ala Flaming Red? Speculation anyone.... anyone... Bueller?? - -Aimee "She always liked midnight better than noon" - debra guy http://www.debraguy.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:38:50 -0400 From: "donhenn" Subject: MM: Re: MM Re :Douglas J Hitzel MMers , I have to comment again on this one. <"As I see it, Patty has it pretty good compared to many folk artists that are NOT as well off as her, but making do. And yet, it seems they are all making do, and they don't go weeping "why why why" to the press every chance they get"> The implication here , is that Patty is weeping "why why why" to the press. I think it's pretty clear that this is not the case. The only thing I've heard from her is the few statements during concerts that she's "having trouble" getting records released. At Cat's Cradle she said that she would hope that label execs could see her large enthusiastic crowd & realize that it's not only Britney Spears et al , that have audiences. I've seen or heard of nothing else she said publicly on the matter. I'm sure that the fans of other artists , who feel that THEIR icon is being treated shabbily , do their venting also. <"People on here need to learn"> This is even better than "everyone knows". Thank you for being here to teach us. . <"Some people will work their entire life (who are just as talented) to acheive half of what Patty has."> I'll never be convinced that anyone out there is "just as talented" as Patty Griffin. The only ones that I perceive even being in her league are already , or have been , established stars. Fiona Apple , Natalie Merchant , Joni Mitchell , Billie Holiday , Carole King et al. Peace & music. It's hard to know when To give up the fight The things you want That will never be right It's never rained Like it has tonight Before................ Patty Griffin "Rain" Don ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 04:13:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Kristen Subject: MM: Re: reply from patty's label Hi folks, I never post but have been reading for a long time. I've loved Patty's music since she showed up on the scene in '96. It sucks about Patty's label dropping her, but there is hope. I don't know what became of it, but when Patty performed in Charlottesville a couple of weeks ago, Dave Matthews was back in town for the day and he took Patty out for dinner to discuss her possibly signing on with his label, ATO Records. As I said, I don't know how the meeting went, but he did also make an appearance at the show later that night, and he is a big fan of hers ever since they met during the taping of Austin City Limits last year. I'm hoping all went well, and we'll see Patty's name showing up soon as a new artist on the ATO roster. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:36:20 -0400 From: Bernie Filipski Subject: MM: tics I have 1 extra ticket for both the Interlochen and A2 Ark shows. Bernie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:39:46 -0500 From: "Laura Taylor" Subject: MM: Re: To what degree are the songs lost? Hey, The record company owns the recordings of the songs, but not the actual songs itself.. Patty can rerecord all of the Silver Bell songs (or ones from earlier albums) if she wants to, she just can't release those recording and get any of that money. No record company in their right mind would give recordings back to an artist after releasing them from the label. They own those recordings not because there was some loophole in patty's contract that she or her lawyers didn9t see, but because they payed for them. They payed the engineers, the producer, bought the studio time, paid the photographer that took patty's picture, the printer, made copies of our precious little pre-release, ect. The point is, this is all all artist/label relationships work. Without her record label, we wouldn't even have Living With Ghosts or Flaming Red because Patty wouldn't have been able to afford it...... Ever. Now maybe she'll be able with our support and help and the small amount of success she's had so far to come out with some great albums after this. In fact I'm sure she'll will. But please, let's not continue to blame the record company when in reality it's just a bad situation for all. I'm sure there were people working at the label that loves patty's music and were sad to see her go - but it's a business that fact overrides all decisions. And just because it's a business doesn't mean they screwed her over. They also made the decision to sign her in the first place. - -lt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:47:46 -0500 From: "LouAnn Muhm" Subject: FW: MM: Reply from Patty's label Thought I posted this to the list last night, but I guess I accidentally just replied to the individual. Anyway... >Thank you, Miss LouAnn!! You're welcome. >I just wanted to give my two cents. I didn't think >that Miss LouAnn deserved to be bitched at like that. Did I get bitched at? I thought I was pretty much the one doing the bitching. Maybe there is a post that I missed somewhere. Anyway, it's late, and we should all head off to sweet dreams of a place where success is a direct result of excellence, and not of "marketability" or "placement" or whatever. A place where Patty Griffin and Ani DiFranco get major radio play...a place where the marshmallows never catch on fire...a place where people have a working grasp of the English language.... ZZZZzzzzzzzz........ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:46:28 -0700 From: diamondmask@juno.com Subject: MM: Patty doing Jonatha It would be great if Patty could do what Jonatha Brooke has done... Ah....she can do exactly what Jonatha did. There is nothing stopping her. And she obviously has just as many rabid fans as Jonatha does. Jonatha also reacts with her fans. She's "interactive". She'll answer questions on her website, provides tunings, lyrics, insights, and responses to comments. It makes all the difference in the world! The letter that was sent to the record company was doomed to fail the minute the name calling started. As one who has written an awful lot of letters to corporations, I've learned that if you state your case calmly, in order, with respect, you get an much better response than you would calling people names. Be that as it may.....Patty just needs to investigate. If she's really willing to work her ass off and give it her ALL, I think she could do it. I talked to Jonatha about her autographing all the CD's sold from her site for the "Live" release. She said it was a nightmare because all the CD's came from the maker wrapped in plastic, so there she is with other people, sitting on her living room floor, tearing off the plastic and her autographing each and every CD that was ordered from her site. What a bitch, but she did it! (No, Jonatha wasn't the "bitch", the plastic was, but I'm hoping you got my meaning). She even said it was worth it. It's the personal shit that will make people remember. john in sumner wa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:46:28 -0700 From: diamondmask@juno.com Subject: MM: Patty doing Jonatha It would be great if Patty could do what Jonatha Brooke has done... Ah....she can do exactly what Jonatha did. There is nothing stopping her. And she obviously has just as many rabid fans as Jonatha does. Jonatha also reacts with her fans. She's "interactive". She'll answer questions on her website, provides tunings, lyrics, insights, and responses to comments. It makes all the difference in the world! The letter that was sent to the record company was doomed to fail the minute the name calling started. As one who has written an awful lot of letters to corporations, I've learned that if you state your case calmly, in order, with respect, you get an much better response than you would calling people names. Be that as it may.....Patty just needs to investigate. If she's really willing to work her ass off and give it her ALL, I think she could do it. I talked to Jonatha about her autographing all the CD's sold from her site for the "Live" release. She said it was a nightmare because all the CD's came from the maker wrapped in plastic, so there she is with other people, sitting on her living room floor, tearing off the plastic and her autographing each and every CD that was ordered from her site. What a bitch, but she did it! (No, Jonatha wasn't the "bitch", the plastic was, but I'm hoping you got my meaning). She even said it was worth it. It's the personal shit that will make people remember. john in sumner wa ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 04:13:13 +0000 From: "Randall Stevens" Subject: Re: MM: jonatha brooke/bruce cockburn thanks for all the info. i did like what i saw on conan, but more the uummph she had in her performance rather than the band sound or particular arrangement to the song. i'm definitely more into the basic, honest, underproduced records. so, i'll probably pick up the live one, ten cent wings, or plumb. thanks again! - - scott check out my bands online! http://mp3.com/brooksfoundjakehttp://mp3.com/randallstevens >From: Kerry >To: "mad-mission@smoe.org" >Subject: MM: jonatha brooke/bruce cockburn >Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:02:12 -0400 > > > speaking of jonatha brooke... i saw her on conan o'brien not too long ago > > and she was unbelievable. i've been meaning to get one of her cds, but i > > don't know which to start with. i'm tempted to get the live album because i > > couldn't believe how good she was live. but then i've heard that ten cent > > wings is her favorite (closest to her heart, she said). any suggestions? > > > > scott > > > >If you like what you heard on Conan, then get her new album. It's her >densest, sonically speaking. Most of Jonatha's fans agree that 10 Cent >Wings and Plumb are her best - both great, great albums - 'though she >really has yet to make a weak one. Her live album is acoustic, mostly >solo, so if you're tempted to get the live one based on her appearance >with a band on Conan, be prepared for a contrast akin to picking up >Living With Ghosts after falling for Flaming Red. > >In the sometimes-everything's-a-circle department...Jonatha Brooke is >good friends with Bruce Cockburn, and it has just been announced that >Patty will be adding backing vocals to a new song he's recording for >inclusion on an upcoming best of release... > >Kerry - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:18:55 -0700 From: "Israelson Family" Subject: MM: To what degree are the songs lost? With the usual caveat that I have no first-hand knowledge about the inner workings of the recording "business," I'm shocked by the volume of posts that seem sympathetic to the label. I don't know any Interscope employees well enough to call them a-holes, but my opinion of their business decision is that it was wrong-headed and short-sighted. My impression of the situation is this: LWG and FR were probably both unprofitable, but their budgets were almost certainly modest. Therefore, the reputed weak sales of these discs were in no way endangering the viability of the company. In the meantime, Patty's songwriting and performing abilities were attracting attention throughout the industry, with high-profile artists covering her songs and moviemakers including her work in their soundtracks. Furthermore, a savvy company man would be well aware of the depth and quality of Patty's unreleased material (a lot of the LFML stuff, for instance). As I see it, this all adds up to Patty being a relatively unknown artist worth the moderate investment necessary to maintain a collaborative relationship. Patty may never make American Top 40, but as long as she continues to write, record and tour, her stature and her fan base cannot help but grow. I foresee a long and illustrious career for her, and somebody (just not Interscope Records) is going to make some bucks along the way, too. Larry I in LA - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laura Taylor" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 5:39 PM Subject: MM: Re: To what degree are the songs lost? > But please, let's not continue to blame the record > company when in reality it's just a bad situation for all. I'm sure there > were people working at the label that loves patty's music and were sad to > see her go - but it's a business that fact overrides all decisions. And > just because it's a business doesn't mean they screwed her over. They also > made the decision to sign her in the first place. ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V5 #204 *********************************