From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V5 #71 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.quackquack.net/pattyg * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com * then click "tour" and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V4 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Wednesday, March 21 2001 Volume 05 : Number 071 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: Silver Bell and the Record Company [Robin K Hall ] MM: Re:far fetched? [Mark_Fitzgerald@keybank.com] MM: Pauls a big dickhead ["Paul Russell" ] Re: MM: Pauls a big dickhead [Nikki Wheeler ] MM: RE: Pauls a big dickhead ["Jason and Jennifer Burton" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:52:28 -0800 From: Robin K Hall Subject: MM: Silver Bell and the Record Company If the rumor is true, then it's a sad commentary on the record business. If Interscope won't release Silver Bell because it doesn't sound radio ready, that's pathetic. On the other hand, remember that the original version (the "electric" version) of "Living With Ghosts" was shot down by A&M. Robin Hall ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 03:34:21 -0500 From: Nikki Wheeler Subject: Re: MM: The album everyone's looking for a radio hit because radio hits sell cds. cds rake in the money. money is what makes the music industry go round whether we like it or not. it's a sad reality really... i don't know about anybody else, but for me, it seems like so many good artists work have been tainted because their record label doesn't like what they've done and are afraid it won't sell. it makes me absolutely sick. - -------------------------- nikki http://nikki.vende.org/ nikki@vende.org dance798@chi.tds.net icq: 1762290 aol im: angelnikkd napster: nikkiana msn messanger: nikkianaofthedark@hotmail.com - -------------------------- "go back and make it real, maybe i'll still be standing here." - - the mudhens, "real" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 07:06:31 -0500 From: Mark_Fitzgerald@keybank.com Subject: MM: Re:far fetched? It's not as far fetched as it would seem. I just don't know if her fan base is large enough to pull it off. In a completely different genre, there's this band I've liked for a long time called Marillion. They had a minor hit in the 80's, but have a fairly large rabid fan base, even though they can't get any airtime. A few years back, the fans raised close to 60 grand without the band's involvement, and that cash was enough to allow a limited tour of the US. (The band is from the UK) So just recently, they sent out an e-mail to their list, asking how many would be willing to pony up $22 in advance to buy a record that wasn't recorded yet. Over 95 percent said "hell, yes!" so they did it. They actually financed the recording of the record themselves, and because there was no recoupable cost to the record company, they got distribution through Epic - but more importantly, they didn't have to sign away rights to the recording or to their songs. Since in Patty's case the record is already done and on the shelf, it's not quite the same, but it does show how the industry is changing. Death to the middleman! :) Sender: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Perhaps this in incredibly far-fetched, and perhaps I have had waaaaaay too much wine, and I have developed too much enthusiasim in my wonderful trust in the unheard "SILVER BELL" ....but regarding this statement to a previous email: The question is, what label will be willing to cough up the rental? They'd have to believe in the record. Who do YOU think believes in this record? Do YOU? I do. I think we ALL believe in Patty's work...Do you remember the first song you heard written or sung by her? Didn't it make you kinda get goose bumps? Didn't it make you want to hear every song ever sung by her? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:46:48 -0000 From: "Paul Russell" Subject: MM: Pauls a big dickhead Hi Everyone. Okay. Now I'm not one to be on the side of the recording industry. And I think Patty Griffin's latest CD tabling is stupid. But I do understand the aspect of business, and it's not just a case of record companies always being forces of evil, and musicians always being good little angels. The record company isn't in business for humanitarian purposes. And they aren't in business to screw people over. I'm not saying they don't screw people over, but that's not why they're in business. They're in business to make money. When jobs change and new people step in, new ideas take over. Example: Let's say Pig A likes Johnny Bravo's singing career and signs him. Johnny Bravo sings a few songs on a CD, but Pig A sends him back a few times to re-record things he doesn't like. Well, Pig A is putting his pig-ass butt on the line with all this company money, so he definitely wants lots of incoming cashola with Johnny Bravo's CD. Then, while Johnny Bravo is going back to the studio a few times, 'ol Pig A gets canned (heh heh, a canned ham?) or promoted or moved to another department or whatever. Pig B takes over and actually might like the potential singing career of Johnny Bravo too, but not as much as Pig A did. Actually, he probably liked the Brady Six much better. Then, during a meeting with some bean counters, Pig B comes to see that a lot of cash is being spent on Johnny Bravo's revisions (which isn't even Johnny's fault, remember Pig A?) and does some research on their deal with Johnny Bravo. After smoking some crack and getting it on with the prostitutes, Pig B comes to the conclusion that unless some serious re-work is done on the CD, Johnny Bravo ain't gonna make Casey Kasem's top 10 anytime. To add to the fire, Pig B looks at all the newspaper reviews of Johnny Bravo when he opened for Metallica and didn't see many "rave reviews." So, he tables the deal, drops Johnny, rents/sells Johnny, or any other of the options. Pig B is looking out for the company...even in his glossy-eyed kind of way. What might be the consequences of going ahead and releasing Johnny Bravo? Hmmmmm. Let me put it in another way...New Coke. THAT's what Pig B is scared of. The exec dude promoting that flop is gone gone gone. And this is just the "honest" side of the recording industry...one aspect of "the biz." I'm not even going to add the "evil" crap about them "making" bands and having them being "sold" over the airwaves. And I'm not mentioning it because my Johnny Bravo story would be too much like Dynasty or some other Aaron Spelling show....and I would digress... and end up marrying Heather Locklear after we plotted to kill her fiance' because he's only interested in the family's oil assets. That bastard, why can't he just get into a plane crash? Or...maybe he could...hmmmmm. So, these record conglomerates are looking after their money investments so they can meet, or exceed, their predicted quarter earnings. It's always nice to please the stockholders. Another way to look at it (and probably an unpopular way in this list) would be that there's more musicians each day trying to get the record companies to finance their successes and failures so they can become big stars. And it's not like the record companies can't afford it, it's that they are trying to bring in as much profit as possible, like any other company (why do you think banks don't just loan out all their money to everyone? Or how about me then, huh? Why can't they just loan me money? I'm not a bad person. I just want a freaking loan. Is that too much to ask for? C'mon you sons of bitches. Give me the freaking money already. oops digressing.). What's sad about it is that this has nothing to do with talent, but who you know...and so starts the circle again. And it's not the circle of life, either. Well, I'm outta here. I need to go on a business trip. Well, not all business, there will be plenty of drinking too (I'm not letting my liver have that pansy-ass rest it keeps whining about). It just sucks that I had a business trip during spring break. I'll be drinking my Patty Griffin sorrows away while listening to Patty Griffin, though. I really hope they change their minds and release it, and I like the alternate solutions a few people are coming up with. But I just felt the conversation might start going in the way of "if you drop Patty Griffin, then you suck!" Pretty soon, they might form football teams...and who knows? Interslow might recruit Ditka and win the game. Of course, Ms. Griffin could recruit Ditka and then that game would just be over. There wouldn't even be a need to keep score. Sorry if I offended. Please point out my inconsistencies. Time to start drinking like a three dollar whore!! Shagadelic Baybee, yeah! Paul *************************** * Everything I need out * * of life I've learned * * from pornos. * * -- me (Paul Russell)* * * *************************** _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:16:50 -0500 From: Nikki Wheeler Subject: Re: MM: Pauls a big dickhead First, I must say, No, Paul's NOT a big dickhead. Onto the message... anyway, I think what Paul said pretty much sums it up. It's about making money. I think it's sicking really. But unfortunately, money is what makes the world go round. Money's what puts food on our tables, clothes on our backs, the roof over our heads, and any other item you may or may not need. (Go through your house sometime and look at all the things that you could be living without... it's frightening really). If you believe in any sort of religion that has a distinction between good and evil (like God and Satan)... your Satan like creature certainly found a wonderful tool to motivate people to do his evil bidding. Okay, so this message has been more about money than anything else... but i feel better now. - -------------------------- nikki http://nikki.vende.org/ nikki@vende.org dance798@chi.tds.net icq: 1762290 aol im: angelnikkd napster: nikkiana msn messanger: nikkianaofthedark@hotmail.com - -------------------------- "go back and make it real, maybe i'll still be standing here." - - the mudhens, "real" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:19:31 -0600 From: "Jason and Jennifer Burton" Subject: MM: RE: Pauls a big dickhead I always new there was an unreleased Johnny Bravo album! Damn I wish I could get my hands on it! Jason The Single Collector WWW.SINGLECOLLECTOR.COM Hard to find CD Singles, Promos, Imports, and Vinyl - -----Original Message----- From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org [mailto:owner-mad-mission@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Paul Russell Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 11:47 AM To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: Pauls a big dickhead Hi Everyone. Okay. Now I'm not one to be on the side of the recording industry. And I think Patty Griffin's latest CD tabling is stupid. But I do understand the aspect of business, and it's not just a case of record companies always being forces of evil, and musicians always being good little angels. The record company isn't in business for humanitarian purposes. And they aren't in business to screw people over. I'm not saying they don't screw people over, but that's not why they're in business. They're in business to make money. When jobs change and new people step in, new ideas take over. Example: Let's say Pig A likes Johnny Bravo's singing career and signs him. Johnny Bravo sings a few songs on a CD, but Pig A sends him back a few times to re-record things he doesn't like. Well, Pig A is putting his pig-ass butt on the line with all this company money, so he definitely wants lots of incoming cashola with Johnny Bravo's CD. Then, while Johnny Bravo is going back to the studio a few times, 'ol Pig A gets canned (heh heh, a canned ham?) or promoted or moved to another department or whatever. Pig B takes over and actually might like the potential singing career of Johnny Bravo too, but not as much as Pig A did. Actually, he probably liked the Brady Six much better. Then, during a meeting with some bean counters, Pig B comes to see that a lot of cash is being spent on Johnny Bravo's revisions (which isn't even Johnny's fault, remember Pig A?) and does some research on their deal with Johnny Bravo. After smoking some crack and getting it on with the prostitutes, Pig B comes to the conclusion that unless some serious re-work is done on the CD, Johnny Bravo ain't gonna make Casey Kasem's top 10 anytime. To add to the fire, Pig B looks at all the newspaper reviews of Johnny Bravo when he opened for Metallica and didn't see many "rave reviews." So, he tables the deal, drops Johnny, rents/sells Johnny, or any other of the options. Pig B is looking out for the company...even in his glossy-eyed kind of way. What might be the consequences of going ahead and releasing Johnny Bravo? Hmmmmm. Let me put it in another way...New Coke. THAT's what Pig B is scared of. The exec dude promoting that flop is gone gone gone. And this is just the "honest" side of the recording industry...one aspect of "the biz." I'm not even going to add the "evil" crap about them "making" bands and having them being "sold" over the airwaves. And I'm not mentioning it because my Johnny Bravo story would be too much like Dynasty or some other Aaron Spelling show....and I would digress... and end up marrying Heather Locklear after we plotted to kill her fiance' because he's only interested in the family's oil assets. That bastard, why can't he just get into a plane crash? Or...maybe he could...hmmmmm. So, these record conglomerates are looking after their money investments so they can meet, or exceed, their predicted quarter earnings. It's always nice to please the stockholders. Another way to look at it (and probably an unpopular way in this list) would be that there's more musicians each day trying to get the record companies to finance their successes and failures so they can become big stars. And it's not like the record companies can't afford it, it's that they are trying to bring in as much profit as possible, like any other company (why do you think banks don't just loan out all their money to everyone? Or how about me then, huh? Why can't they just loan me money? I'm not a bad person. I just want a freaking loan. Is that too much to ask for? C'mon you sons of bitches. Give me the freaking money already. oops digressing.). What's sad about it is that this has nothing to do with talent, but who you know...and so starts the circle again. And it's not the circle of life, either. Well, I'm outta here. I need to go on a business trip. Well, not all business, there will be plenty of drinking too (I'm not letting my liver have that pansy-ass rest it keeps whining about). It just sucks that I had a business trip during spring break. I'll be drinking my Patty Griffin sorrows away while listening to Patty Griffin, though. I really hope they change their minds and release it, and I like the alternate solutions a few people are coming up with. But I just felt the conversation might start going in the way of "if you drop Patty Griffin, then you suck!" Pretty soon, they might form football teams...and who knows? Interslow might recruit Ditka and win the game. Of course, Ms. Griffin could recruit Ditka and then that game would just be over. There wouldn't even be a need to keep score. Sorry if I offended. Please point out my inconsistencies. Time to start drinking like a three dollar whore!! Shagadelic Baybee, yeah! Paul *************************** * Everything I need out * * of life I've learned * * from pornos. * * -- me (Paul Russell)* * * *************************** _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:52:28 -0800 From: Robin K Hall Subject: MM: Silver Bell and the Record Company If the rumor is true, then it's a sad commentary on the record business. If Interscope won't release Silver Bell because it doesn't sound radio ready, that's pathetic. On the other hand, remember that the original version (the "electric" version) of "Living With Ghosts" was shot down by A&M. Robin Hall ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:42:16 -0400 From: David Lewis Subject: Re: MM: The album I know I will probably not be the most popular guy for saying so, but I personally believe that drowning out "Patty" is precisely what happened on Flaming Red. Not on all tracks... but certainly on many of them. After hearing the title track from "Silver Bell", it sounds like this new CD will be no different or maybe even be more over the top and all over the map. Don't get me wrong. Patty has the power to send chills through my whole body. She's an incredible talent... incredible! I personally have traveled many hundreds of miles to see her play numerous times. But she is, I think, a singer songwriter at her core and while I'm TOTALLY for her doing the pop/rock thing (and I really mean that), I'm not sure she's really found her "pop/rock" voice just yet. Maybe she just hasn't worked with the right people yet... the people who can take her stunningly songs and build upon them and support them rather than obscure them and try to turn them into a Sheryl Crow tune (no offence to Sheryl... who I also love). I guess what I'm driving at is, let's not just assume that the record company is being the bad guy and that Patty and her band/arrangers and producer etc. can do no wrong (ok, well maybe Patty can do no wrong... but I'm not sure about the rest :). The fact is, A&M probably never made a cent off Flaming Red or LWG but they keep her on and support her because she it such a phenomenal talent and is sure to "hit" at some point. Groups like the Backstreet Boys and Britney Speirs are what allow record companies to support and nurture these lesser known artists (so Britney is good for something after all :). But they can only support unprofitable artists for so long. It is, in the end, a business after all. I guess what I'm getting at is, as someone else suggested, it may simply be the case that "Silver Bell" is not as good as it could be. Since I don't think any of us have had the advantage of having heard the album (aside from the 2 tracks on the promo and the odd leaked MP3), how do we know that not to be the case? Personally, I'm not afraid to say that I think the title track is over the top and doesn't really suit the song. So maybe rethinking the album will be a good thing in the long run not only for the record company, but also for us, the fans and Patty! Then again, the album could be brilliant as is and the record company really could be the bad guys... totally possible!! :) I just think that given what was produced for Flaming Red and the few tracks we have heard from "Silver Bell", it is possible that Silver Bell is not a good as it could be. And with Patty's songs as the starting point, "Silver Bell" should be... and fully deserves to be... utterly wonderful! on 3/20/01 10:29 PM, Johnny U at johnyoutrip@yahoo.com wrote: > I liked Flaming Red, despite it's "pop" sound. While I don't mind > tweaking a product, I hope that songs such as Shells or Top of the > World keep their natural form. Why is everyone looking for a radio hit > anyway? Tracy Chapman, Tori Amos and Natalie Merchant are some of the > best in music because they do what is right for them and don't need to > sell their souls to TRL. I hope the record company doesn't end up > drowning the "Patty" out of her own album ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V5 #71 ********************************