From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V5 #202 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.quackquack.net/pattyg * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com * then click "tour" and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V4 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Wednesday, August 15 2001 Volume 05 : Number 202 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: The Newton Boys ["donhenn" ] Re: MM: Reply from Patty's label [Zoeyism@aol.com] Re: MM: Reply from Patty's label [Sean ] MM: Reply from Patty's label ["donhenn" ] MM: Back from the dead [mateo ] MM: $orry [Danalee7@aol.com] Re: MM: Reply from Patty's label [timothy johnstone ] Re: MM: Reply from Patty's label ["Thomas H. Kercheval" Subject: MM: The Newton Boys MMers , As Mike mentioned , not a note from Patty in the movie. I guess some folks wouldn't know a great artist if they tripped over them. It's hard to listen to a hard , hard heart Beating close to mine Pounding up against the stone and steel Walls that I won't climb Patty Griffin "Rain" Don ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:08:21 EDT From: Zoeyism@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: Reply from Patty's label I just thought I'd let everyone on the list read this. I wrote to Patty's label about a month ago and today I received a reply from the label. The one word that the label wrote back appears above my letter, it pretty much sums up the attitude of the label, and to be honest I can't beleive that it was written. My letter was written in a whirl wind of irritation towards the industry so I appologize if my e-mail to the company was a little too scalding. $orry. I'm appauled at what decisions are being made about album releases at your >record label. At the very most all that can be said about the morons running >your company is that they've mastered the use of their opposable thumbs. If >you don't hear radio friendly tracks on Patty Griffins, Silver Bell, does >that mean that you need to clean out your ears? Are they compacted with the >sludge of today's top ten, crotch grabbing, talentless teen pop stars. Do >you really want to go down in flames after their fifteen minutes are up? If >their is nothing releasable on Patty's album, in your incredibly limited and >pea brained opinions, then give all of her hard work back to her and wash >your hands of it. I'm sure she'd like to wash her hands of you nauseating >people. Don't punish her for being brilliant and talented because you idiots >have nothing worthwhile to give. Let the world hear what a few of us already >have. Let the world fall in love with Patty Griffin and the amazing soul she >brings back to a music business void of music. > Jenna Land ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:19:38 -0400 From: Sean Subject: Re: MM: Reply from Patty's label May I suggest a response to their one word reply? A$$hole! Sean Zoeyism@aol.com wrote: > I just thought I'd let everyone on the list read this. I wrote to > Patty's label about a month ago and today I received a reply from the label. > The one word that the label wrote back appears above my letter, it pretty > much sums up the attitude of the label, and to be honest I can't beleive that > it was written. My letter was written in a whirl wind of irritation towards > the industry so I appologize if my e-mail to the company was a little too > scalding. > > $orry. > > I'm appauled at what decisions are being made about album releases at your > >record label. At the very most all that can be said about the morons running > >your company is that they've mastered the use of their opposable thumbs. If > >you don't hear radio friendly tracks on Patty Griffins, Silver Bell, does > >that mean that you need to clean out your ears? Are they compacted with the > >sludge of today's top ten, crotch grabbing, talentless teen pop stars. Do > >you really want to go down in flames after their fifteen minutes are up? If > >their is nothing releasable on Patty's album, in your incredibly limited and > >pea brained opinions, then give all of her hard work back to her and wash > >your hands of it. I'm sure she'd like to wash her hands of you nauseating > >people. Don't punish her for being brilliant and talented because you idiots > >have nothing worthwhile to give. Let the world hear what a few of us already > >have. Let the world fall in love with Patty Griffin and the amazing soul she > >brings back to a music business void of music. > > Jenna Land ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:32:05 -0400 From: "donhenn" Subject: MM: Reply from Patty's label MMers & Jenna , Not too scalding at all. Brilliant , & right on target. Strange how hard it rains now Rows and rows of big , dark clouds But I'm holding on Underneath this shroud Patty Griffin "Rain" Don $orry. Let the world fall in love with Patty Griffin and the amazing soul she >brings back to a music business void of music. > Jenna Land ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:36:35 -0700 (PDT) From: mateo Subject: MM: Back from the dead Hi, I've been away from the list for 6 months or more. Since the demise of Patty's record, Silverbell, has anyone wanted to share the advanced silverbell cd on the list? I remember some people saying they had the full length album and reviewing the songs. I'd like to have the studio version of some the Calvin College songs like Top of the World. Amanda Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:59:04 EDT From: Danalee7@aol.com Subject: MM: $orry In a message dated 8/14/01 10:37:58 AM, dreamharder2@yahoo.com writes: << I remember some people saying they had the full length album >> Somebody has the full length album??????? We probably know most of the songs from last year's concerts, but I would LOVE to hear the studio versions! How about we pass it around and donate the $ {as in $orry} directly to Patty- anyone know an address that would get it to her? I read an interview where David Lindley said he didn't mind people having his boots at all, as long as anyone getting them would send him $5. $15 would be more appropriate in this case where it should have been a CD that we would have all run out and bought the very first day it was released. Maybe there is more than one way to get her music spread around. Grass roots movement here. I hate to let songs like Top of the World and Makin' Pies get lost. Dana from Beserkeley ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:29:52 -0600 From: timothy johnstone Subject: Re: MM: Reply from Patty's label WARNING: THIS IS NOT A NICE POST. IT IS NOT MEAN SPIRITED. IT IS NOT MEANT TO OFFEND. You are surprised at the response you received? Given the tone of your letter, you are lucky you received what you got. Honestly people, you all act as though Patty and the rest of the world is owed some sort of career. Until the time that you personally are willing to put up the money required to produce, manufacture, distribute and market music you pretty much have to deal with unfortunate situations like the one Patty is in. Sometimes the whining on this list is unbelievable. Take the time to educate yourselves about how this all works before sending off ill-advised and poorly thought out letters like this. Nobody benefits from these kinds of interactions with label people. I don't agree with what Interscope did with Patty or more to the point, I'm not happy with the turn of events that led Patty to leave the label. But, this is business. And it's their money. I guess I had better go now. Zoeyism@aol.com wrote: > I just thought I'd let everyone on the list read this. I wrote to > Patty's label about a month ago and today I received a reply from the label. > The one word that the label wrote back appears above my letter, it pretty > much sums up the attitude of the label, and to be honest I can't beleive that > it was written. My letter was written in a whirl wind of irritation towards > the industry so I appologize if my e-mail to the company was a little too > scalding. > > $orry. > > I'm appauled at what decisions are being made about album releases at your > >record label. At the very most all that can be said about the morons running > >your company is that they've mastered the use of their opposable thumbs. If > >you don't hear radio friendly tracks on Patty Griffins, Silver Bell, does > >that mean that you need to clean out your ears? Are they compacted with the > >sludge of today's top ten, crotch grabbing, talentless teen pop stars. Do > >you really want to go down in flames after their fifteen minutes are up? If > >their is nothing releasable on Patty's album, in your incredibly limited and > >pea brained opinions, then give all of her hard work back to her and wash > >your hands of it. I'm sure she'd like to wash her hands of you nauseating > >people. Don't punish her for being brilliant and talented because you idiots > >have nothing worthwhile to give. Let the world hear what a few of us already > >have. Let the world fall in love with Patty Griffin and the amazing soul she > >brings back to a music business void of music. > > Jenna Land ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 21:01:57 -0500 From: "LouAnn Muhm" Subject: Re: MM: Reply from Patty's label >I'm not happy with the turn of >events that led Patty to leave the label. But, this is business. And it's their >money. Hear hear!! I can tell you that I am APPALLED (not appauled--though I enjoy it every time I get a-Pauled by another post from our Guinness-loving friend from Florida) not only at the unreasonable and hateful tone of the letter to the record company, but at the atrocious spelling and grammar. I know that not everyone is as skilled a writer as I might wish, but is it that hard to run spell check? You cannot expect to be taken seriously in a business setting if you can't present your ideas in a professional manner. Having said that, I can pretty much guarantee that there is a typo or misspelling in this post from me! My 2 cents. - --LouAnn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 22:32:33 -0400 From: "Thomas H. Kercheval" Subject: Re: MM: Reply from Patty's label > WARNING: THIS IS NOT A NICE POST. IT IS NOT MEAN SPIRITED. IT IS NOT MEANT TO > OFFEND. > > > You are surprised at the response you received? Given the tone of your letter, > you are lucky you received what you got. Honestly people, you all act as though > Patty and the rest of the world is owed some sort of career. Have you ever seen Patty live? Yeah, I'll admit it, I DO think Patty Griffin is owed "some sort of career," as ridiculous as that might sound. But at the VERY LEAST, she is "owed" the opportunity to have her record label hold up their end of the contract and release the music that they originally signed her to record. Yeah, obviously there must be loopholes in the contract she signed giving the record company the right to refuse an album that they don't deem "marketable enough." But those of us who've heard the songs that would've been on "Silver Bell" know that Patty was doing nothing different from what she did when she was initially signed; the songs, in fact, were the best she'd ever written, in the opinions of many (Not just people on this list, either. The great Buddy Miller cited "Silver Bell" as his favorite album of the year. Guess that bastard got an advance copy. But I digress). No one's suggesting that Patty be GIVEN anything. Patty IS OWED something. SHE DID HER PART! She held up her end. She worked her ass off! She wrote songs, she recorded them, she toured. And what does the record company do? Allow her to record an ENTIRE ALBUM (do you have ANY IDEA how difficult and emotionally draining that can be??) and then BURY it, not even give it a CHANCE! That is inexcusable. That is immoral. That is cruel, and that is heartless. Yeah, yeah, I know, "it's a business." How comforting. Until the time that > you personally are willing to put up the money required to produce, manufacture, > distribute and market music you pretty much have to deal with unfortunate > situations like the one Patty is in. Sometimes the whining on this list is > unbelievable. And sometimes the apathy is even more unbelievable. Whining. I love it. Listen, Patty's tunes are the types of songs that touch people at the deepest levels. They're the type of tunes that create long-term fans who will buy ANYTHING with the artist's name on it. Most people on this list will be listening to Patty for the rest of their lives. She's not the kind of artist you forget, not the kind of artist that's thought of in a "Oh, yeah, I really liked them that summer when I was a kid" way. When people, fans, are promised an album, waiting for it for as long as they've (we've) waited, only to see the rug pulled out from underneath.....well, complaining about that, venting about that, is utterly and unequivocally justifiable. And it's not just because we fans are disappointed at being denied the chance to hear her songs; it's also because it's so incredibly heartbreaking to think about what Patty must have been going through to have put so much of her life, so much of her self into recording an album and then to have it sealed up in a vault somewhere. One of the saddest things in the world is a great song that no one ever hears. And "Silver Bell" would've had a lot of great songs on it. Whining. Give me a friggin' break. >Take the time to educate yourselves about how this all works before > sending off ill-advised and poorly thought out letters like this. Nobody benefits > from these kinds of interactions with label people. Spare me. I know how it works. And that knowledge, that "education" as you put it, doesn't make the facts any less deplorable. And how was the letter written "ill-advised"? Do you think the record company, as an entity, gives a crap either way what some fan writes to them? Sounds like YOU need some education on how the business works. Do you think if she had written a carefully-worded Shakespearean sonnet to the record company that they might've decided to release Patty's album after all? The letter was merely a chance for a fan to vent some of the frustration that most of us feel about the unfortunate situation Patty's in, and at least whoever sent it knows that the frustration was heard by someone. That's about all anyone could hope for, sadly. As the reply indicated, it's all about money, that's it. They don't care about fans complaining, and insulting them, they don't care about fans praising them, they care about money, their investment. And yeah, that's their right. And yes, they obviously thought Patty wasn't going to give them a return on their investment. And how sad it is to mention "returns on investment" and Patty's music in the same sentence. >But, this is business. And it's their > money. Then they should've thought about that BEFORE they signed her. It's not like they signed Patty as a rap artist and suddenly, after the ink on the contract has dried, she wants to record a folk album. She was signed for what she is, and she was dropped for what she is. Yeah, it's the record company's "right", and yeah, it's their money. If they didn't think Patty would be a solid investment any longer, that's fine; but they should've held up their moral end of the bargain. They should've allowed her album to be released. Even if they didn't spend a penny on promotion, at least it would be out there. THAT'S what I object to, because THAT is just plain evil. Are we supposed to just accept the decision without comment like nice little lambies because "it's a business"???? The fact is, Silver Bell is not going to be released, at least not by Interscope. There won't be mass outpourings of mail on Patty's behalf. There won't be any stories about it on VH1 or in Billboard magazine. But I, for one, am at least glad that someone expressed what a lot of us feel to the "powers that be." Yeah, most likely, it's a lost cause. But, as Mr. Smith once said, they're often the only ones worth fighting for. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 22:57:29 EDT From: Mooodeee@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: Reply from Patty's label The loophole is pretty simple and up front in contracts... when a label signs with an artist to do a record, the are signed to provide a cd on a "work for hire" basis, meaning the artist is basically hired to make the record, and the label owns it because they are paying for it. All the musicians brought in to cut tracks are also on a "work for hire" basis. I'm sure there are some rare exceptions, but those contracts are extremely few and far between. > Yeah, obviously there must be loopholes in > the contract she signed giving the record company the right to refuse an > album that they don't deem "marketable enough." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 00:45:06 EDT From: Danalee7@aol.com Subject: MM: Silver Bell whining again I understand if the company does not want to invest $ releasing a Cd that they don't expect to make enough $ for them. So why don't you then do the right thing and let Patty have the rights to do those songs somewhere else and we can spend our $ on it then. Her Cd could be sold from her web site- other artists do that - and they can be sold at shows. Maybe it would be smalltime but it would still be better than nothing. I just hate to see these wonderful songs be lost. Patty is moving on to newer work and these songs may never be heard by most fans. I don't know exactly what the set list was for Silver Bell, but I guess that Little God was on it- I LOVE that song. I still remember the first time I heard it in Providence. Standing may have been on it- what a loss. Making Pies and Top of The World, maybe We Are Water. I feel like whining a lot about it. We have been waiting since June 26 of 98 since the Flaming Red CD was released. We know that Patty has dozens of wonderful songs that will never be recorded. Have you ever been to one of Patty's shows? Her fans love her- even at the Santa Rosa show last year, I noticed how the audience was so quiet for her, and I doubt that most of them knew her work. You could hear a pin drop. She had their full attention. Same with the Austin City Limits show- the other performers are excellent, but Patty was awesome. Why would the company want to hold her back? I want the Cd for myself, but even more, I want other people to experience Patty's music and I am rooting for her to somehow get over this hurdle- and I hope the songs get out. Dana in Beserkeley ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V5 #202 *********************************