From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V4 #55 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.quackquack.net/patttyg * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com * then click "tour" and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V4 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Monday, February 21 2000 Volume 04 : Number 055 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: tonite's ACL [Mooodeee@aol.com] MM: Call for Patty Setlists [Amy Suzanne Butler ] MM: Re: Popularity [Rongrittz@aol.com] Re: MM: Re: Popularity [BLUEHEN@webtv.net] MM: More on popularity. [Rongrittz@aol.com] Re: MM: More on popularity. [hooligan ] Re: MM: More on popularity. [Rongrittz@aol.com] MM: Re: More on popularity. ["Victoria Chenevey" ] Re: MM: Re: Patty's popularity ["C. Minter" ] MM: popularity again [EveryLittleBit@aol.com] MM: The Mad-Mission [Femboty2k@aol.com] Re: MM: Re: Patty's popularity [Zelly72@aol.com] Re: MM: Re: Patty's popularity ["*~Sarah~*" ] MM: Re: popularity again ["*~Sarah~*" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 02:46:24 EST From: Mooodeee@aol.com Subject: MM: tonite's ACL Did anybody on the list go? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:32:12 -0500 (EST) From: Amy Suzanne Butler Subject: MM: Call for Patty Setlists Hi everybody. I had a look at the setlist archive Jen mentioned earlier this month, and it's pretty nice (http://use.dhs.org/). I contacted the guy that runs it and he'd be glad to have Patty's setlists on it -- gave me all the info. Sooo, if anyone has setlists for any of Patty's shows, send them to me (with date and locale, of course) and I'll work on getting them up on the USE Website. Take care! Amy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:18:49 EST From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: MM: Re: Popularity << Most people I know have no idea who Patty is or confuse her with Nancy Griffin. >> More popularly known by her ACTUAL name, Nanci Griffith. RG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 19:18:34 -0500 (EST) From: BLUEHEN@webtv.net Subject: Re: MM: Re: Popularity I, for one, really admire the path Patty's career has taken so far. She's highly respected among her peers as not only a great voice and performer, but as a magnificent songwriter. She has the unique qualities that will attract ears to her for a long time to come because she consistantly has something of interest to say in such a beautiful way. She carries the torch of artist in the only way she is able~~~her way! ~Patty~ http://pattyblee.cjb.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:59:59 EST From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: MM: More on popularity. >> How many of us are going to call Patty a sellout if she starts selling millions of records? I have never been someone to do that, but I know that it's common. . . . Simply because an artist sells oodles of albums does NOT mean that he/she is not worthy of our respect and admiration. I think that if Patty starts selling lots of records and playing larger venues, we should just be happy that we were able to see her "back when." << Boy, success is a double-edged sword, isn't it? I recall Shawn Colvin going through this exact same dilemma. I used to see her in Greenwich Village coffeehouses before she'd even released her first CD, "Steady On." Yeah, she had this little demo tape out which she'd sell at her shows -- the same demo tape that was later released as the "Live '88" CD -- but that was about all. But once she won her Grammy -- with music that was not that far removed from that on her first CD -- the cries of "sellout!" ran rampant. We want our artists to be successful enough that they can afford to hire better producers and better musicians, to be able to fly to gigs instead of packing all their gear into a van, to be able to stay at nicer hotels so they can be rested and comfortable and therefore put on better shows, but God forbid they get TOO successful. I mean -- horror of horrors -- we might actually have to pay a little more for a concert ticket . . . or sit a little farther back in the concert hall . . . or accept the fact that she might not be able to come out for a "meet and greet" after every show. Come on . . . do we want what's best for Patty, or what's best for US? I don't think selling millions of CDs means selling out. If you make sweeping changes in your style, or your values, in order to reach more people, then yeah, MAYBE you're selling out. Heck, in many respects, the music on "Flaming Red" was much more different from that on "Living With Ghosts" than the difference between Shawn's first CD and her Grammy-winning "A Few Small Repairs." Yet did we cry that Patty was selling out when she walked away from the stripped-down sound of "LWG" and filled "Flaming Red" with almost every genre of music known to rock, from punk to ballads to country to torch songs to straight-ahead rock and roll? Or now that "Blue Sky" is being used on a TV commercial . . . is that selling out? There seems to be this belief that "popular" and "good" cannot co-exist. Me, I think they can get along just fine. RG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 19:59:37 -0500 From: hooligan Subject: Re: MM: More on popularity. on 2/21/00 5:59 PM, Rongrittz@aol.com at Rongrittz@aol.com wrote: >>> How many of us are going to call Patty a sellout if she starts selling > millions of records? I have never been someone to do that, but I know that > it's common. . . . Simply because an artist sells oodles of albums does NOT > mean that he/she is not worthy of our respect and admiration. I think that > if Patty starts selling lots of records and playing larger venues, we should > just be happy that we were able to see her "back when." << > > Boy, success is a double-edged sword, isn't it? I recall Shawn Colvin going > through this exact same dilemma. I used to see her in Greenwich Village > coffeehouses before she'd even released her first CD, "Steady On." Yeah, she > had this little demo tape out which she'd sell at her shows -- the same demo > tape that was later released as the "Live '88" CD -- but that was about all. > > But once she won her Grammy -- with music that was not that far removed from > that on her first CD -- the cries of "sellout!" ran rampant. um, didn't Colvin also win a Grammy for Steady On ?? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 20:44:46 EST From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: More on popularity. << um, didn't Colvin also win a Grammy for Steady On ?? >> Actually, yes, for Best Contemporary Folk Recording . . . but it wasn't until she won the Grammy for both Record and Song of the Year (for "Sunny Came Home") that she got slapped with the "sell out" label. RG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:39:20 -0800 From: "Victoria Chenevey" Subject: MM: Re: More on popularity. right on, rg! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 20:56:51 -0600 From: "C. Minter" Subject: Re: MM: Re: Patty's popularity "My all-time favorite is Tori Amos and i know > why she isn't played on the radio (except for a few choice songs) and i like > it better that way. I don't think i could take it if Tori had a following > like the Backstreet Boys. Her following is certainly large and dedicated, > but we are a different kind of breed. We are Ears With Feet. And I believe > that Patty would fall under this same category." Yikes! "Large and dedicated," yes. "Different kind of breed," I'm not so sure. All of my illusions regarding Tori fans were shattered a couple of years ago during the Choirgirl tour. I have never encountered a group of people more immature, rude, and inconsiderate in my entire life. My experiences at a couple of Tori concerts were so horrible that I questioned my reasons for loving her music (even though SHE had nothing to do with what I saw amongst the masses). I've seen plenty of idiots at Patty concerts, too. My first Patty concert came complete with some drunk guy up front consistently shouting, "ONE BIG LOVE!" while Patty was trying to make small talk. Needless to say, she left the venue as quickly as possible. Whether you're playing a 100 seat venue or a stadium, assholes NEVER disappear. All it takes is a couple of listens to any Tori Amos bootleg and you'll understand why she stopped singing "Me & a Gun" at her concerts. -Cristina ********************************************** "We love you very much. Even if you were Jeffrey Dahmer we would still love you." - "Flirting With Disaster" ********************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:13:19 EST From: EveryLittleBit@aol.com Subject: MM: popularity again I applaud all the optimism being spouted here- the idea that being hugely popular would be GOOD for Patty, that she wouldn't change, that her music wouldn't change, that her relationship with the fans wouldn't change. However, I don't believe one iota of it. Label it pessimism, go ahead. I like her just the way she is, right now. If she gets popular (which I doubt, because I don't think she's promoted correctly AND I don't think she appeals to a mainstream audience), things will change. Everyone talks about how change is good. I agree. But my devotion to Patty right now does not mean that I will be a fan for life, regardless of how her music changes in the future. I used to love Tori Amos. I still respect and admire her, but I no longer enjoy her new music, and I do not buy her new albums. The same goes with other artists. Fans get upset because they feel betrayed; I don't think that they understand they are under no obligation to continue being a fan. If things change, stop listening to the music- at least the new stuff. I can say that I would like it if Patty didn't change, not because I'll bitch for years and years if she DOES change, but because I'll just admit I no longer like the music she's coming out with, but I enjoy the old stuff. It's entirely permissible. And being a fan does not mean you HAVE to be a fan for the rest of your life. As music changes, your taste in musicians can also change. Woah, that was fun. So what am I saying? I do not want Patty to change, because I enjoy the type of music she is making right now. Maybe a change will be good; maybe I won't like whatever she changes to. But that's ok. A lot of people here say she won't change; it's a nice fantasy but I highly doubt it. Change is inevitable, popular or not. I like it all the way it is now. Is this selfish? No, because 1) I have no control over Patty, my opinion doesn't matter to her career, and 2) I have the right to like music the way I like it. Some people enjoy huge, sold-out concerts. I do not. I have a right to say I don't want to see Patty in a stadium. I think the novelty would wear off pretty quick. I also think she'd hate it, but hey, I don't actually KNOW the woman. Sorry about the babbling. Thanks for reading this far- I know if I'd recieved this letter, I probably would have just skimmed it and then deleted it :) Rachel :D ************************************************** * There's no getting out of your own way...* * -Patty Griffin * * The Patty Griffin Lyrics Archive * ************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:16:57 EST From: Femboty2k@aol.com Subject: MM: The Mad-Mission Mad-missioners, don't ya just love giving your opinion? don't ya just hate it when someone disagrees with ya? don't ya just love it when people try to act like what you're saying is not important, but still comment? don't ya just love the mad-mission? we're all mad! thanks all - lost a friend to drunk driving this weekend - believe it or not reading all this stuff helps keep my mind occupied. Take care - don't drink and drive - and if someone says they're okay to drive and you know they're not, take their keys and call the cops! Tina ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 23:34:39 EST From: Zelly72@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: Re: Patty's popularity God, that is so true (about Tori). I used to go to see her every time she came around. I even met her at a small record store in the city, and then she got huge and her fans just got stupid. I saw her for the last time during her Under the Pink tour. I never went back to see her because I had never encountered such rude Tori fans in my life. At some concerts, it's just expected. Big arenas, outdoor concerts, but with Tori it always seemed different no matter where she played. The audience actually LISTENED. Then, like Christina said, they just got rude. Hopefully, there will be enough of us around when Patty gets big to influence the rude ones and encourage them to listen. - -Terri "And if we can't change, we can't change, but maybe we can mend our ways. Back to the old push and pull, back to the sweet yesterdays." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 23:43:35 -0500 From: "*~Sarah~*" Subject: Re: MM: Re: Patty's popularity ***Warning: more Tori Amos content than Patty content*** > Yikes! "Large and dedicated," yes. "Different kind of breed," I'm not so > sure. I am. But when i say that, I don't mean 100% every tori fan. You couldn't say that about anyone's fans. I mean specific ones - the ones that give her the reason to call her fans "ears with feet" instead of "fans." Tori has said "the people that come to my shows are different kinds of creatures" but she has also talked about the "drunk assholes" of whom she's told to fuck off plenty of times. > All of my illusions regarding Tori fans were shattered a couple of > years ago during the Choirgirl tour. I have never encountered a group of > people more immature, rude, and inconsiderate in my entire life. and that is really sad. i understand that some bad seeds can ruin it for the whole bunch, but i have to say that, on a whole, those people are not the kinds of "ears with feet" i was talking about. and as a tori fan from way back and having been to many shows in different states since 1995 and with many bootlegs of live shows, i can assure you - the audience has not always been that way. which pretty much shows what i was trying to say about the intimacy of lesser-known artists. i was in NO WAY trying to say that i do not want Patty or anyone to become more popular or that i wouldn't want the joy that her music gives me not to be spread to everyone! I was just saying how once an artist *does* become more popular, they inevitably attract more people that aren't as respectful or perhaps don't admire the talent as much as others. This can be said for any artist.....and i just think it's unfortunate that we have to endure the people who only decide to like someone because it's the top 10 hit on the radio and who are the assholes at the concerts. it isn't unfortunate when someone sells a lot of records and is really successful. that is the joyous part! > Whether you're playing a 100 seat venue or a stadium, assholes NEVER disappear. exactly. i couldn't agree more. > All it takes is a couple of listens to any Tori Amos bootleg and you'll > understand why she stopped singing "Me & a Gun" at her concerts. on the contrary. there are many reason she stopped singing "Me & a Gun" at her shows, i'm sure one of them being the immaturity of the audience....but probably many more reasons that we may never realize. however, there are a lot of bootlegs where the audience is spectacular! "Swapping Tongues" for instance, an expensive hard to find boot, 2 cds that showcase an audiences incredible ability to listen in awe. With the exception of some fight that ensued in the balcony, the entire 2 cd set is crisp and clear and even the clapping is controlled. And it all was taped under the seat of an audience member! It has only been since the release of "Spark" on the radio and the increasing popularity of that song as well as "Jackie's Strength" (as much as tori's music can be 'popular' on the radio) that i have witnessed the audience's growing immaturity and rudeness - so....my point about the effect of popularity on the audience has been made. 'nuff said. hahaah...i'm sure i've bored you all to tears with my tori rant on a patty list. haha...sorry! :) but hey, we talked about shawn colvin too! hee hee agreeing to disagree on the tori stuff, :) Sarah ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* "If a guy doesn't ask me to the prom, I always have my left hand." - -Tori Amos - -JJJ Radio (Australia), 11/3/99 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 23:50:33 -0500 From: "*~Sarah~*" Subject: MM: Re: popularity again > Some people enjoy huge, sold-out concerts. I do not. I have a right > to say I don't want to see Patty in a stadium. I think the novelty would > wear off pretty quick. i think it would wear off quick as well. That is what i meant when i had said that i love to see artists in those small little clubs where just a small crowd can fit. I don't want to see them in that kind of venue because i don't want them to be successful. I don't wish any hinderance on anyone's career, least of all someone i admire so much like Patty. I just meant, for my own selfish reasons, i'd be perfectly happy watching Patty from a little club called The Ark or The Blind Pig here in Ann Arbor, MI. for the rest of her career! But whatever path she takes, i'm glad for her and, like rachel said, we'll see if the changes are ones that I'll follow or if i'll just cling to the old stuff. I hope that i will love any change she brings our way..... :) Sarah ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V4 #55 ********************************